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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


Abramelin

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And I am not 'wheeping', but I know you want me off this thread, and so you keep tempting me to explode and finally get banned.

You and Alewyn are the ones who always get personal. For the two of you the OLB is like the Bible.

Not to me.

OK, it contains an interesting philosophy which wouldn't be bad at all if we all adopted it, but so do Tolkiens books.

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I know you asked, but when I say I posted a general answer to your tomes in my week of absense, you say it is a bs reason.

Learn to read (or get sober first if you are not).

I said the excuse "that the thread would explode" if you would answer to my posts, is BS.

Nothing personal about that.

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For the two of you the OLB is like the Bible.

To me it is indeed an interesting and inspiring old collection of texts.

I'm only interested in truth and reason.

So get your act together.

I'm back in town and ready for action.

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Learn to read (or get sober first if you are not).

I said the excuse "that the thread would explode" if you would answer to my posts, is BS.

Nothing personal about that.

I was absent for a week, and you posted a lot.

So, instead of NOT answering, I answered with a general post.

I respected what you posted, and I answered to it. Maybe not to your liking but that is your problem.

Can we get on, or do you like to comment on my hairstyle too first?

+++++

EDIT:

For the innocent unlookers: we both are having a bit of Dutch style fun.

p***ing off eachother is a great tradition here. And afterwards we drink a beer, slap eachother at the shoulders, and continue with our own business.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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For the innocent unlookers: we both are having a bit of Dutch style fun.

p***ing off eachother is a great tradition here. And afterwards we drink a beer, slap eachother at the shoulders, and continue with our own business.

:lol: i missed you too bro.

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Glad to hear.

Amercans truelly hate HATE that.

Americans.

Edited by Abramelin
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I have not the faintest clue why I said that, but it was too late to edit.

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I have not the faintest clue why I said that, but it was too late to edit.

lol never mind.

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About that style of handwriting, in the same article from 1993 I quoted from - Ottema having prevented a couple of sheets of the OLB to be exhibited - there's also this:

Er bestaat ook een rapport waarin de grafoloog C.J. Böttcher - die in de jaren '50 deze pseudo-wetenschap in Leiden doceerde, zie ook deze Skepter - Halbertsma als de auteur aanwijst.

There also exists a report in which graphologist C.J. Böttcher - who taught this pseudeo science in Leiden during the 50s - points to Halbertsma as the author.

http://www.skepsis.nl/oeralinda.html

I suppose this Böttcher based all that on the tildes used in the OLB - something Halbertsma used to add to his own writings - plus those letters of the run script.

Menno Knul has put Van der Meij's book online:

Kanttekeningen bij het

OERA LINDA BOEK

Een afspiegeling van de taalgeleerdheid, denkbeelden en schrijfstijl van dr. J.H. Halbertsma, doopsgezind predikant in Deventer.

Mr. G.J. van der Meij

Leeuwarden, 1978

http://rodinbook.nl/olbmeijinhoud.html

Observations on the

OERA LINDA BOOK

A reflection of the linguistic scholorship, ideas and writing style of Dr. JH Halbertsma, Baptist minister in Deventer.

And the last chapter is this graphological analysis by Böttcher. I am glad to say it is not the kind of 'graphological analysis' that was once used to analyze a person's character. Böttcher compared letters and expressions, omissions and additions, typical mistakes, type of corrections, and so on from both the OLB and Halbertsma writings.

Alas no photos from the book of examples of all this have been added, and the text has most likely been copied using OCR (Optical Character Recognition) software so the online copy still contains a lot of spelling errors (especially in the final chapter with the interesting graphological analysis).

And, it's all in Dutch.....

+++++

EDIT:

I should add that Knul added "in bewerking" ( = in progress) on top of every page.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Posted by Alewyn 03 December 2011 - 12:50 PM

http://www.unexplain...50#entry4133460

Herewith my translation of an article on the Oera Linda Book on the Dutch website Semafoor.net of the academic study group, SEM.

SEM is an acronym for “Studiekring Eerste Millennium” (“Study Circle First Millennium”) and has as its aim a renewed investigation into the first millennium history of the Low Countries between the Somme River in Northern France and the Elbe River in Northern Germany for the period 100 BC to 1200 AD.

http://www.semafoor....ralindaboek.htm

(It is noticeable, in my opinion, how dissenting views are ignored, denied, suppressed or ridiculed but, the reader can judge for him/herself. Please also note some additional "suspects" who could have created the OLB)

The Oera Linda Book - A game with almost no end

...

Today at the archive where the Original Manuscript is treasured, I found some great sources that are not online and not yet discussed here. I will start with some publications in Semafoor (2005-2006).

