Abramelin Posted October 15, 2012 Author #1426 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't think the people of Latium were speaking Hittite - until the Romans came in, then this language overtook most of the original Latium language (pre-archaic Latin), so there should be a language in Latium that precedes Roman, with Roman Late Latin being a straight connection to Hittite IE. The Julii family (think 'Julius Caesar') moved from Alba Longa to Rome. You think they changed their language along the way? I think they spoke (an archaic form of) Latin, an nothing related to Hittite (unless you go back thousands of years, to PIE) Just read something in Hittite, and you will know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted October 15, 2012 Author #1427 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Gk alphos - should relate to alpha - meaning highest, top most - as the clouds were - alb/alt mean high because the clouds were high and they were white so this form spread to 'white' - and altars were at 'high places' too, so imo, altars were originally mountain ridges that reached into the sky, touching the clouds. This concept is ancient, with the mountain ridge actually holding UP the sky and the clouds, hence when it collapsed, the sky fell down. Altars my have been on mountain ridges, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is an etymological connection. And altars were not only erected on high places. altar (n.) O.E. alter, altar, from L. altare (pl. altaria) "high altar, altar for sacrifice to the great gods," perhaps originally meaning "burnt offerings" (cf. L. adolere "to worship, to offer sacrifice, to honor by burning sacrifices to"), but influenced by L. altus "high." http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=altar&searchmode=none . Edited October 15, 2012 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted October 15, 2012 #1428 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Am I the first one to see this? SOCRATES => SOK-RAT = ZOEK-RAAD = seek counsel/ advice Edited October 15, 2012 by Otharus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1429 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Am I the first one to see this? SOCRATES => SOK-RAT = ZOEK-RAAD = seek counsel/ advice I don't know but I felt the same way when I saw this: jæ-l-lik , afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. jõ-hwe-lik http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-J.pdf jõl-lik = jã-hwe-lik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1430 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) The Julii family (think 'Julius Caesar') moved from Alba Longa to Rome. You think they changed their language along the way? I think they spoke (an archaic form of) Latin, an nothing related to Hittite (unless you go back thousands of years, to PIE) Just read something in Hittite, and you will know what I mean. The Julii family were RELOCATED to Rome, after Hostilius burned Alba Longa to the ground. Where did the name Julii come from, sounding alot like Jul, which would have been an important concept in Alba Longa, if the Latium people were indeed Fryan. I am going back to PIE, which I think is non-existant and is actually the Fryan/Frisian language. Edited October 15, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1431 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Altars my have been on mountain ridges, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is an etymological connection. And altars were not only erected on high places. altar (n.) O.E. alter, altar, from L. altare (pl. altaria) "high altar, altar for sacrifice to the great gods," perhaps originally meaning "burnt offerings" (cf. L. adolere "to worship, to offer sacrifice, to honor by burning sacrifices to"), but influenced by L. altus "high." http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none . A high, long altar, exactly what Alba Longa was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1432 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Revelation 1:8, KJV— I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending... http://www.sabbathcovenant.com/doctrine/yahwehthe_alpha_and_omega.htm Wr-alda is the beginning and the end. http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted October 15, 2012 Author #1433 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Revelation 1:8, KJV— I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending... http://www.sabbathco...a_and_omega.htm Wr-alda is the beginning and the end. http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#be Yeah, the Alpha and the Omega. You'll remember the 'adapted' Chi-Rho sign, at its left the alpha and at its right the omega. Like the characters of the name Wralda are positioned around the Yule wheel... Just wait a sec,,, EDIT: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=8835#entry4148265 A high, long altar, exactly what Alba Longa was. But etymologically unconnected. . Edited October 15, 2012 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1434 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Yeah, the Alpha and the Omega. You'll remember the 'adapted' Chi-Rho sign, at its left the alpha and at its right the omega. Like the characters of the name Wralda are positioned around the Yule wheel... Just wait a sec,,, EDIT: http://www.unexplain...35#entry4148265 But etymologically unconnected. . Yeah the Chi Rho. Don't bother finding it, it didn't interest me that much. It was more to compare how Yahweh and Wralda are given the same classification and Jul-like means ja-hwe-lik. The etymology is not going to stare you in the face or it would be solved by now. I still say altar in Frisian means alt - high and alba and also alpash, cloud. altar is not all about religion - it's about elevated, high. an