Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Ott]

Copy with a different lighting. Here the (horizontal) "laid lines" are better visible.

These lines were already used by the Chinese, who made paper long before the Arabs adopted their methods.

[Ott]

On this paper (Latin-Arabic manuscript, dated before 1195 CE, from Toledo Spain), the laid lines are also clearly visible (here vertical).

Arab paper making:

Source for both images: http://www.islamicmanuscripts.info/files/Yerevan-Codicology-2-paper-quires-2013.pdf

[Knul]

Anyway, both your attempts to claim that OLB containts words/ names that would be too modern have failed (as all earlier ones).

I can give you a list of modern mid 19th c. words and expressions in the OLB like todalesta (ten laatste), nittomin (niettemin) dahwila (dewijl), afsken (ofschoon), etc.

[Ott]

... a list of modern mid 19th c. words and expressions in the OLB...

You believe they are modern mid 19th., but you are not sure.

I could refute all of them again, as has been done over and over so far, with all earlier examples.

Where did these ´modern´ expressions (in written form) come from?

From spoken language, which is much older.

[NO-ID-EA]

It does happen though that ancient words , later come back in to fashion , after not having been used for centuries, and people thinking they are new words.

take for instance Chav, short for Chavvy , Pucca , Pikey, all of which are very old words that no one had used , or heard for years , until large numbers of Irish travellers (gypsies or romanies ) migrated to England relatively recently , and these words re-entered popular useage.

many people especially youngsters who use them mostly as street words , think they are new words , without knowing where they came from .

[Ott]

I can give you a list of modern mid 19th c. words and expressions in the OLB like

todalesta (ten laatste),

nittomin (niettemin)

dahwila (dewijl),

afsken (ofschoon), etc.

If these were some of your best examples, then you have (once more) made yourself implausible.

TO THA LESTA

TO THÀT LESTA

TO LESTA

TO LONGE LESTA

TO LESTEN

translation: (litterally:) "to (the) (long) last" (finally, at the end)

"van allen andren sticken dannof dat scepenen sullen sijn ghesuoren siene moeghen nemen war .iij. dinghedaghe vorste ende ne deliuererse hem niet binden iiij dingdaghe jof ten laetsten binder maent die claghe sal bliuen in sgrauen handen om te iugirne jof te doen iugirne biden goenen die die graue sal setten in sine stede dat te doene" Corp.I p. 564, r. 21-25, Brugge, West-Vlaanderen, 1281

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...emmodern=laatst

letist

Modern lemma: laatst

Oudste attestatie: 901-1000

Etymologie: Cognaten: Oudfries lest, last.

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...emmodern=laatst

===

NAVT TO MIN (not the less, anyway)

niettemin

Oudste attestatie: Limburg, 1240

Aangetroffen spelling: nit min, niet te min

nichil : nit / nichilum : niwet / nichilominus : nogtanne, nit+min Bern. p. 258, r. 24-26, Limburg, 1240

Moses hiet met ghewelde. Dats (t.w. het manna) niemen ouer nacht ne helde. Dies ne lietsi (t.w. de Israëlieten) niet+te+min. Des anders daghes vonder sire+in. Den worm ende dat brod verrod. (Mozes drong er met kracht op aan dat niemand het de nacht over zou bewaren. Dat deden ze echter toch. De andere dag vonden ze er wormen in en het brood (was) bedorven.) Rijmb. p. 106, r. 20-24, West-Vlaanderen, 1285

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...odern=niettemin

===

THAWILA

THAWIL

Translation: while (dutch: terwijl)

DEWILE

Varianten: diewile

Modern lemma: dewijl/de-wijl

(diewile), bijw. uitdr. Onderwijl. — Met toevoeging van de relat. partikel dat (die ook weggelaten wordt), voegw. Terwijl. Vgl. derwilen.

–Onderwijl.

Dewyle dat Mer Jan van Crouwy up de marct stille hielt .., soe trocken de Heynuwiers van huuzen te huuyzen, Cron. v. Vlaend. 2, 131, Vlaanderen, 1467-1480.

Dewyle he dat wyff hevet, soe compt he noch anderwarff byder eersten, unde se brenget voert ein kint, Pro Excol. 6, 703.

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...emmodern=dewijl

Many more examples from the 13th and 14th century here (diewile, diewyl):

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...db=MNW&id=06638

===

AFSKÉN (although)

ofschoon vw. ‘hoewel, ook al’

Vnnl. of ghy schoon veyst, soo antwoort doch dat Griecx spreecwoort voor v ‘ook al ontkent u, toch antwoordt het Griekse spreekwoord voor u’ [1560; WNT waterkruik], of schoon een vluchtigh lustgen ghevoeldt werdt ... daer op volght stracx een gheduerighe smerte ‘hoewel een voorbijgaand genoegen wordt ervaren, volgt daarop weldra een altijddurende smart’ [ca. 1570; WNT oermeeren]; nnl. ofschoon ... niet min ‘hoewel, ... niettemin’ [ca. 1615; WNT verandering].

http://www.etymologi...fwoord/ofschoon

Edited December 4, 2013 by gestur

[Knul]

If these were some of your best examples, then you have (once more) made yourself implausible.

