Police, the iPhone and Your Right to Record

[jugoso]

I´m telling you man, I read and watch this kind of thing and the video of the police pepper-spraying patrons in a Montreal bar and fear that the line has been crossed a while ago and there is no going back.

http://mediacitizen....-to-record.html

[booNyzarC]

Yeah, that's pretty messed up.

[Babe Ruth]

Yes it was crossed awhile ago, and there won't be any going back.

[Grey14]

WHile yes I agree that from what was shown that an arrest really was not warranted, I do not believe that they arrested him from video taping them. Otherewise why didnt they arrest the guy filming the whole thing or go after him. I believe there is more to the story here than is being shown.

[msmike1]

There may be more to that story, but what about the hundreds of other videos showing police abusing their power and making illegal arrests? I don't dislike law enforcement. I know there is a need for them, and I respect the job they do, but the abuse of power and corruption in a lot of law enforcement agencies is getting ridiculous. It is widespread, from big cities to small towns and getting worse. Of course now they can just arrest you for no reason at all and detain you for any length of time they see fit, at least according to the federal government, so where does the abuse of power begin and end?

Mike

[Rafterman]

Are there any Canadians posting in this thread because, frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on Canadian law in instances like this. Are any of you?

[jugoso]

Are there any Canadians posting in this thread because, frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on Canadian law in instances like this. Are any of you?

Yes, I am Canadian Rafterman. And independent of any law, what I saw in the video was an abuse of power and unnecessary IMO. The man was clearly asking where he should be moving to and was also moving away from the police. He was not threatening them in any manner. If he was in a space where he shouldn´t have been, they should have arrested him immediately. By continuing to demand that he get behind the line, not tell him where the line was and then arrest him as he was moving toward it was just plain silly. I´m not sure what relevance any Canadian law gives police officers the right to be such arseholes. The police pretty much act with impunity in these situations throughout North America as well as in other parts of the world

[Corp]

WHile yes I agree that from what was shown that an arrest really was not warranted, I do not believe that they arrested him from video taping them. Otherewise why didnt they arrest the guy filming the whole thing or go after him. I believe there is more to the story here than is being shown.

You're using logic instead of 'OMG we have no freedom' panic.

There must be more to the story. Police like cameras being used in big events like this since if trouble does start up they can use the video to catch trouble makers. Never heard of a law saying it's illegal to take pictures of cops. Sure some cops are corrupt b******* and go unpunished too often but we're not dealing with the KGB here.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Corp

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

good for that guy ! ... who does he think he is? i mean cmon . if he just listened and turn his back around and walked away .. nothing would had happen . he provoked them .. guys like that should know their place, in society.

he was acting like my 4 year old daughter . why? where? what? but? punishment = 5 minutes on a chair... in a corner .. just because she didnt listen ! ..

only a madmen who thinks he is protected by the law would go agains the law itself !

[jugoso]

good for that guy ! ... who does he think he is? i mean cmon . if he just listened and turn his back around and walked away .. nothing would had happen . he provoked them .. guys like that should know their place, in society.

he was acting like my 4 year old daughter . why? where? what? but? punishment = 5 minutes on a chair... in a corner .. just because she didnt listen ! ..

only a madmen who thinks he is protected by the law would go agains the law itself !

Could you explain exactly how he "went against the law"?

[jugoso]

You're using logic instead of 'OMG we have no freedom' panic.

There must be more to the story. Police like cameras being used in big events like this since if trouble does start up they can use the video to catch trouble makers. Never heard of a law saying it's illegal to take pictures of cops. Sure some cops are corrupt b******* and go unpunished too often but we're not dealing with the KGB here.

So what you´re suggesting is that if we could see some bvideo before what we saw then the police were justified in acting the way they did?

Why not just answer the ****ing question and tell him where he was supposed to be? Have you not seen enough videos of police in riot gear making unnecessary arrests / using unnecessary force?? Why does there have to be more to the story??

Edited May 23, 2012 by jugoso

[Grey14]

So what you´re suggesting is that if we could see some bvideo before what we saw then the police were justified in acting the way they did?

Yes that is what is being suggested.

