Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

It's a matter of matching up who the incoming Magyar and Finns were to where a place called Aldland might have sunk that they might have come from.

If the flooding was in the Tarim Basin, the people there might be the Magyar/Finns or it could even be that the Uralic language actually came from there, and spread with the Magyar as they left Aldland 4000 years ago, bringing the Uralic language closer to the Urals.

[Abramelin]

<snip>

And yes, the suggestion that Inka was a kind of Columbus who went west to find the Old Land in Asia had also been said. I know I even posted about Columbus actually thinking that Eden (the Old Land) was somewhere in Asia, but I'd have to look up that post again to be sure.

<snip>

Couldn't find the post where I posted the copied piece of text, but here's something:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=5100#entry3913283

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=7275#entry4108266

[cormac mac airt]

These settlers were of Asian ancestry - ok, not Mongoloid, but Asiatic ancestry, which I think Mongoloid used to be a common term for.

These estimates are consistent with archeological data that suggest that the first settlers were Uralic speakers who arrived ~4,000 years ago

It would be this group who are the incoming Magyar and Finns imo, going by the time frame of 4000 years ago.

The first mention of a Uralic people is in Tacitus's Germania,^[4] mentioning the Fenni (usually interpreted as referring to the Sami) and two other possibly Uralic tribes living in the farthest reaches of Scandinavia.

Uralic Urheimat: P. Hajdu has suggested a homeland in western and northwestern Siberia

http://en.wikipedia....ralic_languages

This does not make them of Mongolian/Tarim Basin origin and that's the point. Particularly since none of the actual haplogroups involved in the Finns origin originate in or around the Tarim Basin/Mongolia area.

cormac

[Abramelin]

It's a matter of matching up who the incoming Magyar and Finns were to where a place called Aldland might have sunk that they might have come from.

If the flooding was in the Tarim Basin, the people there might be the Magyar/Finns or it could even be that the Uralic language actually came from there, and spread with the Magyar as they left Aldland 4000 years ago, bringing the Uralic language closer to the Urals.

It was an idea that started in the 19th century that the Pamir Plateau was the location of Eden or the Paradise, and that the Tarim Basin was once an inland sea. Then, according to them, in 2345 BC the Tarim Basin emptied like a tilted bath tub and flushed the Pamir Plateau (and lots more).

[The Puzzler]

As has already been said, Aldland could mean nothing but the Old Land. It could be anywhere.

I just added what it is not, like Doggerland as you read about everywhere on the internet. It was Overwijn who started it in 1941. But Overwijn did suggest that the date of 2194 BC was a mythologial one, and he suggested the true date for the destruction of Aldland should havebeen 6250 BC, the date Doggerland got flushed down the drain. One of the problems with that is that Doggerland was close (and connected with) mainland Europe (and thus not equal to Aldland which was very far away from the Fryans in Europe), plus the fact that there are no mountains or volcanoes in Doggerland. The closest and most dangerous European volcanoes are the Laacher See volcano in Germany which last erupted in 12,900 BP or the ones in Iceland which did not erupt in either 2194 BC or 6250 BC.

And yes, the suggestion that Inka was a kind of Columbus who went west to find the Old Land in Asia had also been said. I know I even posted about Columbus actually thinking that Eden (the Old Land) was somewhere in Asia, but I'd have to look up that post again to be sure.

What kind of bugs me is that absolutely nothing is said about Aldland in the OLB. Only that it went down in 2194 BC, that it was the homeland of the Finda, and that the sailors called it "Atland".

After the destruction of Aldland the Finda came from the east to the Fryans through Twiskland (Germany), so wherever we are supposed to believe Aldland was once located, it could not have been in the Atlantic or the North Sea.

Yes, it always bugs me where it might be.

It does not have to be in the heart of Findas land, although it should be in Finda's land somewhere. Now, Finda's land - if you make Germany Twiskland, should start on the other side of Germany - and all the people east of it (Twiskland) should be Findas folk.

