Sphinx and GP dates from 10 500 BC?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Also when we touch Atlantis. Could it be that nymphs on dolphins were in fact:

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Edited to remove the long rant

I post this link so those not familiar with exactly how wierd and sinister some of these alternaviks are, can see what happens behind the scenes. In my opinion, the site I link to is very sinister and may explain why some posters behave as they do....

http://www.debunking...om/Contents.htm

Edited December 7, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[cormac mac airt]

Then what do you say about this below. Could it be that Auriteans were in fact Auliteans? Atlanteans were foreigners to Egyptians.

Auriteans is the name given by the ancient writer Manetho to the first kings to rule over Egypt during the “reign of the gods”. R. Cedric Leonard comments on this on his website and in his books(a)[130][131].

“Plato described Atlantis as being ruled by ten kings before its demise. Egyptian king-lists going back thousands of years before Plato (we will look at one example here) establish four important facts, which we should note:

Egyptian tradition begins with the “reign of the gods”

In all there were ten of these so-called “god-kings”

They were said to have reigned in a foreign country

From all appearances they were called “Atlanteans”

This last statement will be challenged by scholars, so let’s take a closer look at the Egyptian king-lists. One noticeable fact is that Manetho (250 B.C.) calls the first series of kings who ruled during the “reign of the gods,” Auriteans. This seems to be nothing more than a corruption of the word “Atlantean”. Let me explain.

Egyptian hieroglyphics only approximate real sounds: for instance, a hieroglyphic “k” must be used to represent the hard “g” sound. The hieroglyph that Manetho transcribed as r can equally be transcribed as an l. Thus the “Auriteans” of Manetho’s king-lists could just as well be “Auliteans”: phonetically almost identical to “Atlanteans”. This idea obtains credible support from the fact that the ancient Phoenician historian Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) calls these very same kings “Aleteans” [714]( . Isn’t it likely that Aleteans=Atlanteans?”

In spite of this valiant attempt to equate the Egyptian king lists with the kings of Atlantis, it must be pointed out that the ten Atlantean kings noted by Plato were brothers and so reigned concurrently over different part of the empire, whereas the king lists cited by Leonard relate to kings that reigned successively.

http://atlantipedia....ples/auriteans/

Actually it's give by Manetho as "Aeritae". Considering what we know about the predecessors of AE civilization as well as a nearby named Sea, it's more likely that Aeritae is a corruption of Eritrea or Erythraean, either of which would place any such origins of peoples in eastern Africa.

http://archive.org/stream/manethowithengli00maneuoft/manethowithengli00maneuoft_djvu.txt

cormac

[Alcibiades9]

Edited to remove the long rant

I post this link so those not familiar with exactly how wierd and sinister some of these alternaviks are, can see what happens behind the scenes. In my opinion, the site I link to is very sinister and may explain why some posters behave as they do....

http://www.debunking...om/Contents.htm

I've had a quick look and have to admit I can't tell whether the site is claiming to debunk, or to debunk the debunkers. The quotes by Whitley Strieber and others seem to contradict the claim made by the site itself.

What is interesting is your simplistic approach of lumping people who offer alternative takes on ancient Egypt with people who make outlandish claims about the paranormal. This is a rather weak attempt at conflation, and I think someone else has already used the term straw man on here to highlight just how transparent and self-defeating your approach is. In the uk we also call it an aunt Sally.

Let me turn it around on you...

Your "purist" approach to ancient Egypt - brooking no opposition and tolerating no other interpretations of the evidence except the orthodox, along with your habit of smearing your "enemies" - reminds me of the Nazis. I have therefore looked at neo nazi sites to see why you behave as you do... Ooooh...all rather sinister.

Do you see what I'm doing here? And isn't it ridiculous?

At least two of the "alternaviks" who post here clearly know a lot more about orthodox Egyptology than you, the self styled guardian of the truth.

