Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Abramelin]

Komrij!

Man, because you mentioned his name I found out he died 2 days ago !!

No, not Komrij.... you, lol.

Nevermind. It was just a remark made by TheHangedMan that made me think you had 'reincarnated' here.

[Abramelin]

Hello, this forum is a good, people!

Van Gorp, I agree.

Thank all posters for taking part in this challenge of the mind.

I will be busy reading for a while.

Btw, TheHangedMan, nice blog.

Good idea: photo copies of every page of the original MS, plus transliteration.

[Otharus]

No, not Komrij.... you, lol.

Me reincarnated?

But I'm not dead yet!

It was just a remark made by TheHangedMan that made me think you had 'reincarnated' here.

I helped her with subscribing and posting.

The name and photo were my idea.

So, I hereby introduce HM.

Treat her like a sister.

[Abramelin]

Me reincarnated?

But I'm not dead yet!

I helped her with subscribing and posting.

The name and photo were my idea.

So, I hereby introduce HM.

Treat her like a sister.

I will.

Btw, concerning her username and avatar (Ottema) :

They were all a depressed lot:

Willem van Haren committed suicide by poisoning.

Ottema hanged himself.

Halbertsma died alone and very depressed, almost living like a hermit during the last years of his life.

Haverschmidt hanged himself.

.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Ottema hanged himself

I wonder how his wife died, in the early morning of Christmas day 1851, at the age of only 45.

May their souls have found peace.

Old thread #11277 - Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:22 PM

The wife of Dr. Ottema, Sara van Heukelom (born Leiden 1805) died in the early morning of December 25, 1851.

[Abramelin]

I wonder how his wife died, in the early morning of Christmas day 1851, at the age of only 45.

May their souls have found peace.

Old thread #11277 - Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:22 PM

Yeah, whatever one may think of the OLB, I've read a couple of really saddening life stories for this thread.

[Abramelin]

What is the etymology for the name "Cananefates"?

Most certainly NOT 'rabbit catchers', or 'dog eaters', not even 'leek masters', but maybe "hanenvatters" or "rooster catchers", lol.

But from what I read here, the word 'haan' originally had to do with 'singing' :

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/haan

Germ. *χanan- originally meant “singer”.

χanan-fates?? Did they hunt down singers? Makes me think of what often happened to the bard, Assurancetourix, in the comic "Asterix and Obelix", lol.

OK, let's stay with "hanen", or 'roosters'. The 'fates' part of Cananefates may be nothing but an old word for 'foot' or 'feet'....

Hanenvoeten........ hanenpoten..... kippenpoten (which is something of an offending remark about someone's legs or style of handwriting)

http://static.nationalgeographic.nl/pictures/genjUserPhotoPicture/mediaBig/66/41/11/hanenpoten-114166.jp

==

With 'wordplay' you can prove nearly anything. Now look at the next 'gem' (and then the post that follows after this one...) :

But now consider where these Cananefates lived: near the coast, and near rivers. Either they were excellent swimmers or they used boats.

What's an ancient (Dutch/German/Saxon/Norse) name for boat? It's KAAN/KAHNE/KANE/KAENA.

J. de Vries(!!!) (1971), Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek

kaan 2 znw. v. ‘soort schip’ < nhd. kahn. Reeds bij Kiliaen, die het Sax. noemt, waarsch. < nnd. kane ‘bootje’ (sedert 1168 bekend), waarvoor zie: kan. — Dat de bet. ‘boot’ oud kan zijn, bevestigt on. kæna ‘bootje’.

http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/kaan2

So does their name mean "boat fetchers/catchers"??

I can imagine these people used lots of dug-out canoes (and yes, 'canoe' is not an Arawak name, and most probably also not originally a Spanish name, but an early borrowing into Latin from Germanic, from Latin into Spanish, and then to the Arawak).

And most probably someone else will come up with Canan-nefates... nefa, as an Old Germanic word meaning "nephew" http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nefa

In OLB style: Nef Kanan. Whooow... Nephews from Canaan?? Just kidding.

No, I think it's 'boat-fetchers', 'boat-grabbers', whatever. And that's because of what I found by coincidence after clicking on Wiki links like crazy.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

The next is from a Dutch wiki about Gannascus, a Cananefatian:

Dutch/English:

Gannascus was een gedeserteerde Cananefatische soldaat die kan worden beschouwd als de eerste Nederlandse zeerover die ons bij naam bekend is.

Gannascus was a deserted Cananefatian soldier who may be regarded as the first Dutch pirate known to us by name.