Why not just answer the ****ing question and tell him where he was supposed to be? Have you not seen enough videos of police in riot gear making unnecessary arrests / using unnecessary force?? Why does there have to be more to the story??

Without seeing the entire exchange we do not know if he had been told specifically where to go earlier and he was not being compliant. What you are doing is ASSuming that there is nothing else to the exchange than what you are seeing in that short video rather than questioning whether there might be more to what is going on. But of course that is what you want right? Otherwise you might not be able to use it to make your points.

[Corp]

So what you´re suggesting is that if we could see some bvideo before what we saw then the police were justified in acting the way they did?

Why not just answer the ****ing question and tell him where he was supposed to be? Have you not seen enough videos of police in riot gear making unnecessary arrests / using unnecessary force?? Why does there have to be more to the story??

Haven't you seen enough videos of "protesters" attacking police for no reason? And at times these kinds of videos are edited to make the police look like thugs.

As I've said some police officers are b******* and need to be slapped down harder. Maybe this is one of those cases, maybe not. But saying that "a line has been crossed and there's no going back" just destroys any point you might have had and reduces it to the weak "all police are evil" argument.

[jugoso]

Yes that is what is being suggested.

Without seeing the entire exchange we do not know if he had been told specifically where to go earlier and he was not being compliant. What you are doing is ASSuming that there is nothing else to the exchange than what you are seeing in that short video rather than questioning whether there might be more to what is going on. But of course that is what you want right? Otherwise you might not be able to use it to make your points.

No I cannot ASSume that he had been instructed what to do before the video tape started rolling any more than you can ASSume that he was. As mentioned previously, if he had not been compliant with previous instructions, he should have been arrested immediately. No need for the police to tell him what to do at that point. He was clearly asking the police where he should be and it also seems clear from the video that he didn´t want to be arrested. I saw absolutely NO reason for him to be arrested at the point he was. Perhaps before, but not at that point. Do you think it was necessary to arrest that individual or do you think he was moving in the "right" direction and the arrest could have been avoided?

I was caught up in the first Vancouver "riot" in the early 90´s and can tell you that I was doing my best to try to get myself away from the action and the police did not make it clear how I could do that. They essentially surrounded the crowd and let the tear gas fly. That was when the real mayhem started..

[Grey14]

No I cannot ASSume that he had been instructed what to do before the video tape started rolling any more than you can ASSume that he was.

Ahh but there is my point. I am not assuming anything. You are. Your seeing that 2 min clip and basing your point on it. I am not. I think there was more to see before the start of the video that would shed more light on to what the situation truely was. What that is I can't say as I wasnt there and there is no video of it. But at least I am not taking it at face value and running to the hills with corrupt police theories.

[jugoso]

Ahh but there is my point. I am not assuming anything. You are. Your seeing that 2 min clip and basing your point on it. I am not. I think there was more to see before the start of the video that would shed more light on to what the situation truely was. What that is I can't say as I wasnt there and there is no video of it. But at least I am not taking it at face value and running to the hills with corrupt police theories.

Sorry my friend, but that IS an assumption. And with respect to your last sentence, I do not believe I have done either.This has nothing to do woth corrupt police but the actions of these officers in this specific situation. I

If the guy had been previously told he shouldn´t be where he was and was still there, he should have been arrested immediately He was not. The police were telling him to move behind the line and were not trying to arrest him at that point. He seemed to be complying with what the police were asking yet was still arrested in the end. From the video, I don´t feel his arrest was necessary. If he had done something before the start of the video, proper procedure would be to arrest him immediately I would think and this video wouldn´t exist.

[jugoso]

Haven't you seen enough videos of "protesters" attacking police for no reason? And at times these kinds of videos are edited to make the police look like thugs.

As I've said some police officers are b******* and need to be slapped down harder. Maybe this is one of those cases, maybe not. But saying that "a line has been crossed and there's no going back" just destroys any point you might have had and reduces it to the weak "all police are evil" argument.

