Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Ott]

Do you have an opinion on Lydas name meaning 'suffer'?

Also adapted from earlier (2011) post:

The verb "LYDA"

A study of the meaning of the name LYDA in OLB.

Dutch - lijden

German - Leiden

Swedish - lidande

Danish, Norwegian- lidelse

English - to suffer

1. [011/31]

J HÀWED SJAN HO RING IK HELPE LÉNDE.

DVA AL ÉN MITH JO NÉSTON.

MEN NE TOF NAVT TIL MÀN JO BÉDEN HETH.

THA LYDANDE SKOLDE JO FLOKA

MIN FÁMNA SKOLDUN JVWA NÁMA UFFÁGA UT.ÀT BOK

ÀND IK SKOLDE JO LIK VNBIKÀNNADE OFWISA MOTA

You have seen how speedily I offered help.

Do likewise to your neighbour [or: next ones],

but act not til one has asked you.

The suffering would curse you,

my maidens would erase your name from the book,

and I would have to reject you like a stranger [litt. unknown]

2. [020/02]

EK THORP SKIL EN HÉM.RIK HÀVA NÉI SINA BIHOF

ÀND THÉNE GRÉVA SKIL NJVDA

THAT ALRA EK SIN DÉL BIDONGTH ÀND GOD HALD

TIL THJU THA ÀFTER.KVMANDE NÉN SKÀDA NAVT NE LYDA NE MVGE

Every village shall possess a common [?] for its need,

and the reeve shall take care

that each fertilises his part and keeps it good,

so that the aftercoming may suffer no damage

3. [050/07]

THRJU JÉR WAS JRTHA ALSA TO LYDANDE

MEN THÁ HJU BÉTER WÉRE

MACHT MÀN HJRA VVNDA SJA

During three years Earth was suffering,

but when she got better,

her wounds became visible

4. [135/27]

MEN THA LÀFA SKIN.FRÁNA PRESTARA NE MACHTON THÀT NAVT NE LYDA

but the cowardly hypocritical priests could not suffer this

5. [139/15]

VRMITES HJA WISTON THÀT JES.US

ÀJEN THA RIKA TO FJELDA TÁGEN HÉDE.

SÁ KÉTHON HJA ALLERWÉIKES

THAT ÀRMODE HÁ. ÀND ÉNFALD SÁ.

THJU DÜRE WÉRE VMBE IN SIN RIK TO KVMANE.

THÀT THÉRA THÉR HÍR VP IRTHA THÀT MÁSTE LÉDEN HÉDE.

NÉIMELS THA MÁSTA NOCHTA HÀVA SKOLDE

Because they knew that Jes-us

had been opposed to the rich,

they announced everywhere

that having poverty, and being simple

were the door by which to enter into his empire,

and that those who had suffered the most here on earth

should afterwards have the most pleasures

6. [153/04]

FRISO SÉITH THAT.ER NÉNE PRESTERA

NER POPPA FORSTA LÍDE NE MÉI.

MEN IK SEG.

HI NE MÉI NIMMAN LÍDA AS HIM SELVA

Friso says he cannot suffer any priests

or foreign princes [litt. -firsts],

but I say

he cannot suffer anybody but himself

7. [166/08]

BUTA ÀND BIHALVA THET THA LJUDA

THÉR FÜL FON HJARA FORSTA LYDA.

MOTON HJA ÁK NOCH FÜL

FON THET FENÍNIGE ÀND WILDE KWIK LYDA

Besides the fact that the people

suffer much there from their princes [or: kings],

they also suffer much

from the poisonous and wild beasts

Edited August 24, 2014 by Othar Winis

[The Puzzler]

lol - OK, well 2 out of 3 aint bad.

I know Finda does seem to be find but for some reason I just cant 'find' a reason for her to be called that - however from the texts you showed it does seem to be find.

