Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Abramelin]

"LITTERIS IN MODUM ROTAE"

=> letters in wheel-mode (in the shape/ fashion of the wheel)

I can not think of a more accurate formula in Latin to describe the OLB-script.

And where does that phrase come from? It's not in any of your former posts.

[Otharus]

I think the Romans had Latin as their mother tongue.

Written language can be a representation of spoken language, or of information.

Information, can be computer language, chemical formulae, data. It is not always language in the way that people usually communicate.

Latin is like our telegram-style language.

It uses as little possible words and letters, to communicate as much information as possible.

That's why Latin was never an oral language of the natural people.

[Otharus]

What else should one make of "tortuosis capreolatimque"?

And where does that phrase come from?

I suggest you do a course or get a book and learn Latin if you are really interested (which I doubt).

All this explaining of the obvious to a layman who thinks he knows it all is annoying the crap out of me already.

Goodbye again.

[Abramelin]

I suggest you do a course or get a book and learn Latin if you are really interested (which I doubt).

All this explaining of the obvious to a layman who thinks he knows it all is annoying the crap out of me already.

Goodbye again.

You don't have an answer, and I don't know it all

It's ok. I have an answer, but first the word must be split up: capreolatim and que:

Capreolatim

* in a winding|twisting manner

* like twisted tendrils

http://glosbe.com/la/en/capreolatim

-que

Translations into English:

and: Used to connect two similar words, phrases, et cetera

Other meanings:

(rare) used in an answer:

and (when used as an enclitic), a copulative particle affixed to the word it annexes

it can introduce an explanatory clause

.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

"LITTERIS IN MODUM ROTAE"

=> letters in wheel-mode (in the shape/ fashion of the wheel)

I can not think of a more accurate formula in Latin to describe the OLB-script.

You certainly master the art of misquoting !!

I asked you where this phrase comes from:

"LITTERIS IN MODUM ROTAE"

You just made it up. It's not in any of your former posts, and most importantly, it's not in the book you quote from to prove your point that he writes about the OLB script.

He didn't, and now you are p***ed he really didn't.

Fine with me. Maybe next time you can return to your favorite topic about how we Dutch suppress the OLB and so on.

.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

... but first the word must be split up: capreolatim and que:

That "-que" behind a word equals "et" in front of it is one of the first lessons when learning Latin.

Like I said:

tortuosis capreolatimque = serpentine and curled

[Otharus]

I asked you where this phrase comes from:

"LITTERIS IN MODUM ROTAE"

You just made it up. It's not in any of your former posts, and most importantly, it's not in the book you quote from to prove your point that he writes about the OLB script.

You dare.

"... libros litteris ignorabilibus praenotatos, partim figuris cuiusce modi animalium concepti sermonis compendiosa verba suggerentes, partim nodosis et in modum rotae tortuosis capreolatimque condensis apicibus a curiositate profanorum lectione munita."

OK, to avoid confusion of the uninitiated:

"LITTERIS [...] IN MODUM ROTAE"

[Abramelin]

You dare.

OK, to avoid confusion of the uninitiated:

"LITTERIS [...] IN MODUM ROTAE"

Hahaha!! See, you just connected Litteris, dropped 100 words, and added what was left, in modum rotae

You should have been a lawyer.

[Otharus]

See, you just connected Litteris, dropped 100 words, and added what was left, in modum rotae

If you would know anything at all about Latin, you would know that "in modum rotae" belongs to "litteris", just like the other descriptions.

[Abramelin]

I will ask someone who never heard about the OLB what the complete quote is about.

I don't have to look far: I have a brother who studied Greek and Latin for years; my only problem is that he is now in Russia for his work.

[Otharus]

One can also look at it like this:

The Romans knew what round is, they also had words for that.

They did not need the image of a wheel to describe 'round'.

If the author had meant 'round' or 'curly', he could have just used those words.

In the example picture you gave, the letters were rounded and curled, but not "like a wheel", as a wheel is a perfectly round circle, without an opening.

"litteris [...] in modum rotae" = letters [...] in the mode/ fashion of the wheel (or: modeled after the wheel).

[Abramelin]

I just now found a recent translation and one from the 16th century.