If you want to post a link to a paranormal site, do it on a paranormal thread. No one on here is talking about the paranormal, so stop throwing mud around in the hope that some of it sticks. Utterly desperate.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

I've had a quick look and have to admit I can't tell whether the site is claiming to debunk, or to debunk the debunkers. The quotes by Whitley Strieber and others seem to contradict the claim made by the site itself.

What is interesting is your simplistic approach of lumping people who offer alternative takes on ancient Egypt with people who make outlandish claims about the paranormal. This is a rather weak attempt at conflation, and I think someone else has already used the term straw man on here to highlight just how transparent and self-defeating your approach is. In the uk we also call it an aunt Sally.

Let me turn it around on you...

Your "purist" approach to ancient Egypt - brooking no opposition and tolerating no other interpretations of the evidence except the orthodox, along with your habit of smearing your "enemies" - reminds me of the Nazis. I have therefore looked at neo nazi sites to see why you behave as you do... Ooooh...all rather sinister.

Do you see what I'm doing here? And isn't it ridiculous?

At least two of the "alternaviks" who post here clearly know a lot more about orthodox Egyptology than you, the self styled guardian of the truth.

If you want to post a link to a paranormal site, do it on a paranormal thread. No one on here is talking about the paranormal, so stop throwing mud around in the hope that some of it sticks. Utterly desperate.

Slow learner aren't you, and you lag behind me...

Garbage post and you know it. Nowhere do I ever claim any truth. The sinister aspect of the site is the quasi marxist cum relgious fundamentalist language used. Language that turns reality inside out. It is you who comes here and makes to be some arbiter of truth etc. Your comments about me are wrong and garbage. You are yet another arrogant pompous bore with no sense of humour. Who do you think you are to lecture anybody in the pompous way you do. Try this nonsence on somebody else mister, to me you are an empty mask and a sock puppet. Besides, you cannot even understand the purpose of my post. It was not about paranormal, as your last garbage paragraph says. You twist words and flash mirrors and blow smoke. You have added nothing of value to this thread, all you do is launch attacks, for what purpose? to enforce "correct thinking" to make you feel good. You come across as pathetic bully. On this forum I only pretend to be a fool, you are a fool, and are not even funny.....

edited several times for various reasons, once to remove words that I know google will not translate

Edited December 7, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[Alcibiades9]

Slow learner aren't you, and you lag behind me...

Garbage post and you know it. Nowhere do I ever claim any truth. The sinister aspect of the site is the quasi marxist cum relgious fundamentalist language used. Language that turns reality inside out. It is you who comes here and makes to be some arbiter of truth etc. Your comments about me are wrong and garbage. You are yet another arrogant pompous bore with no sense of humour. Who do you think you are to lecture anybody in the pompous way you do. Try this nonsence on somebody else mister, to me you are an empty mask and a sock puppet. Besides, you cannot even understand the purpose of my post. It was not about paranormal, as your last garbage paragraph says. You twist words and flash mirrors and blow smoke. You have added nothing of value to this thread, all you do is launch attacks, for what purpose? to enforce "correct thinking" to make you feel good. You come across as pathetic bully. On this forum I only pretend to be a fool, you are a fool, and are not even funny.....

edited several times for various reasons, once to remove words that I know google will not translate

Apology accepted.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

че

[Big Bad Voodoo]

When I was first time in Egypt I wonder how those people managed to live on 50 C. Then one Egyptian told me that he and his family are awake in 3 in the morning and work till 11. I remembered then stories about crazy ruler in Egypt who proclaims law that people must sleep at day and work at night. I tried to think where pyramids would fitt in that story. They could be Public light?No. Lighthouses? For aliens for Vimanas? No. For travelers. Possible?

Actually it's give by Manetho as "Aeritae". Considering what we know about the predecessors of AE civilization as well as a nearby named Sea, it's more likely that Aeritae is a corruption of Eritrea or Erythraean, either of which would place any such origins of peoples in eastern Africa.

http://archive.org/s...neuoft_djvu.txt

cormac

Do you know anything about Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) and how he calls these 10 kings Aleteans ?