Twiskland, meaning in-between-land, (and nothing to do with Tuisco) might not be Germany. It makes the Fryans area very small though, and Finda's very big - which might be why Alewyn has Twiskland way more east than Germany, he has Twiskland starting at the Don River, above the Black Sea. (Page 48 Survivors of the Great Tsunami)

So Findas land could be everywhere East of Eastern Germany if Twiskland is Germany. But if Twiskland is not Germany, it means that the volcanoes you speak of do not have to have occurred in Germany.

[The Puzzler]

This does not make them of Mongolian/Tarim Basin origin and that's the point. Particularly since none of the actual haplogroups involved in the Finns origin originate in or around the Tarim Basin/Mongolia area.

cormac

Ok, is that true? None of the haplogroups in Finns (do you mean also Sami or just Finns) originate in or around the Tarim basin/Mongolia area?

If so, I'll change my idea then, out of the Tarim Basin to the Urals area....I think it works better with the whole concept anyway, but wanted to clear up about the Tarim basin area, one way or the other.

[The Puzzler]

Couldn't find the post where I posted the copied piece of text, but here's something:

http://www.unexplain...00#entry3913283

http://www.unexplain...75#entry4108266

All good, thanks alot, I am aware of much of this. But it's interesting that Columbus might have been a Fryan, because Genoa is old Ligurian country and I'm convinced they were an element of Fryans in Near Krekaland.

[The Puzzler]

It was an idea that started in the 19th century that the Pamir Plateau was the location of Eden or the Paradise, and that the Tarim Basin was once an inland sea. Then, according to them, in 2345 BC the Tarim Basin emptied like a tilted bath tub and flushed the Pamir Plateau (and lots more).

Yes and Lemuria was an idea started then too. That's fine and I appreciate the explanation but what needs to be found is evidence that the Tarim basin was once an inland sea. I haven't found anything - and as cormac has just told us, the Finns show no haplogroup association with this area.

I understand you see the OLB being written AFTER this idea so has included it as a possible place of Atland, but I'm not buying that so easy.

[Abramelin]

Yes, it always bugs me where it might be.

It does not have to be in the heart of Findas land, although it should be in Finda's land somewhere. Now, Finda's land - if you make Germany Twiskland, should start on the other side of Germany - and all the people east of it (Twiskland) should be Findas folk.

Twiskland, meaning in-between-land, (and nothing to do with Tuisco) might not be Germany. It makes the Fryans area very small though, and Finda's very big - which might be why Alewyn has Twiskland way more east than Germany, he has Twiskland starting at the Don River, above the Black Sea. (Page 48 Survivors of the Great Tsunami)

So Findas land could be everywhere East of Eastern Germany if Twiskland is Germany. But if Twiskland is not Germany, it means that the volcanoes you speak of do not have to have occurred in Germany.

Twiskland nothing to do with Tuisco? Well, as you know I disagree. Tuisco (also spelled 'Tuisto) was supposed to have been the Supreme God of the Germanic peoples. And the Bavarian Chronicles (remember the Teutonic Kinglist I reposted a week or so ago) has him as their first king, after he fled west after the Flood.

-

The volcanoes I spoke of should be in what was once Aldland, and in Doggerland there are/were none. Iceland has them, but it didn't go down, Germany has a large one, but it erupted for the last time in 12,900 BP. In short, I was talking in relation to Aldland, not Germany (only that the volcano closest to the North Sea was the Laacher See volcano).

-

The Finda came from east of Twiskland, that's all we now. Even if we are supposed to believe (according to 19th century ideas) that the Pamir Plateau was that 'Ald Land', then eventually the Finda (Hindi?) would have arrived east of 'Twiskland' or greater Germany.

.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Abramelin

[cormac mac airt]

Ok, is that true? None of the haplogroups in Finns (do you mean also Sami or just Finns) originate in or around the Tarim basin/Mongolia area?

If so, I'll change my idea then, out of the Tarim Basin to the Urals area....I think it works better with the whole concept anyway, but wanted to clear up about the Tarim basin area, one way or the other.

Yes that's true. NONE of the haplogroups for the Finns, to include Sami, originate in the Mongolia/Tarim Basin area. The writer of your link fabricated that claim.

