Hudson Valley 1983

[zoser]

Could this the same craft that flew over Phoenix in 1997? Listening to the testimonies on this short clip there is certainly some reason to speculate as much. Witnesses had time to get a good look at the object at close range. Described as chevron shape, and grey metallic and massive in size, floating slowly and totally silent. Some similarity; see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=3H1TeVLmnf0

[zoser]

Just found this; what appears to be actual footage of the sighting. Shame it occurred before the digital age!

[zoser]

It seems that a year later, in 1984 there was a major sighting (possibly the same object?) at Indian Point nuclear reactor. The Hudson Valley sightings were part of a flap of sightings that occurred more or less throughout the decade. The controllers at the base were very close to giving the order to fire at it. The incident is full of controversy; reporters being threatened, power being mysteriously drained from the reactor. Definitely worth a read.

http://www.ufoeviden...cle.asp?ID=1081

If you fancy the abridged version:

http://www.nicap.org/ncp/ncp-peekskill.htm

Edited June 4, 2012 by zoser

[Hazzard]

Could this the same craft that flew over Phoenix in 1997?

I seriously doubt that but who knows. The first group of lights over Phoenix back in -97 was aircraft flying in formation, and the second event was military flares.

[zoser]

I seriously doubt that but who knows. The first group of lights over Phoenix back in -97 was aircraft flying in formation, and the second event was military flares.

Oh

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

I seriously doubt that but who knows. The first group of lights over Phoenix back in -97 was aircraft flying in formation, and the second event was military flares.

lol if they said it was a big controlled balloon you still would believe it !

so many witnesses and some footage. if this isnt proof . then i dont understands how your mind is working !

if you believe the news, over the thousends of witnesses.. ...

[karl 12]

Zoser, great thread mate and some of that close range eyewitness testimony is pretty darn compelling - there's a good news article here about the sightings and Nick Pope from the British Ministry of Defence makes an interesting comment below about the objects appearance and flight characteristics.

"We were asking the Americans, 'Are you operating a prototype aircraft in our airspace?' That, of course, was nonsense. You simply would not do that from a diplomatic and political point of view. It would undermine the entire structure of NATO if you were putting things through someone else's airspace, particularly a close ally, without seeking the proper diplomatic clearance. But we had to ask. And the Americans, having had similar reports, I guess, since the Hudson Valley wave [New York state, mid-1980s], had been quietly asking us if we had some large, triangular shaped object that could go from 0 to Mach 5 in a second. Our response was that we wished we did. This was the bizarre situation: that we were chasing the Americans, and the Americans were chasing us."

Nick Pope - Head of the "UFO desk" at Air Secretariat 2-A, British Ministry of Defence.

Cheers!

[Barnabas C 605]

I used to work at the power plant directly across the river on the rockland side from Indian point. I usually worked the graveyard shift when it was quite at night and there was many times i thought I saw strange things over the sky's there at night. But as far as being to actually think I saw a UFO without a dobt and couldn't be something else I would not say that. Strange things none the less

[psyche101]

lol if they said it was a big controlled balloon you still would believe it !

Yeah, what nonsense ..................

so many witnesses and some footage. if this isnt proof . then i dont understands how your mind is working !

What about witnesses who said the lights moved independently, or do you just believe the witnesses on the UFO sites like our OP?

if you believe the news, over the thousends of witnesses.. ...

What about math and fact? Did you read the debate in the BE thread? It can be mathematically proven the second event was flares, and the first event was observed directly by a man with a telescope, and his sighting was confirmed by another. No human eye has the resolution of a Dobsonian Telescope, so who would be right? The people who could actually look at the lights close up or the people in the distance guessing?

I think that your nick is becoming very apparent.

Edited June 5, 2012 by psyche101

[DBunker]

lol if they said it was a big controlled balloon you still would believe it !

so many witnesses and some footage. if this isnt proof . then i dont understands how your mind is working !

if you believe the news, over the thousends of witnesses.. ...

Lights in the sky=ET starship..... I dont understand how YOUR mind is working.

[psyche101]

Oh

Google

Stormville Flyers Hudson Valley.

Ohh heck, gonna have to do that myself arenlt I? I know if a site does not start with UFO you wont click the link.

LINK

[psyche101]

Zoser, great thread mate and some of that close range eyewitness testimony is pretty darn compelling - there's a good news article here about the sightings and Nick Pope from the British Ministry of Defence makes an interesting comment below about the objects appearance and flight characteristics.

Cheers!