elevated place structure or a ledge for supporting the feet of shorings http://dictionary.re...om/browse/altar Edited October 15, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1435 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) This Brit-Am article talks about how Frisians are actually Israelites, probably seen it...mentions King Adel in India... Frisian-legends related that a certain King Adel was a descendant of Shem. King Adel in India had three sons: Friso, Bruno, and Saxo. Le Petit says that Friso, Bruno, and Saxo lived in India. http://www.britam.org/redjews.html But King Adel was bringing back original Fryan descendants, whose ancestors had previously left Frisia... Edited October 15, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted October 15, 2012 Author #1436 Share Posted October 15, 2012 This Brit-Am article talks about how Frisians are actually Israelites, probably seen it...mentions King Adel in India... Frisian-legends related that a certain King Adel was a descendant of Shem. King Adel in India had three sons: Friso, Bruno, and Saxo. Le Petit says that Friso, Bruno, and Saxo lived in India. http://www.britam.org/redjews.html But King Adel was bringing back original Fryan descendants, whose ancestors had previously left Frisia... Unbelievable, you really going to start all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1437 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Unbelievable, you really going to start all over again. No, just putting up something that might be of interest to new people and showing it's actually out there that Frisians are an Israelite type, but not the way that article has it. But if I have to, I will. Edited October 15, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted October 15, 2012 Author #1438 Share Posted October 15, 2012 No, just putting up something that might be of interest to new people and showing it's actually out there that Frisians are an Israelite type, but not the way that article has it. But if I have to, I will. I know the site; instead of quoting directly from that site, you better check their sources first,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted October 15, 2012 #1439 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) SOCRATES => SOK-RAT = ZOEK-RAAD = seek counsel/ advice al-Kindi, a well-known Arabic philosopher, introduced and tried to reconcile Socrates and Hellenistic philosophy to an Islamic audience, referring to him by the name 'Suqrat'. (wiki/Socrates) => just like I said: Soeck Raedt! OLB: BOK English: book Dutch: boek German: buch Swedish: bok OLB: GOD English: good Dutch: goed German: gut Swedish: gott OLB: SOK English: 'sook' (seek, search) Dutch: 'soek' (zoek) German: such Swedish: sök OLB: RÉD English: 'read' (counsel, advice) Dutch: raad, rede German: rat Swedish: råd I am not kidding. Van Gorp, do you know if one of the Flemish etymologists ever came with this one? Edited October 15, 2012 by Otharus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted October 15, 2012 #1440 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Or: zoek (het) rad = seek (the) wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted October 15, 2012 #1441 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Ok, a summary of my reasons why I think the OLB is not what it is supposed to be, an authentic MS of ancient European history. Lets refine the question. You believe it is a 19th century hoax. I believe it is a 13th century manuscript (or a copy of it). If it is a (copy of a) 13th C. manuscript, that does not mean that all information in it has to be true, as in theory it could still all be fiction. This already disqualifies several of your arguments, does it not? So why - in your opinion - does it have to be a 19th C. hoax and can it not be a (copy of a) 13th C. manuscript? Or can it? Edited October 15, 2012 by Otharus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Gorp Posted October 15, 2012 #1442 Share Posted October 15, 2012 al-Kindi, a well-known Arabic philosopher, introduced and tried to reconcile Socrates and Hellenistic philosophy to an Islamic audience, referring to him by the name 'Suqrat'. (wiki/Socrates) => just like I said: Soeck Raedt! OLB: BOK English: book Dutch: boek German: buch Swedish: bok OLB: GOD English: good Dutch: goed German: gut Swedish: gott OLB: SOK English: 'sook' (seek, search) Dutch: 'soek' (zoek) German: such Swedish: sök OLB: RÉD English: 'read' (counsel, advice) Dutch: raad, rede German: rat Swedish: råd I am not kidding. Van Gorp, do you know if one of the Flemish etymologists ever came with this one? Nice link Otharus :-) I never came across this etymologie for Socrates, but it is meaningfull. People did ask for his advice. There is a similar one for RadBoud: Raad-Bode (Schrieck) For Socrates Schrieck mentions 's Hoger-heid's (see the pointing finger to the sky). As opposed to Ar-ist-ot-eles (lowering hand) -> Er-wist-het-alles beter, pedant kereltje :-) Socrates at least aknowledged himself that he only knew for sure not knowing it. In that way he advised people to discuss the truth in order to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1443 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) I know the site; instead of quoting directly from that site, you better check their sources first,. I'm not saying the site is right so don't care about it's sources - I was curious if anyone else had seen the Frisian/Hebrew connection and that site doesn't even align with what I or the OLB says, I don't even know why I bothered, I should have known you'd jump on it. I hope you finally got the 'point' here, not the 'arm', which you didn't comment on, so I'll repost, in case you missed it. Same website you linked Abe... "Suspended in mid-air, yod is the smallest of the Hebrew letters, the 'atom' of the consonants, and