Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[NO-ID-EA]

Thanks Abe for the chronicles of Eri ........ i have got a couple of days of work .........having read the preface and contents........this should keep me occupied .

[Abramelin]

Thanks Abe for the chronicles of Eri ........ i have got a couple of days of work .........having read the preface and contents........this should keep me occupied .

You're welcome Dr. No.

I once posted the book in this thread as a possible source of inspiration for those who created the OLB...

.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Bataven, kent uw spraak en heel haar overvloed!

~ Bilderdijk (1756-1831)

(Batavi, know your language and all its abundance!)

The tribal name, probably a derivation from batawjō ("good island", from Germanic bat- "good, excellent" and awjō "island, land near water")... (wiki/Batavi)

I am not so sure about the island part, but I would agree on BAT (Dutch: baat, bate).

All 13 OLB-fragments with this significant word will be posted this afternoon.

[Otharus]

Baat/ bate in Middelnederlands dictionary (oldest sources 13th century):

- benefit, advantage, profit, use, value, purpose (voordeel, nut)

- pleasure, satisfaction, gratification, approval (genoegen, plezier)

- help, assistance, aid (hulp, bijstand)

- cure, remedy (geneesmiddel, remedie)

- satisfaction, atonement, compensation (genoegdoening, compensatie)

- personal name

OLB, original text [page/line]:

[010/10]

NÀMMER LÍT HJU MÉT.AL UT JRTHA DÀLVA VMB ÀJN.BÁT

[Ottema & Sandbach p.17]

Nimmer liet zij metaal uit de aarde delven om eigen voordeel

She never allowed metal to be dug from the earth for her own benefit

[018/04]

FINDATH HJU THJU SÉKE TVIVELIK

SA MOT HJU TO BÁTA FON THÉR MÉNTE SPRÉKA

[O+S p.29]

vindt zij de zaak twijfelachtig,

zoo moet zij ten bate der gemeente spreken

[when in doubt,]

she must incline towards the side [speak in the benefit] of the community

[025/08]

ALSA MOT.ET TO MÉNA NITHA SKÉN.

MEN NÀMMER TO BÁTA FON ENKELDERA MÀNNISKA

[O+S p.39]

alsdan moet het ten gemeenen nutte geschieden,

maar nimmer ten bate van enkelde menschen

they must be for the common good,

and not for individual advantage

[027/31]

KVMTH THÉR FLÁTE TO HONK ÀND SIN THÉR BÁTA.

SA MOTON THA STJURAR THÉR.OF EN THRIMENE HÀVA

[O+S p.41]

Komt de vloot weder thuis, en zijn er baten,

dan moeten de zeelieden daarvan een derde deel hebben

If the fleet returns with profits,

the sailors may divide one-third among themselves

[029/09]

THJU MÉNTE MOT ET BÉTERA NÉI SINA STÀT.

WARA THÀT SIN FRIANDA THENE BÁTA WÉIGERJA

[O+S p.43]

de gemeente moet dat vergoeden naar zijn staat,

tenzij dat zijne vrienden dit voordeel weigeren

the community must bear the expense,

unless his friends decline to receive it [these benefits]

[040/28]

THÀT FOLK FINDA.S HETH ÁK SETMA ÀND DOMAR.

MEN THISSA NE SEND NAVT NÉI THA RJUCHT.

MEN ALLÉNA TO BATA THÉRA PRESTERA ÀND FORSTA

[O+S p.59]

Het volk van Finda heeft ook inzettingen en bepalingen,

maar deze zijn niet volgens het recht,

maar alleen ten bate van de priesters en vorsten

The people of Finda have also their rules and regulations,

but these are not made according to what is just—

only for the advantage of priests and princes

[076/07]

NÉI THÉRA FÁMNA HROP HETHER TO LESTA EN FODDIK FON HIR KRÉJEN.

THA HJU HET.IM NAVT NE BÁT

[O+S p.107]

Naar het zeggen der maagden heeft hij van haar ten laatste eene lamp gekregen;

doch zij heeft hem niet gebaat

According to the report of the maidens, he obtained a lamp from her;

but it did [has not benefitted] him no good

[089/23]

OWERS NAS THIT BOK NAVT SKRÉVEN NE WRDEN.