This is kinda interesting -

finda 40, find-a, afries., st. V. (3a): nhd. finden, antreffen, Urteil finden, Recht finden, weisen, erfinden; ne. find (V.), decide, invent;

Vnder hira tid heth Finda âk en skrift utfvnden,

In her time Finda also invented a mode of writing, but that was so high-flown and full of flourishes that her descendants have soon lost the meaning of it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

find (v.) Old English findan "come upon, meet with, discover; obtain by search or study" (class III strong verb; past tense fand, past participle funden), from Proto-Germanic *finthan "to come upon, discover" (cognates: Old Saxon findan, Old Frisian finda, Old Norse finna, Middle Dutch vinden, Old High German findan, German finden, Gothic finþan), originally "to come upon."

The Germanic word is from PIE root *pent- "to tread, go" (cognates: Old High German fendeo "pedestrian;" Sanskrit panthah "path, way;" Avestan panta "way;" Greek pontos "open sea," patein "to tread, walk;" Latin pons (genitive pontis) "bridge;" Old Church Slavonic poti "path," peta "heel;" Russian put' "path, way"). To find out "to discover by scrutiny" is from 1550s (Middle English had a verb, outfinden, c.1300).

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

invent (v.) late 15c., "find, discover," a back-formation from invention or else from Latin inventus, past participle of invenire “to come upon; devise, discover” (see invention). Meaning "make up, think up" is from 1530s, as is that of "produce by original thought."

Edited August 24, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Van Gorp]

"Emong Findas folk send wanwysa, thêr thrvch hjara overfindingrikhêd alsa aerg send, thaet hja hjara selva wis mâkja aend tha inewida bitjuga, thaet hja thet besta dêl send fon Wr.alda; thaet hjara gâst thet beste dêl is fon Wr.aldas gâst aend thet Wr.alda allêna mêi thaenkja thrvch helpe hjaris bryn"

Among Finda’s people there are false teachers, who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked that they make themselves and their adherents believe that they are the best part of Wr-alda, that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda’s spirit, and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.

"Findas folk skil sina findingrikhêd to mêna nitha wenda, thaet Lydas folk sina kraefta aend wi vsa wisdom."

Finda’s folk shall contribute their industry (inventiveness, slyness) to the common good, Linda’s folk their strength, and we our wisdom.

But Finda is also treacherous and false, so their inventiveness "finding-rikhed" is deceiptfull and not for common good.

For me that is a connection through OLB narrative why Finda could share root with "to find".

[The Puzzler]

"Emong Findas folk send wanwysa, thêr thrvch hjara overfindingrikhêd alsa aerg send, thaet hja hjara selva wis mâkja aend tha inewida bitjuga, thaet hja thet besta dêl send fon Wr.alda; thaet hjara gâst thet beste dêl is fon Wr.aldas gâst aend thet Wr.alda allêna mêi thaenkja thrvch helpe hjaris bryn"

Among Finda’s people there are false teachers, who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked that they make themselves and their adherents believe that they are the best part of Wr-alda, that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda’s spirit, and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.

"Findas folk skil sina findingrikhêd to mêna nitha wenda, thaet Lydas folk sina kraefta aend wi vsa wisdom."

Finda’s folk shall contribute their industry (inventiveness, slyness) to the common good, Linda’s folk their strength, and we our wisdom.

But Finda is also treacherous and false, so their inventiveness "finding-rikhed" is deceiptfull and not for common good.

For me that is a connection through OLB narrative why Finda could share root with "to find".

Yes, I must say, I found that reference to inventiveness after I made comment on not knowing why she may be so named.

On discovering that and pondering it some more overnight - I agree with what you wrote - that this seems a likely name, in context with usage in OLB.

Edited August 25, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Throughout OLB one of the most mentionned adverseries of the Fryas.

Physical, but also in behaviour.

When Finda are spoken to have hair like the manes of a horse, one could think of any kind of horse manes, curly, straight, brown, black, long, knotted. One can choose, and I thought long, straight, black hair could be the safest to describe Finda. But then I was thinking: is this really so typical for horse manes? Maybe only long hair? But what does this tell: that people from East (india) coming to Scandinavia were having long hair in contrast with here? I dunno.

I've thought about this.

