Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Knul]

Okay nice info, some things are still not clear to me though. Must be the late our ...

Why link specificly Groningers than with settlement in Kerman (+Hanzebond did not come there right?) and how come 'Gert' is choosen to link these Groningers with the Gertmannen.

The anti-Groningen sentiment in Friesland would have inspired OLB author to incorporate this in his tale, while at the same OLB also mentions Groningers to settle in Kerman?

Than the OLB hints at the historical tale of Groningers to settle in Kerman and at the same time hints at the anti-Groningen sentiment of the Fryans against these Geertmannen (Groningers)?

Maybe it all makes sense somewhere, I'm not that versed in Frisian/Groninger sentiments or history but still I have difficulties to follow what the use of this all could be.

The story goes in post-mediëval books, that Saxo (leader of the Saxons), Bruno (leader of the people of Brunswic in Germany) and Friso (leader of the Frisians) migrated from the Middle East. The people of Groningen (leader Wichirte) belonged to the Frsians (like brothers). The author of the OLB made a wordplay of the name Wichhirte as the name means Weakheart, in German Weichhart as opposite to Ironheart in England. So the author of the OLB made him sick and sick again, so that Friso finally negotiated with Demetrius about both the Frisians and on behalf of the Gertmanna. The name of Wichhirte exists to-day as Wigchert, which is a typical Groningen name. Bruno once was writer on a Frisian burcht (he writes a letter in the OLB) and is thus related to the Frisians too.

The OlB claims, that the Middle East region Carmania (Kerman) has been named after Gertman, but it could well be the other way round.

[Ott]

Maybe it all makes sense somewhere...

No, it doesn't.

Knul is a monument of Dutch mysosophy.

The longer I don't post here, the more blatant his nonsense becomes.

And that he keeps ignoring my serious questions about his 'theory' proves that it is not to be taken seriously.

[Ott]

OK, here is a beginning.

One more on the Brut-in-Fryan experiment (with compliments to No-id-ea):

[NO-ID-EA]

Nice Gestur,,,,,indicates to me , that the Frisians language was much closer to how the Brits were speaking at the time ,cant wait until you get to the part in book 2 i think it was where it talks about what sounds like a confederation of nations to fight together.....one part says they attacked Rome ( and do they mean new Rome or old Rome ( ie. Constantinople/Istanbul or the one in Italy ?) which was once theirs , but had been conquered by Moslems ( cant remember the exact wording ?)

Makes me wonder if all the searching people have done looking for Arthur.. that Arthur was not a name , but maybe like Pendragon , was the title given to the leader of the confederation of nations , i think the name Arthur comes from the word friend/s ie like Athens ?

Edited January 26, 2014 by NO-ID-EA

[The Puzzler]

To do with Arthur and his name reminded me of a bit that I haven't nutted out yet...

undfangnisse* 2, andfangnisse, und-fa-n-g-nisse*, and-fa-n-g-nisse*, afries., st. F. (jō): nhd. Empfängnis; ne. conception; Hw.: vgl. ae. andfėngnėss, ahd. antfangnissa*, mnd. entfancnisse, mnl. ontvangenisse; Q.: AA 117; I.: Lüt. lat. conceptio; E.: s. und (2), fa-n-g-nisse; L.: AA 117

Since I can't find atha as any reference to 'friends' - but more either 'oath' - which I can see since they made an agreement (oath) to help the native Athenians - or maybe 'heritage' related - ethe, athe - and were accepted lik âtha vntfongen

...like 'friends' vntfongen

Noting the closest word to untfongen I can find is undfangnisse..? - which funny enough is actually ANFANG - conception - what does anyone make of that part LITERALLY - as it reads, as per what untfongen stands for after atha as friends..?

lik âtha vntfongen

Seems to me they would have the word 'friends' there if they meant friends, so this term is puzzling me a bit.

atha can be compurgator (to do with oath) - it means:

Com´pur`ga`tor

n. 1.

One who bears testimony or swears to the veracity or innocence of another.

like this kind of 'friend' from the beginning/untfongen

By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends (âtha).