Edited December 7, 2012 by the L

[cladking]

Actually only people who have studied and learned to read hieroglyphics can give an accurate translation of what they say. Yes he has his opinion but it is not based on his ability to read hieroglyphics. Further he indicates that those who translate hieroglyphics are giving nothing but opinions which we know is incorrect.

The first statement is redundant and has no meaning. It also implies a falsehood because

translators say they don't understand the meaning of the PT and can only "circumscribe" its

meaning. It follows that we don't know that the translation is accurate. We only know the mean-

ing of some of the words and phrases rather than having some absolute standard to which we

can compare the intended meaning to our translated meaning. This is where the real problem

begins and makes your second statement irrelevant in my opinion. We don't understand the

translations. We believe they are incantation and magic but there's no proof because there's

no standard and, in this case, there's almost nothing with which to compare it other than relig-

ious texts from thousands of years later. We can clearly see the PT did indeed evolve into the

later works but this hardly means that the PT can be understood in terms of those later works.

This allows anyone free interpretation of the translations. Obviously, no one can legitimately re-

translate this material unless he has specific knowledge but I don't see anyone doing this. Say-

ing that there are other interpretations of the writing seems obvious beyond the need to even

state it since no one can seem to agree on the meaning of anything at all in the PT. If Egyptol-

ologists don't agree on anything then obviously they might be wrong about everything.

[cormac mac airt]

When I was first time in Egypt I wonder how those people managed to live on 50 C. Then one Egyptian told me that he and his family are awake in 3 in the morning and work till 11. I remembered then stories about crazy ruler in Egypt who proclaims law that people must sleep at day and work at night. I tried to think where pyramids would fitt in that story. They could be Public light?No. Lighthouses? For aliens for Vimanas? No. For travelers. Possible?

Do you know anything about Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) and how he calls these 10 kings Aleteans ?

Outside of Eusebius' writings there's no actual evidence that Sanchuniathon was a real person, nor even that said person lived in the 12th century BC. It's more hear-say than fact.

cormac

[Quaentum]

The first statement is redundant and has no meaning. It also implies a falsehood because

translators say they don't understand the meaning of the PT and can only "circumscribe" its

meaning. It follows that we don't know that the translation is accurate. We only know the mean-

ing of some of the words and phrases rather than having some absolute standard to which we

can compare the intended meaning to our translated meaning. This is where the real problem

begins and makes your second statement irrelevant in my opinion. We don't understand the

translations. We believe they are incantation and magic but there's no proof because there's

no standard and, in this case, there's almost nothing with which to compare it other than relig-

ious texts from thousands of years later. We can clearly see the PT did indeed evolve into the

later works but this hardly means that the PT can be understood in terms of those later works.

This allows anyone free interpretation of the translations. Obviously, no one can legitimately re-

translate this material unless he has specific knowledge but I don't see anyone doing this. Say-

ing that there are other interpretations of the writing seems obvious beyond the need to even

state it since no one can seem to agree on the meaning of anything at all in the PT. If Egyptol-

ologists don't agree on anything then obviously they might be wrong about everything.

Since the PT is not the sum total of all hieroglyphics, to try to make it so, invalidating my statement is itself invalid. My statement is true for any written language. If you have studied and can read French but I can not, anything that I might say is opinion but what you say would be based on your ability to read it.

There is a big difference between varying interpretations of the translations as you are indicating and saying that the translations themselves are nothing but opinion as LRW is saying.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Outside of Eusebius' writings there's no actual evidence that Sanchuniathon was a real person, nor even that said person lived in the 12th century BC. It's more hear-say than fact.

cormac

So many ancient work we ve lost that one is more then enough... if Eusebius didnt lied about another things why would about one Phoenecian... Anyway did he realy say Aleteans?

[cladking]

Since the PT is not the sum total of all hieroglyphics, to try to make it so, invalidating my statement is itself invalid. My statement is true for any written language. If you have studied and can read French but I can not, anything that I might say is opinion but what you say would be based on your ability to read it.

