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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


Abramelin
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Why is C sometimes pronounced S (when followed by e, i, y), sometimes as K? (And again different in CH?)

Maybe the people always said Syklope and Sékrops, or else when did they start to do this?

I don't know much of Greek and Latin Kaballah, but what I understand is that letters (and thus words) had numerical values.

Trained people imediately see those values and possible hidden meanings.

Perhaps Sékrops wanted his name to be spelled KEKROPS, to get a better kabbalistic value, while that didn't stop the people from saying SÉKROPS.

Similar thing may be the case with Cyclope.

We should be humble and accept there is very much we simple don't know yet.

Because other languages have soft cs, and read it as such.
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And now please a quote from the OLB, the part about the "vampyra". You'll see it matches the 19th century and modern idea of a vampire.

Read it in its context:

FROM MINNO’S WRITINGS.

Nêan andere Hellênia, hi helpt my hügja that er en slach fon maenniska ovir hirtha omme dwâlth, thêr evin lik hi in kaerka aend hola hêma, thêr an tjuster frota, tach navt as hi, vmb vs fon mûsa aend ôra plaega to helpane, men renka to forsinna, tha ôra maenniska hjara witskip to râwane, til thju hja tham to bêtre müge fâta vmber slavona fon to mâkjande aend hjara blod ut to sûgane, even as vampyra dva.

No, answered Hellenia; he reminds me that there is a kind of people that dwell on earth who, like him, have their homes in dungeons and holes, who rout around in the twilight, not, like him, to deliver us from mice and other plagues, but to invent tricks to steal away the knowledge of other people, in order to take advantage of them, to make slaves of them, and to suck their blood like vampires do.

As far as I know, leeches do not make slaves and do not steal knowledge and do not live in dungeons and holes.

And, btw, PIER/PYR (as a respons to other posts) is not the Frisian word for worm. That's WERM.

.

Dungeons, or churches. Both very good fits for a quintessential 19th century vampire.
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It only says that they suck blood.

aend hjara blod ut to sûgane, even as vampyra dva

Good find Van Gorp.

It could also just be wam-pier = buik-worm (belly-worm), that could be in this case a worm with a 'belly', a thick fat worm, in contrast to the regular slim worms:

266px-Leech_blutegel.jpg

266px-Lumbricus_terrestris_01_by-dpc.jpg

Only problem is that the earliesxt references to UPYR's, not Vampires, doesn't discuss blood sucking.
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Because other languages have soft cs, and read it as such.

As said, Cecrops is not even a Greek name so they have adapted it to their language at the time, it's no reason to doubt the OLB authenticity because of his name, you can check that one off your list.

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There are witnesses. "No one will believe it, they would roar with laughter"

If you would have re-read the whole thread - and not only your own posts - you should know this is nonsense,

as I wrote on 24 November 2011:

"Also, as I have pointed out several times before, the story of Floris was out of the THIRD hand, written down a century after it was supposed to have happened.

Floris stayed with his grandfather in the summer of 1869. Two years earlier, in 1867, Verwijs was already writing to state officials about the manuscript (being ca. 200 pages)."

There are suspicious circumstances. Pre-numbered pages in de Linden's house, a use of commas in a peculiar way also used by de Linden.

There are plausible explanations for that.

OdL or one of his forefathers may have wanted to make the book complete again.

Also, these pages were 'discovered' long after the OdL had died. Someone else may have added them later.

We don't know if that use of commas is all that peculiar. I remember having seen that more often in 18th century notary documents.

There are indications of conspiracy. One of the correspondances between Halbertsma and his brother tells us that Halbertsma's brother burned his letters as he requested.

People have many reasons to get rid of old letters.

I have seen better conspiracy theories than that.

... You are guilty till proven innocent. ...

In nowaday USA maybe.

Not here in Europe.

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In nowaday USA maybe.

Not here in Europe.

You obviously understand neither scholarship nor science. It is NOT a criminal court case, you are NOT assumed innocent till proven guilty. It's been that way for a long time.

Edited by flashman7870
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You are guilty till proven innocent. You are not supplied a public defender. The Burden of Proof rests on YOUR shoulders- and it's crushing you.

Who were you addressing here?