the form of which all the other letters begin and end. The first dot with which the scribes start writing a letter, or the last dot that gives the letter it's final form - is the yod. In the Jewish mystical tradition, yod represents a mere dot, a divine point of energy. Since yod is used to produce all the other letters, and since God uses the letters as the building blocks of creation, yod indicates God's omnipresence. Yod is considered the starting point of the presence of God in all things - the "spark" of the spirit in all things." http://www.hebrew4ch...et/Yod/yod.html Edited October 15, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1444 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Nice link Otharus :-) I never came across this etymologie for Socrates, but it is meaningfull. People did ask for his advice. There is a similar one for RadBoud: Raad-Bode (Schrieck) For Socrates Schrieck mentions 's Hoger-heid's (see the pointing finger to the sky). As opposed to Ar-ist-ot-eles (lowering hand) -> Er-wist-het-alles beter, pedant kereltje :-) Socrates at least aknowledged himself that he only knew for sure not knowing it. In that way he advised people to discuss the truth in order to find it. This is actually for Otharus. This site says his name means this, but I'm all for different etymology attempts... Meaning & History From the Greek name Σωκρατης (Sokrates), which was derived from σως (sos) "whole, unwounded, safe" and κρατος (kratos) "power". This was the name of an important Greek philosopher. He left no writings of his own; virtually everything that we know of his beliefs comes from his pupil Plato. He was sentenced to death for impiety. http://www.behindthe...m/name/socrates All the finger pointing from Socrates and Plato reminds me of YOD/OD in fact. Edited October 15, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 15, 2012 #1445 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Or: zoek (het) rad = seek (the) wheel How about Socrates = sõkia-seek râdia-put in order http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-S.pdf http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-R.pdf That's how I'd see him - seeking to put things in order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 16, 2012 #1446 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) râ-d-ia , afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. ordnen, bereiten; ne. put in order; The interesting thing with this word imo - is that it seems to connect to Sami Radien Attje - who is Wralden Olmai (Wralda). I do see rêd in the OLB translated as advice though. Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten rÐ-d-a (1) 4, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. raten, überlegen (V.), helfen; ne. advise, consider, help Edited October 16, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 16, 2012 #1447 Share Posted October 16, 2012 While reading stuff, I found a reference to shamans producing 'imagery', which immediately hit me as a meaning for Magyar, or Magi, who who can produce magic - imagery. Not that it's probably a Fryan word, since they were already called that when they arrived. Not really relative to anything except I thought it made an interesting connection to what a Magyar does. The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magyars, and their headman Magy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 16, 2012 #1448 Share Posted October 16, 2012 früchda aend nochta anda drâma frou-d-e 1, afries., F.: nhd. Freude; ne. delight fru-ch-t 10, afries., st. F. (æ), st. M. (a): nhd. Frucht; ne. fruit Wiki says that IN FACT (how they know this as fact I dunno) that Freya's name comes from the meaning for 'lady', which is FROU in West Frisian. frou-w-e 50 und häufiger?, fro-w-e, afries., sw. F. (n): nhd. Frau, Herrin, Schwiegermutter; ne. lady, mother-in-law; ÜG.: lat. mõtræna W 2, L 23; Vw.: s. ju-n-g-, klâ-st-er-, liõf-, mun-ek-, -lik, *-lik-hê-d; Hw.: vgl. as. frða*, ahd. frouwa*; Q.: B, E, H, W, S, W 2, L 23; E.: germ. *fræwæ-, *fræwæn, sw. F. (n), Herrin, Frau; s. idg. *prÅøo-, Präp., vorwärts, vorn, Pokorny 815; vgl. idg. *per- (2A), Präp., vorwärts, über, hinaus, durch, Pokorny 810; W.: nfries. frouw, F., Frau; L.: frou-w-e-lik 1, fro-w-e-lik, afries., Adj.: nhd. was eine Frau betrifft, fraulich; ne. womanly; Q.: E; E.: s. frou-w-e, -lik (3); L.: Hh 32b, Rh 769a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted October 16, 2012 #1449 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I also think nochta and drama is actually referring to 'night dreams'. - nightly dreams - night/nochte(still) noch-te 1 und häufiger?, nach-te, afries., Adv.: nhd. noch; ne. still nacht=night in the OLB. 'The still of the night'. früchda aend nochta anda drâma delight in their nightly dreams drâ-m * 7, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Traum; ne. dream Edited October 16, 2012 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otharus Posted October 16, 2012 #1450 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thanks for the comments Goropius and Puzzler. OLB: SOKEnglish: 'sook' (seek, search) Dutch: 'soek' (zoek) German: such Swedish: sök OLB: RÉD English: 'read' (counsel, advice), rationality, reason Dutch: raad, rede, rationaliteit German: rat Swedish: råd RÉD / RAD / RAT is also the root for rationality, so the name Sokrat (Arab: Suqrat) is practically synonymous to philosophy (Dutch: wijsbegeerte = desire for wisdom). Who would dare to claim that this is a coincidence? Combined with all the other Oldfrisian- (or Oldgermanic if one prefers) based etymologies of Greek names and toponyms (that make more sense than the existing ones), it provides a favorable challenge to the old paradigm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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