TO THA LESTA

TO THÀT LESTA

TO LESTA

TO LONGE LESTA

TO LESTEN

translation: (litterally:) "to (the) (long) last" (finally, at the end)

"van allen andren sticken dannof dat scepenen sullen sijn ghesuoren siene moeghen nemen war .iij. dinghedaghe vorste ende ne deliuererse hem niet binden iiij dingdaghe jof ten laetsten binder maent die claghe sal bliuen in sgrauen handen om te iugirne jof te doen iugirne biden goenen die die graue sal setten in sine stede dat te doene" Corp.I p. 564, r. 21-25, Brugge, West-Vlaanderen, 1281

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...emmodern=laatst

letist

Modern lemma: laatst

Oudste attestatie: 901-1000

Etymologie: Cognaten: Oudfries lest, last.

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...emmodern=laatst

===

Just give me a single mediëval (1256) text, where occur all these and more examples in the same spelling as they do in the OLB. I am not impressed by your analysis as we all know that words have a long history.

[Ott]

Just give me a single mediëval (1256) text, where occur all these and more examples in the same spelling as they do in the OLB.

Why should they be in the same spelling?

And if there would be no other text available, would that prove the word did not exist?

[keithisco]

Lots of the examples being shown here are clearly mediaeval Spanish or Mediaeval Dutch. I can make sense of both of them, but as I cannot be arsed to troll through 300+ pages in this thread then I suggest that the thread be broken down into linguistics, historicity (references to contemporary life) and to flora / fauna.

This thread has become impossible to contribute to because of the sheer size.

[Abramelin]

Anyway, both your attempts to claim that OLB containts words/ names that would be too modern have failed (as all earlier ones).

You still haven't answered my last 'attempt'.

And you never were able to explain why a 16th century word like "BEDRUM" (bedroom) shows up in a document purported te be dating from 600 BCE.

[Knul]

Why should they be in the same spelling?

And if there would be no other text available, would that prove the word did not exist?

From the spelling you could prove the century and place as is done with mediaeval texts. If there is nothing, you can't prove anything.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Knul

[Abramelin]

Lots of the examples being shown here are clearly mediaeval Spanish or Mediaeval Dutch. I can make sense of both of them, but as I cannot be arsed to troll through 300+ pages in this thread then I suggest that the thread be broken down into linguistics, historicity (references to contemporary life) and to flora / fauna.

This thread has become impossible to contribute to because of the sheer size.

300+ pages?? You mean 1000+ pages; that's including part -1-.

And if you do contribute, and add something we discussed before, no doubt someone (like me) will post a link to where we did discuss it before.

But as long as you don't post a link to a Wiki page, you are fairly safe, lol.

Yes, recently someone posted a link to a Wiki page about the OLB, assuming that none of us would have come up with that brilliant idea in 4 years time.

.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Abramelin

[Knul]

To understand the religious contents of the OLB one should read:

Godsdienstig Huisboek voor Israeliten, vrij bewerkt door S. Susan naar het Hoogduitsch door Joseph Johlson (1773/7-1851), Nijmegen, Haspels, 1839.

s. http://books.google....AAJ&redir_esc=y ;

The OLB contains literal citations from this book.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Knul

[Ott]

Lots of the examples being shown here are clearly mediaeval Spanish or Mediaeval Dutch. I can make sense of both of them, but as I cannot be arsed to troll through 300+ pages in this thread then I suggest that the thread be broken down into linguistics, historicity (references to contemporary life) and to flora / fauna.

This thread has become impossible to contribute to because of the sheer size.

Welcome to the thread, Keithisco.

Interesting that you recognise medieval Spanish in some of the OLB words. Can you give some examples?

I started a second thread once to discuss specific aspects but the moderator merged it into the old one.

On my blog (link below) I made summaries with the (imo) most relevant parts.

Looking forward to your contributions.

[Ott]

You still haven't answered my last 'attempt'.

Yes, I did:

"Egipteland"

OLB (p.73): ÉGIPTALANDA

Icelandic: Egyptaland or Egiptaland

Did the Icelanders get this spelling from the Dutch bible?

...

In my Latin dictionary I see other possible related words:

praeses = beschermer, verdediger, bestuurder, heerser, stadhouder, landvoogd (protector, ruler, etc)

praetor = consul, krijgsoverste, stadhouder (thus similar to praeses)

praetor maximus = dictator

And you never were able to explain why a 16th century word like "BEDRUM" (bedroom) shows up in a document purported te be dating from 600 BCE.

Yes, I was.

First, the words bed and room are much older.