Na een periode in dienst van de Romeinse leger deserteerde hij. Rond 46 n.Chr benutte hij de periode tussen de ambtstermijnen van de gouverneurs Sanquinius Maximus en diens opvolger Domitius Corbulo voor het bedrijven van zeeroverij in de oostelijke kustwateren van de Noordzee. Hierbij zou hij gebruik hebben gemaakt van grote boomstamkano's. Hij werkte hierbij nauw samen met Chaukische en Friese piraten. Waarschijnlijk leverde Gannascus de benodigde expertise (zowel wat betreft detailkennis van de Nederlandse en Belgische kustwateren als ook inzicht in de zwakke punten van de Romeinen) en leverden de Chauken en Frisii de boten en het merendeel van de mankracht. Men opereerde kennelijk vanuit Fries grondgebied. Ook verschillende nederzettingen in de Romeinse provincie Gallia Belgica waren niet veilig voor de zeerovers van Gannascus.

After a period in the service of the Roman army he deserted. Around 46 AD, he used the period between the tenures of the governors Sanquinius Maximus and his successor Domitius Corbulo for committing piracy in the eastern coastal waters of the North Sea. For this he is said to have used large dugout canoes. He cooperated closely with Chaucian and Frisian pirates. Gannascus probably supplied the necessary expertise (both in terms of detailed knowledge of the Dutch and Belgian coastal waters as well as insight into the weaknesses of the Romans) and the Chaucians and Frisians supplied the boats and most of the manpower.They apparently operated from Frisian territory. Several settlements in the Roman province of Gallia Belgica were also not safe from Gannascus' pirates.

De nieuwe gouverneur Corbulo greep na aankomst in Germania Inferior meteen in. Hij wist de Germanen zowel op het land, op het water en in de diplomatieke arena te verslaan. Hij liet zijn triremen op de Rijn patrouilleren en stuurde kleinere schepen om in de afgelegen riviertjes en kreken in de delta te kunnen komen. Dit had succes. De Romeinen wisten de vloot van Gannascus in een zeeslag te vernietigen. Gannascus werd verdreven, en het grondgebied van de Frisii van waaruit Gannascus had geopereerd werd door de Romeinen met geweld bezet.

After arriving in Germania Inferior the new governor Corbulo took immediate action. He succeeded in beating the Germans both on land, and on water as well as in the diplomatical arena. He sent his triremes on patrol on the Rhine and used smaller ships to enter the delta by means of remote smaller rivers and creeks. This was successful. The Romans managed to destroy Gannascus' fleet during a naval battle. Gannascus was driven back, and the Frisian territory from which Gannascus had operated was violently occupied by the Romans.

Er begonnen onderhandelingen tussen de Romeinen en Gannascus, georganiseerd onder auspiciën van de 'Grotere Chauken'. De Romeinen maakten echter van deze gelegenheid gebruik om Gannascus te vermoorden. De Chauken waren witheet over deze daad die zij als een daad van kwader trouw beschouwden. Toen Corbulo met zijn leger op trok naar Chaukisch gebied dreigde er een majeure oorlog tussen de Romeinen en de Chauken. Corbulo kreeg van keizer Claudius echter de opdracht zich achter de Rijn terug te trekken om zo de spanningen te verminderen. Claudius had geen trek in een Germaanse oorlog die zijn plannen voor Britannia in gevaar hadden kunnen brengen.

Negotiations between the Romans and Gannascus started, under the guidance of the "Greater Chaucians". However, the Romans used this opportunity to murder Gannascus. The Chaucians became furious about this act which they considered an act of treachery. When Corbulo and his army marched to Chaucian area a major war between the Romans and the Chauken was impending. However, Corbulo was then ordered by Emperor Claudius to retreat below the Rhine to reduce tensions. Claudius had no appetite for a German war that could have put his plans for Britannia at risk

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gannascus

Van Gorp, to me it is very plausible the Cananefates lived where they were always supposed to have lived, and that's at the west coast of the Dutch provinces of Noordholland and Zuidholland.

Btw, I came up with dugout canoes an hour or so before I read this Gannascus may actually have used them. When I read that I nearly choked, lol.

+++++

EDIT:

The oldest known dugout canoe is from the Netherlands: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Pesse_canoe

.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

And look what they found last year in Houten, near the city of Utrecht:

A 2500 years old, 21 feet long dugout canoe:

http://historiek.net...outen-castellum-

That's very close to Cananefatian territory. Could be Frisian territory.

If the Cananefates were living somewhere deep inside Europe, and thus were landlubbers, I don't expect a deserting Cananefatian soldier to first seek help from sailors living at the North Sea coast.. There were more than enough Germanic tribes living far inland who hated the Romans.

Cananefates... "canoe grabbers"... The first thing they did, living as they did near creeks, brooks, estuaries, the North Sea, rivers, when going on a date, fishing, exploring, fighting, was 'grab' a canoe, and sail off, lol.

You see, Van Gorp, I 'proved' it using your kind of etymology.

But I even have archeological and textual proof to back it up.

.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Btw, the article also says:

"Tijdens de opgravingen zijn ontdekkingen gedaan die archeologen meer informatie geven over het leven in de ijzertijd en Romeinse tijd (ca. 500 v. Chr.-200 na Chr.)."

In English:

During the digs, discoveries have been made that gave archeologists more information about life during the Iron Age and Roman times (ca 500 BCE - 200 CE).