Personally, I think the Finda are not actually black haired, like Chinese or Asians, lyda has black hair, but the Finda IMO are brown haired, long brown haired steppe roamers, an Asiatic in the way of geography, where Asia starts at the Middle East.

Like my hair, long, brown and straight, like the mane of a regular brown horse that was a staple of the nomads and cultures that ranged from India to Europe.

Thus, then, did they celebrate the funeral of Hector tamer of horses.

[Ott]

The oldest and most beautiful Neptune mosaics are found in Tunesia:

In archaeological museum of Sousse:

"Triumph of Neptune", mid-third century

In

Bardo National Museum, Tunis:

"Triumph of Neptune and Aphrodite", 2nd century

"Triumph of Neptune", late 2nd century

The Oera Linda Book is often ridiculed, because it suggests that the name Neptune is derived from NÉF.TÜNIS, "neef" being dutch/ frisian for cousin or nephew.

The following list shows that this word is not at all specifically dutch, but must in fact be very old. Besides, the original meaning seems to have been more general: kinsman (or perhaps even also -woman).

nefi (kinsman) - icelandic

nevø - danish, norse

nevö - swedish

neef (cousin, nephew) - dutch

Neffe (son of brother or sister) - german

nephew - english

nepuotis - lithuanian

nõbu - estonian

nei - welsh

nip - albanian

nipote (niece, nephew, grandchild) - italian

nebot - catalan

nepos (grandson, descendant) - latin

anepsios (son of uncle or aunt) - old greek

nepodes (descendant) - old greek

nápat (grandson, descendant) - sanskrit

napat - old persian

nefa (grandson) - old english

nia - old irish

neve, neue (male kinsman) - low german, old dutch

neveu (nephew, grandson) - old french

nift (niece, granddaughter) - old english/ german

nift, nicht (niece, cousin, young girl) - frisian

neben (near, next, neighboring) - german

neven, neffen - dutch

http://www.etymonline.com/nephew

http://gtb.inl.nl/neef

http://etymologiebank.nl/neven

http://etymologiebank.nl/neef

"in alle talen konden er verschillende mannelijke bloedverwanten mee worden aangeduid" (in all languages a variety of male kinsmen could be denoted by it)

Relevant OLB-fragments:

[053/15] (Ottema, Sandbach p.75)

ANDA ALDER.GÁ.MVDE

THÉR RESTE EN ALDE SÉ.KÀNING.

STERIK WAS SIN NOME

ÀND THA HROP VR SINA DÉDA WAS GRÁT.

THISSE ALDE ROB HÉDE THRÉ NÉVA.

WODIN THENE ALDESTE HÉMDE TO LUMKA.MÁKIA

BY THÉRE É.MVDE TO ÁST.FLÍ.LAND

BY SIN ELDRUM T.US.

ÉNES WAS.ER HÉRMAN WÉST.

TÜNIS ÀND INKA WÉRON SÉKÀMPAR

ÀND JUST NW BI HJARA FÀDERJA

ANDA ALDER.GÁ.MVDE T.US.

AS THA JONGA KÀMPAR NW BI EKKORUM KÉMON

KÉRON HJA WODIN TO HJARA HÉR.MAN JEFTA KÀNING UT.

ÀND THA SÉ.KÀMPAR KÉRON TÜNIS TO.RA SÉ.KÀNING

ÀND INKA TO HJARA SKELTA BÎ THÉR NACHT.

[056/21] (O., S. p.79)

NW KVMATH THA SKÉDNESE FON NÉF TÜNIS

ÀND SIN NÉF INKA ÉROST RJUCHT VPPET PAT.

(read whole text till p.60, line 11)

Important fragment:

[058/27] (O., S. p.83)

SVME WILDET FRYA.S.BURCH HÉTA.

ORA NÉF.TÜNJA.

MEN THA MÁGJARA ÀND THA FINNA BÁDON

HÀT SKOLDE THÍR.HIS.BURCH HÉTE.

THÍR ALSA HÉTON HJA ÉN HJARAR DROCHTENA

ÀND VPPA THAM.IS JÉRDÉI WÉRON HJA THÉR LAND.