AFSKÉN IK ALLE HÁPE VRLÉREN HÀV THATET SKIL HELPA THA BÁTA

[O+S p.125]

anders was het boek niet geschreven geworden,

ofschoon ik alle hoop verloren heb, dat het helpen zal ten bate

otherwise this book would not have been written,

although I have lost all hope that it would be of any use

[135/05]

VNDER THESSE ARBÉD WRDON HJA GRÉV ÀND STRÀM ÉR HJA JÉRICH WÉRON

ÀND STURVON SVNDER NOCHTA AFSKÉN JRTHA THAM OVERFLODLIK FVL JÉFATH

TO BÁTA AL HJARA BERN

[O+S p.185]

Onder dezen arbeid werden zij grijs en stram eer zij oud waren

en stierven zonder genot, ofschoon de aarde dat overvloedig veel geeft

ter bate van al hare kinderen

Under this treatment they grew gray and old before their time,

and died without any enjoyment; although the earth produces abundantly

for the good of all her children

[149/18]

HO FRISO ALLE TO BIDOBBE WISTE

TO NOCHT FON BÉDE PARTJA AND TO BÁTE FON SIN ÀJN DOL

[O+S p.203]

hoe Friso allen wist te bedotten,

tot genoegen van beide partijen en ten bate van zijn eigen doel

how Friso understood deceiving everybody,

to the satisfaction of both parties, and to the accomplishment of his own ends

[189/23]

THA NE JÉF WR.ALDA THÉR NÉN MELOK IN

SA NE SKOLDON THA BERN THÉR NÉNE BÁTE BY FINDA

[O+S p.229]

Doch gaf Wralda daar geene melk in,

zoo zouden de kinderen daar geen baat bij vinden

but if Wr-alda did not give them milk

the children would find no advantage

[206/08]

THÉRVMBE HÀVON TO SÉMNE ÉNE LEST FORSONNEN THÉR VS ALLE BÁTA MOST

[O+S p.247]

Daarom hebben wij te zamen eene list verzonnen, die ons allen moest baten

Therefore, we hit upon a plan which might serve [benefit] us all

[206/21]

ÁSKAR HÉDE AL THISSA DWÁSHÉDA TO SIN BÁTA ANWENTH

ÀND THAT WILDON WI NV ÁK TO VSA BÁTA DVA

[O+S p.249]

Askar had al deze dwaasheden tot zijn voordeel aangewend,

en dat wilden wij nu ook tot ons voordeel doen

Askar had made use of all these follies for his own advantage,

and [now] we wished to do the same [to our advantage]

~

Conclusion: BAT as root for a tribe-name would make perfect sense.

[Otharus]

Bataven... tribal name, probably a derivation from batawjō ("good island", from Germanic bat- "good, excellent" and awjō "island, land near water")... (wiki/Batavi)

I am not so sure about the island part...

Latin:

avis - bird

avis noctis - owl

avis fluminea - swan

avis iunonia - peacock

avis alba - white raven

(in english: aviation)

So... BAT.AVI may have referred to symbolic bird (Dutch: baatvogel, geluksvogel); raven, swan, stork, ...?

[Otharus]

The French (Gauls) had a rooster as their mascot, the Dutch, Frisians and Flemmish (Chatti; cats?) had one or two lions, there are tribes with eagles, etcetera, so it would make sense if the name Batavi also referred to their mascot, rather then mean "people from a good island".

[Van Gorp]

Bataven, kent uw spraak en heel haar overvloed!

~ Bilderdijk (1756-1831)

(Batavi, know your language and all its abundance!)

The tribal name, probably a derivation from batawjō ("good island", from Germanic bat- "good, excellent" and awjō "island, land near water")... (wiki/Batavi)

I am not so sure about the island part, but I would agree on BAT (Dutch: baat, bate).

All 13 OLB-fragments with this significant word will be posted this afternoon.

Hi Otharus,

Always nice to see what you come with.

My understanding about Bataven: after their 'subjection' to the Romans, it is told they had more self-governance -> free from paying tax to the 'Romans'.

So, that's what we see in it's name: Baat-haven.