The article that Alewyn translated (published in Semafoor feb. '05) had an appendix (a letter dated 14-3-1996 by Wigholt Vleer), which is not included on the SEM website.

It contains some very interesting information.

For now I will add a scan, so those who read Dutch can study it already.

Translation will come later, by me or anyone else who feels like doing it.

Much more to come.

vleer1.jpg

vleer2.jpg

Abe, do you have software that can change scanned text into a txt-file?

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Abe, do you have software that can change scanned text into a txt-file?

Man, I would sacrifice a finger to get that kind of software.

If you go to the "Help" forum on the index page, then look for a thread called "OCR". I did ask if anyone knew about reliable software, but I got nothing I could use.

I did find something free and online, but it created gibberish most of the times, and I uninstalled it.

And if you go search for it yourself, use "Optical Character Recognition" or "OCR", but beware: many sites offering you OCR software are infested with virusses.

But Knul is the person to ask: it's very obvious he has used OCR to put Van der Meij's book online. It has all the typos you would expect using that kind of software (btw: as you know I worked in a printing room, and we used OCR software, but that software costs a lot, and is not online, and certainly not for free).

+++++++++

EDIT:

You know about Googlebooks or Booksgoogle. Many times they post scans of old books online, and then you have an option to read it in "plain text".

Maybe you can try to ask Google. I did, but never got an answer.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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In regards to a post I made in the Trojans Basques thread, I wanted to add it here, I thought I was in this thread and it's OLB relative. A reply to Abe in that thread because wr as man = man older (old man), Abe said it's not a good word order, I agree.

Hmm. How about the variation of TRUE. The second WER here - wêr. It might equate to TRUE ELDER or something TRUE OLD ONE... (like the only true God type thing)

*we-r

, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Mann; ne. man; Vw.: s. -jeld; Hw.: vgl. got. waír, an.

verr (1), ae. wer (1), as. wer* (1), ahd. wer* (2); E.: germ. *wera-, *weraz, st. M.

(a), Mann; idg. *øÂros, Adj., M., kräftig, Mann, Pokorny 1177; s. idg. *øei- (3),

*øeØý-, *øÆ-, V., gehen, erstreben, ersehnen, erjagen, wollen (V.), kräftig sein (V.),

Pokorny 1123; L.: Hh 127a, Rh 1136a

wÐr

* 12, afries., Adj.: nhd. wahr, wahrheitsgetreu, wirklich, gültig; ne. true,

truthful; Vw.: s. -haf-t-e-lik, -haf-t-ich, -haf-t-ic-hê-d, -hê-d, -lik, -lÆk-man-n; Hw.:

vgl. got. *wÐreis, an. vÏrr (2), ae. wÚr (3), as. hwõr*, wõr* (1), ahd. wõr* (1); Q.:

R, H, W, E, B; E.: germ. *wÐra-, *wÐraz, *wÚra-, *wÚraz, *wÐrja-, *wÐrjaz,

*wÚrja-, *wÚrjaz, Adj., zuverlässig, wahr, freundlich; idg. *øeræs-, Adj., freundlich,

vertrauenswert, wahr, Pokorny 1165; s. idg. *øer- (11), *øerý-, Sb., Freundlichkeit,

Pokorny 1165; W.: nfries. wier, Adj., wahr, wirklich; W.: saterl. wer, Adj., wahr,

wirklich; W.: nnordfries. wer, Adj., wahr, wirklich; L.: Hh 127b, Rh 1135b; R.: at

wÐr-a, afries., Adv.: nhd. fürwahr; ne. indeed, truly; L.: Hh 151b

Edited by The Puzzler
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Yes, but I assumed the -alda part of wr_alda meant 'old' originally, and then you would get a construction like "Man Old", instead of "Old Man".

But apparently -alda meant a bit more than just 'old':

world

O.E. woruld, worold "human existence, the affairs of life," also "the human race, mankind," a word peculiar to Germanic languages (cf. O.S. werold, O.Fris. warld, Du. wereld, O.N. verold, O.H.G. weralt, Ger. Welt), with a literal sense of "age of man," from P.Gmc. *wer "man" (O.E. wer, still in werewolf; see virile) + *ald "age" (see old).

Originally "life on earth, this world (as opposed to the afterlife)," sense extended to "the known world," then to "the physical world in the broadest sense, the universe" (c.1200). In O.E. gospels, the commonest word for "the physical world," was Middangeard (O.N. Midgard), lit. "the middle enclosure" (cf. yard), which is rooted in Germanic cosmology. Greek kosmos in its ecclesiastical sense of "world of people" sometimes was rendered in Gothic as manaseþs, lit. "seed of man."