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.

Edited January 26, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Van Gorp]

...like 'friends' vntfongen

Noting the closest word to untfongen I can find is undfangnisse..? - which funny enough is actually ANFANG - conception - what does anyone make of that part LITERALLY - as it reads, as per what untfongen stands for after atha as friends..?

Imo "ontvangen" (receive, conception) is just the same as "aanvangen" (begin).

Because where do you welcome and receive your guests, at the reception.

And what is the first point on the agenda when people meet: the reception (the beginning).

The root (like for everyword) must be found in spoken language, not written.

Root is "Oan-vang": to catch on.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/onfang

Concerning atha, i think best to interprete as 'forefathers', those who went first.

Noun[edit]

atta m (genitive attae); first declension

1. father (term of respect for an old man)
   

Edited January 26, 2014 by Van Gorp

[The Puzzler]

Imo "ontvangen" (receive, conception) is just the same as "aanvangen" (begin).

Because where do you welcome and receive your guests, at the reception.

And what is the first point on the agenda when people meet: the reception (the beginning).

The root (like for everyword) must be found in spoken language, not written.

Root is "Oan-vang": to catch on.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/onfang

Concerning atha, i think best to interprete as 'forefathers', those who went first.

Noun[edit]

atta m (genitive attae); first declension

1. father (term of respect for an old man)
   

OK - the heritage way - It could read "like their forefathers/fathers before them" maybe

Are you using 'forefathers' as a term for the 2 words atha untfongen? father+fore

Thank you for helping me along with that.

Edited January 26, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

Great new input folks, thanks.

I'm fixing a major computer problem and try to finish the German version of my video, that's why I haven't commented as much as I would like to.

... i think the name Arthur comes from the word friend/s ie like Athens ?

What about Oldsaxon "ard", Oldenglish "eard" - residence, nature, land, character, origin etc. (rel. to English Earth, German "Art", Dutch "aard" - Fryan JRTHA?).

Arthur's father was Uther; seems to be the same as Othar. (Fryan: OD)

Edited January 26, 2014 by gestur

[NO-ID-EA]

To do with Arthur and his name reminded me of a bit that I haven't nutted out yet...

undfangnisse* 2, andfangnisse, und-fa-n-g-nisse*, and-fa-n-g-nisse*, afries., st. F. (jō): nhd. Empfängnis; ne. conception; Hw.: vgl. ae. andfėngnėss, ahd. antfangnissa*, mnd. entfancnisse, mnl. ontvangenisse; Q.: AA 117; I.: Lüt. lat. conceptio; E.: s. und (2), fa-n-g-nisse; L.: AA 117

Since I can't find atha as any reference to 'friends' - but more either 'oath' - which I can see since they made an agreement (oath) to help the native Athenians - or maybe 'heritage' related - ethe, athe - and were accepted lik âtha vntfongen

...like 'friends' vntfongen

Noting the closest word to untfongen I can find is undfangnisse..? - which funny enough is actually ANFANG - conception - what does anyone make of that part LITERALLY - as it reads, as per what untfongen stands for after atha as friends..?

lik âtha vntfongen

Seems to me they would have the word 'friends' there if they meant friends, so this term is puzzling me a bit.

atha can be compurgator (to do with oath) - it means:

Com´pur`ga`tor

n. 1.

One who bears testimony or swears to the veracity or innocence of another.

like this kind of 'friend' from the beginning/untfongen

By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends (âtha).

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.

So something like a Covenant Puzz ?

[Van Gorp]

OK - the heritage way - It could read "like their forefathers/fathers before them" maybe

Are you using 'forefathers' as a term for the 2 words atha untfongen? father+fore

Thank you for helping me along with that.

Hi Puzz,

As I see it (and I think most Dutch speaking people will have the same feeling):

"Lik atha vntfongen" gives compared with modern Dutch only a little difficulty with the word 'atha', vntfongen is just the spoken dialect of the word 'ontvangen', wich means clearly 'received', 'welcomed'.