But that would refute Delahaye's claims that Utrecht (the city with that name and the province with that name) was below sea level during Roman times, right?

Right.

And those Dunkirk Transgressions (an abandoned theory btw.) happened after the Romans left (or maybe they left because of it).

If the area got slowly flooded and therefore uninhabitable, as the theory suggests, then the Frisians will have moved to higher ground, like present day Belgium, and named their new settlements after the settlements they had to leave.

So whatever Frisian-like place names you encounter in present-day Belgium, they must have been of a later date.

And most importantly: this is still about the OLB. The OLB was put on paper from the 6h century BC and onwards.

So what do Delahaye's theories have to do with it anyway?

Nothing, nothing at all. His theories concern the period AFTER the Romans left, and till about the year 1000 AD. Carolingian times, mainly.

The OLB concerns a period of time between 2194 BCE and a couple of decades after year 1 CE, with 2 letters added to the family chronicle from much more recent times ( = medieval times).

.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Abramelin

[Van Gorp]

Relevance of Delahaye concerning Caninefates and OLB?

Well, I think that is pretty obvious. Whether you agree with his statements or not, the relevance is there.

He places the most of tribes/names that are mentionned in Roman texts (and the Caninefates are linked to) between present day Northern France and Zeeland.

Among which some examples are Cherusci, Chatti, Sax, Dane Marke, Walacria, Sturii, Hellenium … All quite relevant to OLB also I think.

Now, all following is unrelated to Delahaye. Comes on top that there is also a link with Frisian counts and their family to Northern France.

Other link with OLB are the Caesars of Constantinople, Middle East and crusaders that were originally from those areas.

When talking about floods in the Low Countries it is even plausible that land that was previously flooded (marshy) for a while (after the sinking of Atland), from the moment it became more dry after trans/regressions due to the forming of the dunes, got ‘cultivated’ and taken-in back as new territory by the people living on more higher and stable ground (as in Flanders, as in the Netherlands the sea did came further land inwards as it does now and who will tell for sure how many years back in time this exactly was?). Meaning that after the sinking of Aldland and the following trans/regressions (f.e. the Roman era), people had gradually came down from the hills or higher planes to the lowest parts (so in the case of the lowlands more from south to north).

Concerning the timeline, I think there is another factor that is very interesting. We can be sceptic about traditonal history here, no?

Roman/Greek texts are mostly found only in the (late) middleages, copied/added in 100-fold, interpreted by some and then taken forth to us without much consideration (though many think otherwise).

Archelogic interpretation is mostly linked to other interpretations, that on their term are linked to other interpretations about point in time. Seldom we say unrelated to other events: this happened x years back in time. Mostly it happend "during the time of ...".

What if the views of Anatoly Fomenko/Monaldi/Sorti (Kasparov tends to think alike) are taken into account?

Like doublures in placenames, we can have doublures in history tales making the real timespan between events/history far less stretched then now is the case.

Roman history being tales about middleage events.

I find it amasing how certain we sometimes are about the point in time of some thousands years back and when there is doubt about the chronlogy the facts still stay?

For some known persons in the 18^th century there is allready some doubt in decades. Roman timings were not that clear at all to interprete.

In that sense I sometimes wonder at the timeframes in OLB, Roman texts, WIKI, archeology… do we get it all right or is it just one linking to another assumed fact like a gordian knot?

But to link events, we are bound to use them.

But for me, ok if it is behind doubt that the Caninefates must have lived in the Netherlands. With Gannascus we come pretty close to Genech, whatever the reason may be :-)

That behind doubt is quite personnal, just like most have a different feeling on the ‘truth’ in/around OLB.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Van Gorp

[The Puzzler]

What is the etymology for the name "Cananefates"?

Most certainly NOT 'rabbit catchers', or 'dog eaters', not even 'leek masters', but maybe "hanenvatters" or "rooster catchers", lol.

But from what I read here, the word 'haan' originally had to do with 'singing' :

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/haan

Germ. *χanan- originally meant “singer”.

χanan-fates?? Did they hunt down singers? Makes me think of what often happened to the bard, Assurancetourix, in the comic "Asterix and Obelix", lol.

OK, let's stay with "hanen", or 'roosters'. The 'fates' part of Cananefates may be nothing but an old word for 'foot' or 'feet'....

Hanenvoeten........ hanenpoten..... kippenpoten (which is something of an offending remark about someone's legs or style of handwriting)

http://static.nation...poten-114166.jp

==

With 'wordplay' you can prove nearly anything. Now look at the next 'gem' (and then the post that follows after this one...) :

But now consider where these Cananefates lived: near the coast, and near rivers. Either they were excellent swimmers or they used boats.

What's an ancient (Dutch/German/Saxon/Norse) name for boat? It's KAAN/KAHNE/KANE/KAENA.