'Baat' as you said: favour, what is coming to you, what you earn due to others, tax (ten bate van, uitbaten, uitbuiten, beet-nemen, having by the balls) -> Beet-hoven as a gimmick :-)

The Bataven: hieven hun eigen belastingen (didn't have to pay the Romans tax)

Btw:

Baat(Bat), Gunst(Gon is het, ge-won), Gaer (garen spinnen, ver-gaeren -> gaer, waer, haer) is used in more words relating to gathering/paying the tributes (all is connected):

Konink, Gun-inck (the one all the gunst are carried to)

Gaer-haef (he who holds the richness/lood, master in war). To look over, in best case to distribute back to the people. Last one is in more modern times overlooked :-)

All positions connected with the 'gond van het volk', al dan niet uit vrije wil.

Paying tribute was in the beginning more voluntarely, lateron obliged/institutionalised.

Could haven then also be linked with storing the goods/tributes? Mostly where the ships brought the lood, but haven is also a safe place.

Als we de belasting komen ophalen -> heffen die handel, bij uitladen idem dito :-)

[Abramelin]

Bataven, kent uw spraak en heel haar overvloed!

~ Bilderdijk (1756-1831)

(Batavi, know your language and all its abundance!)

The tribal name, probably a derivation from batawjō ("good island", from Germanic bat- "good, excellent" and awjō "island, land near water")... (wiki/Batavi)

I am not so sure about the island part, but I would agree on BAT (Dutch: baat, bate).

All 13 OLB-fragments with this significant word will be posted this afternoon.

One of the reasons their name has an 'island' part, is because both Caesar and Tacitus said the Batavi lived on an island.

Then we have the detailed etymology of their name (and those of the Cananefates) by Lauran Toorians:

Betuwe en Hessen, Bataven en Chatten

http://www.dbnl.org/...501_01_0010.php

http://translate.goo...501_01_0010.php

As much as you doubt about the -avi part of the Batavi, I doubt about the Cananefates being 'leek masters'.

The '-fates' part is of course similar to the 'Bata-' part of the name of the Batavi (hence leek-'masters'), but the 'Canane' part could mean something very different:

kaan (stukje uitgebraden spek) >> ENG: piece of fried bacon

kaan (bootje) >> ENG: little boat

kaan (griet, soort vis) >> ENG: brill, a type of fish

kaan = keen (suikerriet) >> ENG: cane (both in English and Dutch a rather modern word)

http://www.etymologi....nl/zoeken/kaan

Possible Latin sources?:

canabae : nederzetting buiten legerkamp >> ENG: settlement outside army camp

canes/canis : hond >> ENG: dog

cani : grijs haar, ouderdom >> ENG: grey hair, old age

canina : hondevlees >> ENG: dog meat

canna : riet en klein vaartuig >> ENG: reed, small boat

http://www.ijpelaan....Taalkundig.html

http://en.wikipedia....alk:Cananefates

http://en.wikipedia..../Talk:Batavians

And then there is the possibility (assuming the Phoenicians did indeed arrive at the coasts of the Netherlands, as some have suggested by the name of the Dutch sea goddess Nehalennia, and Theo Vennemann with his theory of Phoenician influence on Germanic languages) that they were the "Masters of the Low Lands":

The etymology is uncertain. One explanation is that it has an original meaning of "lowlands", from a Semitic root knʿ "to be low, humble, depressed", in contrast with Aram, "highlands". An alternative suggestion derives the term from Hurrian Kinahhu, purportedly referring to the colour purple, so that Canaan and Phoenicia would be synonyms ("Land of Purple"), but it is just as common to assume that Kinahhu was simply the Hurrian rendition of the Semitic knʿn.

http://en.wikipedia....anaan#Etymology

Or:

cane (n.)

late 14c., from O.Fr. cane "reed, cane, spear" (13c., Mod.Fr. canne), from L. canna "reed, cane," from Gk. kanna, perhaps from Assyrian qanu "tube, reed" (cf. Hebrew qaneh, Arabic qanah "reed"), from Sumerian gin "reed." But Tucker finds this borrowing "needless" and proposes a native Indo-European formation from a root meaning "to bind, bend."

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

So, what could the name Cananefates, a tribe closely related to the Batavians (and both split off from the Chatti tribe), mean?

Boat masters?

Reed masters?

Masters of the Low Lands?

Knowing where this tribe lived and how they travelled, all three seem possible: the low lands, marshy areas, lots of reeds, boats. It is said they lived at the coast, on and behind the dunes, fishing in and traveling along creeks and rivers.