Hi Karl

I am not seeing the consistency in that article, the drawing shows 10 lights, the witnesses says 6 or 8, all of which are supposed to be lighting up something three football fields long? The lights would have to be about the size of a double decker bus each at least. One says frightening, one says not at all frightening and one says they simply disappeared from time to time, to which the paper says others confirm, but has none of these recollections, just conflicting examples listed.

To be honest, it does not seem all that consistent at all.

[zoser]

Hi Karl

I am not seeing the consistency in that article, the drawing shows 10 lights, the witnesses says 6 or 8, all of which are supposed to be lighting up something three football fields long? The lights would have to be about the size of a double decker bus each at least. One says frightening, one says not at all frightening and one says they simply disappeared from time to time, to which the paper says others confirm, but has none of these recollections, just conflicting examples listed.

To be honest, it does not seem all that consistent at all.

I'm not sure that consistency to that level of detail really matters. Does it matter whether it has 10 lights compared to 6 or 8? Does it matter whether it is frightening to some and not to others. I really wouldn't let that worry you too much. Some may have seen it from a different angle, some may have seen it on the move, some partially obscure by buildings or cloud. It really surprises me little that there are discrepancies. The important thing is the overall picture. This was a mass sighting of a huge object that indeed caused many to be scared, while others clearly saw it as a novelty or even a hoax. That something caused a major concern to the security of one of Americas research reactors has to be of grave concern and needs explanation I would have thought.

When I listened to the first witness on the video I just know that he witnessed something incredible. So did the female police officer, so did the guy who stopped by the road with the small party of on lookers. This is real, and all I can say is that f it was a hoax, it was well executed, very costly, highly risky, and totally pointless. If it was the military, then why scare the pants of the security personnel at the reactor. Nothing rational really makes sense. We have to look at the irrational as uncomfortable as that may be.

[zoser]

Zoser, great thread mate and some of that close range eyewitness testimony is pretty darn compelling - there's a good news article here about the sightings and Nick Pope from the British Ministry of Defence makes an interesting comment below about the objects appearance and flight characteristics.

Cheers!

Nice article. Interesting how no-one came forward in the article with an alternative explanation. This case does not seem to have attracted the same skeptical analysis as the case of the Phoenix Lights. Maybe I will find it as I keep looking.

[zoser]

Recommended Clip

UFO Sightings

Twenty-five years ago, some 7200 people reported seeing a V-shaped unidentified flying object in the skies of Putnam and Westchester County.

Police officer Kevin Soravilla's testimony is particularly interesting. Also mentioned on the clip is some possible link to ancient chambers or burial sites; not sure about this personally but I keep an open mind.

http://www.lohud.com/VideoNetwork/49441685001/UFO-Sightings

[preacherman76]

Im having a flash back. Its 1983-4?, I believe summer time. Im 7 or 8 years old. its probably between 8 and 9 pm. My mom comes into the living room and asks if I want to come with her to pick up my older sister from work. Of course I couldnt be bothered cause I was watching this new TV show called V. Looking back its one of about 4 decissions I spent years wishing I could take back. Anyhow, bout 30 mins later my mom and sister come in the house freaking out. Claiming they just witnessed a craft "as big as a football field" hovering over old forgehill rd. They parked and watched it hover for about 10 mins. Others parked along the road as well to get a good look. Then it took off tward the hudson river, and out of thier site. It wasnt till many years later, through the internet, that I found out how big a deal that sighting really was, and how many people saw it.

When I told my Mother years later that they said it was ultra light air craft, she litteraly just broke out laughing. And just to note, my Mother doesnt ever speak of anything not reality based. She never cared anything about UFO's or ghosts, or whatever. But she will still tell you about that night in the hudson valley.

[Rafterman]

Could this the same craft that flew over Phoenix in 1997?

I would speculate that anyone would have a hard time seeing flares dropped over the Barry Goldwater testing range from the Hudson Valley.

Not saying that it's impossible, but it would be hard.

[zoser]

Im having a flash back. Its 1983-4?, I believe summer time. Im 7 or 8 years old. its probably between 8 and 9 pm. My mom comes into the living room and asks if I want to come with her to pick up my older sister from work. Of course I couldnt be bothered cause I was watching this new TV show called V. Looking back its one of about 4 decissions I spent years wishing I could take back. Anyhow, bout 30 mins later my mom and sister come in the house freaking out. Claiming they just witnessed a craft "as big as a football field" hovering over old forgehill rd. They parked and watched it hover for about 10 mins. Others parked along the road as well to get a good look. Then it took off tward the hudson river, and out of thier site. It wasnt till many years later, through the internet, that I found out how big a deal that sighting really was, and how many people saw it.