If the oldest accepted source which has the combination bed-room is from the 16th century (1580s), that does not mean that people didn't use the term much earlier in spoken language (or unaccepted sources).

I also argued that BED can originally have come from the verb BEDA, BEDEN ((aan-)bieden, bidden; to offer, pray).

The recurring misunderstanding is, that the oldest written source proves how old a word is at least, not at most.

[Ott]

From the spelling you could prove the century and place as is done with mediaeval texts. If there is nothing, you can't prove anything.

There has always been spelling variety, even within the OLB itself.

Still today, the Frisian organisation for language standardisation makes a big effort as there is much variety within the province of Friesland.

What you're suggesting is that if, for example, a single Gallic 2000 year old text would be discovered (Caesar wrote that they had a script, 'litteris graecis'), it could not be proven authentic, without a second text that has the same spelling.

Nonsense.

[Ott]

The OLB contains literal citations from this book.

Give an example.

I don't believe you, but IF that would be true, the author could have read (a copy) of the manuscript.

Who knows how many there still are in hidden collections.

The Vatican, for example, most certainly has secret archives.

[NO-ID-EA]

I thought when RUM was discussed before , it was mentioned it could mean fair as in wind , but also spacious as in strong , airy , so what is wrong with someone putting the two together as BED-SPACE , in other words BED-AREA, later BED-ROOM,

[Ott]

Improved version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyB84Er-Z1c

[keithisco]

Welcome to the thread, Keithisco.

Interesting that you recognise medieval Spanish in some of the OLB words. Can you give some examples?

I started a second thread once to discuss specific aspects but the moderator merged it into the old one.

On my blog (link below) I made summaries with the (imo) most relevant parts.

Looking forward to your contributions.

Hi gestur, and thanks for the welcome.

What I was referring to was in your post#4777, where the left page of the Latin text is also readable as Mediaeval Spanish, and almost equally as mediaeval Portuguese. This could well be a Red Herring on my part as I have barely dipped into this thread (it is a bit daunting) and I dont want to deflect from what is clearly an extremely complex and intriguing topic that many people with expert knowledge in this area may have already debunked or disregarded for good reason.

[Ott]

[082/26]

NILST MIN KUL NAVT SÁ SKILST MIN SWÉRD HÁ

[O-S p.115]

wilt gij mijne roede niet, zoo zult gij mijn zwaard hebben

If you will not have me [my rod], you shall have my sword

I noticed something interesting about this word "KUL".

First, it is not listed in any of the oldfrisian dictionaries (Wiarda, Hettema, Richthofen), but it is in Kiliaan's "Etymologicum Teutonicae Linguae" (1599).

It meant both testicle and penis.

The word is only used in modern dutch as meaning "nonsense".

"Beverscul" (13th century) is castoreum, dutch: bevergeil, german: Bibelgeil.

So the dutch-german word "geil" is derived from it.

In my norwegian pocket-dictionary, "Kul" is listed as meaning bump, lump, swelling.

"Kule" in norwegian means bullet, ball. "Kull" is coal.

Look at the similaties between the words and how their meanings are also related.

It is a great example of how various languages (or dialects?) and words within them are related.

1)

kul - norwegian

2)

kule - norwegian

kúla - icelandic

kula - swedish

kugle - danish

kugel - german

kogel - dutch

(bullet, ball - english)

3)

kål - danish, swedsih, norwegian

kál - icelandic

kaali - finnish

caul, kale - english

kool - dutch

kohl - german

4)

kull - norwegian

kul - danish

kol - swedish, icelandic

kool - dutch

kohle - german

coal - english

gual - irish

Edited December 7, 2013 by gestur

[Knul]

[082/26]

Look at the similaties between the words and how their meanings are also related.

It is a great example of how various languages (or dialects?) and words within them are related.

It is a great example of childish etymology.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Knul

[Ott]

New video (spelling-corrected):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-ztSmmgNVg

[Mario Dantas]

Hello Gestur,

Your last video is very interesting!

Why authorities do not investigate this further? I cannot believe that this document has all these elements in favor of it being genuine, and is really considered to be a fake.

I do not know also why Abramelin and others hurry to discredit it or you. All i know is that you are doing a great job at deciphering the charades within this book. I wonder if what you say is true, which would be the consequences of a reversal in the official "consensus"? The first video regarding the Alphabet letters inside the Oera Linda book does make a lot of sense to me.

PS: Is there anybody else aware of your work? I believe you have a winner, regardless of what people say...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited December 10, 2013 by Mario Dantas

[Knul]

PS: Is there anybody else aware of your work? I believe you have a winner, regardless of what people say...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Any mediaeval manuscript fits into a tradition (paper, vocabulary, grammar, script, topics), which in the case of the OLB is completely absent. This fact is systematically ignored by Otharus/Gestur. On the contrary, the OLB reflects the paper, vocabulary, grammar and topics of the mid 19th century.