The main haplogroups involved would have been mtDNA U5 and Y Chromosome N1c, I, R1a and R1b. All of which were in Western Asia/Europe millenia before any such claim to Finnish genetic origins.

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

Yes and Lemuria was an idea started then too. That's fine and I appreciate the explanation but what needs to be found is evidence that the Tarim basin was once an inland sea. I haven't found anything - and as cormac has just told us, the Finns show no haplogroup association with this area.

I understand you see the OLB being written AFTER this idea so has included it as a possible place of Atland, but I'm not buying that so easy.

Considering that the Tarim Basin is actually the remnants of a micro-continent that's slowly being subducted by both a northern as well as a southern plate, I'd like to see what evidence exists for it having been flooded within the last 5000 years to initially start such a legend as Noah's Flood.

cormac

[Abramelin]

Yes and Lemuria was an idea started then too. That's fine and I appreciate the explanation but what needs to be found is evidence that the Tarim basin was once an inland sea. I haven't found anything - and as cormac has just told us, the Finns show no haplogroup association with this area.

I understand you see the OLB being written AFTER this idea so has included it as a possible place of Atland, but I'm not buying that so easy.

I know the Tarim Basin was never a true inland sea, but that is what people in the 19th century thought, at some point.

Also that people spread out in all directions because of that flood in 2345 BC, the date they had calculated for Noah's Flood. And according to Frisian Almanacs from the early 19th century that date was 2194 BC.

You won't have to buy what I said about Aldland being once located in Asia, but I would like to hear of a better location. All I can say it is the OLB itself that hints at the Far East or Asia.

[The Puzzler]

Twiskland nothing to do with Tuisco? Well, as you know I disagree. Tuisco (also spelled 'Tuisto) was supposed to have been the Supreme God of the Germanic peoples. And the Bavarian Chronicles (remember the Teutonic Kinglist I reposted a week or so ago) has him as their first king, after he fled west after the Flood.

-

The volcanoes I spoke of should be in what was once Aldland, and in Doggerland there are/were none. Iceland has them, but it didn't go down, Germany has a large one, but it erupted for the last time in 12,900 BP. In short, I was talking in relation to Aldland, not Germany (only that the volcano closest to Aldland was the Laacher See volcano).

-

The Finda came from east of Twiskland, that's all we now. Even if we are supposed to believe (according to 19th century ideas) that the Pamir Plateau was that 'Ald Land', then eventually the Finda (Hindi?) would have arrived east of 'Twiskland' or greater Germany.

The thing with Tuisco is not to do with the word Twiskland though - the word has a meaning - in between land - hedged in by the broad Twiskland - an in between land.

It's a place and imo has nothing to do with Tuisco.

[The Puzzler]

Considering that the Tarim Basin is actually the remnants of a micro-continent that's slowly being subducted by both a northern as well as a southern plate, I'd like to see what evidence exists for it having been flooded within the last 5000 years to initially start such a legend as Noah's Flood.

cormac

Yes, me too.

[The Puzzler]

I know the Tarim Basin was never a true inland sea, but that is what people in the 19th century thought, at some point.

Also that people spread out in all directions because of that flood in 2345 BC, the date they had calculated for Noah's Flood. And according to Frisian Almanacs from the early 19th century that date was 2194 BC.

You won't have to buy what I said about Aldland being once located in Asia, but I would like to hear of a better location. All I can say it is the OLB itself that hints at the Far East or Asia.

I agree it's in Asia or at least in Finda's land.

I do find the mention of the Flood at 2194BC in the Frisian Almanacs a bit suspect though, I must say.

Edited October 28, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

The thing with Tuisco is not to do with the word Twiskland though - the word has a meaning - in between land - hedged in by the broad Twiskland - an in between land.

It's a place and imo has nothing to do with Tuisco.

The word is explained like that according to what the OLB suggests it should mean, and that is because there actually are Old Frisian and Old Nordic words like 'tuisk' that mean 'in between' or 'tusschen' in not that old Dutch. Germany is still being called Tuiskland in Norway and Sweden. Why would they call it that way?