J. de Vries(!!!) (1971), Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek

kaan 2 znw. v. ‘soort schip’ < nhd. kahn. Reeds bij Kiliaen, die het Sax. noemt, waarsch. < nnd. kane ‘bootje’ (sedert 1168 bekend), waarvoor zie: kan. — Dat de bet. ‘boot’ oud kan zijn, bevestigt on. kæna ‘bootje’.

http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/kaan2

So does their name mean "boat fetchers/catchers"??

I can imagine these people used lots of dug-out canoes (and yes, 'canoe' is not an Arawak name, and most probably also not originally a Spanish name, but an early borrowing into Latin from Germanic, from Latin into Spanish, and then to the Arawak).

And most probably someone else will come up with Canan-nefates... nefa, as an Old Germanic word meaning "nephew" http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nefa

In OLB style: Nef Kanan. Whooow... Nephews from Canaan?? Just kidding.

No, I think it's 'boat-fetchers', 'boat-grabbers', whatever. And that's because of what I found by coincidence after clicking on Wiki links like crazy.

Which reminds me the early name for Phoenicians was something like Kna, that ended up being the root of Canaan, hang on -

In the Amarna tablets of the 14th century BC, people from the region called themselves Kenaani or Kinaani (Canaanites), although these letters predate the invasion of the Sea Peoples by over a century. Much later, in the 6th century BC, Hecataeus of Miletus writes that Phoenicia was formerly called χνα, a name Philo of Byblos later adopted into his mythology as his eponym for the Phoenicians: "Khna who was afterwards called Phoinix".^[4] Egyptian seafaring expeditions had already been made to Byblos to bring back "cedars of Lebanon" as early as the third millennium BC.

and this:

The land was natively known as knʿn (cf. Eblaite ca-na-na-um, ca-na-na), remembered in the 6th century BC by Hecataeus under the Greek form Chna (χνα), and its people as the knʿny (cf. Punic chanani, Hebrew canaʿani).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia

Well, Phoenicians WERE sailors.

[Abramelin]

EDIT: Didn't see you there, Puzz. The next was a reply to Van Gorp's post.

--

Hmmm.......

In what way are Delehaye's theories relevant to the OLB?

His theories were about the time after the Romans had left.

The OLB is about the time period between 2194 BC and some decades after AD.

Could the Frisians have fled south to Belgium and northern France when their country got flooded? Sure.

Would they have named their new settlements after the ones they had to flee from? Sure.

Is there archeological proof parts of the Netherlands were inhabitated during the time Delahaye assumed those areas were submerged? Sure. Instead of juggling with words you should inform yourself about the latest archeological finds instead. And Roman names from the time Tacitus talks about show up on coins and stones.

What are we talking about here?

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Which reminds me the early name for Phoenicians was something like Kna, that ended up being the root of Canaan, hang on -

In the Amarna tablets of the 14th century BC, people from the region called themselves Kenaani or Kinaani (Canaanites), although these letters predate the invasion of the Sea Peoples by over a century. Much later, in the 6th century BC, Hecataeus of Miletus writes that Phoenicia was formerly called χνα, a name Philo of Byblos later adopted into his mythology as his eponym for the Phoenicians: "Khna who was afterwards called Phoinix".^[4] Egyptian seafaring expeditions had already been made to Byblos to bring back "cedars of Lebanon" as early as the third millennium BC.

and this:

The land was natively known as knʿn (cf. Eblaite ca-na-na-um, ca-na-na), remembered in the 6th century BC by Hecataeus under the Greek form Chna (χνα), and its people as the knʿny (cf. Punic chanani, Hebrew canaʿani).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia

Well, Phoenicians WERE sailors.

Yeah, and you know I once said that if you leave out the -f- in Cananefates you would get Cananeates, or Canaanites, lol.

Then there is the Phoenician/Hebrew explanation for the name of the goddess "Nehalennia", plus the theory of Theo Vennemann about Phoenician words showing up in Germanic, plus the fact that the Phoenicians had tin mines in Cornwall, and there you go.

But *I* prefer an archeological dig that gives us an old Phoenician ship, or a tablet with Phoenician writing, and all that here in the Netherlands.

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

Yeah, and you know I once said that if you leave out the -f- in Cananefates you would get Cananeates, or Canaanites, lol.

Then there is the Phoenician/Hebrew explanation for the name of the goddess "Nehalennia", plus the theory of Theo Vennemann about Phoenician words showing up in Germanic, plus the fact that the Phoenicians had tin mines in Cornwall, and there you go.

But *I* prefer an archeological dig that gives us an old Phoenician ship, or a tablet with Phoenician writing, and all that here in the Netherlands.

.

Ya know, I read an interesting thing last night, in a book, that some Hittites may have (after their fall) passed through Europe and became the Chatti between the Rhine and Weser.

[Abramelin]

Ya know, I read an interesting thing last night, in a book, that some Hittites may have (after their fall) passed through Europe and became the Chatti between the Rhine and Weser.

Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprized if that source happens to be a book based on the Bible...

