Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Otharus]

Now, if you had said something like that it is a possibility that Apuleius may have hinted at the OLB script, then that would have been a different thing for me.

Was it not obvious enough that it is a theory and not a hard fact?

Next time I will be more explicit.

[Abramelin]

No, it wasn't obvious, because you claimed that:

"Apuleius was mentioning the JOL (6-spoke wheel) script."

[Otharus]

No, it wasn't obvious

Read context and don't try to appear dumber than you are.

If it was hard-fact, I would not have posted here, but written a press release.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

For the record, to show that "ROTA" in Apuleius' "The Golden Ass" (a.k.a. Metamorphoses) is also used to refer to the 'solar wheel':

Liber IX-28

"cum primum rota solis lucida diem peperit"

"with the first light the solar wheel gave birth to the day" (?)

Hunink, Dutch (2012): "zodra het lichtende zonnewiel de dag baarde..."

(Kenney, 1998: "As soon as it was light".)

Edited August 22, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

OK, I know you will say I don't know the next thing about Latin (which is somewhat true, lol), but 'rota' - and that is according to Google Translator - has several meanings:

wheel, trindle, disk (disc orbis), wagon, vehicle, chariot.

So your rota solis could also mean 'sun disk' or 'sun chariot'.

And the last one, 'solar chariot' was kind of popular in ancient times.

The sculpture is dated by the Nationalmuseet to about 1800 to 1600 BCE, though other dates have been suggested. Unfortunately it was found before pollen-dating was developed, which would have enabled a more confident dating.

A model of a horse-drawn vehicle on spoked wheels in Northern Europe at such an early time is surprising; they would not be expected to appear until the end of the Late Bronze Age, which ranges from 1100 BC to 550 BC. This and aspects of the decoration may suggest a Danubian origin or influence in the object, although the Nationalmuseet is confident it is of Nordic origin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trundholm_sun_chariot

.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

modum rota might be a form of what they call round hand, a type of fancy cursive.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Round_hand

rota really meaning 'go around' - like a wheel is round but it also goes around and around, it ROTAtes.

It's not the wheel itself, it's the motion the wheel makes.

I love that Trundholm Chariot, it would have to be one of my favourite archaeological pieces ever.

Edited August 23, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Otharus]

Notes on the word "Scyth".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Oswald Szemerényi devotes a thorough discussion to the etymologies of ancient ethnic words for the Scythians in his work "Four old Iranian ethnic names: Scythian – Skudra – Sogdian – Saka". In it the names of Herodotus and the names of his title, except Saka, as well as many other words for "Scythian," such as Assyrian Aškuz and Greek Skuthēs, descend from *skeud-, an ancient Indo-European root meaning "propel, shoot" (cf. English shoot).

to shoot - english

schießen (schiessen) - german (scheißen = to sh1t)

skyde - danish

skjuta - swedish

skyte - norwegian

skjóta - icelandic

schieten - dutch (schijten = to sh1t)

skiete - westfrisian (skaite = to sh1t)

sjitte, sketten - newfrisian (skite = to sh1t)

SKIATA - OLB and Oldfrisian

It looks like the Norwegian and the Westfrisian word for "to shoot" are still closest (sounding) to the Greek "Skyth".

(Also, the verbs to shoot and to sh1t might be etymologically related, since meaning and sound seem to have been originally nearly identical.)

[The Puzzler]

Notes on the word "Scyth".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Oswald Szemerényi devotes a thorough discussion to the etymologies of ancient ethnic words for the Scythians in his work "Four old Iranian ethnic names: Scythian – Skudra – Sogdian – Saka". In it the names of Herodotus and the names of his title, except Saka, as well as many other words for "Scythian," such as Assyrian Aškuz and Greek Skuthēs, descend from *skeud-, an ancient Indo-European root meaning "propel, shoot" (cf. English shoot).

to shoot - english

schießen (schiessen) - german (scheißen = to sh1t)

skyde - danish

skjuta - swedish

skyte - norwegian

skjóta - icelandic

schieten - dutch (schijten = to sh1t)

skiete - westfrisian (skaite = to sh1t)

sjitte, sketten - newfrisian (skite = to sh1t)

SKIATA - OLB and Oldfrisian

It looks like the Norwegian and the Westfrisian word for "to shoot" are still closest (sounding) to the Greek "Skyth".

(Also, the verbs to shoot and to sh1t might be etymologically related, since meaning and sound seem to have been originally nearly identical.)

I think there is also a connection there to ski and skate = propel (later shoot).

