Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Abramelin]

Yes, I do actually, it's no secret on UM I think the Trojan War actually occurred around 900-800BC, I think I even started a topic on it once.

I can't find that thread of yours. You mean a really old one (and therefor maybe archived), or the recent one about Trojans and Basques?

[The Puzzler]

I can't find that thread of yours. You mean a really old one (and therefor maybe archived), or the recent one about Trojans and Basques?

I had a bit of a search..

I found it 3 or so times in these threads of mine, not the Trojans were Basques thread.

That is why I sort of think it might fit better around 900BC because of the timeframe of these Ionians coming into Asia Minor, I mentioned that date once before but no one really went much on it.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=189289&st=0&p=3554499&hl=+trojan%20+war%20+900bcentry3554499

I started another thread but basically deleted it, because apparently I'd discussed it a few months before and would have been repeating myself, that was this thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=165701&hl=

and this is where I'd discussed it some months beforehand...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127987&hl=

Edited October 22, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Otharus]

The Old-Greek word λόγος (logos) is "an important term in philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion". (wikipedia/Logos)

It is still used in words ending with -logy (biology etc.), logarithm, etc.

I suspect that it is related to the Old-Frisian word LOGA (flame).

The flame is associated with the tongue.

Vlam: "Min of meer tongvormig, of als zoodanig gedacht of voorgesteld zichtbaar verbrandingsverschijnsel..." (http://gtb.inl.nl)

(=> "more or less tongue-shaped...)

vlam [tongvormig verbrandingsverschijnsel] (P.A.F. van Veen en N. van der Sijs (1997), Van Dale Etymologisch woordenboek)

(=> again: "tongue-shaped ..."

In OLB it is used as LOGHA at the following pages/lines:

[049/22]

[066/07]

[082/32]

[084/16]

[084/23]

[120/27]

[162/14] 2x

Compare relation tongue/ speech: (Latin) LINGUA - language, tongue.

[Otharus]

Classic etymology relates logos to the verb legein - to speak.

In Dutch we use liegen (past: loog) for to lie.

[The Puzzler]

Just for the record I'll backtrack on alda equating to all-the for the reason I don't think 'the' can come after 'all' and mean 'the all'.

[The Puzzler]

The Old-Greek word λόγος (logos) is "an important term in philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion". (wikipedia/Logos)

It is still used in words ending with -logy (biology etc.), logarithm, etc.

I suspect that it is related to the Old-Frisian word LOGA (flame).

The flame is associated with the tongue.

Vlam: "Min of meer tongvormig, of als zoodanig gedacht of voorgesteld zichtbaar verbrandingsverschijnsel..." (http://gtb.inl.nl)

(=> "more or less tongue-shaped...)

vlam [tongvormig verbrandingsverschijnsel] (P.A.F. van Veen en N. van der Sijs (1997), Van Dale Etymologisch woordenboek)

(=> again: "tongue-shaped ..."

In OLB it is used as LOGHA at the following pages/lines:

[049/22]

[066/07]

[082/32]

[084/16]

[084/23]

[120/27]

[162/14] 2x

Compare relation tongue/ speech: (Latin) LINGUA - language, tongue.

Not all that sure on that one.

I found an example here because I use the Angelfire OLB site which doesn't equate to your page references, but no matter, so it's clearly flame here: Thêrut flât swart blod a^end thêrvr swêfde-n blâwe logha.

It appears the word 'language' is tâle and 'tongue' is tonga.

Tha Wralda bern jêf an tha modera fon tha^et ma^enniskelik slachte, thâ lêid er êne tâle in aller tonga a^end vp aller lippa.

here's tale in Frisian dictionary: He gave them one speech in all tongues...

ta-l-e

40, te-l-e, afries., st. F. (æ): nhd. Zahl, Rede; ne. number, speech;

[Otharus]

I did not claim that LOGA / LOGHA means language or tongue in Old-Frisian, but since there is a strong association between flames and tongues, it is logically plausible that the word is related to the Greek version that is about speaking and language.

In Dutch it is common metaphor to say "flames licked ..." (vlammen likten ...).

(again, compare Latin: lingua = tongue, language)

Edited October 23, 2012 by Otharus

[The Puzzler]

I did not claim that LOGA / LOGHA means language or tongue in Old-Frisian, but since there is a strong association between flames and tongues, it is logically plausible that the word is related to the Greek version that is about speaking and language.

In Dutch it is common metaphor to say "flames licked ..." (vlammen likten ...).

(again, compare Latin: lingua = tongue, language)

No worries, was just adding some info regarding these words.

You think maybe logha could become logos based on? Through a meaning of flame, which had a connotation of tongue, which refered to speech? Maybe...