The to us oldest available source in this respect, Tacitus, tells us Tuisco was the Supreme God of the Germans. That's one. The other ones are the Bavarian Chronicles which are from the 13th century that mention Tuisco/Tuisto as their first king after the Flood.

Like I have said a long time ago, compare it with the name of England. Here in Dutch, 'eng' also means 'narrow', so according to folk etmology I can say it means 'Narrow land'. And it fits the elongated shape of Britain from Cornwall to Scotland.

But that is not where the Eng- part of the name England came from.

[Abramelin]

I agree it's in Asia or at least in Finda's land.

I do find the mention of the Flood at 2194BC in the Frisian Almanacs a bit suspect though, I must say.

A bit suspect, lol.

But we have been over all that, and there was a site that had a calculation for Noah's Flood, based on Biblical chronology, and that also resulted in the date of 2194 BC. So however the 19th century Frisian Almanacs may have arrived at that date, it is possible to do it like they all did back then: by using Biblical chronology. Not one of these almanacs hints at there being an ancient document or a legend or whatever that gave them the 2194 BC date.

[The Puzzler]

The word is explained like that according to what the OLB suggests it should mean, and that is because there actually are Old Frisian and Old Nordic words like 'tuisk' that mean 'in between' or 'tusschen' in not that old Dutch. Germany is still being called Tuiskland in Norway and Sweden. Why would they call it that way?

The to us oldest available source in this respect, Tacitus, tells us Tuisco was the Supreme God of the Germans. That's one. The other ones are the Bavarian Chronicles which are from the 13th century that mention Tuisco/Tuisto as their first king after the Flood.

Like I have said a long time ago, compare it with the name of England. Here in Dutch, 'eng' also means 'narrow', so according to folk etmology I can say it means 'Narrow land'. And it fits the elongated shape of Britain from Cornwall to Scotland.

But that is not where the Eng- part of the name England came from.

But it still doesn't mean Twiskland is Germany, just because Tuisco's name might go back to the same word root.

Germany might be called Tuiskland because of Tuisco - like Frisia is named after Friso.

But Twiskland might not be Germany in the OLB imo.

I'm not sure now, I'll have another think.

Edited October 28, 2012 by The Puzzler

[cormac mac airt]

A bit suspect, lol.

But we have been over all that, and there was a site that had a calculation for Noah's Flood, based on Biblical chronology, and that also resulted in the date of 2194 BC. So however the 19th century Frisian Almanacs may have arrived at that date, it is possible to do it like they all did back then: by using Biblical chronology. Not one of these almanacs hints at there being an ancient document or a legend or whatever that gave them the 2194 BC date.

I'd put that in the same category as someone throwing enough crap at a wall just to see what sticks. The Biblical chronology can be place all over the place depending on what origin point one wishes to use. If we go with a strictlly Jewish chronology/calendar, as used and accepted today, then the 2194 BC date is off by 90 years and should read 2104 BC.

cormac

[Abramelin]

I'd put that in the same category as someone throwing enough crap at a wall just to see what sticks. The Biblical chronology can be place all over the place depending on what origin point one wishes to use. If we go with a strictlly Jewish chronology/calendar, as used and accepted today, then the 2194 BC date is off by 90 years and should read 2104 BC.

cormac

The reason I posted about that calculation resulting in 2194 BC is not because I think it's the correct or best calculation, but because that apparently the date does not have to come from some local legend or some ancient document that mentions that date.

If the date showed up in some local legend or ancient document (or simple hearsay) then I am quite sure a 'folk almanac' would have mentioned it. The modern ones I have peeked into always have a lot of weird stories and superstitions that make it a fun and/or interesting read.

[The Puzzler]

I'll concede that it seems Twiskland is probably Germany area, maybe larger in those days.

