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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


Abramelin
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Out of curiosity, does Otharus think that Aldland was the Fryas homaeland? I had read your theory that it was of the Findasfolk, but now that I actually read the OLB it seems painfully obvious that t is the case.

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I was unaware of that! (though 'fo' is how a Frenchman would also pronounce faux)

Glancing at the Latin Dictionary, the root word for 'faux' comes from fallax- which sounds nothing lke faux.

What does Otharus say about that? 'You confuse language with writng'? ;)

No this is really interesting.

For the reason of a connection between Fo and False via Frisian, it would have been way more suitable to take over 'Fot' instead of 'Fo'.

Because Fot (as Buddha is known) is way closer to False than Fo when looking from Dutch/Frisian stand of view.

Why should writers of OLB use the french language (faux) to connect Fot with False?

They should then have rather sticked with Fot, which is actually the shorter pronounciation of 'Fout'.

Faux in French is not needed to make the connection.

A miss before open goal, and that while some think OLB etymologies have no real ground but rather nice finds.

If it all were nice finds: why did they not use 'Fot' to say 'Fot' (Fout) means False?

Here we have the answer why fallax (which is actually just 'vals') does not sound like faux.

It's because vals en fout are both the root for fallax and faux (fout without t), no otherway round.

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Foe in English

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foe

... "from Proto-Germanic *faihaz" (false) rings a bell as the enemy of the priests?

I had this in an old post from something else:

fiend (n.) Old English feond "enemy, foe" originally present participle of feogan "to hate," from Proto-Germanic *fijand- "hating, hostile" (cognates: Old Frisian fiand "enemy," Old Saxon fiond, Middle Dutch viant, Dutch vijand "enemy," Old Norse fjandi, Old High German fiant, Gothic fijands), from suffixed form of PIE root *pe(i)- "to hurt" (source also of Gothic faian "to blame;" see passion).

As spelling suggests, it was originally the opposite of friend, but the word began to be used in Old English for "Satan" (as the "enemy of mankind"), which shifted its sense to "diabolical person" (early 13c.). The old sense of the word devolved to foe, then to the imported word enemy. For spelling with -ie- see field. Meaning "devotee (of whatever is indicated)," as in dope fiend, is from 1865.

The fiends, the enemy, the foes, the ones who we have hostilities with, with hatred between them. Interesting how the spelling represents the opposite of friend and it appears "Satan" is indeed 'hate' - the enemy Finda and her people.

Finda's name might even be this imo - Fianda/Fienda

I do think this is what Fo as false means too. A false friend, a fiend. Foe.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Question; why aren't there any temples to Nef Teunis in Tyre, not even in the form of Neptune, Poseidon, or Dagon, when the Magi worshipped him as their king for all time?

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But throughout the Levant, there are still the ruins of Temples of Dagon, and records thereof, same for many Gods... but neither Poseidon nor Nef Teunis have any special connection with Tyre. No records from mythographers that the Tyrenians held Neptune in high regard, no tridents inscribed, unless I'm missing something.

We are aware of Tanfanna being in the Low Countries, but there is no indication of there being any special connection between Tyre and Neptune. The alleged hoaxers of the OLB really should have made Teunis have landed in OTL Carthage, Lol.

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Think, Abramelin.

Priesthoods of all times tend to destroy or take over the temples of their predecessors.

That there are temples left of some discarded deities, doesn't mean that of all deities that were once worshipped temples must have been preserved.

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But throughout the Levant, there are still the ruins of Temples of Dagon, and records thereof, same for many Gods... but neither Poseidon nor Nef Teunis have any special connection with Tyre. No records from mythographers that the Tyrenians held Neptune in high regard, no tridents inscribed, unless I'm missing something.

We are aware of Tanfanna being in the Low Countries, but there is no indication of there being any special connection between Tyre and Neptune. The alleged hoaxers of the OLB really should have made Teunis have landed in OTL Carthage, Lol.

They didn't name it after Neef Tunis, they named it after Tyr/Thor/Thyr and it's his temples they built as Heracles.

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They didn't name it after Neef Tunis, they named it after Tyr/Thor/Thyr and it's his temples they built as Heracles.

I'm aware of this, but they said they would eternally worship him as there king, and presumably they did as Neptune, but there is NO connection as far as I'm aware between Neptune/ Poseidon and Tyre. I just meant it would make more sense for the OLB's supposed hoaxers to have had Nef Teunis settle down in Carthage- AKA Tunisia. It would have also been funny, considering the theme of 'No, we didn't come from the East, the East came from us' found throughout the OLB, most notably through Friso.
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Think, Abramelin.

Priesthoods of all times tend to destroy or take over the temples of their predecessors.

That there are temples left of some discarded deities, doesn't mean that of all deities that were once worshipped temples must have been preserved.

It would actually be quite a boon to the OLB if some Archaeologist discovers a prominent Cult of Neptune in the OLB- certainly not known in the 19th century.