[The Puzzler]

Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprized if that source happens to be a book based on the Bible...

I found this on the net.

http://www.keithhunt.com/Hittite.html

[Abramelin]

I found this on the net.

http://www.keithhunt.com/Hittite.html

Like I said: the Bible.

=

Btw, it's interesting to note what a site supportive of Delahaye's theories about the history (or better, 'non-history) of the Netherlands says about Willen van Haren (epic poem about Friso) :

22. Zie : DBNL. Het werk van Willem van Haren is mogelijk een inspiratiebron geweest voor het latere Oera-Linda Bok.

22. See: DBNL. The work of Willem van Haren may have been a source of inspiration for the later Oera Linda Bok.

http://www.ijpelaan....ogisch.html#N22

And in that sentence is a link to a webpage on the DBNL site, and it's about Willem van Haren. According to the text (from 1822) Voltaire wrote a poem in praise (panegyric) to Willem van Haren.

http://www.dbnl.org/...g03_01_0022.php

(And yet another a link to France...)

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

The French Revolution started in the same year Halbertsma was born.

-0-

As I showed in part -1- of this thread, many ideas of the French Revolution sounded quite similar to he OLB philosophy.

-0-

During the French Revolution the Linden/lime tree was important (celebrations, declarations)

-0-

At some point the revolutionaries wanted to install a new and improved "Supreme being" (ie., not the Biblical version).

They changed the names of days into names of trees. And guess what: the special day for the Supreme Being was a 'linden tree' day (have too look that one up again).

-0-

Halbertsma was in close contact with Napoleon's nephew, and even translated the Gospel according to Matthew into Frisian on the request of this nephew.

-0-

Louis Napoleon was loved by the Dutch despite all the odds, and he started his reign in 1806. He was nothing but an extension of the French Revolution.

-0-

From the OLB:

Then the false priests shall be swept away from the earth. Wr-alda’s spirit shall be invoked everywhere and always; the laws that Wr-alda in the beginning instilled into our consciences shall alone be listened to. There shall be neither princes, nor masters, nor rulers, except those chosen by the general voice. Then Frya shall rejoice, and the earth will only bestow her gifts on those who work. All this shall begin 4000 years after the submersion of Atland.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#br

4000 years after Atland submerged: 1806 AD

-0-

Charles-Joseph de Graeve/Grave's "La Republique des Champs-Elysées ou Monde Ancien" was published in 1806, one year after his death.

De Grave situated "Atlantis" in the Netherlands / the Dutch province of Zeeland, Belgium Flanders & French Flanders / the delta of the river Schelde.

Further he concluded that these 'Atlantians' spoke Flemish and spread their culture from Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (southern part of the province of Zeeland) to the rest of Europe.

-0-

Here is a quote from Volney's book ("Les Ruines", owned by Cornelis Over de Linden) :

XIII. Christianity, or the Allegorical Worship of the Sun,

under the cabalistical names of Chrish-en, or Christ, and

Ye-sus or Jesus.

"Finally, these traditions went so far as to mention even his astrological and mythological names, and inform us that he was called sometimes Chris, that is to say, preserver,149 {p.160} from that, ye Indians, you have made your god Chrish-en or Chrish-na; and, ye Greek and Western Christians, your Chris-tos, son of Mary, is the same; sometimes he is called Yes, by the union of three letters, which by their numerical value form the number 1,608, one of the solar periods.150 And this, Europeans, is the name which, with the Latin termination, is become your Yes-us or Jesus, the ancient and cabalistic name attributed to young Bacchus, the clandestine son (nocturnal) of the Virgin Minerva, who, in the history of his whole life, and even of his death, brings to mind the history of the god of the Christians, that is, of the star of day, of which they are each of them the emblems."

http://www.masseiana.../volney.htm#152

(btw: this is the English edition of 1882, but the original, French edition was published in 1791)

From the OLB:

Sin forme nôm wêre Jes-us, thach tha prestera thêr-im sêralik haeton hêton him Fo thaet is falx, thaet folk hête him Kris-en thaet is herder, aend sin Fryaske frjund hêta him Bûda, vmbe that hi in sin hâvad en skaet fon wisdom hêde aend in sin hirt en skaet fon ljavde.

His first name was Jes-us, but the priests, who hated him, called him Fo, that is, false; the people called him Kris-en, that is, shepherd; and his Frisian friend called him Buda, because he had in his head a treasure of wisdom, and in his heart a treasure of love.

The OLB "Fo" is pronounced exactly like the French "faux", and it means exactly the same: FALSE.

