Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

Even if they did.(Saxons, Franks etc ).... that does not mean that was not their belief of history.......if the bible is true history (i dont think it is ) but if they were all convinced by priests of the new christianity that it is ......then every one alive was descended from Noia and his family........everyone was related ,with jewish forefathers.( so be nice to us jews , give us land , and obey us , you all descended from us ?? )

depends how convincing the priests were ......would have been a reason they were changing everyones chronicles

could Atha relate to this in some way ?......as long lost gens, family , relations, brothers ??

The Historia Britonum states that "The island of Britain derives its name from Brutus, a Roman consul" who conquered Spain. This is ultimately derived from Isidore of Seville's popular 7th century work Etymologiae, in which it was speculated that Britain was named after the Roman general Decimus Junius Brutus Callaicus, who pacified Further Spain in 138 BC. A more detailed story, set before the foundation of Rome, follows, in which Brutus is the grandson or great grandson of Aeneas — a legend that blends Isidore's spurious etymology with the Christian, pseudo-historical "Table of Nations" tradition that emerged in the early medieval European scholarly world and attempted to trace the peoples of the known world (as well as legendary figures, such as the Trojan house of Aeneas) back to Biblical ancestors. ^[1]

Following Roman sources such as Livy and Virgil, the Historia tells how Aeneas settled in Italy after the Trojan War, and how his son Ascanius founded Alba Longa, one of the precursors of Rome. Ascanius married, and his wife became pregnant. In a variant version, the father is Silvius, who is identified as either the second son of Aeneas, previously mentioned in the Historia, or as the son of Ascanius. A magician, asked to predict the child's future, said it would be a boy and that he would be the bravest and most beloved in Italy. Enraged, Ascanius had the magician put to death. The mother died in childbirth.

The boy, named Brutus, later accidentally killed his father with an arrow and was banished from Italy. After wandering among the islands of the Tyrrhenian Sea and through Gaul, where he founded the city of Tours, Brutus eventually came to Britain, named it after himself, and filled it with his descendants. His reign is synchronised to the time the High Priest Eli was judge in Israel, and when the Ark of the Covenant was taken by the Philistines.^[2]

A variant version of the Historia Britonum makes Brutus the son of Ascanius's son Silvius, and traces his genealogy back to Ham, son of Noah.^[3] Another chapter traces Brutus's genealogy differently, making him the great-grandson of the legendary Roman king Numa Pompilius, who was himself a son of Ascanius, and tracing his descent from Noah's son Japheth.^[4] These Christianising traditions conflict with the classical Trojan genealogies, relating the Trojan royal family to Greek gods.

Yet another Brutus, son of Hisicion, son of Alanus the first European, also traced back across many generations to Japheth, is referred to in the Historia Britonum. This Brutus's brothers were Francus, Alamanus and Romanus, also ancestors of significant European nations.

Brutus imo may have been in England circa the time of the Phillistines 1000BC, how do we know some person of this kind wasn't?

However, the addition of the relations to Noah by Christianising versions is a bit over the top.

[NO-ID-EA]

OK ... something i have wondered about.....why does everyone want to have been founded by Trojans ?? .....doesn't this go against what is normal ??

isn't it usually the victors that are lauded , and who everyone wants to be descended from , or associated with ??what made being

descended from Trojans flavour of the week ! are they supposed to be descended from the Gods ? so why did they lose. why in the

mythology did so many of the Gods take the Greeks side ?

Were Trojans supposed to be chosen by God before others , were they supposed to have come from the Mesopotamian Gods ?? ,

why so special ???

Edited January 27, 2014 by NO-ID-EA

[NO-ID-EA]

May have just noticed something interesting , but not sure , wonder what you think.

some while ago i asked whether people thought the curls placed in lines on some parts of OL were where the writing had become damaged when it got wet and so could not be read , so the copyist may have put the swirls to indicate that there did used to be more writing but he could not read it.

I think it was Knul that came back and said that he thought it was more something to do with the publishers getting it ready for printing, and these marks were

indications for the printer to leave spaces , or some such ....maybe Knul can re-confirm this or not...