When I told my Mother years later that they said it was ultra light air craft, she litteraly just broke out laughing. And just to note, my Mother doesnt ever speak of anything not reality based. She never cared anything about UFO's or ghosts, or whatever. But she will still tell you about that night in the hudson valley.

Thanks for sharing the experience; did your sister and mother both feel that the object had no 'down to earth explanation'? Did they see any distinct details on the object? I appreciate the time gap but just thought I would ask.

[zoser]

I would speculate that anyone would have a hard time seeing flares dropped over the Barry Goldwater testing range from the Hudson Valley.

Not saying that it's impossible, but it would be hard.

Yes regarding the Phoenix lights, if the event could be explained by flares then the case would have been written off and forgotten by now. It's clearly not that simple.

[woundman]

My grandparents live in Dutchess county, NY and they used to take me to the fair when I visited them from Maine. I have a vague memory of a sighting which occurred at the fairgrounds, mind you I was born in 1982 so my recollection and memory itself could be flawed....

It was the late 1980's, i'm guessing '87 or '88 somewhere around there, my Grandfather had taken me to the fair. I remember it was really hot out, even when the sun went down - either July or August. It was dark, so we got some food and needed a place to relax. We had taken a seat in the biggest stadium, there was a country singer that my grandfather wanted to see performing that night.

There were probably a few hundred, maybe a thousand other people in the stands all talking and laughing; the show hadn't started yet. But then it got quiet, and people started pointing at the sky. Everyone was watching this boomerang shaped flying thing slowly cross over the fairgrounds from above the treeline, very far away. Well lit and it looked as though it was shaped like a boomerang, or 1/2 circle. The lights seemed to stay basically constant, some flickering, some color changes but mainly white and a couple red.

The audience was quiet, mostly whispers and kids asking what it was....obviously no one knew. We all watched the boomerang-lights for about 5 minutes making its way to the area approximately above the stadium, where it paused for about a minute, and then the lights started going dim...and thats when it split. From a total of about 20-25 lights, it split into 3 groups of about 6-8, forming 3 smaller half-circle boomerang shapes and began moving out of sight.

The audience sat in silence for another couple of minutes, with alot of whispering going on. The people putting on the show were all talking amongst themselves. Eventually, the host came back on stage and announced that the show would be starting in a few minutes, and made no mention of the utter madness we had all just witnessed, he probably was ****ting his pants like the rest of us.

Now i did a google search for boomerang ufo...and what do i find? a website for dutchess county UFO sightings with an EXACT picture of what we all saw that night....hence prompting me to post this reply and include the pic.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=dutchess+county+boomerang&um=1&hl=en&biw=1047&bih=498&tbm=isch&tbnid=Od7v0THg0CQ2yM:&imgrefurl=http://realtvufos.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html&docid=xOaCp2RtLHwPUM&imgurl=http://www.temporaldoorway.com/mufonct/image/watrbury.jpg&w=640&h=480&ei=MCDOT8PqEISM6QG12oSzDA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=303&sig=104203139592374634397&page=3&tbnh=142&tbnw=225&start=23&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:23,i:136&tx=144&ty=58

http://www.rense.com/general42/coverup.htm

Thats my story, its hazy and its from the way-back, but thats it. My grandfather is now approaching 90 and cant remember where he left his hat, so getting more info out of him isn't feasible nor reliable.

[woundman]

@preacherman76 wow, similar situations!

[Hazzard]

Yes regarding the Phoenix lights, if the event could be explained by flares then the case would have been written off and forgotten by now. It's clearly not that simple.

It has been written off and forgotten about.

Granted there are still some hard core believers speculating/wishing that this was ET buzzing the locals,... but to the rest of the world this is a non-event.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Hazzard

[TheMcGuffin]

It has been written off and forgotten about.

Granted there are still some hard core believers speculating/wishing that this was ET buzzing the locals,... but for the rest of the world this is a non-event.

Sorry, wrong thread. I haven't really looked into the Hudson Valley sightings much, at least beyond what Hynek wrote in his last book Night Siege.

According to that book, and later observations:

"Most of the reports from that area at that time seem to support the idea that this thing was very large, silent and very low. Most of the estimates place it around 500-800 feet above the ground. Bradley international airport is close by, so how can an object this large come into a populated area and go undetected by radar? Local police were baffled by the sightings. State police told them that the sightings were caused by nothing more than a group of stunt planes flying in formation. The FAA official at Bradley would not confirm or deny if they had anything on radar but insisted that the entire sighting over the Hartford area was most likely a hoax with a hot air balloon. However, many people who saw the object that night say that the explanations don't fit. As one building inspector in the Hartford area said: "This thing about balloons and aircraft is a lot of crap".

http://www.ufoeviden...ents/doc673.htm

PS I'm surprised that anyone since about 1957 would still use the balloon "explanation". That one is just a little moldy at this late date, LOL.