.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

So, that's what we see in it's name: Baat-haven.

Interesting Goropius, in stede of haven (harbor), I would just say have (as in to have; hebben).

Both words are even used in this fragment:

[027/31]

KVMTH THÉR FLÁTE TO HONK ÀND SIN THÉR BÁTA.

SA MOTON THA STJURAR THÉR.OF EN THRIMENE HÀVA

BÁTA.HÀVA => BÁTHÀVA => BÁTAVA => BATAVE(N) => baathebbers

=> they who have...

benefit, advantage, profit, use, value, purpose, pleasure, satisfaction, etc.

Perfect name!

[Abramelin]

The French (Gauls) had a rooster as their mascot, the Dutch, Frisians and Flemmish (Chatti; cats?) had one or two lions, there are tribes with eagles, etcetera, so it would make sense if the name Batavi also referred to their mascot, rather then mean "people from a good island".

I found something concerning totem animals among the Batavi and other Germanic tribes:

Germanic warriors went into battle following their standards. According to Tacitus they believed, that their deity “is

present among the fighting, that is why they fetch holy images and certain standards from their groves and carry

them into battle” (Tac. Germ. 7,2: „effigiesque et signa quaedam detracta lucis in proelium ferunt“). Clarity as to

what is meant by those “images” and “standards” is to be got from another passage where Tacitus, writing about

the Batavian revolt (69/70), says that the Germanics fetched the animal images from woods and groves that each

tribe used to carry into battle and joined the uprisers” (Tac. Hist. 4,22: inde depromptae silvis lucisque ferarum

imagines, ut cuique genti inire proelium mos est, …). Roman pictorial sources show boar and serpent standards.

Other possible images are wolf, stallion, aurochs and birds. As CHERUSCI means “stag people” an appropriate

totem standard is likely for this tribe. The images certainly were not realistic, but rather stylised representations of

the animal deities.

http://www.giesler-zinnfiguren.de/lesesaal/The%20Warriors%20of%20Arminius.pdf

"ORPHEUS - A GENERAL HISTORY OF RELIGIONS " - SOLOMON REINACH 1898

18. On the other hand, the Germans believed firmly in

witches. Tacitus says that they attributed a certain sanctity to

women, and referred to them for counsel. This does not imply,

as has been supposed, a chivalrous respect for the weaker

sex, but rather the widely spread and disastrous belief that

women have a natural gift for prophecy and magic. Velleda,

who incited the Batavians against the Romans in a.d. 70, is the

most famous of the German prophetesses. After they had become

Christians, the Gauls continued to listen to their witches ; but

the Inquisition taught them to burn them. German Dominicans

wrote the infamous book called The Hammer of Witches, and it

was more especially for Germany and against the German

witches that Innocent VIII. launched a bull, a solemn and

infallible affirmation of the power of witches, the signal for a

hideous carnage extending over two centuries, in the course of

which over a hundred thousand innocent women were burnt alive.

19. According to Tacitus, the Germans thought temples

and statues unworthy of their gods ; they were content to

adore them. But he tells us nothing of the German worship of

rivers, mountains and rocks, and he makes but a passing allusion

to their worship of trees and animals, a much more important

feature than their Pantheon. The Germans were profoundly

animistic. All nature to them was peopled with genii, elves

and trolls; those of the waters were nixies, those of the

mountains giants and dwarfs. The genius of the Riesengebirge

was the famous giant Rubezahl. The giants were the architects

of colossal buildings, fortresses or castles of the gods. The

dwarfs (Zwerge) were cunning smiths, and forged the weapons

of the gods ; their chief was Wieland, the smith. As the souls

which were said to wander in the air were assimilated to the

winds, and as the winds blow from the mountains, the latter

were supposed to be the abodes of spirits ; it is in a mountain,

the Kyffhäuser, that the Emperor Frederick I. sits in a magic

sleep, and there he will some day awake. This accounts for

the funeral sacrifices offered on summits, in spite of the

prohibitions of the Church. The worship of springs and rivers

was as fully developed among the Germans as in Gaul ; offerings

were thrown into them, and even human victims, it is said. To

obtain rain, water was poured out, sometimes over a naked girl.