From there she went to the Lithauers (Face-hewers), so called because they always strike at their enemy’s face. The Lithauers are fugitives and banished people of our own race, who wander about in the Twisklanden. Their wives have been mostly stolen from the Tartars. The Tartars are a branch of Finda’s race, and are thus named by the Twisklanders because they never will be at peace, but provoke people to fight. She proceeded on beyond the Saxsenmarken, crossing through the other Twisklanders in order always to repeat the same thing. After two years had passed, she came along the Rhine home. Among the Twisklanders she gave herself out for a mother, and said that they might return as free and true people; but then they must go over the Rhine and drive the Gauls out of Frya’s south lands. If they did that, then her King Askar would go over the Scheldt and win back the land. Among the Twisklanders many bad customs of the Tartars and Magyars have crept in, but likewise many of our laws have remained. Therefore they still have Maagden, who teach the children and advise the old. In the beginning they were opposed to Reintja, but at last she was followed, obeyed, and praised by them where it was useful or necessary.

Among the Twisklanders there were two tribes who did not call themselves Twisklanders. One came from the far south-east, and called themselves Allemannen. They had given themselves this name when they had no women among them, and were wandering as exiles in the forests. Later on they stole women from the slave people like the Lithauers, but they kept their name. The other tribe, that wandered about in the neighbourhood, called themselves Franks, not because they were free, but the name of their first king was Frank, who, by the help of the degenerate maidens, had had himself made hereditary king over his people. The people nearest to him called themselves Thioth-his sons—that is, sons of the people. They had remained free, because they never would acknowledge any king, or prince, or master except those chosen by general consent in a general assembly. Askar had already learned from Reintja that the Twisklander princes were almost always at war with each other.

[The Puzzler]

The English word Germany derives from the Latin Germania, which came into use after Julius Caesar adopted it for the peoples east of the Rhine.^[12] The German term Deutschland (originally diutisciu land, "the German lands") is derived from deutsch, descended from Old High German diutisc "popular" (i.e. belonging to the diot or diota "people"), originally used to distinguish the language of the common people from Latin and its Romance descendants. This in turn descends from Proto-Germanic *þiudiskaz "popular" (see also the Latinised form Theodiscus), derived from *þeudō, descended from Proto-Indo-European *tewtéh₂- "people"

Maybe the word deutsch is really corresponding to IN BETWEEN - because deutsch sound like Twisk, when you place it into the Norway word you said -Tuiskland - sounds just like Deutschland with a T instead of D.

Thioth is said to be People because Thioth-his sons means sons of the people.

Thioth could even be Tuisco? Thioth as people - see above etymology - to diota (tiota) to deutsch - taat words in OLB meaning Father.

Edited October 28, 2012 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Yes that's true. NONE of the haplogroups for the Finns, to include Sami, originate in the Mongolia/Tarim Basin area. The writer of your link fabricated that claim.

The main haplogroups involved would have been mtDNA U5 and Y Chromosome N1c, I, R1a and R1b. All of which were in Western Asia/Europe millenia before any such claim to Finnish genetic origins.

cormac

OK, thanks.

[cormac mac airt]

The reason I posted about that calculation resulting in 2194 BC is not because I think it's the correct or best calculation, but because that apparently the date does not have to come from some local legend or some ancient document that mentions that date.

If the date showed up in some local legend or ancient document (or simple hearsay) then I am quite sure a 'folk almanac' would have mentioned it. The modern ones I have peeked into always have a lot of weird stories and superstitions that make it a fun and/or interesting read.

I know you didn't calculate it as 2193/2194 BC. My comment was aimed in the direction of those who did. One could calculate any number of unknown dates and claim they're meaningful. That doesn't make it true.

cormac

[The Puzzler]

I'd put that in the same category as someone throwing enough crap at a wall just to see what sticks. The Biblical chronology can be place all over the place depending on what origin point one wishes to use. If we go with a strictlly Jewish chronology/calendar, as used and accepted today, then the 2194 BC date is off by 90 years and should read 2104 BC.

cormac

which is only 11 years off the time frame the people actually entered Fryas lands.

I find that odd too, the submersion of Aldland takes place 101 years before the migration into Fryas land, what took them so long I wonder. No one who arrived in Findas land could have been in the actual flood which submerged Aldland.