To ski = to propel

skiete - westfrisian shoot also says skate imo - leading me to think the words skate, ski and shoot are all forms of skeud-/propel.

Probably skid as well.

[The Puzzler]

I have a Scottish friend - she says sh1te for sh1t and skyte for talking sh1t - the form is there - skyte and schieten - for the one meaning - to propel sh1t from one's mouth = to skite

I'd agree Otharus that they are etymologically related. The propulsion is the key, from your mouth or ass, it's both the same, lol.

Edited August 23, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

I have done some 'word juggling too, lol.

The Scythians were also called Saka or Sacae. Are these nothing but two different names with no etymological relationship?

Well, maybe "Sagittarius" is closer to their original name?? The Sagittas??

A 'sagittarius' is a mythological beast, a centaur carrying a bow and arrow, but essentially a mythologized (??) form of a human riding a horse, or better, of archers practically living on horseback, just like the Scythians

And 'sagitta' is Latin for arrow:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=sagittarius&searchmode=none

All the sk't forms have to do with shooting and moving fast. That's an arrow alright.

The Scythians were a nomadic tribe that dominated the steppes for nearly five hundred years (From the 8th to approximately the 3rd Centuries BC). The Scythians spoke a tongue from the Northeastern Iranian language family. The Scythians were renowned for their ability to shoot their arrows with deadly accuracy from horseback. This talent astounded their neighbors, who referred to them as the “horse-bowmen.”

http://listverse.com/2010/01/05/top-10-interesting-facts-about-the-scythians/

Sagittarius

constellation, late 14c., from L., lit. "archer," properly "pertaining to arrows," from sagitta "arrow," which probably is from a pre-Latin Mediterranean language.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=sagitta

A pre-Latin Mediterranean language??

Fred Hamori, a controversial linguist, says:

We know relatively little of the early Scythian language, except that it came from ancient Anatolia and therefore it may be related to the languages of that region such as Hattic, Hurrian, Subarian. Indeed if these are used as a guide much of the language of these "real Scythians" from 6century BC to the 2nd century BC can be decyphered, whereas they cannot be understood with the help of Iranian languages. Only the later Sauromata and later pseudo Scyth language remains can be understood with Iranian. To make the confusion more complete, the conquering Sauromata also must have absorbed large Scythic elements which often kept many of their old customs, but were forced to change their languages. Therefore outwardly they must have seemed to be the same people. The explosion of Scythic peoples in the east could not just be a population explosion of one people but the whole conquered patchwork of peoples.

http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/scytha.html

About the origin of the name Massagetae, scholars have emphasized that:

"The classical and modern authorities say that the word "Massagetae" means "great" Getae. The ninth-century work De Universo of Rabanus Maurus states, "The Massagetae are in origin from the tribe of the Scythians, and are called Massagetae, as if heavy, that is, strong Getae."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massagetae

There is scholarly consensus that Dacian was a member of the Indo-European family of languages. These descended, according to the two leading theories of the expansion of IE languages, from a proto-Indo European (proto-IE) tongue that originated in an urheimat ("original homeland") in S. Russia/ Caucasus region, (Kurgan hypothesis) or in central Anatolia (Anatolian hypothesis). According to both theories, proto-IE reached the Carpathian region no later than ca. 2,500 BC.[11][12] Supporters of both theories have suggested this region as IE's secondary urheimat, in which the differentiation of proto-IE into the various European language-groups (e.g. Italic, Germanic, Balto-Slavic, Celtic) began. There is thus considerable support for the thesis that Dacian developed in the Carpathian region during the third millennium BC, although its evolutionary pathways remains uncertain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getic_language

Pliny the Elder in his Naturalis Historia mentions a tribe called the Tyragetae,[47] apparently a Daco-Thracian tribe who dwelt by the river Tyras (the Dniester). Their tribal name appears to be a combination of Tyras and Getae; cf. the names Thyssagetae and Massagetae.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae

In short:

-1- the name of the Scythians may have come for some word for 'shooting'

-2- both the names, Scythian and Sacae/Saka may have come from one single (Anatolian? Eastern Mediterranean?) word that was preserved in the Latin language as "sagitta' meaning 'arrow'.

-3- Their tribal name may have nothing to do with 'shooting' or 'arrow' at all, but may have been an abbreviation for Scythian tribes like the Massagetae and the Thyssagetae >> Mas-Sagetae & Thys-Sagetae.

Damn, this is fun !!

[Otharus]

Interesting Puzzler, thanks for adding that.

~

From today's newspaper (Trouw), and relevant IMO in the issue of Dutch 19th century culture politics.