But we haven't. None record some connection between Tyre and Poseidon/ Neptune outside the OLB.

EDIT: Is this post not addressed to me, but Abe's 'fo' post? Last time I checked, I'm not a drunk old Dutchman.

Edited by flashman7870
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I'm aware of this, but they said they would eternally worship him as there king, and presumably they did as Neptune, but there is NO connection as far as I'm aware between Neptune/ Poseidon and Tyre. I just meant it would make more sense for the OLB's supposed hoaxers to have had Nef Teunis settle down in Carthage- AKA Tunisia. It would have also been funny, considering the theme of 'No, we didn't come from the East, the East came from us' found throughout the OLB, most notably through Friso.

It doesn't really matter whether you think they should have built a temple to Neptune in Tyre, it's not part of the details and it doesn't say they built one or planned on building one, Kings often didn't get temples, Gods did. Maybe once the Tyrians settled Carthage his eventual King to God worship made more of an impact there, with the area of Tyre already established in it's surroundings of other Canaanite Gods, then they have Thyr/Tyr/Heracles, seems they concentrated early on the Magyar wishes and blending in but a bit later on maybe Poseidon/Neptune came into his own with the more sea-going Carthaginians.

Sailing westward from there, we arrived at Soloeis, a Libyan promontory, covered with trees.

Here we dedicated a temple to Poseidon.

From Hanno's writings.

Edited by The Puzzler
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There is exactly 0 indication of any significant connection between Tyre and Neptune, no one identifies it as in origin, or mentions him as a King or Founder, nothing, zip, nada. It's odd, if nothing else.

And now, for something completely different....

ði wêt.king ðêra ðírjar broch algadur ðrvch ða strête ðêr vnder ðisse tida vppa ða râde sê uthlip.

The viking [sea-king] of the Tyrians brought them all through the strait which at that time ran out into the Râde Sê

I don't think that the Isthmus between Sinai and Egypt was open so recently....

EDIT: Spelling

Edited by flashman7870
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Part of Abramelin will see himself as a drunk old Dutchman.

Another part will not.

You guys have fun together.

Otharus, I really do want to hear what you have to say about stuff. I'm not just dismissing you or the OLB.
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ða ðâ svme vrbastere stêdjar rik wêron ðrvch vs fâra ænd ðrvch et sulver ðæt ða slâvona uta sulver.lôna wnnon ðâ gvngon hja buta vppa hellinga jefta inda dêla hêma.

But when some degenerate citizens became rich through our sailing, and through the silver that the slaves won from the Silverlands, they then went out to live on the slopes or in the valleys.

What are the Silverlands? Lauriom?

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Also, on Vampyra; it meaning 'blood sucker' as some proposed in the old thread (Pyra=Pier=Worm, therfore leach (still no identification of Vam/ Uam), though Abramelin pointed out it specifically means a species of Martitime worm, making it seem likely that it derives from the actual word Pier) is made even more dubious by the fact that other words are seen within the OLB reffering to bloodsuckers (additionalyl that the Vampires were described as living in 'Kaerka' and graveyards)

fol blodsûgar pogga ænd feniniga snâka. hwêr in nên mænnisk fon herde sêdum sin fot navt wâga ne mêi.

full (of) bloodsuckers, toads and venomous snakes wherein no person of strict morals may dare (to set) his foot.

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But now, I ask you; what is YOUR overwhelming evidence that the OLB isn't a Nationalist Fantasy?

Analogy:

If there is no convincing evidence that someone was murdered, it makes no sense to prove that he wasn't.

If you believe that OLB is fake, that means Over de Linden (and witnesses who had heard of it before the 1850s, all) must have lied.

I say he (they) can only be accused of that if there is good evidence for it.

There isn't.

Try to explain why modern techniques (supposedly) can't date the paper.

The answer is simple IMO:

Because the 'researchers' don't even allow for the possibility that it's older than 19th century after all.

Why?

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... Ancient Greek is Kekrops. ... when the OLB authors looked in their sources, they saw it spelled 'Cecrops', and, not knowing it was a hard C, spelled it 'Sekrops'.

Why is C sometimes pronounced S (when followed by e, i, y), sometimes as K? (And again different in CH?)

Maybe the people always said Syklope and Sékrops, or else when did they start to do this?

I don't know much of Greek and Latin Kaballah, but what I understand is that letters (and thus words) had numerical values.

Trained people imediately see those values and possible hidden meanings.

Perhaps Sékrops wanted his name to be spelled KEKROPS, to get a better kabbalistic value, while that didn't stop the people from saying SÉKROPS.

Similar thing may be the case with Cyclope.

We should be humble and accept there is very much we simple don't know yet.

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With Cecrops, his name is not Greek according to Strabo. The Greek language took on this name, so the Greek variation of his name is probably not the original spelling, or pronunciation.