The usual O.N. word was heimr, lit. "abode" (see home). Words for "world" in some other I.E. languages derive from the root for "bottom, foundation" (cf. Ir. domun, O.C.S. duno, related to English deep); the Lithuanian word is pasaulis, from pa- "under" + saule "sun.

So wralda is something like 'life/age of man'., 'the world'.

Samengesteld uit *wera- ‘man’, zie → weerwolf, en *aldi- ‘ouderdom, leeftijd’, waaruit: ofri. elde, ield(e) (nfri. jeld); oe. ield; on. öld; got. alds waarnaast os. eldi; oe. ielde; on. aldir ‘mensen’ (men, people), bij het bn. → oud. De betekenis ontwikkelde zich dus van ‘mensenleeftijd (age of men), mensenleven’ tot ‘aarde, wereld (waarop we leven, in tegenstelling tot het hiernamaals)’ en ‘periode, eeuwigheid’.

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/wereld

But 'wralda' (not only Wr_alda) is also used in the OLB, and it indeed means 'world':

IN THE YEAR ONE THOUSAND AND FIVE AFTER ATLAND WAS SUBMERGED, THIS WAS INSCRIBED ON THE EASTERN WALL OF FRYASBURGT.

(...)

Vmbe-r to fensane hêder fêle skaeta mith brocht, boppa ella fâmne syrhêdum, alsa thêr in wralda navt skênener mâkad wrde.

My translation into Dutch:

Om er te 'vangen' had er vele schatten mee gebracht, boven al vrouwen-sieraden, als d'r in de wereld nooit schoner gemaakt werden

Sandbach's translation:

For this purpose he had brought great treasures with him, above all, jewels for women more beautiful than had ever been seen before.

My translation into Engish (using my Dutch translation):

To 'catch' her he had brought many treasures with him, above all jewels for women, like none were ever made more beautiful in the world.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bd

As you can see, Sandbach cleverly worked his way around this 'wralda'.

(And I hope you also noticed how Sandbach translated "syrhêdum"... jewels. You will remember our discussion about Kalta/Syrhêd).

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Sure, that fits the etymology. I won't deny the word wralda means world, but how did it become world - in Germanic only - why doesn't Old Frisian below in example, start with WER like the rest - it doesn't actually, it starts with WAR.

world dictionary.gif O.E. woruld, worold "human existence, the affairs of life," also "the human race, mankind," a word peculiar to Germanic languages (cf. O.S. werold, O.Fris. warld, Du. wereld, O.N. verold, O.H.G. weralt, Ger. Welt), with a literal sense of "age of man," from P.Gmc. *wer "man" (O.E. wer, still in werewolf; see virile) + *ald "age" (see old).

wer-ald (man-age)

That was in the Frisian dictionary wer as man.

Note *proto-Germanic as wer which is plainly in the Frisian Dictionary as such.

What I find interesting in that etymology explanation is that in Old Frisian it's WARLD - so how is that made up - war-ld = war+old - there is an r that seems to distrupt the make up of alda - so seems a distinct war in this one, w'r= war? rather than wer

war can equal WATCH in the Frisian dictionary ie; waraburcht etc - wara=keeper - so WARLD imo can only be made up of war-alda - not WERalda - the Watchers is a common mysterious name in old texts and the Bible, who were the Watchers? People of Wralda - the old watchkeeper - the time even, Chronus, Saturn... just thinking of all options. Frya is at a watch star, so the watching is not that unusual to have included in it imo.

*

war, afries., st. M. (a?): nhd. Obhut, Acht (F.) (2); ne. watch

Edited by The Puzzler
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Both 'warld' and 'wrald' are used in Old Frisian:

war-l-d 34, wr-al-d, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Welt; ne. world; Hw.: vgl. an. ver‡ld, ae.

weorold, anfrk. werold, as. werold*, ahd. weralt*; Q.: R, W, E, H; E.: germ.

*weraldi-, *weraldiz, st. F. (i), Zeitalter, Menschen?; vgl. idg. *øÂros, Adj., M.,

kräftig, Mann, Pokorny 1177; idg. idg. *al- (2), *h2el-, V., wachsen (V.) (1),

nähren, Pokorny 26; W.: nfries. wrâld, wrâd, wraud; W.: saterl. wareld; W.:

nnordfries. wrald, wrâl; L.: Hh 124b, Hh 181, Rh 1160a.

afries = old Frisian

nfries = new Frisian

saterl = Saterlands (a Frisian dialect in Germany)

nnordfries = new north Frisian

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-W.pdf

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Both 'warld' and 'wrald' are used in Old Frisian:

war-l-d 34, wr-al-d, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Welt; ne. world; Hw.: vgl. an. ver‡ld, ae.

weorold, anfrk. werold, as. werold*, ahd. weralt*; Q.: R, W, E, H; E.: germ.