"Local authorities sometimes subsidized the performing arts. But this was more out of fear than out of love for theater; a stipulation about these subsidies from Amsterdam in 1835 mentions the urgency 'to regulate popular entertainment, in order to dominate the popular spirit and prevent undesirable extremes'."

=> mind control!

Article title: "Iconen van Amsterdam" (Icons of Amsterdam).

Original text: "En door de locale overheid werden de podiumkunsten ook wel gesubsidieerd. Hoewel dit meer uit angst dan uit liefde voor het toneel gebeurde; in een Amsterdamse bepaling over die subsidies uit 1835 gaat het over de noodzaak om 'het volksvermaak te regelen, daardoor de volksgeest te leiden en alle verkeerde uitersten te voorkomen."

What has been will be again,

what has been done will be done again;

there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9

[Otharus]

Damn, this is fun !!

Isn't it?

The better you'll get at it, the more fun it will become.

[Abramelin]

Isn't it?

The better you'll get at it, the more fun it will become.

Well, the second part of my post (about the Massagetae and the Thyssagetae) came as sort of a surprize to me.

But then their original name wasn't Scythae, but Getae, with a later added prefix, 'SA-' or even shorter, 'S-'

I know it doesn't have much to do with the OLB, but in itself it's rather interesting.

[Abramelin]

From today's newspaper (Trouw), and relevant IMO in the issue of Dutch 19th century culture politics.

"Local authorities sometimes subsidized the performing arts. But this was more out of fear than out of love for theater; a stipulation about these subsidies from Amsterdam in 1835 mentions the urgency 'to regulate popular entertainment, in order to dominate the popular spirit and prevent undesirable extremes'."

=> mind control!

What has been will be again,

what has been done will be done again;

there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9

When I read that line I bolded, plus the year, 1835, I had to think of the Belgian Revolution:

On August 25, 1830 riots erupted in Brussels and shops were looted. Theatergoers who had just watched La muette de Portici at the Monnaie theater house, joined the uproar and windows were smashed. Uprisings followed elsewhere in the country. Factories were occupied and machinery destroyed. Order was restored briefly after William committed troops to the Southern Provinces but rioting continued and leadership was seized by more radical elements, who started talking of secession.

http://en.wikipedia....gian_Revolution

Could what you quoted from today's newspaper not have to do with what happened in Belgium at that time?

=

Btw, nice quote from Ecclesiastes. It's about the only book from the Bible I really like.

.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Could what you quoted from today's newspaper not have to do with what happened in Belgium at that time?

Sure, but not only I think.

Some of Verdi's opera's were also political and meant to inspire revolution (against the Austrian occupation)

Art can have that effect.

I recently copied this quote from an interview with filmmaker Nicolas Winding Refn:

"Art is an act of violence.

Art and war are very similar.

The same DNA's.

A lot of times the objective is the same.

But where war destroys, art inspires."

Btw, nice quote from Ecclesiastes. It's about the only book from the Bible I really like.

I hadn't read it before, just wanted to use the (what I believed to be a) Dutch expression "niets nieuws onder de zon", not knowing it was from the Bible.

This (from same book) is very true too:

For in much wisdom is much grief:

and he that increaseth knowledge

increaseth sorrow. (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

Alas! It is true.

Philosophy (Dutch: wijsbegeerte = desire for wisdom) is like other addictions.

One keeps needing more of it.

[Abramelin]

Sure, but not only I think.

Some of Verdi's opera's were also political and meant to inspire revolution (against the Austrian occupation)

Art can have that effect.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant: people watch a movie/play/opera and get inspired to act it out.

And after the Belgian theater event the Dutch authorities got a bit nervous and wanted some sort of 'control' concerning what was being shown in theaters.

For in much wisdom is much grief:

and he that increaseth knowledge

increaseth sorrow.

I have an alternative (and contradictory) saying:

"Life is a sh1t sandwich: the more bread you eat, the less sh1t you taste"

And 'bread' I consider to be knowledge, although most consider it to be 'distraction' or 'entertainment'.

++++++

EDIT:

The next one is really great (I wanted to use it in this thread, long time ago), but it appears to be a non-existent or recently fabricated saying (alas):

“The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.”

From an Assyrian tablet, written circa 2800 BC.

http://mikeblyth.blo...t-complain.html

.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

Yes interesting, Sagittarius and Scythian/Saka imo are related - for sure. Especially since g and c are interchangeable letters.

[Van Gorp]

Yes interesting, Sagittarius and Scythian/Saka imo are related - for sure. Especially since g and c are interchangeable letters.