So to answer your question 'forefathers' for atha, 'welcomed' for 'vntfongen'.

More exactly in the literally meaning can be 'elderly' for atha (in modern Dutch 'de Ouden'), think as in At(alt)land, the former land.

'At' is oud (old), short for 'alt', so atha are 'elderly' people (de ouden) and in the context this means the Greecks welcomed the Fryans as their 'elderly' family, so the Greecks were an offspring of the Fryans (and ackowledged that, in contrary to later on and now).

Can you imagine: modern people from the North sea going to Greece and telling them the same :-) Nobody believes.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Van Gorp

[Van Gorp]

Great new input folks, thanks.

I'm fixing a major computer problem and try to finish the German version of my video, that's why I haven't commented as much as I would like to.

Succes Gestur! Join the party, beer is standing cold :-)

[Ott]

Since the beginning of this thread (1st part already), Abramelin has argued that OLB can't be authentic because the word BEDRUM (translated as "bedroom") can't be that old, as Shakespeare would have been the first to have used it.

On 25 sept. 2010, I said:

An example [of alleged anachronistic words] often used (e.g. by dr.Jensma) is "BEDRUM", translated by him as 'sleepchamber' (slaapkamer).

BEDEN means to ask, pray, offer (Dutch: bidden, bieden);

RUM means space or room (Dutch: ruim, ruimte).

The modern word "bed" can hereby be explained.

Abramelin replied:

"bedrum fon thêre Moder"

"slaapvertrek van de Moeder" (Ottema)

"bedroom of the folk-mother" (Sandbach)

You appear to suggest that this folk-mother was about to be raped in her own... what, 'praying chamber'?

I clarified (7 oct.'10):

TEX FRYAS (p. 11/12 original manuscript)

point 3:

MEN NE TOF NAVT TIL MAN JO BÉDEN HETH

Modern versions of this word may very well be:

BIDDEN (Dutch) meaning to pray

BIEDEN (Dutch) meaning to offer

BITTEN (German) meaning to ask

BJUDA / BEDJA (Swedish) meaning to ask, invite, request

This is why I think BEDRUM does not need to mean exactly the same as the modern English word BEDROOM.

In Dutch I would translate it -close to the original word- with BIDRUIMTE, a room for meditation, as we would say today.

Now I found something to support my idea that "BEDRUM" originally may have meant oratory (praying- or offering-room):

In "Frieslands Oudheid" (Frisian Antiquity), dr. H. Halbertsma (2000; eds. Cordfunke, Sarfati); p.168;

Referring to a fragment from "Vita Landeberti" (Leven des salighen martelers ende busscops sinte Lambrechtz), about st. Lambert of Maastricht who lived in the 7th century:

"He put off his sword, withdrew in his room, the dormitory (sleep-chamber) that he also used as a oratory (praying-chapel), and streched down arms-wide on the floor, praying for mercy for himself as well as for his enemies." (my translation)

Original text:

"Hij legde zijn zwaard af, trok zich terug in zijn kamer, het slaapvertrek dat hij tevens als bidkapel gebruikte en strekte zich met wijd-gespreide armen uit over de vloer, genade biddende voor zichzelf zowel als zijn vijanden."

[Abramelin]

But still no sign of any "bedroom" before Shakespeare's time.

[Abramelin]

To do with Arthur and his name reminded me of a bit that I haven't nutted out yet...

undfangnisse* 2, andfangnisse, und-fa-n-g-nisse*, and-fa-n-g-nisse*, afries., st. F. (jō): nhd. Empfängnis; ne. conception; Hw.: vgl. ae. andfėngnėss, ahd. antfangnissa*, mnd. entfancnisse, mnl. ontvangenisse; Q.: AA 117; I.: Lüt. lat. conceptio; E.: s. und (2), fa-n-g-nisse; L.: AA 117

Since I can't find atha as any reference to 'friends' - but more either 'oath' - which I can see since they made an agreement (oath) to help the native Athenians - or maybe 'heritage' related - ethe, athe - and were accepted lik âtha vntfongen

...like 'friends' vntfongen

Noting the closest word to untfongen I can find is undfangnisse..? - which funny enough is actually ANFANG - conception - what does anyone make of that part LITERALLY - as it reads, as per what untfongen stands for after atha as friends..?

lik âtha vntfongen

Seems to me they would have the word 'friends' there if they meant friends, so this term is puzzling me a bit.

atha can be compurgator (to do with oath) - it means:

Com´pur`ga`tor

n. 1.