Hopefully this U-tube vid will load , i seem to have trouble loading them.

http://www.youtube.c...SK9x3HSOU#t=134

Goffe Jansma over het Oera Linda Boek

at around 1:37 Jansma starts showing the pages (i am presuming of the original copy).....at around 1:42/3 we see a page that has darker lines , which seems to me to be the swirls ?? but not sure.......at the time the book was first published , everyone thought it was real .. i think......are they going to have let some printer put printers marks all over an original MS..............i am back to thinking those swirls were made by the original scribe to let us know there was more written , but he could no longer read it because of water damage...........what do you all think ???

Edited January 27, 2014 by NO-ID-EA

[Knul]

I think it was Knul that came back and said that he thought it was more something to do with the publishers getting it ready for printing, and these marks were

indications for the printer to leave spaces , or some such ....maybe Knul can re-confirm this or not...

Yes, I can confirm that the ''snakes' are even to-day a sign to fill blancs used in typography. No missing parts.

[Knul]

Were Trojans supposed to be chosen by God before others , were they supposed to have come from the Mesopotamian Gods ?? ,

why so special ???

Many people try to prove, that they descend from Charles the Great. It's better to stand in a bright light than in the shadow, isn't it ?

[Knul]

However, the addition of the relations to Noah by Christianising versions is a bit over the top.

So is Brutus. The name of Brittany (Britannia) is derived from IDG *brt - wooden pole placed at boarders. The name was applied to the Bretons, Bretagne (neighbours of the Gauls) in France first, but has been transferred to Brittany when the Gauls conquered Brittany.

[NO-ID-EA]

So what do you think knul , is it likely they would draw snakes on an original MS ........surely not ?

[Knul]

So what do you think knul , is it likely they would draw snakes on an original MS ........surely not ?

It is the Original text with the snakes meant for the printer, not just the so-called snakes, but different typographical symbols as well, e.g. for corrections.

[NO-ID-EA]

It is the Original text with the snakes meant for the printer, not just the so-called snakes, but different typographical symbols as well, e.g. for corrections.

I am amazed .. so in the 19th C ...they had no qualms about defacing an original MS with printers instructions.....that surprises me !

[Ott]

It is the Original text with the snakes meant for the printer...

blatant nonsense

[NO-ID-EA]

OK ... something i have wondered about.....why does everyone want to have been founded by Trojans ?? .....doesn't this go against what is normal ??

isn't it usually the victors that are lauded , and who everyone wants to be descended from , or associated with ??what made being

descended from Trojans flavour of the week ! are they supposed to be descended from the Gods ? so why did they lose. why in the

mythology did so many of the Gods take the Greeks side ?

Were Trojans supposed to be chosen by God before others , were they supposed to have come from the Mesopotamian Gods ?? ,

why so special ???

Or are Trojans the chosen people.......if i look for what made them special .. all i get is the trojan war......what had they done before that marks them out ??

[Knul]

I am amazed .. so in the 19th C ...they had no qualms about defacing an original MS with printers instructions.....that surprises me !

It was not an original MS, but wrtten mid 19th century.

[Knul]

blatant nonsense

Did you ever look at the typography ?

[The Puzzler]

OK ... something i have wondered about.....why does everyone want to have been founded by Trojans ?? .....doesn't this go against what is normal ??

isn't it usually the victors that are lauded , and who everyone wants to be descended from , or associated with ??what made being

descended from Trojans flavour of the week ! are they supposed to be descended from the Gods ? so why did they lose. why in the

mythology did so many of the Gods take the Greeks side ?

Were Trojans supposed to be chosen by God before others , were they supposed to have come from the Mesopotamian Gods ?? ,

why so special ???

Good questions to ponder. Some thoughts...

My reasoning is that it's Roman based, because Aeneus supposedly was ancestor of Romulus and his mother was Venus and as we know many Roman leaders claimed this lineage also. Rome + Venus = big power

I think Aries, Venus, Apollo and Diana were on the Trojan side, with Poseidon helping Aeneus so I believe Troy had it's fair share of powerful Gods too.

Were they chosen? Maybe - since the origin of Troy is steeped in chosenness. Is that a word? I doubt it...