The PT is very nearly the sum total of all writing before the 6th dynasty. Almost

everything else is lists and lists can't provide grammar.

If I translate something into French then there are absolute standards on which to

base the quality of the translation and the skill that was used to capture the orig-

inal meaning. The translation can be "graded" on its accuracy. This simply doesn't

apply to translations of the PT. But even if it could be judged for its accuracy, the

nature of the writing is such that it is open to interpretation. I don't see that anyone's

interpretation can be set in stone so long as the meaning is unknown.

There is a big difference between varying interpretations of the translations as you are indicating and saying that the translations themselves are nothing but opinion as LRW is saying.

If it's true that the meaning is unknown then to a very real extent the translations are

actually only opinion. Look at the wide variation in the translations. They can't all be

right so maybe they are all wrong. I somehow missed LRW's rendering of meaning but

so long as he didn't attempt retranslation then it might certainly be valid.

Perhaps I'm speaking generally when I should be speaking specifically. I'll review the

thread.

After reviewing the thread it appears you might well be right since LRW never mentioned what specific knowledge led him to his conclusions. Of course for all I know his real name is James Allen and he has more right than the rest of us to retranslate or form an opinion. He was speaking generally though and I agree with many of his points. If his only point were that Egyptologists don't know the meaning of the PT so that their interpretations are more in the realm of guesses than fact, I'd agree. I can't agree to wholesale changes of scholarly work without delineating the specific reasons for those changes.

Edited December 7, 2012 by cladking

[cormac mac airt]

So many ancient work we ve lost that one is more then enough... if Eusebius didnt lied about another things why would about one Phoenecian... Anyway did he realy say Aleteans?

From what I've seen, the closest to Aleteans is Aletae which is equated with Titans. Nowhere are they suggested as being peoples of Atlantis.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw9DD8Hgvs_HNDY0OTExM2UtZWU3Yy00MTg3LTg2NjYtNzZiNWMyMzhhNTIx/edit?hl=en_GB&pli=1

cormac

[Alcibiades9]

When I was first time in Egypt I wonder how those people managed to live on 50 C. Then one Egyptian told me that he and his family are awake in 3 in the morning and work till 11. I remembered then stories about crazy ruler in Egypt who proclaims law that people must sleep at day and work at night. I tried to think where pyramids would fitt in that story. They could be Public light?No. Lighthouses? For aliens for Vimanas? No. For travelers. Possible?

In Ancient Rome all commercial traffic was restricted to night time. From a purely practical point of view, those of us in chillier northern climes perhaps overlook the fact that in warmer climes it is perhaps better to work and play at night and sleep during the hottest hours of the day. I am reminded of this in Spain when I am - idiot!- the only person wandering round the scorched streets during siesta wondering where the hell everyone else is. I presume the pyramids would have been built in the cool of the night.

Do you know anything about Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) and how he calls these 10 kings Aleteans ?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

What I found interesting about Egypt beside their architecture and symbolism is their science. Sadly I know little about it. I research only about one sphere-healthcare. And that its full of mysteries to me. I hope one day we would open a thread for ancient achivements in science. And Im not talking about physics, math and chemistry.

Seems to me that they were fully developed in some fields. I wonder did they had palaentology, archaeology, geology, biology, botany, aquatic botany, zoology,ecology, anthropology maybe, maybe statistics, geography, economy, history, psychology, criminology perhaps, study of languages, seismology, nutrition, optics, meteorology, oceanography, geodesy or acoustics.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Homer wrote that Egyptians invented medicine. Clement of Alexandria who lived around 200 spoke about Egyptian medical books written by Thoth.. Sadly we dont have any of 42 Thoths books. Manetho claimed that Thoth wrote 36.525 books. Now thats interesting and probably more accurate then Clement number since he consider that Thoth is one person. I believe that Thoth was profession. Scribes. Wise writters. Thats why Thoth is God of scribe and wisdom and his female companion Seshat. I would return to Seshat later. I also read once how priests of Sekhmet were amazing healers. Also Herodotus wrote how Egyptian doctors were specalized.