Edited by The Puzzler
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Also, on Vampyra; it meaning 'blood sucker' as some proposed in the old thread (Pyra=Pier=Worm, therfore leach (still no identification of Vam/ Uam), though Abramelin pointed out it specifically means a species of Martitime worm, making it seem likely that it derives from the actual word Pier) is made even more dubious by the fact that other words are seen within the OLB reffering to bloodsuckers (additionalyl that the Vampires were described as living in 'Kaerka' and graveyards)

fol blodsûgar pogga ænd feniniga snâka. hwêr in nên mænnisk fon herde sêdum sin fot navt wâga ne mêi.

full (of) bloodsuckers, toads and venomous snakes wherein no person of strict morals may dare (to set) his foot.

Vam-Pyra

Vam: Wam: Buik: Womb cut open

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/wam1

Pyra: Pieren: Nachtbraken: make a night of it

http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M053491

Where?

In the graveyards at night, where they took dead bodies to cut the whomb open for the intestines to use for whatever purpose they thaught it could be useful.

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Vam-Pyra

Vam: Wam: Buik: Womb cut open

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/wam1

Pyra: Pieren: Nachtbraken: make a night of it

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=M053491

Where?

In the graveyards at night, where they took dead bodies to cut the whomb open for the intestines to use for whatever purpose they thaught it could be useful.

And now please a quote from the OLB, the part about the "vampyra". You'll see it matches the 19th century and modern idea of a vampire.

Read it in its context:

FROM MINNO’S WRITINGS.

Nêan andere Hellênia, hi helpt my hügja that er en slach fon maenniska ovir hirtha omme dwâlth, thêr evin lik hi in kaerka aend hola hêma, thêr an tjuster frota, tach navt as hi, vmb vs fon mûsa aend ôra plaega to helpane, men renka to forsinna, tha ôra maenniska hjara witskip to râwane, til thju hja tham to bêtre müge fâta vmber slavona fon to mâkjande aend hjara blod ut to sûgane, even as vampyra dva.

No, answered Hellenia; he reminds me that there is a kind of people that dwell on earth who, like him, have their homes in dungeons and holes, who rout around in the twilight, not, like him, to deliver us from mice and other plagues, but to invent tricks to steal away the knowledge of other people, in order to take advantage of them, to make slaves of them, and to suck their blood like vampires do.

As far as I know, leeches do not make slaves and do not steal knowledge and do not live in dungeons and holes.

And, btw, PIER/PYR (as a respons to other posts) is not the Frisian word for worm. That's WERM.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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If a long old text is discovered, there will most likely be words that are proven to be much older than was known.

And even today, there will be words that have existed a long time (in spoken form), though a written source of them might not be noted yet.

Abramelin seems to think that if a word can't be found in a dictionary or on the web, it doesn't exist.

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As far as I know, leeches do not make slaves and do not steal knowledge and do not live in dungeons and holes.

It only says that they suck blood.

aend hjara blod ut to sûgane, even as vampyra dva

Good find Van Gorp.

It could also just be wam-pier = buik-worm (belly-worm), that could be in this case a worm with a 'belly', a thick fat worm, in contrast to the regular slim worms:

266px-Leech_blutegel.jpg

266px-Lumbricus_terrestris_01_by-dpc.jpg

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Analogy:

If there is no convincing evidence that someone was murdered, it makes no sense to prove that he wasn't.

If you believe that OLB is fake, that means Over de Linden (and witnesses who had heard of it before the 1850s, all) must have lied.

I say he (they) can only be accused of that if there is good evidence for it.

There isn't.

Try to explain why modern techniques (supposedly) can't date the paper.

The answer is simple IMO:

Because the 'researchers' don't even allow for the possibility that it's older than 19th century after all.

Why?

If a long old text is discovered, there will most likely be words that are proven to be much older than was known.

And even today, there will be words that have existed a long time (in spoken form), though a written source of them might not be noted yet.

Abramelin seems to think that if a word can't be found in a dictionary or on the web, it doesn't exist.

Well that's just dandy and fine, but until you actually prove it, it's irrelevant. "We may find something to explain this later" isn't really a strong argument for authenticity.

To use your analogy about a crime scene;

There are witnesses. "No one will believe it, they would roar with laughter"

There are suspicious circumstances. Pre-numbered pages in de Linden's house, a use of commas in a peculiar way also used by de Linden.

There are indications of conspiracy. One of the correspondances between Halbertsma and his brother tells us that Halbertsma's brother burned his letters as he requested.

And there's a 'contradiction of story'. We have one story, told to us by the overwhelming majority of linguists, historians and archaeologists. And another told to us by the suspects and there proponents.

And we have 'finger prints'. We are told by the majority of evidence that certain words did not come about till a certain point- and yet we find there prints all over the book.

You have NO doubts about the authenticity of the OLB. I doubt my position every other week.

And this is Scholarship/ Science, NOTa court. You are guilty till proven innocent. You are not supplied a public defender. The Burden of Proof rests on YOUR shoulders- and it's crushing you.

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