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And this is Scholarship/ Science, NOT a court. You are guilty till proven innocent. You are not supplied a public defender.

Ofcourse it's not a court, but you use the term "guilty".

Guilty of what?

... of lying?

... of presenting a fake manuscript as being authentic?

Is it ethical to label someone a liar, when your only 'evidence' is, that you can't imagine he is telling the truth?

My position is that I feel bad about Over de Linden having been falsy accused of lying, as I believe in his innocence.

The alleged (obvious?) 'evidence' against him has not convinced me (nor has it many others).

In that sense I am indeed his "public defender".

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Who were you addressing here?

Not you, lol. Just people in general, you are obviously not a hoaxer. But, the burden of proof does still rest on you considering you are making claims to its veracity, and ole' ODL is no longer alive.
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Put aside if you are right, do you believe this is how it should be?

In academia? Yes, wholeheartedly. Scrutiny, skepticsm, even harsh criticism should be welcomed by the proponents of any theory, so long as those who do it don't resort to ad homs or other such fallacies to prove there points.
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Why is it still called Mediterranean (from medius, "middle" and terra, "land") today?

Because it was in the middle of the Roman Empire and the Fertile Crescent. To the Fryas it logically should have been the Zuider Sea or somesuch. IDK what the correct word for south would be- do you have any online Frisian Dictionaries in English?
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Ofcourse it's not a court, but you use the term "guilty".

Guilty of what?

... of lying?

... of presenting a fake manuscript as being authentic?

Is it ethical to label someone a liar, when your only 'evidence' is, that you can't imagine he is telling the truth?

My position is that I feel bad about Over de Linden having been falsy accused of lying, as I believe in his innocence.

The alleged (obvious?) 'evidence' against him has not convinced me (nor has it many others).

In that sense I am indeed his "public defender".

Well, you're not a *public* defender in that you chose to defend him (semantical smiley face)

The manuscript itself is more of the guilty one here, but the court metaphor is imperfect, because the situation and academia in general is just so different.

I and others supplied plenty of evidence. You remaining unconvinced is not an argument towards it's authenticity.

Maybe ODL is innocent. Maybe he was duped, by Haverschmidt, or Halbertsma, or Staderman. Maybe he wrote it, but deluded himself into thinking it was true, maybe he recorded local folk tales and faked a manuscript to give it authenticity. Or maybe it's all true. But I have my doubts. It flies in the face of so many other researchers- that of course doesn't make it wrong, but makes it seem so much more unlikely.

But always remember this, Otharus; I can be convinced. Show me archaeology that could not have been known to the authors. Show me evidence that towards the end of the bronze age one could sail from Greece to Kashmyr. Show me a ringwall burcht with longhouses like the spokes of a wheel dating to ancient times. Show me a manuscript or a rune stone with Jol Script. And I will become a fervent supporter.

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On your thing about Verwijs sending letters to state officials about the book; interesting. I don't recall that, but it is a 700 something page thread, in my defense. Could you link to that post?

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straff. Deres legemer ble belesset med glitter og stas, men deres kister, skap og skur var tomme.

krek hondred jêr eftere dêi ðatet forma skip mið liftochta fona kâd fâren was. kêm ermode ænd lok ðrvch ða anderna binna. honger sprêde sina wjvka and strêk vppet land del. twispalt hlip stolte inovere strêta ænd forð to ða hûsa in. ljafde ne kv nên stek lônger navt finda ænd êndracht run êwêi. ðat bærn wilde êta fon sina mæm ænd ðju mæm hêde wel sírhêdon ða nên êta. ða wiva kêmon to hjara manna. ðissa gvngon nêi ða grêva ða grêva nêdon selva nawet of hildont skul.

Precisely (one) hundred years after the day that the first ship with life-necessities had sailed from the coast, poverty and shortage came in through the windows [c. 600 BC]. Hunger spread its wings and fell down over the land. Dispute went proudly through the streets and forth into the houses. Love could not longer find any place, and unity went away. The child wanted (to) eat from its mum, and the mum had indeed ornamentss, but no food. The wives came to their men, these went to the grafs, the grafs had nothing themselves or kept it hidden.