TO WITHER.JELD WILDON HJA TÜNIS ÉVG

AS HJARA KÀNING BIKÀNNA.

TÜNIS LÉT IM BILÉSA

ÀND THA ORA NILDON THÉRVR NÉN ORLOCH NE HÁ.

[069/01] (O., S. p.97)

THI KÀNING WAS FON TÜNIS OFSTAMED.

SÁ WI LÉTER HÉRDON.

MEN TILTHJU THA PRESTERA EN KÀNING WILDE HÀVE

THÉR ALDERLANGNE NÉI HJARA BIGRIP WÉRE

ALSA HÉDE HJA TÜNIS TO EN GODE VPHÉJAD.

TO ÀRGNISSE SINRA FOLGAR.

[The Puzzler]

What's interesting here is that NEF/NEEF isn't in the Frisian dictionary - but nei is as near and then neifolgia words = near follow - although NEVA is nephew in the dictionary, it might have had F rather than V so what could it stem from is what I ask?

I wonder then if NEF/NEEF is a shorter form of this meaning... ie; closest (relative) to follow, succession

Nift in above post as Frisian closest girl then also makes sense because it's not selectively about males, maybe patriarchal society just made it this way, but does seem to represent NEAREST to FOLLOW

Edited August 26, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

In the story of WODIN, INKA and TÜNIS, the word is NÉF, plural NÉVA, but later in the text, NÉVA is used as singular:

p.209

AL.RIK WÉRE ÁSKAR HIS NÉVA.

Al-rik was Áskar's kinsman.

[Abramelin]

Being curious, I checked what word is used in the OLB for English translation 'teach' and it is 'learn'.

Macht ik thêr hwat to dvande, thà skol-ik skrywa, aend alsa fêlo êrsêma toghatera vmbe to lêrane,

If I might add more, I would recommend that all the respectable girls in the towns should be taught

Baern mot maen lêre,

You must teach the children

The usual sense of Old English tæcan was "show, declare, warn, persuade" (compare German zeigen "to show," from the same root); while the Old English word for "to teach, instruct, guide" was more commonly læran, source of modern learn and lore.

So, in Frisian and OLB Fryan we have the word tex and its variants = a token, a sign, to show, proof whereas the term for teach/teacan is the more commonly used 'learan' learn, showing that word TEX is rooted in the forms of token, rather than teach, in the OLB at least.

This is from my post you responded to:

Related to Old English tacen, tacn "sign, mark" (see token).

[Abramelin]

The oldest and most beautiful Neptune mosaics are found in Tunesia:

In archaeological museum of Sousse:

"Triumph of Neptune", mid-third century

In

Bardo National Museum, Tunis:

"Triumph of Neptune and Aphrodite", 2nd century

"Triumph of Neptune", late 2nd century

The Oera Linda Book is often ridiculed, because it suggests that the name Neptune is derived from NÉF.TÜNIS, "neef" being dutch/ frisian for cousin or nephew.

The following list shows that this word is not at all specifically dutch, but must in fact be very old. Besides, the original meaning seems to have been more general: kinsman (or perhaps even also -woman).

nefi (kinsman) - icelandic

nevø - danish, norse

nevö - swedish

neef (cousin, nephew) - dutch

Neffe (son of brother or sister) - german

nephew - english

nepuotis - lithuanian

nõbu - estonian

nei - welsh

nip - albanian

nipote (niece, nephew, grandchild) - italian

nebot - catalan

nepos (grandson, descendant) - latin

anepsios (son of uncle or aunt) - old greek

nepodes (descendant) - old greek

nápat (grandson, descendant) - sanskrit

napat - old persian

nefa (grandson) - old english

nia - old irish

neve, neue (male kinsman) - low german, old dutch

neveu (nephew, grandson) - old french

nift (niece, granddaughter) - old english/ german

nift, nicht (niece, cousin, young girl) - frisian

neben (near, next, neighboring) - german

neven, neffen - dutch

http://www.etymonline.com/nephew

http://gtb.inl.nl/neef

http://etymologiebank.nl/neven

http://etymologiebank.nl/neef

"in alle talen konden er verschillende mannelijke bloedverwanten mee worden aangeduid" (in all languages a variety of male kinsmen could be denoted by it)

Relevant OLB-fragments:

[053/15] (Ottema, Sandbach p.75)

ANDA ALDER.GÁ.MVDE

THÉR RESTE EN ALDE SÉ.KÀNING.