One who bears testimony or swears to the veracity or innocence of another.

like this kind of 'friend' from the beginning/untfongen

By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends (âtha).

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.

In modern Dutch we still use "ontvangen", or, "to receive".

Nothing.to do with "friends" at all.

.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Skeptics dare to question common beliefs.

Believers don´t question what is dictated by authorities such as school and mass media.

You are much more a believer than a skeptic.

No, *I* am the one who posts things that could somewhat support the OLB, not you, not anyone. But I also know that what I post won't really support the OLB. It only gives more credence to the idea that Minoans and Phoenicians visited the North Sea area during the Bronze Age.

You - and not anyone here- has shown any physical/archeological proof the Fryans/Frisians did the reverse, meaning: visited the Med and beyond during the Bronze Age,

=

You are the one and only believer here, and you simply HATE being contradicted in your fierce belief in the OLB.

.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I absolutely do not agree with you. His letters to Verwijs have been corrected by a local schoolmaster of his kids, later his letters to Ottema have been written by his son Leendert ( signature w.g. L.F. over de Linden). Ottema himself wrote that OCdL did not have the skills nor the education to write something like the OLB. His son Leendert thought the same.

But Ottema's translation/transliteration is riddled with mistakes and errors,as we all know by now. Who was he, really, to say that OdL did not have the skills??

He did not have the skills himself.

.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

One more on the Brut-in-Fryan experiment (with compliments to No-id-ea):

That's great, but did you even really READ it??

It is about what I have said time and time again: that the Saxons, Franks, Scots and so on tried to prove they descended from Noah's sons or the Trojans. And I am not talking about just this quote.

The ones who created the OLB did their best to reverse history, or to reverse historical phantasy (like the above).

[The Puzzler]

In modern Dutch we still use "ontvangen", or, "to receive".

Nothing.to do with "friends" at all.

.

So what would you translate the part 'lik atha untfongen'?

I know untfongen is not to do with friends, but what does it denote in the sentence?

"Like 'friends' received"?

In Frisian the word can be related to anfang - beginning - so the sentence could read..

"like 'friends' from the beginning

and atha is not really 'friend' imo - it alludes to friend but doesn't translate to friend - I'm looking for a truer word than friends

Edited January 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

No, *I* am the one who posts things that could somewhat support the OLB, not you, not anyone. But I also know that what I post won't really support the OLB. It only gives more credence to the idea that Minoans and Phoenicians visited the North Sea area during the Bronze Age.

You - and not anyone here- has shown any physical/archeological proof the Fryans/Frisians did the reverse, meaning: visited the Med and beyond during the Bronze Age,

=

You are the one and only believer here, and you simply HATE being contradicted in your fierce belief in the OLB.

.

Nothing solid but was reading some info and found this - about the pile dwellers of Northern Italy, probably also relative to the pile dwellers in the Alps, mentioned in the OLB, as being Fryans.

Some houses are built upon piles even though the village is entirely on dry land and some are not. There is currently no commonly accepted explanation for the piles. The whole is protected by an earthwork strengthened on the inside by buttresses, and encircled by a wide moat supplied with running water. In all over 60 villages are known, almost entirely from Emilia. In the Middle Bronze Age they are no larger than 2 ha (4.9 acres) placed at an average density of 1 per 25 km² (9.7 sq mi). In the Late Bronze Age many sites have been abandoned and the ones that were not are larger, up to 60 ha (150 acres).