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Took me a while to wade through the first part of this thread, but I found what I was looking for:

The Cult of the Supreme Being:

To inaugurate the new state religion, Robespierre declared that 20 Prairial Year II (8 June 1794) would be the first day of national celebration of the Supreme Being, and future republican holidays were to be held every tenth day – the days of rest (décadi) in the new French Republican Calendar.[14] Every locality was mandated to hold a commemorative event, but the event in Paris was designed on a massive scale. The festival was organized by the artist Jacques-Louis David and took place around a man-made mountain on the Champ de Mars.[15] Robespierre assumed full leadership of the event, forcefully – and, to many, ostentatiously[16] – declaring the truth and "social utility" of his new religion.

http://en.wikipedia....e_Supreme_Being

The French revolutionary Calendar you can find here:

http://en.wikipedia....blican_Calendar

http://personal.tele...r/calendar.html

I thought that the Day of the Supreme Being was celebrated on the day of the lindentree/limetree according to that calendar, but I was a day off.

Spring:

The 3 new months were called:

Germinal (from Latin germen, "seed")

Floréal (from Latin flos, "flower")

Prairial (from French prairie, "meadow") May 20 ~ 18 June 18

19. Tilleul (Linden or Lime tree) = june 7

The 8th of june was called ."Fourche" (Pitchfork), lol.

But most liberty trees were linden/lime trees.

And compare what happened with the Catholic church and it's 'personnel' with the OLB thoughts about them ("papen") :

http://en.wikipedia....ench_Revolution

Add to that the French slogan, "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", and it all fits quite nicely.

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I forgot to mention the "Buda" in my post about "Jes-us", "Kris-en", and "Fo".

Dutch:

Het oudste geschrift in het Nederlands waarin een beschrijving van ‘het boeddhisme’ wordt gegeven, dateert van 18 november 1842. Dat is vandaag op de kop af 165 jaar geleden. We kunnen deze datum beschouwen als de

geboortedag van het boeddhisme in Nederland.

De auteur van het geschrift was de doopsgezinde predikant dr. J.H. Halbertsma (1789-1869) uit Deventer. Zijn boekje was getiteld Het Buddhisme en zijn Stichter en telde 75 bladzijden.

Het werd in februari 1843 gedrukt in een oplage van 50 exemplaren, een minieme oplage en

het trok dan ook nauwelijks aandacht.

Halbertsma was ook taalkundige en interesseerde zich voor het Sanskriet. Zijn boekje was

gebaseerd op informatie van de resident van Britse Oost-Indische Compagnie aan het hof van

Nepal, in Kathmandu, B.H. Hodgson (1800-1894). Een van diens zusters was getrouwd met

een Nederlander, een kennis van Halbertsma, baron Nahuys van Burgst. Hij had de dominee

de gegevens over dat exotische geloof, het boeddhisme, ter inzage gegeven.

http://www.vriendenv...nboeddhisme.pdf

English:

The oldest writing in Dutch with a description of 'Buddhism', is dated November 18, 1842. That's today exactly 165 years ago. We can consider this date as the birthday of Buddhism in the Netherlands.

The author of the writing was the Baptist minister J.H. Halbertsma (1789-1869) from Deventer. His book was titled "Buddhism and its Founder" and counted 75 pages.

It was printed in February 1843 and the edition counted 50 copies, a minimal edition and therefore it attracted little attention.

Halbertsma was also a linguist and was interested in Sanskrit. His booklet was based on information from the commissioner of the British East Indian Company at the court of Nepal, in Kathmandu, B.H. Hodgson (1800-1894). One of his sisters was married to a Dutchman, an acquiantance of Halbertsma, Baron Nahuys van Burgst. He had given the pastor details about that exotic faith, Buddhism, for inspection.

I like all these coincidences. Take the date for instance, November 18.

Barlaam and Josaphat or Joasaph is a Christianized version of the story of Siddhartha Gautama, who became the Buddha.[1] In the Middle Ages the two were treated as Christian saints, being entered in the Greek Orthodox calendar on 26 August, and in the Roman Martyrology in the Western Church as "Barlaam and Josaphat" on the date of 27 November.[2] In Eastern Orthodox, in the Russian tradition those two are commemorated on 19 November (corresponding to Gregorian 2 December).

http://en.wikipedia....am_and_Josaphat

http://en.wikipedia...._Josaphat_(book)

Was Buddha/Buddhism not known in the Netherlands before Halbertsma? Sure, even centuries earlier as you can read here (although this Wiki page doesn't have its facts straight: Halbertsma published his book in in 1843 and in Dutch, so the first Dutch book on Buddhism wasn't the one from 1879):

2.^ Philip Utenbroeke (c.13) Barlaam en Joasaph – a translation of the Greek manuscript by c.7 patriarch John of Damascus

3.^ Rogerius (1651) notes of missionary work on the Coromandel Coast of India mentioning the Buddha as the ninth Avatar of Visnu

http://en.wikipedia....nds#cite_note-1

But Buddha wasn't known here under that name; he was known as Josaphat, a derivation of Bodhisattva.

http://en.wikipedia....d_Josaphat#Name

As the Wiki says, he was considered a Christian saint, hence his day of celebration on the Christian calendar.

Which also explains why he shows up as Buda in the same OLB paragraph as Jes-us:

His first name was Jes-us, but the priests, who hated him, called him Fo, that is, false; the people called him Kris-en, that is, shepherd; and his Frisian friend called him Buda (purse/pouch), because he had in his head a treasure of wisdom, and in his heart a treasure of love.