[Abramelin]

Old Dutch: liegon

Old Saxon: liogan

Middle Low German: legen

Old High German: liogan

New High Herman: lügen

Old Frisian: liāga

New Frisian: lige

Old English: lēogan

New English: lie

Old Norse: ljúga

New Swedish: ljuga

Gotic: liugan

Old Church Slavonic:lŭgati

Russian: lgat

Lithuanian: lugóti (= to request)

Related Dutch verb: lokken (= to lure)

Related Dutch word: loochenen (= to deny)

PGem: *luginō-

PIE: lugh-, *leugh- (IEW 686)

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/liegen

[Otharus]

Thanks Puzzler and Abe.

I would like to add the consideration that what λόγος (logos; the Word, reason) was in our culture (which is based on Greco-Christian thinking), the FODDIK (eternal, sacred fire, with its LOGHA; flames) seems to have been for the Fryans (as desribed in the OLB).

[Abramelin]

I had to think of another thing: the Celtic god LUG.

The etymology of Lugdunum is a latinization of the Gaulish place name Lugodunon. Gaulish was the predominant language of the region when conquered by the Romans. While dunon means hill fort, the source of Lug is uncertain. The most commonly offered meaning is the Celtic god named Lug, whose messenger was the crow (lugus), and who was associated with the ***.k (rooster), ultimately to become the symbol of France. Most references to Mercurius in Gaul really refer to Lug, as he was the Celtic god that the Romans considered to be Mercury (see interpretatio graeca for more about this practice). Lug was popular in Ireland and Britain, but there is no evidence of his cult or worship in Lugdunum, except for the apparent use of crows as an early symbol of the city. An alternative derivation is that lug refers to the Celtic word for light (a cognate of Latin lux and English light).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugdunum

The exact etymology of Lugus is unknown and contested. The Proto-Celtic root of the name, *lug-, is generally believed to have been derived from one of several different Proto-Indo-European roots, such as *leug- "black", *leuǵ- "to break",[4] and *leugʰ- "to swear an oath", It was once thought that the root may be derived from Proto-Indo-European *leuk- "to shine", but there are difficulties with this etymology and few modern scholars accept it as being possible (notably because Proto-Indo-European *-k- never produced Proto-Celtic *-g-).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus

A rooster calling at the dawn, a crow as a spiritual 'messenger' in many cultures around the globe..

LUG, seen by the Romans as no other god but their Mercury, the god of (also) speech, and communication in general. messages, writing, and so on.

Then a (possible but disputed) connection with bright, shining and light.

And last but not least, Overwijn (the third writer to publish a book, including a translation, about the OLB in 1941/1951) who tried to explain many words and names in the OLB using Celtic.

.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

and this is where I'd discussed it some months beforehand...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127987&hl=

Did I get that right, and is your source (of the end of the Trojan War being centuries more recent than the commonly accepted date) Immanuel Velikovsky?

.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

... Celtic god named Lug, whose messenger was the crow (lugus)...

lug refers to the Celtic word for light ... Latin lux...

*leugʰ- "to swear an oath"... *leuk- "to shine"

... crow as a spiritual 'messenger' ...

Mercury ... speech, and communication in general. messages, writing, and so on.

... bright, shining and light

Wonderful, Abe.

It makes sense to me:

foddik = fire = flames (tongues) = light = inspiration = messages = words = communication, etc.

Belachelijk leuk, aanlokkelijk gelukkig.

[Abramelin]

And if you knew my family name, you'd be really happy, hah.

Hint: the way Anglo-Saxons pronounce my surname makes them think of 'werewolves', lol.

.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

LOGA'S magic

when you look into a flame long enough it will turn into a tongue and start to speak

imagine long dark and quiet nights, no books, radio, tv, internet

act during the day

reflect during the night

I bet many great ideas started by looking at the moon, the stars and into flames at night.

~

I have no idea yet Abe.

But I can relate to werewolves, howling at the full moon.

[Abramelin]

"I have no idea yet Abe."

Lycan.

You know my first name, and you will know what middle name many Dutch people carry.

And 'Lycan' is how those Anglo-Saxons pronounce my surname.

And I told you "Vrank_Bouleen" is an anagram of my full name.

Damn, I will regret this when i wake up next morning.