STERIK WAS SIN NOME

ÀND THA HROP VR SINA DÉDA WAS GRÁT.

THISSE ALDE ROB HÉDE THRÉ NÉVA.

WODIN THENE ALDESTE HÉMDE TO LUMKA.MÁKIA

BY THÉRE É.MVDE TO ÁST.FLÍ.LAND

BY SIN ELDRUM T.US.

ÉNES WAS.ER HÉRMAN WÉST.

TÜNIS ÀND INKA WÉRON SÉKÀMPAR

ÀND JUST NW BI HJARA FÀDERJA

ANDA ALDER.GÁ.MVDE T.US.

AS THA JONGA KÀMPAR NW BI EKKORUM KÉMON

KÉRON HJA WODIN TO HJARA HÉR.MAN JEFTA KÀNING UT.

ÀND THA SÉ.KÀMPAR KÉRON TÜNIS TO.RA SÉ.KÀNING

ÀND INKA TO HJARA SKELTA BÎ THÉR NACHT.

[056/21] (O., S. p.79)

NW KVMATH THA SKÉDNESE FON NÉF TÜNIS

ÀND SIN NÉF INKA ÉROST RJUCHT VPPET PAT.

(read whole text till p.60, line 11)

Important fragment:

[058/27] (O., S. p.83)

SVME WILDET FRYA.S.BURCH HÉTA.

ORA NÉF.TÜNJA.

MEN THA MÁGJARA ÀND THA FINNA BÁDON

HÀT SKOLDE THÍR.HIS.BURCH HÉTE.

THÍR ALSA HÉTON HJA ÉN HJARAR DROCHTENA

ÀND VPPA THAM.IS JÉRDÉI WÉRON HJA THÉR LAND.

TO WITHER.JELD WILDON HJA TÜNIS ÉVG

AS HJARA KÀNING BIKÀNNA.

TÜNIS LÉT IM BILÉSA

ÀND THA ORA NILDON THÉRVR NÉN ORLOCH NE HÁ.

[069/01] (O., S. p.97)

THI KÀNING WAS FON TÜNIS OFSTAMED.

SÁ WI LÉTER HÉRDON.

MEN TILTHJU THA PRESTERA EN KÀNING WILDE HÀVE

THÉR ALDERLANGNE NÉI HJARA BIGRIP WÉRE

ALSA HÉDE HJA TÜNIS TO EN GODE VPHÉJAD.

TO ÀRGNISSE SINRA FOLGAR.

The suggestion (OLB) was that Nef Tunis was the original name/spelling of Neptune. What you posted doesn't prove or disprove anything.

[Abramelin]

I'm not Dutch so i can only rely on the standard (1876?) English translation, but i thought it was common knowledge the OLB places Atland/Aldland in northern europe?

It's not common knowledge at all; it's Scruttons's interpretation of a book he had read about, but not read himself.

What I tried to make clear is that when you read the OLB yourself, then you will know Aldland could never have been located in the North Sea or the Baltic Sea.

Maybe you are confusing sources: it was Olaus Rudbeck (a Swede) who claimed (in the 17th century) that Scandinavia was Atlantis.

And it was Jürgen Spanuth (a German) who claimed that Atlantis was ancient Denmark during the Bronze Age.

[Ott]

What you posted doesn't prove or disprove anything.

It proves that the suggested etymology is not as silly or ridiculous as pseudo-skeptics like you want us to believe.

See this video at 8:50 min.:

http://youtu.be/KizBoaY2qUQ?t=8m50s

Why are the most significant Neptune mosaics found in Tunesia of all places?

Edited August 26, 2014 by Othar Winis

[Gingitsune]

Why are the most significant Neptune mosaics found in Tunesia of all places?