*weraldi-, *weraldiz, st. F. (i), Zeitalter, Menschen?; vgl. idg. *øÂros, Adj., M.,

kräftig, Mann, Pokorny 1177; idg. idg. *al- (2), *h2el-, V., wachsen (V.) (1),

nähren, Pokorny 26; W.: nfries. wrâld, wrâd, wraud; W.: saterl. wareld; W.:

nnordfries. wrald, wrâl; L.: Hh 124b, Hh 181, Rh 1160a.

afries = old Frisian

nfries = new Frisian

saterl = Saterlands (a Frisian dialect in Germany)

nnordfries = new north Frisian

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-W.pdf

Yes, I know - the point is, read my post again, in the etymology Old Frisian is the only one to have WARLD, an A, war - instead of an E - wer.

Right.

So, the original etymology might not come from a companion to Latin VIRile - wer BUT Old Frisian WAR, which could be watch.

A kind of timekeeper but also someone who is the world and watches over us.

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Today and tomorrow, midsummer is celebrated in the Frisian village where I live since january.

Of all possible objects, what do you think is used for decoration of the street?

The wheel!

midsimmerwiel2.jpg

(photos made 1 hour ago)

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Cool! Painted bicycle wheels and I even see Stars of David. That must be a house owned by one of the Golar, lol.

Nice compostion, btw, You could sell it as a postcard.

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Yes, I know - the point is, read my post again, in the etymology Old Frisian is the only one to have WARLD, an A, war - instead of an E - wer.

Right.

So, the original etymology might not come from a companion to Latin VIRile - wer BUT Old Frisian WAR, which could be watch.

A kind of timekeeper but also someone who is the world and watches over us.

I understand, and that is why I said that 'wrald' is also used in Old Frisian, and even in modern Frisian.

In old Frisian both forms appear to have been used side by side as the link to the pdf showed.

And then again, the 'wralda' in that sentence I showed you really means 'world', although Sandbach left it out in his translation (I haven't checked Ottema's translation yet).

But ok, so Wr_alda could mean many things: Overly Old, The World, Timekeeper, and something like a(n Eternal) Guardian ("wera" = to defend).

.

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Cool! Painted bicycle wheels and I even see Stars of David.

Thanks.

Within that Star of David, did you notice a sun with 6 rays?

That is like the JOL, but then with the spokes moved to the outside.

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Article in Leeuwarder Courant of 29-8-1959 by Wigholt Vleer, about Over de Linden Genealogy.

Translation and comments later.

vleer1959_1.jpg

vleer1959_2.jpg

vleer1959_3.jpg

Edited by Otharus
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Article in Leeuwarder Courant of 29-8-1959 by Wigholt Vleer, about Over de Linden Genealogy.

Translation and comments later.

vleer1959_1.jpg

vleer1959_2.jpg

vleer1959_3.jpg

I thought I already did that:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=7950#entry4125681

But alas, I remember wanting to translate the Steggerda article, and just now by reading your post I assumed I already did.

Well, I am glad you are going to do it because lately I am having bit of 'translation fatigue', lol.

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OK, I t have translated the few lines from the old post in that link:

Het geslacht OVER DE LINDEN kwam uit Steggerda

Ofschoon we met het genealogisch onderzoek nog niet veel verder gekomen komen zijn en de stamvader in Steggerda nog niet eens vaststaat is nu wel bewezen dat de familie uit Steggerda kwam en de naam dankt aan de rivier de Linde.

Het Oera-Linda-mysterie is hiermede voorgoed een familie Over de Linden-zaak geworden al is het spijtig voor dit geslacht dat van een duizenden jaren oude adellijke afstamming uit de Oera-Linda-oorden geen sprake kan zijn want adel en bezit viel in Steggerda niet te ontdekken.

Translation:

The Over de Linden family came from Steggerda

Although we have not progressed much with the genealogical research, and the ancestor in Steggerda has not even been established, it has been proven by now that the family came from Steggerda and was named after the river the Linde.

Herewith the Oera-Linda-mystery has become a family Over de Linden case for good, although it is regrettable for this family/lineage that a thousands of years old noble descent from the Oera-Linda-oorden is out of the question because nobility and property were undetectable in Steggerda.

(I don't know how to translate -oorden in proper English, but it is a wellknown word from the OLB)

.

Edited by Abramelin
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