Wait a minute, "his Frisian friend ( "sin Fryaske frjund")??

Couldn't that be this Frisan pastor, aka Halbertsma?

.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Abramelin

[Mario Dantas]

The word “Cananefates” could well be related to Cannan(ites) somehow (and agreeing with what The Puzzler said before):

Which reminds me the early name for Phoenicians was something like Kna, that ended up being the root of Canaan, hang on -

In the Amarna tablets of the 14th century BC, people from the region called themselves Kenaani or Kinaani (Canaanites), although these letters predate the invasion of the Sea Peoples by over a century. Much later, in the 6th century BC,Hecataeus of Miletus writes that Phoenicia was formerly called χνα, a name Philo of Byblos later adopted into his mythology as his eponym for the Phoenicians: "Khna who was afterwards called Phoinix".[4] Egyptian seafaring expeditions had already been made to Byblos to bring back "cedars of Lebanon" as early as the third millennium BC.

and this:

The land was natively known as knʿn (cf. Eblaite ca-na-na-um, ca-na-na), remembered in the 6th century BC by Hecataeusunder the Greek form Chna (χνα), and its people as the knʿny (cf. Punic chanani, Hebrew canaʿani).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia

Well, Phoenicians WERE sailors.

I find it a great coincidence for Google´s search to show the first (6?) results exclusively related with the word “Cannanite”, while searching for the word "Cananefates". Of all Google´s immense database, these results showed up, and should be considered to be, at least, “word” related. Furthermore, although the “Cananefates” were quite a recent tribe, unlike the Cannanites, the distance between the Cannanite and Cananefate´s territory (Rhine delta) is indeed very small, meaning that there could have been an unknown ancient link between the two...

The Curse of Ham (more properly called the Curse of Canaan) is the biblical incident in the Book of Genesis (Genesis 9:20–27) where Ham's father Noah placed a curse upon Ham's son Canaan.Genesis tells how Noah, the first "husbandman" (farmer), was also the first to cultivate the vine and make wine. After Noah became drunk, and was "uncovered within his tent", his son Ham "saw the nakedness of his father" and told his two brothers, Shem and Japheth, who then covered Noah with a cloak while averting their eyes. When Noah awoke and "knew what his younger son had done to him", he pronounced the curse, not on Ham, but on Ham's son Canaan. Canaan was condemned to be a "servant of servants...to his brothers."

Questions raised by this story, especially regarding the nature of Ham's transgression, and the question of why Noah cursed Canaan when Ham had sinned, have been debated for over two thousand years.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham

Could the word “Cananefates” have anything to do with the words Caanan + fate, meaning something like the “Curse of Caanan”?

Why would also the words Phoenicians, Phaiakians (Phaeacians), or Vikings be coincidentally related to known seafarers in a considerably close geographical proximity (North Africa, Middle East and Europe)? There seems to be a great deal of unknown here, but that is just my opinion...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited July 10, 2012 by Mario Dantas

[Abramelin]

Well Mario, in theory it is possible.

We know that the Phoenicians called themselves "Khnn", or with vowels, "Khanan", and we know they visited Cornwall to trade in or dig for tin ore.

Then there is this sea goddess that was venerated in a place to the south of their area, a goddess called "Nehalennia". The etymology of the goddess is sometimes explained by using either Phoenician or Hebrew, and then the name means something like "guardian/guide/protectress of ships". And she is often depicted with her left foot on a ship.

Then there is the theory of the German linguist Theo Vennemann who states that the Germanic languages have lots of Phoenician borrowings.

I started calling them the OLB Phoenicians years ago, as a joke, by saying that if you leave out the -f- in Cananefates, you will get Cananeates, which is close to Canaanites. The rest of the joke was this...

Their name is most often explained as "leek masters" which I think is bull. But I said, ok, so they are 'leek masters'. The leek is a very close relative of the onion. There are red onions. Maybe they used the peels of these red onions to die cloth and linnen and so on. You won't believe how amazed I was when I found a site that actually used these red onions to color fabric !! And I had only made it up, lol.

And you know why I bring up the coloring of fabric: that is what the Phoenicians were famous for in the Med, only there they used some kind of snails to die their cloth purple.

But Mario, I think you didn't read all of this thread.

The Oera Linda Book mentions a city called "Kadik". Everyone automatically assumes it is "Gadir" or "Cadiz" in Portugal.

I say it's the village of Katwijk on the west coast of the Netherlands... smack in the middle of where the Cananefates once lived.

But Katwijk doesn't sound much like Kadik, you might say. No, it doesn't, but the people living there pronounce it like "Kaddik" or "Kattik" (depending how much liquor they ingested)

To counter any rising confusion, I should add that the Portugese city of Cadiz was written as "Kadix" or "Cadix" here (and in other parts of Europe) ages ago. And the -X- is to be pronounced as -KS- . And add to that that it were the Phoenicians (the 'Khanan') who settled Cadiz (or Gadira in their language).