It's a pun only us modern readers can appreciate, the country including the city of Tunis didn't get named Tunis or Tunisia before the Almohads. It was first part of Lybia, then province of Africa, then Ifriqiya. Even regionally, it's not before the creation of the independant principality of Tunis in 1059 that the city outshadow Carthage or Kairouan of which she was a mere suburb. Finally, in 1159, as the Almohads conquest both independant city-state Tunis and the region surounding it, the city was made capital of the prinvince, then of the kingdom.

But back to the 2nd and 3rd centuries, Tunis was a simple town, unrelated to far away Sousse and Chebba where the three mosaic you present where found.

[The Puzzler]

In the story of WODIN, INKA and TÜNIS, the word is NÉF, plural NÉVA, but later in the text, NÉVA is used as singular:

p.209

AL.RIK WÉRE ÁSKAR HIS NÉVA.

Al-rik was Áskar's kinsman.

I'll tell you what I'm seeing.

Neva is like nether, BELOW, LOWER, UNDER and that is what NEAR FOLLOW means...

Nearest to follow you - succession - the one nearest you, that is under you. Below you, younger than you. The next child to be born in your family (apart from a brother or sister) would generally be your elder siblings child, your niece or nephew - so in many ways this concept works.

All these ridiculous PIE words could be banished with one swoop of an OLB magic wand.

Edited August 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

But back to the 2nd and 3rd centuries, Tunis was a simple town, unrelated to far away Sousse and Chebba where the three mosaic you present where found.

Sousse and Chebba are not that far away (Sousse is between Tunis and Chebba, that are 250 km. apart). How can you say they are not (culturally) related?

So Tunisia is named after Tunis, which may have been unimportant in the time you refer to, but it had been destroyed by the Romans and was in fact much older:

"In the 2nd millennium BC a town, originally named Tunes, was founded by Berbers and also over time occupied by Numidians. In 146 BC, the Romans destroyed Tunis (along with Carthage)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunis

How did Tunes get its name?

It is not impossible that it is from Nef-/ Nep-Tunis, a naval hero named (kinsman) 'Tony', who was deified, as described in OLB.

Anyway, the argument (most often used) that OLB's etymology would be sheer nonsense, is invalid.

[The Puzzler]

It proves that the suggested etymology is not as silly or ridiculous as pseudo-skeptics like you want us to believe.

See this video at 8:50 min.:

http://youtu.be/KizBoaY2qUQ?t=8m50s

Why are the most significant Neptune mosaics found in Tunesia of all places?

As I understand many of the suggested etymologies in the OLB make perfect sense and I'd challenge anyone to come up with better ones.

Edited August 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

"In the 2nd millennium BC a town, originally named Tunes, was founded by Berbers and also over time occupied by Numidians. In 146 BC, the Romans destroyed Tunis (along with Carthage)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunis

How did Tunes get it name?

Was it now?

I'm onto it.

Edited August 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

This is from my post you responded to:

Related to Old English tacen, tacn "sign, mark" (see token).

and...??

10 days, too vague, too many wines under the table...your point?

Just in case, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just clarifying.

[The Puzzler]

I've got another one thinking of Minerva, erva

Nei erva or nei erfa - neiefa - NEEF

Nearest heritage

[Gingitsune]

Sousse and Chebba are not that far away (Sousse is between Tunis and Chebba, that are 250 km. apart). How can you say they are not (culturally) related?

Culturally related or not, if Tunis was the origine of Neptune, you'd find Neptune temples much closer to Tunis proper. It's like there would be no temple of Athena in Athens proper, but only some in Anatolia or Macedonia, 250 km apart. At the very least there should be rumors of a lost temple of Neptune in Tunis or a temple to an unknown god or something.

How did Tunes get its name?

It seems an Tunisian historian named Paul Sebag link the name to the berber verb "to lay down", to "sleep at" or "tu stay for the night" which is prononced "nes". Some related words include "tines" (plur. "tenese"), which indicate Tunis was probably a night camp. Other towns in Roman Africa had similar names, like Tuniza, Thunusuda, Tinissut or Thunisa.