The springs were held to be inhabited by spirits, male and

female, the nixies, who showed themselves in the form of bulls

and horses and lured men maliciously into the abyss. The

feminine demon of the sea was Ran, whose husband was Aegir ;

the sea which surrounds the world was in the form of an immense

dragon. In the sacred forests, every tree had its genius, which

took the form of an owl, a vulture or a wild cat. The guardian

spirit of a family inhabited a tree near the dwelling ; the gods

of the Edda had their own sacred tutelary tree, Yggdrasill. He

who cuts down a tree destroys a genius.

The sacred animals play an important part. Plutarch

speaks of a bull on which the Cimbri swore, Tacitus of augural

horses and wild boar standards ; other standards were sur-

mounted by serpents and dragons. Men and women could

transform themselves into serpents, wolves and bears to injure

their fellow-mortals. The wolf-bogey of the Germans is the

masculine pendant of the witch ; in Norway there is also a bear-

bogey. Witches, giants and trolls, disguised as crows or ravens,

ride on the storm-clouds. During sleep or at the moment of

death the soul comes out of the mouth in the form of a serpent

or a mouse ; as a ghost it could take the form of a quadruped

or a bird. The spirits of cultivated fields are materialised in the

form of wolves, bulls, dogs and boars ; any of these animals

caught among the last sheaves of harvest in which they had

sought refuge were considered sacred. But we have still more

decisive evidences than these of the old Germanic totemism.

20. At the beginning of the eighth century, Popes

Gregory III. and Zacharias enjoined Boniface, the apostle of the

Germans, to see that his converts abstained from the flesh of

horses, jays, crows, storks, beavers and hares. To eat horse is a

filthy and execrable crime, adds Gregory. It is evident that

the Popes were concerned, not for the hygiene of the Germans,

but for their religion. The meats they proscribe are those of

sacred animals, which were eaten ritually. Now we know that

the Icelanders, until their conversion in a.d. 997, ate horse "on

certain occasions" ; we know also that the Germans sacrificed

horses, that they placed the heads of these victims on the

trunks of trees ; that white horses, exempted from work, were

kept in the sacred woods as augural animals, and that a white

horse was supposed to carry the god in the military expeditions

of the Germans. Every nine years the Danes of Zeeland

sacrificed horses, dogs and cocks. These sacrifices were followed

by sacred feasts, at which the food was the flesh of the victims,

and the object, the sanctification of the faithful by communion.

The Christian Normans called the Swedes "eaters of horses" ;

the giants and witches of German legend were reputed

hippophagi. These facts attest the survival in Germany of

totemism but thinly disguised ; and they do not stand alone.

21. According to Bede (c. 700), the first chiefs of the Anglo-

Saxons were called Hengist and Horsa, and were descended

from Odin, to whom horses were sacrificed. Now Hengist

means a stallion and Horsa a horse, and Grimm has pointed

out that in Bede's lists, the other mythical kings have names

derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning horse (vicg). It

would seem therefore that these old genealogies, going back

to the god Odin, imply the existence of clans whose mythic

ancestor was a horse-god, like the Poseidon Hippios of the

Arcadians ; this is an obvious indication of totemism.

http://archive.org/stream/cu31924029055214#page/n155/mode/1up

http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924029055214/cu31924029055214_djvu.txt

[Otharus]

So, what could the name Cananefates, a tribe closely related to the Batavians (and both split off from the Chatti tribe), mean?

I still prefer the most simple explanation (and I know it is rejected by the main stream):

KANINAFATA - konijnevatters - rabbitcatchers

OLB has one fragment with KANINA (rabbits):

[065/20]

JON THÀT IS JÉVA. WAS SÉ.KÀNING. BERN TO.T.ALDER.GÁ.

TO.T.FLÍ.MAR UT FÁREN MITH 100 ÀND 27 SKÉPUM. TOHRÉTH FÁR EN GRÁTE BUTA RÉIS.

RIK TO LÉDEN MITH BÀRNSTÉN. TIN. KÁPER. ÍSER. LÉKEN. LINNENT. FILT.

FÁMNA.FILT FON OTTER. BÉVER ÀND KANINA.HÉR.

Many fragments with FATA (to catch; Dutch: vatten), and words derived from it:

SE VMBIFATTATH THJU SKÉDNISSE FON VS ÉLE FOLK

SA HJA.RA THRVCH VS FOLK FATA DÉDON

SEND THÉR SVM THRVCH THENE FYAND FAT

THÀT MÀN THENE DÉDER FATA

THAT I HIM THÉRAN VRFATE

ÉR ER FAT WRDE

(... etcetera)

Our coastal area still houses plenty of rabbits, they are good food and have useful skins.