THE GOLDEN ASS, OR METAMORPHOSES

by Apuleius, translated by E. J. Kenney

© 1998 by E. J. Kenney

BOOK II

And holding my arm affectionately the old man then and there took me out to the doors of the great temple, and after the solemn ritual of opening them and the performance of the morning sacrifice he brought out from the holy of holies some books written in unknown characters. Some of these represented various animals and were shorthand for formulaic expressions, and some were in the form of knots or rounded like a wheel or twisted at the ends like vine-tendrils, to guard their meaning against the curiosity of the uninitiated.

http://www.naderlibr...oldenass.11.htm

The Golden Asse

by Lucius Apuleius "Africanus"

Translated by William Adlington

[1566]

whereupon the old man tooke me by the hand, and lead me to the gate of the great temple, where at the first entrie he made a solemne celebration, and after morning sacrifice ended, brought out of the secret place of the temple books, partly written with unknown characters, and partly painted with figures of beasts declaring briefly every sentence, with tops and tailes, turning in fashion of a wheele, which were strange and impossible to be read of the prophane people:

http://www.sacred-te...cla/ga/ga49.htm

It appears to me there are several possible translations. The second one from the 16th century is totally different than anything we came up with up to now: according to Adlington all the characteristics we discussed have to do with the paintings of animals.

.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

And does the OLB script really look like wheels at all?

The OLB script is BASED on Jol wheels, but they don't look like wheels, except for maybe a couple of them, like the -O- .

.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

The OLB script is BASED on Jol wheels, but they don't look like wheels, except for maybe a couple of them, like the -O- .

The Latin text by Apuleius does not say the letters look like wheels, but they are "in modum rotae"; in wheel-mode or based on the wheel.

This may have been a more commonly known phenomenon, than it is now.

(Of the 2 translations you gave, the newest [1998] is obviously the most accurate.)

[Abramelin]

The Latin text by Apuleius does not say the letters look like wheels, but they are "in modum rotae"; in wheel-mode or based on the wheel.

This may have been a more commonly known phenomenon, than it is now.

(Of the 2 translations you gave, the newest [1998] is obviously the most accurate.)

I may not have learned Latin, but everywhere I look "in modum rotae" means 'wheel-like' or 'in the form of a wheel'.

Not one translation (or online translator) uses 'based on a wheel'.

And what you call 'the most accurate' uses 'rounded like a wheel'.

Your "based on a wheel" is a way of working towards proof....

[Abramelin]

And if Apuleius had indeed seen the OLB script, why would he say it's 'rounded like wheels' or your 'based on a wheel'?

These are Roman capitals:

This is the OLB script:

He must have read Phoenician script, Roman script, and maybe even Etruscan script. Are they all 'based on a wheel' according to him?

[Otharus]

... everywhere I look "in modum rotae" means 'wheel-like' or 'in the form of a wheel'.

Not one translation (or online translator) uses 'based on a wheel'.

And what you call 'the most accurate' uses 'rounded like a wheel'.

I don't see much difference between

wheel-like,

in the form of a wheel,

based on a wheel,

and

rounded like a wheel.

The thing with Latin is that more translations than only one are valid.

[Otharus]

And if Apuleius had indeed seen the OLB script, why would he say it's 'rounded like wheels' or your 'based on a wheel'?

The answer could not be more obvious.

Because the OLB script IS (as no other known script) 'in modum rotae' (in wheel-mode, in wheel-fashion).

He must have read Phoenician script, Roman script, and maybe even Etruscan script.

Why?

[Abramelin]

The answer could not be more obvious.

Because the OLB script IS (as no other known script) 'in modum rotae' (in wheel-mode, in wheel-fashion).

Why?

But like I said: the OLB letters may be based on a wheel, but the script itself doesn't look like wheels or based on wheels or wheel-like or whatever.

For anyone who reads the OLB for the first time (the original MS I mean) will not think of wheels. They all think it uses some unknown set of runes, or even Roman script with some changes.

==

Why? Because if he had read Phoenician, Roman and Etruscan script, he would have considered them based on wheels too.

[Otharus]

... the OLB letters may be based on a wheel, but the script itself doesn't look like wheels or based on wheels or wheel-like or whatever.

OLB letters ARE based on a wheel.

"In modum rotae" may be translated as "looking like a wheel", but literally it is "in the mode/ fashion of a/ the wheel"

Because if he had read Phoenician, Roman and Etruscan script, he would have considered them based on wheels too.

So, your logic is that

"He must have read Phoenician script, Roman script, and maybe even Etruscan script, because if he had read Phoenician, Roman and Etruscan script, he would have considered them based on wheels too."

DO you see the flaw in your reasoning?

Those scripts ARE NOT based on wheels, at least, not that we know.

Some Phoenician and Etruscan letters look like they may be, but only some.

Apuleius was initiated in the mystery cult of 'Isis'.

He must have known and seen things that will forever remain hidden to us.

~

If OLB is authentic, the number of people who knew (something) about its histories, language and script has to be higher than the number of people who explicitly spoke and wrote about it.

[Abramelin]

All this is based on the translation: either it is 'wheel-like/formed like a wheel', or... it is like you said, 'based on a wheel'.

If it's the first, then Phoenician, Roman and Etruscan should be considered 'wheel-like' too, which they obviously are not, nor does the OLB script look 'wheel-like'. So by just reading something written in OLB script it is not likely Apuleius would have come to the conclusion it was based on a wheel, or else he would have considered Phoenician/Roman/Etruscan script as also based on a wheel.