The older we know Tunis was around under this name (or a closely related one, like Tunes, Tunus or Tunas) is the 6th century BC. Carthage is 3 century older. It was an important stop on the trafic ways between the Berbers and Egypt. And it seems the city was mainly populated by Berbers.

The Oera Linda Book is often ridiculed, because it suggests that the name Neptune is derived from NÉF.TÜNIS

I don't know much about the Oera Linda Book, and what place this Neptune / Néf.Tünis argument takes into the greater debate. All I'm saying is, Tunis the city is probably unrelated to Neptune, as it was made by Berbers, for Berbers. There is no ancien Neptune temple in Tunis or in the surronding cities, and If there was a Nef-/ Nep-Tunis, a naval hero named (kinsman) 'Tony', who was deified, then he wasn't so popular in his own country.

[Ott]

Culturally related or not, if Tunis was the origine of Neptune, you'd find Neptune temples much closer to Tunis proper.

Not if they were destroyed by Romans around 150 BCE.

And to be exact: I don't suggest Tunis was the origin of Neptune, but rather named after him.

[The Puzzler]

They give an etymology as possible ens in Berber for camp, stop over etc.

So what does Tunis mean?

Consult Frisian dictionary:

tūn (1) 3, tū-n, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Zaun, eingezäuntes Feld; ne. enclosure; Hw.: s. *tē-n-a; vgl. got. *tūn-, an. tūn, ae. tūn, anfrk. tūn, as. *tūn?, ahd. zūn; Q.: E, S; E.: germ. *tūna-, *tūnaz, st. M. (a), Zaun, Gehege; s. air. dún, N., Festung, Burg; vgl. idg. *dʰeu- (4), *dʰeu̯ə-, *dʰeu̯h₂-, *dʰuh₂-, V., Sb., stieben, wirbeln, wehen, stinken, schütteln, Dampf (M.) (1), Hauch, Rauch, Pokorny 261?; W.: nfries. tuwn; W.: saterl. tune; W.: nnordfries. tun; L.: Hh 116a, Hh 178, Rh 1094b

tūn (2) 1 und häufiger, afries., M.: nhd. kleine silberne Münze; ne. small silver coin (N.); E.: ?; L.: Hh 116a, Hh 148b, Hh 178

tūna, tūn-a, afries., sw. M. (n): Vw.: s. thūn-a

tunge 28, tung-e, afries., sw. F. (n): nhd. Zunge, Sprache; ne. tongue, language; ÜG.: lat. lingua AB (90, 4); Hw.: vgl. got. tuggō, an. tunga, ae. tunge, anfrk. tunga, as. tunga, ahd. zunga; Q.: R, E, H, S, W, B, AB (90, 4); Vw.: s. -bōt-e; E.: germ. *tungō-, *tungōn, sw. F. (n), Zunge; idg. *dn̥g̑ʰū, M., *dn̥g̑ʰu̯ā, F., Zunge, Pokorny 223; W.: nfries. tonge, tonge; W.: nnordfries. tonge, tunge; L.: Hh 116a, Rh 1094b

tungebōte 1, tung-e-bōt-e, afries., st. F. (ō): nhd. Zungenbuße; ne. fine (N.) of the tongue; Q.: E; E.: s. tung-e, bōt-e; L.: Hh 116a, Rh 1095a

tūnia***, tū-n-ia***, afries., sw. V. (2): Vw.: s. bi-; E.: s. *tē-n-a; L.: Hh 149a

tunne 2, tonne, tunn-e, tonn-e, afries., st. F. (ō): nhd. Tonne (F.) (1); ne. tun (N.); Vw.: s. pi-k-; Hw.: vgl. an. tunna, ae. tunne, as. *tunna?, ahd. tunna*; E.: germ. *tonna, tunna, F., Tonne (F.) (1?); s. lat.-kelt. tunna, F., Tonne (F.) (1); idg. ?; W.: nnordfries. tenn; L.: Hh 116a, Rh 1095a

Maybe enclosure - that would be a suitable name for a town or should I say tuwn, for Poseidon/Neptune to have a name as such, imo, would not be surprising at all. As one who also studies Platos Atlantis, that name for Poseidon is really very perfect, because that's actually what he did...