This explanation makes most sense to me.

[Abramelin]

The main problem is: there were no rabbits here, back then.

They were introduced by the Romans, and long after Tacitus.

And I didn't even realize, but that might also pose a problem for the OLB.

Anyway, because there were no rabbits here, the explanation "rabbit catchers" for CanAnefates (and not CanInefates) is the reason why that explanation has been rejected.

It proves that by mere etymology you can go way of target. Paleobiology and archeology should also be taken into consideration.

+++

EDIT:

A common weed here is Black Nightshade. And that herb too was introduced by the Romans: they used its black berries as a mild narcotic.

.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Abramelin

[Van Gorp]

The main problem is: there were no rabbits here, back then.

They were introduced by the Romans, and long after Tacitus.

And I didn't even realize, but that might also pose a problem for the OLB.

Anyway, because there were no rabbits here, the explanation "rabbit catchers" for CanAnefates (and not CanInefates) is the reason why that explanation has been rejected.

It proves that by mere etymology you can go way of target. Paleobiology and archeology should also be taken into consideration.

+++

EDIT:

A common weed here is Black Nightshade. And that herb too was introduced by the Romans: they used its black berries as a mild narcotic.

.

But then you need to take everything into account:

Rabits have been here, even before Tacitus.

They went south because of the changing climate and are said to reappear in times when Romans were here.

A sample from Tacitus Annals: "..atque interim repertis vadis alam Canninefatem et quod peditum Germanorum inter nostros merebat circumgredi terga hostium iubet"

Konijn from Gaen-in -> Go in (the ground)

also same meaning as in Canninefaten: Gaen-In-Efheden

[Otharus]

The main problem is: there were no rabbits here, back then.

They were introduced by the Romans, and long after Tacitus.

How certain is that? From where did the Romans get them? What is the source for this?

It is also possible that their KANINA were not exactly the same species as our 'konijnen'.

[Otharus]

Canninefaten: Gaen-In-Efheden

What is/ are "efheden"?

Note: canis (latin) = dog...

Edited November 1, 2012 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

How certain is that? From where did the Romans get them? What is the source for this?

It is also possible that their KANINA were not exactly the same species as our 'konijnen'.

I knew this already in highschool.

I also studied herbal medicine, and one of the things we learned was that the Romans introduced these Black Nightshades.

And there was one running joke about the Can-I-nefates, your 'rabbit catchers'. The Romans really did introduce them. Well, if the CanAnefates ate them as a habit and Romans gave them their name because of that habit, where are the bones of these critters?

There are none to be found, not until centuries after Tacitus.

[Van Gorp]

What is/ are "efheden"?

Note: canis (latin) = dog...

My idea, possible:

ef-heden -> even-heden: for location could be pointing to planes/prairies -> horses

but in connection with the verb could also mean

'even', 'effen' zoals eventjes, effies, snel (even-> alles valt samen, glad) or 'dr-ijf' (draf), (gelijkmatig) dr-ijven, in gang zetten, een dr-eef

but your connection with fatten is also interesting (vatten, kan je dat vatten?, die is gevat):

ge-vat, ge-pakt, ge-fast, ready to go -> go-ick, fasten your seatbells!

now comes in mind (just side-ways): galop -> coming from ga-loop :-)

In short; I think could be the 'cavalerie' or horseman in general.

[Otharus]

I knew this already in highschool.

Arguments like "everyone knows that" and "I have always known that" are invalid.

... where are the bones of these critters?

There are none to be found, not until centuries after Tacitus.

The remains of rabbits that were eaten will have been thrown into the fire, but anyway, small animalls like critters and birds don't grow bones that last very long. When left in nature they are gone within a year or two.

Were bones of other small 2000 yrs BP animals found?

Edited November 2, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Can-I-nefates ... CanAnefates...

(Historische Werken Door Gerard Geldenhauer)

also see: http://www.sacred-te.../tac/a04070.htm

Waarom jij het met een A schrijft kan ik niet vatten.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Socrates on language in Cratylus by Plato:

Her. What do you say of pur (fire) and udor (water)?