“The practice of medicine they split up into separate parts, each doctor being responsible for the treatment of only one disease… some specializing in diseases of the eyes, others of the head, others of the teeth, others of the stomach, and so on…”.

Egyptian doctors were trained in Pr Ankh or House of life. They used propolis as antiseptic and we used till 20 century. Milk and honey is used for respiratory. Crocodile dung was used for preventing conception. Now I wonder how that end up due all disease that you can get from it.

Personally I believe that Seshat, Godess of wisdom and scrolls, enjoyed in hemp. I belive that sign above her head is hemp leaf.Many buildings in todays Cairo was built from hemp. It was harder material then concrete. At El Amarna in Akhenaten tomb we found Hemp rope. Diodorus wrote that Egyptian woman used it against sorrow. Canabis was use among Celts,Norse, Scythians,Chinese,Egyptians. Today hemp was banned because it would destroy cotton wood and plastic industry. Seshat nick name was Mistress of the House of Books. Pharaoh Tuthmosis III called her Sefkhet-Abwy (She of the seven points).

Egyptologist Georg Ebers in 1873 in Luxor buy medical scroll from 1500 BC which is now known as Papyrus Ebers. In scroll we can found over 700 magic formulas. Some researchers conclude based on Papyrus Ebers that Egyptians saw mental illness same as physical because it spoke about depression. Ebers papyrus spoke about gynecology and pregnancy, digestive problems, eye diseases, dentistry, skin issuses, surgeries, tumors, burns and how to set bones after they breaks. In same papyrus we found benefactory use of hemp. There is many others papyrus such as Edwin Smith from 1500 BC, Ramesseum III from 1700 BC, Berlin from 1650 BC. They all mentioned use of hemp.

We also know that Egyptians used hemp ropes so obviously hemp was very spread in AE.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Temple of Kom Ombo instruments

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

What I found interesting about Egypt beside their architecture and symbolism is their science. Sadly I know little about it. I research only about one sphere-healthcare. And that its full of mysteries to me. I hope one day we would open a thread for ancient achivements in science. And Im not talking about physics, math and chemistry.

Seems to me that they were fully developed in some fields. I wonder did they had palaentology, archaeology, geology, biology, botany, aquatic botany, zoology,ecology, anthropology maybe, maybe statistics, geography, economy, history, psychology, criminology perhaps, study of languages, seismology, nutrition, optics, meteorology, oceanography, geodesy or acoustics.

Perhaps that so many of the examples you quote end in "ology", to an extent answers the question. Though they never had individual sciences in the way we group then now. Their approach was holistic and religious. Look at Pliny, he covered many of those subjects, yet would not have used any of those names to describe himself. I think applying names was for artisan skills, sculpting for instance, what we now call the sciences would not have had a specific name. The AE conducted what we now call archeological digs looking for the tomb of Osiris, though none of them would have seen themselves as an "archeologist" whose purpose was to uncover and describe the past through it's remains. It is an interesting subject though, and in light of the Antikythera mechanism alone, needs much research and thought. And of course precisely how AE built Great Pyramid.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[zoser]

There's a thread or two on this. Short answer, no.

No it's true. The last thread was wrong. It was proven by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval. They did a computer simulation and proved it. Many other modern scientists concur because the GP could only have been constructed with advanced technology.

[samspade]

No it's true. The last thread was wrong. It was proven by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval. They did a computer simulation and proved it. Many other modern scientists concur because the GP could only have been constructed with advanced technology.

lets get the facts straight - hancock and bauval were wrong about the belt stars and the great pyramid.

the belt stars of orion are in no way a representation of the great pyramid.

another mystery dealing with the great pyramid may be involving me and the rejected stone of the builders that jesus talked about.

im the first to rediscover the secret of the great pyramid and yet i find it quite possible i may be part of a prophency regarding the great pyramid.

regards

[cladking]

lets get the facts straight - hancock and bauval were wrong about the belt stars and the great pyramid.

the belt stars of orion are in no way a representation of the great pyramid.

another mystery dealing with the great pyramid may be involving me and the rejected stone of the builders that jesus talked about.

im the first to rediscover the secret of the great pyramid and yet i find it quite possible i may be part of a prophency regarding the great pyramid.