The Palladium was the wooden idol that fell from Heaven to denote where Ilium was to be built, it was def. a chosen city, the whole history of Troy is very detailed and tied up in Greek myth too, with Poseidon and Apollo building the walls, Hercules exploits there prior to the war, where he decimated them at one point too, when only Priam (and Hesione his sister) was saved when everyone else was killed in his family, Hesione was taken by Heracles and kept by Telemon.

Dardanus was a son of Elektra, another Goddess, she herself a daughter of Atlas. They were skilled to excess in religious duties, possessed Apollo's founding knowledge and were seen as cultured, respectable and pious people. Paris should have died as a baby, he was detected as a bad egg early on, but the Gods instructions were not followed and he lived, paybacks are y'know...

The burning of Troy can be seen as a renewal or rebirth so the real winners were the Trojans, whose line continued on in the most powerful culture the world had ever seen. In Greece, things went from bad to worse, resulting in a whole breakdown of society and a Dark Age. Plato tells it well:

And during the ten years in which the Achaeans were besieging Ilium, the homes of the besiegers were falling into an evil plight. Their youth revolted; and when the soldiers returned to their own cities and families, they did not receive them properly, and as they ought to have done, and numerous deaths, murders, exiles, were the consequence. The exiles came again, under a new name, no longer Achaeans, but Dorians-a name which they derived from Dorieus; for it was he who gathered them together. The rest of the story is told by you Lacedaemonians as part of the history of Sparta.

http://classics.mit....laws.3.iii.html

Achilles was dead, personally I see the glory in being Trojan much more than in being an Achaean.

Edited January 29, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

A variant version of the Historia Britonum makes Brutus the son of Ascanius's son Silvius, and traces his genealogy back to Ham, son of Noah.^[3] Another chapter traces Brutus's genealogy differently, making him the great-grandson of the legendary Roman king Numa Pompilius, who was himself a son of Ascanius, and tracing his descent from Noah's son Japheth.^[4] These Christianising traditions conflict with the classical Trojan genealogies, relating the Trojan royal family to Greek gods.

Japheth is said to possibly be Iapetus in Greek mythology, he is the father of Atlas, Atlas is the father of Elektra, mother of Dardanus - so Brutus genealogy tracing his descent from Japheth could be seen as a parallel to tracing it back to Iapetus - so it's not exactly conflicting in that area.

The OLB actually says a whole troop of Krekalanders/GREEKS came and settled in Rum/Rome - it's a bit ambiguous as it says they came from Troy - but it seems to say they were Greek troops who left Troy (possibly at the end of the war) and settled Rome.

[Ott]

Did you ever look at the typography ?

Good question.

No, never.

Do you know a printer that has or had the Fryan <NG> letter? Would it be printed in Jol-script? For who to read? And if not why would it not have been written in Latin script?

If you ever transcribed a part, you´d know that it´s sometimes impossible to distinguish between Á, A and À - it would have been a printers nightmare.

But there are many more reasons why your suggestion is insane.

* snip *

Edited January 31, 2014 by Saru
Removed derrogatory accusation

[The Puzzler]

Mycenae's name is not Greek, it's some unknown pre-Greek name.

Although the citadel was built by Greeks, the name Mukanai is thought not to be Greek but rather one of the many pre-Greek place names inherited by the immigrant Greeks. That above is reconstructed Linear B. Homer uses the name first (Mykēnē) so to me, that allows for it to be an interpretive name of the city.

Russian

Etymology 1

From Proto-Slavic *mǫka (“torment, torture”).

Noun

му́ка (múka) f ?

1. pain, anguish, torment, suffering, torture
   
2. ordeal
   
3. harassment
   

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mukana

Considering that's all that was going on there, it seems a fair enough name to give it.

The ancestor of Proto-Slavic is Proto-Balto-Slavic, which is also the ancestor of the Baltic languages, e.g. Lithuanian and Latvian. This language in turn is descended from Proto-Indo-European.

http://en.wikipedia....Slavic_language

PIE to English would probably be mock but it may have been a Baltic-derived word/name early on.