[The Puzzler]

Old Dutch: liegon

Old Saxon: liogan

Middle Low German: legen

Old High German: liogan

New High Herman: lügen

Old Frisian: liāga

New Frisian: lige

Old English: lēogan

New English: lie

Old Norse: ljúga

New Swedish: ljuga

Gotic: liugan

Old Church Slavonic:lŭgati

Russian: lgat

Lithuanian: lugóti (= to request)

Related Dutch verb: lokken (= to lure)

Related Dutch word: loochenen (= to deny)

PGem: *luginō-

PIE: lugh-, *leugh- (IEW 686)

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/liegen

Interesting when the word 'to lie' was mentioned, then logha reminded me of log...

log (n.1) unshaped large piece of tree, early 14c., of unknown origin. O.N. had lag "felled tree" (from stem of liggja "to lie"), but on phonological grounds many etymologists deny that this is the root of English log. Instead, they suggest an independent formation meant to "express the notion of something massive by a word of appropriate sound." http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=log

Straight to hell... strange how logs burn, Yule Log for instance - methinks logs and flames and light are connected.

log-a

2, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Lohe, Flamme; ne. flame (N.); Hw.: vgl. an. logi

(1); Q.: W; E.: germ. *lugæ- (1), *lugæn, *luga- (1), *lugan, sw. M. (n), Flamme,

Lohe; germ. *laugi-, *laugiz, st. M. (i), Lohe, Flamme; s. idg. *leuk-, *leu¨-, V.,

Adj., licht, hell, leuchten, sehen, Pokorny 687; W.: nfries. leag; L.: Hh 67b, Rh

Edited October 24, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Like I said....sigh.

[Otharus]

LOGA is the link between Logos (the word) and Lux (the light)

To look, like, lick...?

Dutch: het lijkt ... / het schijnt ... (it appears, shines)

~

Abe just ask the mods to remove #39, 41, 43, 44.

(didn't know that w.w. related word and had forgotten about the a.g)

[lilthor]

Abe just ask the mods to remove #39, 41, 43, 44.

(didn't know that w.w. related word and had forgotten about the a.g)

I requested my post be removed and it was.

Still, as far as this thread goes, it's a great name for the keeper of 'the flame'.

[NO-ID-EA]

This is going to be your Lug connection guys

http://en.wikepedia.org/wiki/Lugh

Cant find where i saw it now but Lugh is celtic for Blasphemy,

read down ....Under Lugh's nature and name proto Indo-European root" Leuk ".....often considered a Sun God, similar to Apollo.......and historically only ever equated with Mercury.

became leader of the Tuatha de Danaan

Edited October 24, 2012 by NO-ID-EA

[Abramelin]

This is going to be your Lug connection guys

http://en.wikepedia.org/wiki/Lugh

Cant find where i saw it now but Lugh is celtic for Blasphemy,

read down ....Under Lugh's nature and name proto Indo-European root" Leuk ".....often considered a Sun God, similar to Apollo.......and historically only ever equated with Mercury.

became leader of the Tuatha de Danaan

So you didn't even read what I posted.

Btw, I don't know why, but my anti-virus software screamed bloody murder when I clicked on your link.

-

"Lugh" Celtic for 'blasphemy'. Well, its stem is also related to 'lie'.

[Van Gorp]

Interesting, first feeling is "How to reconcile the meaning of (sun)light (of the truth) with the lie"

-> Blinding light, we can't see clear. Laaiend enthusiast zijn we dan.

Liegen, loochenen, lokken -> verblinden.

Leuk is aan-lokkelijk: we get attracted by the light it transmits. But sometimes also blinded by it.

Other expressions: Liegen dat em zwart ziet (or he's lieing untill his nose becomes black or smoke above his head, from fire offcourse)

Alok: Indian name for Light (Hel-lig, Al Hoog, Halo).

[Van Gorp]

Some other linguisitc connections (maybe allready mentionned, but it's amusing)

op-lichten: giving light but also to cheat

op-luchten: dat licht op, zuiverend, make pure

er licht/lucht over gaan, doodleuk, luchtig, een klucht -> joke, jokken, liegen

de luchter/luster: the holder of candles -> met veel luister gebracht -> erin geluisd

Edited October 25, 2012 by Van Gorp

[Van Gorp]

Luck(y) me.

Gelukkig is het me ge-lukt -> de laks-moes test

Lekken/likken, verghuld laagje verf (weer-af) of lak, layer after layer, leugen bedekt -> leer looien: lijkt weer nieuw -> I like, lekker lijkt me dat, lijkt me wel wat, vind ik leuk I laugh

To like, to look, to appear (lijkt wel echt). Look (oignons), luik, ontluikend. Layer after layer.

Ik ben de peul-schil, de klos. Wa ne klosser is me dat, warboel -> geraakt daar maar aan uit. En als ik helemaal ture-luurs ben heb ik een stuk in mijne klos.

Lok, holding together: haar-lok, locked, sluik kapsel of sluiks of sluikstorter (not openly, clôture, closed).