I can't wait to see your work on this.

There are too many mysteries here for there to be only a single secret, I believe. I know

we don't all agree on the number of mysteries or their nature, but there are countless un-

answered questions suggesting a significant number of causes. It's very easy to see our

own life in song lyrics or ancient writing and some of what's going on now could have been

predicted long ago. Unless you find details it might be a good idea to hold such things at

arms lenght.

As always, best of luck.

[cladking]

What I found interesting about Egypt beside their architecture and symbolism is their science. Sadly I know little about it. I research only about one sphere-healthcare. And that its full of mysteries to me. I hope one day we would open a thread for ancient achivements in science. And Im not talking about physics, math and chemistry.

Seems to me that they were fully developed in some fields. I wonder did they had palaentology, archaeology, geology, biology, botany, aquatic botany, zoology,ecology, anthropology maybe, maybe statistics, geography, economy, history, psychology, criminology perhaps, study of languages, seismology, nutrition, optics, meteorology, oceanography, geodesy or acoustics.

I've only realized recently that I've got enough evidence and deduction to start reverse

engineering how their science was invented. They had pretty much all the things we have

now but some of their fields would be very much different. For instance in optics everything

they knew could be written on a single page and most of it was learned through the refrac-

tion of light through water. "Ecology" is largely the rediscovery by modern man that all life

on earth is interrelated. This was probably the very basis of most ancient science or to say

it another way it was almost more metaphysics rather than science.

It's likely to be a while before I feel confident enough to write a post on the subject.

Edited to add that it appears "knowledge and writing" is a poor translation for Thot. A better

one would be "human progress". The books of Thot were something analogous to an encyclo-

pedia. If we had a scrap of one of these it would look a lot like all their writing. The "Book of

Thot" might have been a compilation of the knowledge a scientist or craftsman would need

everyday and would be analogous to "The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics". If we had a

scrap of this it would likely be lists and tables.

Edited December 8, 2012 by cladking

[samspade]

I can't wait to see your work on this.

There are too many mysteries here for there to be only a single secret, I believe. I know

we don't all agree on the number of mysteries or their nature, but there are countless un-

answered questions suggesting a significant number of causes. It's very easy to see our

own life in song lyrics or ancient writing and some of what's going on now could have been

predicted long ago. Unless you find details it might be a good idea to hold such things at

arms lenght.

As always, best of luck.

ty clad for luck,

but none is needed,

in fact i dont think its my chance i got dragged into this mystery, perhaps fate, or subconscious mind.

and yes, there are a few things at play in the great pyramid, as well as at the plateau.

needless to say, they will be force later to reach my conclusions but i am well ahead of them,

i been ask to remain silent, not that i am in any group.

but i tend to believe perhaps later i be the one who blows it open/

but if dont its because it will be because i feel its the right thing to do, im a professional but that does not mean i feel a spirtual connection somehow. things are maded me believe there is more to this life than making a fortune one this mystery.

regards

Edited December 8, 2012 by samspade

[Alcibiades9]

No it's true. The last thread was wrong. It was proven by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval. They did a computer simulation and proved it. Many other modern scientists concur because the GP could only have been constructed with advanced technology.

But what is "advanced technology"?

I've no doubt that whoever built the GP did so with a great deal of ingenuity and innovation. It cannot be done simply with manpower alone - the Hollywood version of gangs pulling on ropes makes no sense at higher levels where there wasn't the space. However they did it, it still eludes us, but I bet it was as simple as it was clever. No complex machines, no aliens, no time travellers, no paranormal interventions, no magic, no levitation.

Just very, very clever human problem solving and organisation and a lot of hard work, block by block.. Does that count as advanced technology? I think it does.