Edited January 29, 2014 by The Puzzler

[NO-ID-EA]

....I Just keep seeing My-canae....Mu-Kanai.........Ma-cedon (Sidon ?)

So do no other nations have stories in their histories of deeds of Trojans(other than Greeks ) , having wars with them , trading with them, marrying into them etc, i need to see some special deeds somewhere ???

Puzz...have you got a link to the thread you started about Achaeans being Persians ? did you get much out of it ? i would like to read it , if poss pse.

Edited January 29, 2014 by NO-ID-EA

[The Puzzler]

....I Just keep seeing My-canae....Mu-Kanai.........Ma-cedon (Sidon ?)

So do no other nations have stories in their histories of deeds of Trojans(other than Greeks ) , having wars with them , trading with them, marrying into them etc, i need to see some special deeds somewhere ???

Puzz...have you got a link to the thread you started about Achaeans being Persians ? did you get much out of it ? i would like to read it , if poss pse.

No, no other nations have that. It's part of why it's so mythically historical.

I'll have a look and find it, I don't think it lasted very long though.

Here it is: http://www.unexplain...topic=197489= achaeans persians&st=0

Edited January 30, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

The German version of the one hour video introduction to the Oera Linda-book is ready.

[NO-ID-EA]

No, no other nations have that. It's part of why it's so mythically historical.

I'll have a look and find it, I don't think it lasted very long though.

Here it is: http://www.unexplain...topic=197489= achaeans persians&st=0

Thanks for that Puzz

[Van Gorp]

Mycenae's name is not Greek, it's some unknown pre-Greek name.

Although the citadel was built by Greeks, the name Mukanai is thought not to be Greek but rather one of the many pre-Greek place names inherited by the immigrant Greeks. That above is reconstructed Linear B. Homer uses the name first (Mykēnē) so to me, that allows for it to be an interpretive name of the city.

Russian

Etymology 1

From Proto-Slavic *mǫka (“torment, torture”).

Noun

му́ка (múka) f ?

1. pain, anguish, torment, suffering, torture
   
2. ordeal
   
3. harassment
   

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mukana

Considering that's all that was going on there, it seems a fair enough name to give it.

The ancestor of Proto-Slavic is Proto-Balto-Slavic, which is also the ancestor of the Baltic languages, e.g. Lithuanian and Latvian. This language in turn is descended from Proto-Indo-European.

http://en.wikipedia....Slavic_language

PIE to English would probably be mock but it may have been a Baltic-derived word/name early on.

muiken (muikte, heeft gemuikt) 1 heimelijk handelen 2 heimelijk aanvallen

In de algemeene taal nu niet in gebruik

In sommige andere streken in Z.-N.: dreigen, broeien, van een onweer, eene ziekte, onlusten.

in het werkwoord muiken dat betekent: rijp broeien van vruchten

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=M040242

_______________________________________________________________________________

So, in short:

"muiken" is also known in Dutch language to be a verb.

Not in use anymore, used to define

- to attack (or handle) secretly

- brewing (like a thunderstorm) or some other misfortune/riots

[Van Gorp]

So, in short:

"muiken" is also known in Dutch language to be a verb.

Not in use anymore, used to define

- to attack (or handle) secretly

- brewing (like a thunderstorm) or some other misfortune/riots

Then Mycene is the secret attack (Trojan Horse)

??????

[The Puzzler]

That's not so weird imo and a good thought.

I would think the two words that we gave would be connected underneath too.

to attack (or handle) secretly

- brewing (like a thunderstorm) or some other misfortune/riots

...brings harassment, torment and suffering.

In a nutshell.

[NO-ID-EA]

something to do with Torment and suffering would be an appropriate name to give to people that had just escaped slavery , Myconos ....Greek Island (Myk pho(e)netically..... Meek )....The Myc (meek ) shall inherit the world......those chosen by God (the Myc (meek) ones) Mycenai..??

What's the chances Phoenetic (Phonetic )writing came from Phoenicians (Assyrians ) ?? write what you hear Phoneticaly, rather than draw a symbolic picture ? ........could that be how phoenicians got their name ??

Edited February 1, 2014 by NO-ID-EA