Yes, Ive seen the videos. I´ve also learned that in some cases the "instigators" have proven to be police officers themselves. Pretty dirty trick IMO. Again, I have no idea what happened before but the police officers DO look like thugs from what I saw in the video. The arrest was absolutely unnecessary at the point it happened. Can´t say about what happened before. Do you feel the arrest was necessary based on what you saw? If not then the arrest can only be based on what happened prior to the video and therefore should have happened at that point.

The line I´m referring to is the publics right to demonstrate and laws that are being passed that take that right away or diminish it to the point where the voices really aren´t being heard. For example

• Public demonstrations involving more than 50 people have to be flagged to authorities eight hours in advance, include itinerary, duration and time at which they are being held. The police may alter any of these elements and non-compliance would render the protest illegal.
  
• Offering encouragement for someone to protest at a school, either tacitly or otherwise, is subject to punishment. The Minister of Education has said that this would include things like 'tweeting', 'facebooking', and has she has implied that wearing the student protest insignia (a red flag-pin) could also be subject to punishment.
  
• No demonstration can be held within 50 meters of any school campus
  

Stellar gave a "stellar" response to the line I am referring to here

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=227474

[Stellar]

Haven't you seen enough videos of "protesters" attacking police for no reason? And at times these kinds of videos are edited to make the police look like thugs.

As I've said some police officers are b******* and need to be slapped down harder. Maybe this is one of those cases, maybe not. But saying that "a line has been crossed and there's no going back" just destroys any point you might have had and reduces it to the weak "all police are evil" argument.

The tricky situation is that we really have no way of knowing the "full" context if we were not there. It is very possible that the individual did something wrong previously and was told where the line was. The video therefore being an effort to tarnish the reputation of the police. Conversely, it is also possible that the man was completely innocent and the police overreacted (possibly due to them being filmed). The only thing we can really do is ensure that we don't falsely keep protesters in "bad light" and police in "good light", as I see the tendency to be, and keep an open mind in both cases. We dont have the surrounding context to fully say the police were abusive, nor do we have the full context to say that those protesters that became aggressive towards police did so without provocation. We need to keep an open mind and realize that there is the possibility for wrong actions to be taken by both the protesters and the police.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Stellar

[Grey14]

Sorry my friend, but that IS an assumption. And with respect to your last sentence, I do not believe I have done either.This has nothing to do woth corrupt police but the actions of these officers in this specific situation. I

If the guy had been previously told he shouldn´t be where he was and was still there, he should have been arrested immediately He was not. The police were telling him to move behind the line and were not trying to arrest him at that point. He seemed to be complying with what the police were asking yet was still arrested in the end. From the video, I don´t feel his arrest was necessary. If he had done something before the start of the video, proper procedure would be to arrest him immediately I would think and this video wouldn´t exist.

That is not an assumption thats fact. We know that the video does not show the entire encounter. So we know that there are things that happened before the video started. That is not assumption thats fact. I am not saying what happened before the video started it could show that the protest was completely in the right or it could show that he was doing something more that contributed to his arrest but there is no way to tell. so looking at the last part of the encounter and not talking what may have happened into account is just jumping to conclusions.

[booNyzarC]

That is not an assumption thats fact. We know that the video does not show the entire encounter. So we know that there are things that happened before the video started. That is not assumption thats fact. I am not saying what happened before the video started it could show that the protest was completely in the right or it could show that he was doing something more that contributed to his arrest but there is no way to tell. so looking at the last part of the encounter and not talking what may have happened into account is just jumping to conclusions.

Regardless of what happened before filming started we can clearly see that they were not moving to arrest him initially. They were merely telling him to get back behind some ambiguous line. As he was moving that direction they decided for some unknown reason to arrest him. When you consider the initially filmed behavior of the police it is obvious that the decision to arrest was made after filming started.

[PeterWitrigs]

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens ... ipad replacement parts

[aztek]

lol, that is some creative spam.

[Coffey]

Getting worse everyday.

[lightly]

... police are public servants. If they can film us.. we should be able to film them•

... * actually, i'm not so sure they should be able to film us... but i have no doubt that we should be able to film them performing their PUBLIC duties.

Edited August 11, 2012 by lightly

[Babe Ruth]

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens ... ipad replacement parts

We've already reached that point, some years ago.