==

It's my impression you do not get what this thread is really all about. And you are excused because I cannot expect you to go read the first part of this thread which is 780 pages long. But it really is about nothing but this: is the OLB a 19th century forgery, or is it true ancient document about a forgotten European civilization?

+++++

EDIT:

The Vikings showed up a long time after the Phoenicians and the Phaiakians.

Even an old Frisian source explaines the name - with bit of my help, heh - as coming from "king of the Jutes". Or better "Vith Kening", or the OLB "Witkening" or the OLB "Witking".

Vith = Jute according to that source.

Oh, and I found some sites using "Vitking" for Viking. Those were French and Spanish persons from near the Pyrenees and near the Med.

++++++++

ANOTHER EDIT, sorry:

That Google Search shows "Canaanites" when you search for "Cananefates" might be because of me: I have often combined "Cananefates" with "Canaanites" and "Phoenicians" when I did a Google search. And Google remembers one of their best clients...

.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

The job is done.

Here is the very first (as far as I know) edited (reshuffled) publication of the OLB.

[The Puzzler]

Well Mario, in theory it is possible.

We know that the Phoenicians called themselves "Khnn", or with vowels, "Khanan", and we know they visited Cornwall to trade in or dig for tin ore.

Then there is this sea goddess that was venerated in a place to the south of their area, a goddess called "Nehalennia". The etymology of the goddess is sometimes explained by using either Phoenician or Hebrew, and then the name means something like "guardian/guide/protectress of ships". And she is often depicted with her left foot on a ship.

Then there is the theory of the German linguist Theo Vennemann who states that the Germanic languages have lots of Phoenician borrowings.

I started calling them the OLB Phoenicians years ago, as a joke, by saying that if you leave out the -f- in Cananefates, you will get Cananeates, which is close to Canaanites. The rest of the joke was this...

Their name is most often explained as "leek masters" which I think is bull. But I said, ok, so they are 'leek masters'. The leek is a very close relative of the onion. There are red onions. Maybe they used the peels of these red onions to die cloth and linnen and so on. You won't believe how amazed I was when I found a site that actually used these red onions to color fabric !! And I had only made it up, lol.

And you know why I bring up the coloring of fabric: that is what the Phoenicians were famous for in the Med, only there they used some kind of snails to die their cloth purple.

But Mario, I think you didn't read all of this thread.

The Oera Linda Book mentions a city called "Kadik". Everyone automatically assumes it is "Gadir" or "Cadiz" in Portugal.

I say it's the village of Katwijk on the west coast of the Netherlands... smack in the middle of where the Cananefates once lived.

But Katwijk doesn't sound much like Kadik, you might say. No, it doesn't, but the people living there pronounce it like "Kaddik" or "Kattik" (depending how much liquor they ingested)

To counter any rising confusion, I should add that the Portugese city of Cadiz was written as "Kadix" or "Cadix" here (and in other parts of Europe) ages ago. And the -X- is to be pronounced as -KS- . And add to that that it were the Phoenicians (the 'Khanan') who settled Cadiz (or Gadira in their language).

==

It's my impression you do not get what this thread is really all about. And you are excused because I cannot expect you to go read the first part of this thread which is 780 pages long. But it really is about nothing but this: is the OLB a 19th century forgery, or is it true ancient document about a forgotten European civilization?

+++++

EDIT:

The Vikings showed up a long time after the Phoenicians and the Phaiakians.

Even an old Frisian source explaines the name - with bit of my help, heh - as coming from "king of the Jutes". Or better "Vith Kening", or the OLB "Witkening" or the OLB "Witking".

Vith = Jute according to that source.

Oh, and I found some sites using "Vitking" for Viking. Those were French and Spanish persons from near the Pyrenees and near the Med.

++++++++

ANOTHER EDIT, sorry:

That Google Search shows "Canaanites" when you search for "Cananefates" might be because of me: I have often combined "Cananefates" with "Canaanites" and "Phoenicians" when I did a Google search. And Google remembers one of their best clients...

.

Hmmmm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(etymology)

A Hebrew word KANEH bosm - quite sounds like Canaan or Khna

Semitic etymologist Sula Benet, of the Institute of Anthropological Sciences in Warsaw, has indicated the origin to be the Hebrew word קַנַּבּוֹס (qannabbôs) kaneh bosm. Benet, (also known as Sara Benetowa) is quoted saying:

The astonishing resemblance between the Semitic

kanbos

and the Scythian

cannabis

lead me to suppose that the Scythian word was of Semitic origin. These etymological discussions run parallel to arguments drawn from history. The Iranian Scythians were probably related to the Medes, who were neighbors of the Semites and could easily have assimilated the word for hemp. The Semites could also have spread the word during their migrations through Asia Minor.

Benet — in Book of Grass

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(etymology}

⁾