Is there any evidence of famine in Denmark around this date?

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So... Abramelin... created in account in 2011... which he barely used... until 2014, for the sole purpose of blitzing this thread?!

How in the name of Christ have you come to the conclusion that I am Abramelin?

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Puzz or van Gorp, could you talk some sense into Otharus? IDK what I've done to gain his scorn, or how he confuses a 15 year old American with a 60 something (I would imagine) drunken Dutchman.

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aser twa spêke jefða 2000 jêr del trûled het. sâ skilun ða svna vpstonda ðer ða forsta ænd prestera ðrvch hordom bit folk têled hæve ænd tojenst hjara tâta tjugha. ði alle skilun ðrvch mort swika. Men hwat hja kêð hæve skil forð bilíwa ænd frûchdber werða in84.a bosma ðêra kloke mænniska. alsa lik gode sêdum ðêr del lêid wrde in ðinra skât.

When there has trundled down two spokes, or 2000 years

[c. 193 BC], then the sons shall stand up whom the princes and priests have bred through whoredom with the people, and testify against their dads. They shall all succumb through murder; but what they have spoken shall further remain and be fruitful in the 84 bosoms of the sensible persons, as like good morals [seeds] which are laid down in thy lap.

So is each spoke of the Jol wheel is equivalent to a thousand years?

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I'm honestly perplexed why you think I'm Abe, Otharus, and why my asking for an online Frisian Dictionary is grounds for proving it as such.

I post at totally different times from Abe...

Was he playing a 'long con' by creating an alt he didn't use when the old thread was still active? But did use it to post totally different things?

I don't get what I've done to deserve being ignored. The majority of my time posting, after you asked me for evidence, I happily supplied it... and yet you would only nitpick the details in a few of them, and refuse to address the 'meat' of the posts, or most of the actual posts... have I angered you by bringing up points you can't refute? I can't imagine any other reason for you blocking me. Maybe that's the lack of imagination you were talking about

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Interesting new book, to be published next april:

How The Modern World Arose From The North Sea

By Michael Pye

Two fragments from article about this book:

... those Vikings, the Frisians before them and the Hanseatic merchants after them invented for themselves the conditions for modernity: international trade, money, credit, mathematics, law, the stock exchange, pensions and much else.

Mr Pye asks his readers to imagine a time before fixed national borders, when identity was not so much a matter of race, but of "where you were and where you last came from". The sea was a thoroughfare, quicker than rutted roads. It made it easy for "Scandinavians to be in York, Frisians in Ipswich, Saxons in London".

...

A central theme of this book is the re-invention of money and its role in the development of abstract, scientific and, eventually, secular thought. As a sea-trading people, the Frisians needed portable cash, not the gold and treasure of chiefs and kings, often hoarded and inert. They began minting silver coins, as a currency, an exchange.

Value became an idea, detached from the intrinsic nature of a thing. It could be calculated for different categories of goods, and more than that, it could be written down, arithmetically juggled, turned into ratios and equations. A new way of thinking was born, transactional and everyday, and yet with momentous philosophical implications.

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Looks good. Ever since playing Europa Universallis III, I've been interested in the Hansa and the trade through the Baltic/ North Sea region

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I'm honestly perplexed why you think I'm Abe, Otharus, and why my asking for an online Frisian Dictionary is grounds for proving it as such.

I post at totally different times from Abe...

Was he playing a 'long con' by creating an alt he didn't use when the old thread was still active? But did use it to post totally different things?

I don't get what I've done to deserve being ignored. The majority of my time posting, after you asked me for evidence, I happily supplied it... and yet you would only nitpick the details in a few of them, and refuse to address the 'meat' of the posts, or most of the actual posts... have I angered you by bringing up points you can't refute? I can't imagine any other reason for you blocking me. Maybe that's the lack of imagination you were talking about

I like your participation and I can tell you're not Abe. O, this is NOT Abe.

Don't worry, carry on, this is a very sensitive topic, we all get over it and come back, we love it too much to leave...

I actually want to reply to a few of your posts but I'm a bit time poor at the moment.

This is a good dictionary imo, it has English in the explanations: http://www.koeblerge...rieswbhinw.html

Edited by The Puzzler
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