Poseidon fell in love with her and had intercourse with her, and breaking the ground, enclosed the hill in which she dwelt all round, making alternate zones of sea and land larger and smaller, encircling one another; there were two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe, each having its circumference equidistant every way from the centre, so that no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not as yet.

Edited August 27, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Van Gorp]

I'll tell you what I'm seeing.

Neva is like nether, BELOW, LOWER, UNDER and that is what NEAR FOLLOW means...

Nearest to follow you - succession - the one nearest you, that is under you. Below you, younger than you. The next child to be born in your family (apart from a brother or sister) would generally be your elder siblings child, your niece or nephew - so in many ways this concept works.

All these ridiculous PIE words could be banished with one swoop of an OLB magic wand.

I don't know if the OLB text is the one clearifying, indicating or confirming exactly the thoughts below, but as it happens more it is just the pondering about OLB text (or names) that brings me a bit further in my thoughts than i would normally do.

Now for nef as nephew it makes me wonder why in the more accepted etymologies the link with "neven(s)" (or neffen in dialect, translated with "alongside, beside, next" like interpretations) is not that clear. O. mentionned it earlier at the end of his list. Could be I missed it, but the link seems not really clear in the ones below (correct me if wrong).

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/neef (nephew)

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/neven (on par, equal, next to)

Allthough the meaning of nephews as the ones on the same level in the bigger family tree, it makes sense to be "neven" to eachother.

Lateron used also for the relation uncle-nephew?

"Nicht" then as "naast"?

Neef -> "In Effe" as the link for neven "In Even" mentions. To be equal, on the same level of the family tree expanded one circle further than the household family.

Achter-neef (grand nephew, second cousin) -> on the same level of the family tree expanded 2 circles.

[Ott]

Summary of facts concerning the Neptune - NÉF.TÜNIS issue:

1. The most impressive depictions (i.c. mosaics) of Neptune were found in what is now Tunisia, less than 300 km. from the coastal city Tunis.

2. Tunis is thought to have been founded in the 2nd millennium BCE and the etymology is not clear.

3. The root-word nef/ nep (and varieties) exists in many languages, originally meaning kinsman, later mostly cousin, nephew or grandson.

4. Tunis, Teunis, Tony, Tonio is a man's name that could be over 3000 years old.

5. OLB describes a naval hero who was known as NÉF.TÜNIS, who sailed to the Mediterranean and who was later deified.

6. This OLB etymology was used as an example of ridiculous/ impossible etymology; as proof that OLB must be a joke or hoax.

My conclusions:

- The city Tunis could in fact have been named after a deified naval hero 'néf-Tünis'.

- The story and etymology as described in OLB is not impossible and no valid reason to reject its authenticity.

[The Puzzler]

I don't know if the OLB text is the one clearifying, indicating or confirming exactly the thoughts below, but as it happens more it is just the pondering about OLB text (or names) that brings me a bit further in my thoughts than i would normally do.

Now for nef as nephew it makes me wonder why in the more accepted etymologies the link with "neven(s)" (or neffen in dialect, translated with "alongside, beside, next" like interpretations) is not that clear. O. mentionned it earlier at the end of his list. Could be I missed it, but the link seems not really clear in the ones below (correct me if wrong).

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/neef (nephew)

http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/neven (on par, equal, next to)

Allthough the meaning of nephews as the ones on the same level in the bigger family tree, it makes sense to be "neven" to eachother.

Lateron used also for the relation uncle-nephew?

"Nicht" then as "naast"?

Neef -> "In Effe" as the link for neven "In Even" mentions. To be equal, on the same level of the family tree expanded one circle further than the household family.

Achter-neef (grand nephew, second cousin) -> on the same level of the family tree expanded 2 circles.

so, near-even...? nei-effe/nei-eva/neva

How about the addition of erva for heritage...?

nei-erva/neva

your near-heritage