Maybe not only the Scytisch name has a meaning, also the other mentionned could have a well meaning name.

Scythen -> Sie die scieten, boogschutters

(allready mentioned by Puz I think: schieten/schijten/scheiden are alike, it’s a handling of seperating something)

Scoten -> uit-schot, litteraly: gescheiden van de rest (bannelinge?)

Sacae -> Saxe -> s’ Haechs-en -> those living in the forest

Saxones -> s’ Haechs-Hohen -> those living in the higher forests

Sogdiana -> s’Hochde-Anne-n -> those who are from the near and higher regions

In history it is not always clear if we have to do with separate people or just another name, all meaningfull given at the the same people. Or otherwise, the same meaningfull name at people living in distant regions.

[Otharus]

Some notes on words for (folk-) tale.

tale ==> to tell, tala (swedish), vertellen (dutch), "taal" is dutch for "language"

saga ==> to say, sagen (german), zeggen (dutch)

sprook (dutch, usually as diminutive: "sprookje") ==> to speak, spreken (dutch, sprechen (german)

mär (german, usually as diminutive: "märchen") ==> mērijan (protogermanic: to tell, announce), (night-)mare!

~

We focus on written sources but must stay aware that oral history is much, much older.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Otharus

[Van Gorp]

That gives some thought …

Further on Sage and Tale (Zeggen in Taal).

The clue of the story is always in it’s tale.

Sage -> ver-telsel, tale, dialogue, moraliserend, wijzen op (seg zaagt es niet)

Sage (Sache) -> wijs, wijzen (zeigen in german, togen in flemish, look at the man in toga), weten (de ru-wijzen, druizen, de reuzen), ru as in rule, what governs (der hohe stands in highest position, de roe van zwarte piet-> le roi, rood, red is his color)

Seche -> droog, ter-hoge. If we want to keep it dry (droog), we put it high (ter-hoog). Ter-ho’s is standing our terras. Iemand de les spellen/domineren/over-treffen -> af-drogen. Amai die kan zagen, wat een droog betoog is me dat jong ;-)

Heg, Haag, Hoog (Hek)-> grows high and leaves free the land for a secure living. Dat is zeker (s’heg-er) en veilig, we zijn verzekerd van onze veiligheid (secured of our freedom).

If you can crack the code you have a break through, and you are a real hek-ker.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Van Gorp

[Abramelin]

God, have mercy....

[Van Gorp]

:-) Merci

[Abramelin]

We have Minoans showing up in the German Bight 1400 BC (and maybe in Scandinavia at 1700 BC), and now this:

BA sherd has earliest depiction of boat in UK

The piece of pottery was found during archaeological excavations of a Late Bronze Age roundhouse on St Agnes, on the Isles of Scilly, in 2009, and some archaeologists believe it clearly shows etched lines that resemble a sailing ship.

Taylor believes the inscription could represent a Phoenecian trading vessel, which was blown off course and was seen by our Bronze Age forebears as it passed the Scillies.

“This would have been a remarkable sight worth commemorating, hence it being drawn on a pot," he says.

“However, masted boats are not known in this country until the first century BC. This sherd dates back to 1000-800BC confirming the importance and rarity of this object.”

http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.nl/2012/08/bronze-age-pottery-sherd-depicts.html#.UDpYtaDCSi0

[Van Gorp]

Hi all,

What puzzles me a bit is the mentionning of 'Skots' in OLB.

If the narrative is realy stemming from older times, shouldn't we relate this term more to the Irish people in stead of the now called Scottish people?

'Scotia' was in the beginning of it's use pointing to Ireland.Later on to Schotland as we use it now.

[Abramelin]

Good point.

Scotia was originally a Roman name for Ireland, inhabited by the people they called Scoti or Scotii. Use of the name shifted in the Middle Ages to designate the part of the island of Great Britain lying north of the Firth of Forth, the Kingdom of Alba. By the later Middle Ages it had become the fixed Latin term for what in English is called Scotland.

The name of Scotland is derived from the Latin Scoti, the term applied to Gaels. The origin of the word Scoti (or Scotti) is uncertain. It is found in Latin texts from the 4th century describing a tribe which sailed from Ireland to raid Roman Britain. It came to be applied to all the Gaels. It is not believed that any Gaelic groups called themselves Scoti in ancient times, except when writing in Latin. Old Irish documents use the term Scot (plural Scuit) going back as far as the 9th century, for example in the glossary of Cormac úa Cuilennáin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotia

.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Abramelin