If it's the second option, then how does Apuleius know it is based on a wheel? One of the secrets he had been iniatiated to?

Anyway, I think you will have to show another example of "in modum (rotae)" being translated in 'based on (a wheel)' (and that being the only possible translation), or else it sounds like nothing but wishful thinking.

.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

All this is based on the translation: either it is 'wheel-like/formed like a wheel', or... it is like you said, 'based on a wheel'.

No, those translations are for people like you who don't know Latin.

For me "in modum rotae" says it better than any of the translations/ interpretations.

Ask anyone who can write in Latin to come with a better description of the OLB script in 3 or less words, and I would be surprised if they would come with anything more accurate than "in modum rotae".

... by just reading something written in OLB script it is not likely Apuleius would have come to the conclusion it was based on a wheel, or else he would have considered Phoenician/Roman/Etruscan script as also based on a wheel.

If it's the second option, then how does Apuleius know it is based on a wheel? One of the secrets he had been iniatiated to?

That is the thing. You have not read the whole book, you miss the context.

The author is believed to partly have written autobiographically, he would have been an Isis-initiate himself.

Therefore, he would not write about secrets and mysteries too explicitly.

For a laymen, "in modum rotae" would simply mean round letters, but the 'good understander' (goede verstaander) would know he was referring to the (by then already occult?) Jol-script.

... another example of "in modum (rotae)" being translated in 'based on (a wheel)' (and that being the only possible translation)

Man, are you serious?

No translation is ever "the only possible translation".

~

Translator Vincent Hunink (2012) p.355 (Nawoord):

"Apuleius laat zijn Romeinse lezers genieten van allerlei literaire spelletjes, via citaten, toespelingen, spiegelingen en parodieen. Voor wie zijn klassieken kent is de roman een feest van herkenning en verbazing. En dan te bedenken dat we ongetwijfeld nog heel veel missen, omdat Apuleius natuurlijk ook verwijst naar teksten die niet bewaard zijn gebleven."

[Abramelin]

No, those translations are for people like you who don't know Latin.

For me "in modum rotae" says it better than any of the translations/ interpretations.

Ask anyone who can write in Latin to come with a better description of the OLB script in 3 or less words, and I would be surprised if they would come with anything more accurate than "in modum rotae".

+++

That is the thing. You have not read the whole book, you miss the context.

The author is believed to partly have written autobiographically, he would have been an Isis-initiate himself.

Therefore, he would not write about secrets and mysteries too explicitly.

For a laymen, "in modum rotae" would simply mean round letters, but the 'good understander' (goede verstaander) would know he was referring to the (by then already occult?) Jol-script.

+++

Man, are you serious?

No translation is ever "the only possible translation".

~

Translator Vincent Hunink (2012) p.355 (Nawoord):

"Apuleius laat zijn Romeinse lezers genieten van allerlei literaire spelletjes, via citaten, toespelingen, spiegelingen en parodieen. Voor wie zijn klassieken kent is de roman een feest van herkenning en verbazing. En dan te bedenken dat we ongetwijfeld nog heel veel missen, omdat Apuleius natuurlijk ook verwijst naar teksten die niet bewaard zijn gebleven."

Well, as most people never think of circles or Jol wheels (but of runes and Roman script instead) when they see the OLB script for the first time, I don't think that even when they do speak Latin they will automatically think "in modum rotae". But yes, AFTER they see the explaining lettersheet, then they will probably come up with that.

You did that too and so you do think now that 'in modum rotae' means nothing else but the Jol script,

You studied the OLB and are therefore quite biased. That's what's called 'hineininterpretieren'. That has nothing to do with being a 'good understander' (I will bet there's a better translation for 'goed verstaander', lol).

++++

Yes, I am serious.

Shaped like a wheel, or looking like a wheel or having the form of a wheel is not the same as 'based on a wheel'.

The OLB script itself is an example: it is BASED on a wheel, but its letters DO NOT LOOK LIKE a wheel, or have the form of a wheel.

.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Shaped like a wheel, or looking like a wheel or having the form of a wheel is not the same as 'based on a wheel'.

I give up.

Our minds are incompatible.

[Abramelin]

And my problem is that you claim this:

Apuleius was mentioning the JOL (6-spoke wheel) script.

.... based on nothing but 3 words meaning, according to you, "based on a wheel".

If Apuleius had said "based on a wheel with six spokes", then I would say you won jackpot, because as far as I know no other script is based on a wheel with 6 spokes.

And as it is not even sure the 3 words "in modum rotae" should be translated that way, you base your claim on almost nothing.

Now, if you had said something like that it is a possibility that Apuleius may have hinted at the OLB script, then that would have been a different thing for me.