Edited June 5, 2012 by TheMcGuffin

[psyche101]

I'm not sure that consistency to that level of detail really matters. Does it matter whether it has 10 lights compared to 6 or 8? Does it matter whether it is frightening to some and not to others. I really wouldn't let that worry you too much. Some may have seen it from a different angle, some may have seen it on the move, some partially obscure by buildings or cloud. It really surprises me little that there are discrepancies. The important thing is the overall picture. This was a mass sighting of a huge object that indeed caused many to be scared, while others clearly saw it as a novelty or even a hoax. That something caused a major concern to the security of one of Americas research reactors has to be of grave concern and needs explanation I would have thought.

Zoser

Why it matters in this instance is because Karl said:

Zoser, great thread mate and some of that close range eyewitness testimony is pretty darn compelling

I find the statement to be erroneous, as I do not see how such disparte allegations are compelling. And upon your response, it would appear that you agree that the accounts are not consistent. Red Flag No 1.

And you admit that it was partially cloudy and that vision was not 100%, which leads to the likelihood that many descriptions may well be distorted by the weather at the time. I believe the overall picture is inconsistent with a UFO, but consistent with a desperate stab at a solution.

Yes, in this instance lights are very important, it gives us some idea of possible scale. Some state they believe this thing was three football fields long, and could see the undercarriage, I am an electrical engineer and very often deal with illumination and I can tell you that the lux levels required are massive for that area. This tells me that some people are describing a thing that cannot be done. The less lights, the less likely the recollections are accurate. Like people wh try to tell you the eye colour of a bigfoot 200 meters away, it is simply impossible to do. There are no special ET Laws for Alien light refracting differently in our atmosphere. Physics are the same across the Universe.

When I listened to the first witness on the video I just know that he witnessed something incredible. So did the female police officer, so did the guy who stopped by the road with the small party of on lookers. This is real, and all I can say is that f it was a hoax, it was well executed, very costly, highly risky, and totally pointless. If it was the military, then why scare the pants of the security personnel at the reactor. Nothing rational really makes sense. We have to look at the irrational as uncomfortable as that may be.

You did not click on the link I provided for you did you? I cannot say I am surprised, if not rather disappointed. The Stormville Flyers admitted to having attached multi coloured lights, turning them off in formation, with the goal of creating a hoax. How many "witnesses" do we have when the people who actually reported planes are taken away?

We have an actual confession.

But I believe your motivation is this personal conviction:

Yes regarding the Phoenix lights, if the event could be explained by flares then the case would have been written off and forgotten by now. It's clearly not that simple.

It is that simple. Human imagination keeps these stories alive, Roswell has been bandied about for over 60 years! And what do we have? Some newspaper clippings and conflicting testimonies and you wonder why I say big deal? Why is it that people who say nonsense like this are too scared to counter the math Boon did? Why is it anyone who claims Phoenix lights were Aliens has not the confidence to best Lost Shamans triangulation calcs? How do you dismiss Mitch Stanley who had the best view out of all witnesses that night? All of this goes out the window because some random person in the street says the lights were a UFO? Where is the proof that anything in phoenix was from another planet? When did it leave the solar system, and how could it with the amateur community? You are relying on some guesses from people who simply had no idea, yet triangulation, telescope views, and actual picture showing the flares disappear behind a mountain are not enough? How do you call that an unbiased conclusion?

If you think the Phoenix lights are alien in origin, I challenge you to counter the math done on the incident to date, because it proves you are wrong about this. Lets see if you have the fortitude to stand behind your conviction.

Edited June 7, 2012 by psyche101

[psyche101]

Now i did a google search for boomerang ufo...and what do i find? a website for dutchess county UFO sightings with an EXACT picture of what we all saw that night....hence prompting me to post this reply and include the pic.

http://www.google.co...36&tx=144&ty=58

Thats my story, its hazy and its from the way-back, but thats it. My grandfather is now approaching 90 and cant remember where he left his hat, so getting more info out of him isn't feasible nor reliable.

Prime example of witnesses making description that do not fit the sighting.

The above link leads to this picture

That is not a boomerang, it could be described as circular, semi circular or crescent.

This is a boomerang

Boomerangs have a point.

Some might think, well, close, but what would chinese whispers do to this "recollection"?

For one, two people who were describing different things are now thought to be seeing the same thing.