Soc. I am at a loss how to explain pur; either the muse of Euthyphro has deserted me, or there is some very great difficulty in the word. Please, however, to note the contrivance which I adopt whenever I am in a difficulty of this sort.

Her. What is it?

Soc. I will tell you; but I should like to know first whether you can tell me what is the meaning of the pur?

Her. Indeed I cannot.

Soc. Shall I tell you what I suspect to be the true explanation of this and several other words?- My belief is that they are of foreign origin. For the Hellenes, especially those who were under the dominion of the barbarians, often borrowed from them.

Her. What is the inference?

Soc. Why, you know that any one who seeks to demonstrate the fitness of these names according to the Hellenic language, and not according to the language from which the words are derived, is rather likely to be at fault.

Her. Yes, certainly.

Soc. Well then, consider whether this pur is not foreign; for the word is not easily brought into relation with the Hellenic tongue, and the Phrygians may be observed to have the same word slightly changed, just as they have udor (water) and kunes (dogs), and many other words.

Her. That is true.

http://classics.mit....o/cratylus.html

~ ~ ~

HVND - OLB

hond - dutch

hund - german, danish, swedish, norwegian

hundur - icelandic

hound - english, westflemmish

hûn - frisian

chien - french

cane - italian

cão - portuguese

kun - greek (plato)

FJVR - OLB

feuer - german

vuur - dutch

fire - english

feu - french

fuego - spanish

fogo - portuguese

pur - greek (plato)

WÉTER - OLB

water - english, dutch

wasser - german

weeder - nordfrisian

wetter - frisian

vatn - icelandic, norwegian

vatten - swedish

vand - danish

watter - scottish

udor - greek (plato)

The way Greeks adopted 'barbarian' words is very similar to the way Indonesians adopted Dutch words.

Some make no sense when you read them, but when you hear them, they may still be recognised.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Socrates: I will tell you; but I should like to know first whether you can tell me what is the meaning of the pur?

I think I have the answer to Socrates' question...

The Timaeus makes conjectures on the composition of the four elements which some ancient Greeks thought constituted the physical universe: earth, water, air, and fire. Timaeus links each of these elements to a certain Platonic solid: the element of earth would be a cube, of air an octahedron, of water an icosahedron, and of fire a tetrahedron.

(wiki/Timaeus_dialogue)

OLB, "TEX FRYAS", page 12, line 11 (original manuscript):

FJUWER THINGA SEND TO JVWE NOT JÉVEN.

MITH NÁMA. LOFT. WÉTER. LÁND ÀND FJUR

English (Sandbach 1876):

Four things are given for your enjoyment

—air, water, land, and fire

Dutch (Ottema 1872):

Vier dingen zijn tot uw genot gegeven,

met name lucht, water, land en vuur

Note how, in the OLB language, fire seems to have been derived from four.

In geometry, a tetrahedron (plural: tetrahedra) is a polyhedron composed of four triangular faces, three of which meet at each vertex.

(wiki/Tetrahedron)

[Abramelin]

Arguments like "everyone knows that" and "I have always known that" are invalid.

The remains of rabbits that were eaten will have been thrown into the fire, but anyway, small animalls like critters and birds don't grow bones that last very long. When left in nature they are gone within a year or two.

Were bones of other small 2000 yrs BP animals found?

Yes. bones of rats, squirrels, beavers, sparrows and so on.

No rabbits.

If some tribe is known because of their habit of eating rabbits, you are bound to found proof of it.

And no one ever did.

I assumed it was general knowledge the Romans introduced rabbits in NW Europe.

[Abramelin]

(Historische Werken Door Gerard Geldenhauer)

also see: http://www.sacred-te.../tac/a04070.htm

Waarom jij het met een A schrijft kan ik niet vatten.

I'll tell you why I write CanAnefates:

That is because they found stones with that name inscribed on it, and with THAT spelling. Stones made by Romans, not some medieval manuscript of many centuries later.

You may not like it, but like I said before: with wordfk you will never be able to prove a thing.

You must use archeological finds too.

[Otharus]

I assumed it was general knowledge the Romans introduced rabbits in NW Europe.

I do not trust 'general knowledge'.

[Abramelin]

I do not trust 'general knowledge'.

And I know why: because it contradicts what you prefer to believe.

They never found rabbit bones of 2000 BP here.