Great differences of opinion have arisen as to the origin and ethnographical relations of the Terramare folk. Brizio in his Epoca Preistorica advances the theory that they were the original Ligurians who at some early period took to erecting pile dwellings. Why they should have done so is difficult to see. Some of the Terramare are clearly not built with a view to avoiding inundation, inasmuch as they stand upon hills. The rampart and the moat are for defence against enemies, not against floods, and as Brizio brings in no new invading people till long after the Terramare period, it is difficult to see why the Ligurians should have abandoned their unprotected hut-settlements and taken to elaborate fortification. There are other difficulties of a similar character. Hence Luigi Pigorini regards the Terramare people as a lake-dwelling people who invaded the north of Italy in two waves from Central Europe (the Danube valley) at the end of the Stone Age and the beginning of the Bronze Age, bringing with them the building tradition which led them to erect pile dwellings on dry land, as well as Indo-European languages. These people he calls the Italici, to whom he attributes the Villanovan culture.

The remains discovered may be briefly summarized. Stone objects are few. Of bronze (the chief material) axes, daggers, swords, razors, and knives are found, as also minor implements, such as sickles, needles, pins, brooches, etc. There are also objects of bone and wood, besides pottery (both coarse and fine), amber, and glass paste.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terramare

I'd like to gather all the archaeological references we've found so far into a listing.

Edited January 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

So something like a Covenant Puzz ?

Thinking more...

Maybe received like kin...?

Van Gorp, Thanks - although the problem I have with 'received' is that it's Dutch - the allusion in Frisian to the word, in an earlier form, is conception or beginning, outset.

Edited January 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

I've got another one. wranga as morose.

In Norse you have ongrfullr as sorrowful but rangr as wrong, wry

I'm just in a word picky mood.

All English wr words like wrong, wry, wrangle, wrought etc must imo all stem from this meaning. Context of sad, bad, hard, sour, not right. Through to angry.

Also how does nydiga mean angry? diga appears to relate to diligence (maybe dignity), ny as new? maybe no? - non-diligent people? men with no dignity..?

Thissa domar send makad fara nydiga manniska

THESE RULES ARE MADE FOR ANGRY PEOPLE

Edited January 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[SSilhouette]

To you know who. I actually blocked you several days ago from PMing me. Apparently someone remembered my password from another mutual site, hacked my account here and got his message through anyway. You don't have to worry about me PMing you since I blocked you first. I changed my password and blocked you again. I won't wish such a harsh fate on you as you do me. I've said all I needed to say and you know where I stand. I think time off is an excellent idea. We are in full agreement. You will notice I did not say your name here. That's called "courtesy". You might want to look into that.

[The Puzzler]

But still no sign of any "bedroom" before Shakespeare's time.

bedroom (n.) also bed-room, 1610s, from bed (n.) + room. Slightly earlier in a sense "sleeping space" (1580s).

http://www.etymonlin...hp?term=bedroom

Since the OLB rum is spacious, the term in the OLB would refer to the earlier sense of "sleeping space" - rather than the later term.

However this is still within Shakespeare's time - my minor point being, the earlier usage of 'sleeping space' = OLB bedrvm

Edited January 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

*I*

you are a sad mf

[NO-ID-EA]

That's great, but did you even really READ it??

It is about what I have said time and time again: that the Saxons, Franks, Scots and so on tried to prove they descended from Noah's sons or the Trojans. And I am not talking about just this quote.

The ones who created the OLB did their best to reverse history, or to reverse historical phantasy (like the above).

Even if they did.(Saxons, Franks etc ).... that does not mean that was not their belief of history.......if the bible is true history (i dont think it is ) but if they were all convinced by priests of the new christianity that it is ......then every one alive was descended from Noia and his family........everyone was related ,with jewish forefathers.( so be nice to us jews , give us land , and obey us , you all descended from us ?? )

depends how convincing the priests were ......would have been a reason they were changing everyones chronicles

could Atha relate to this in some way ?......as long lost gens, family , relations, brothers ??

Edited January 27, 2014 by NO-ID-EA