The beginning..

[jpalz]

Go to the thread about the 11 year old boy raping the 76 year old woman and see what everyone thinks they should do to the 11 year old. Most popular answer...................... execution.

But I don't intend to execute him and then burn him in Hell for all eternity! The Hebrew God would! That is pure evil!

Beowulf, God doesn't send you to Hell. YOU CHOOSE TO GO THERE.

You once told that all Native Americans are in Hell. That's false. I found some time ago a document (Conciliar Constitution about the Church) that says, from what I can remember, that people who didn't know about God because the never had the chance to hear from Him (as the Native Americans) are not sent into Hell inmediatly. I'll go see it again to bring you up the full statement, but the proof for what I'm saying is right there, I just have to find it in my school's library.

[kill_them_all533]

Ah, the infinite question. We live by faith not sight. But, you understand God is real because those who believe in Him have too many miracles and unfathomble things to deny His existance. But, who made God? God wasn't made. If He was the oner who made Him would be God. God has mysterious ways. He didn't explain His "start" He has always been and always will be. He is God.

miracles can be explained in time just as everything else. just as i have near my name "a hidden truth supports everything, find it and win..." many medical situations where death was immineit (i know i cant spell bear with me) the patient came out alive were called miracles unexplained. but as expected it was blamed on god. 3 years later... they find out exactly what happend. thouh i can not find proof god does not exist, i have found many logical explainations though i can never prove them just as believers can never prove there religion. they place all there faith on a book that tells of what people did thousands on years ago. for all you know that guy who wrote the book was crazy, or the people he wrote about. but im not questioning the religion itself i give up trying to find answers, just the orginal question... if there is a god... where did he come from.

[Seraphina]

Beowulf, has anyone told you that you really know how to make your fellow athiests feel redundant? You're carrying the arguement just fine on your own dude...*isn't used to watching from the sidelines*

[DrStrangelove]

Hahahaha, you guys are great fun.

[Kat_Kloud]

You once told that all Native Americans are in Hell. That's false. I found some time ago a document (Conciliar Constitution about the Church) that says, from what I can remember, that people who didn't know about God because the never had the chance to hear from Him (as the Native Americans) are not sent into Hell inmediatly. I'll go see it again to bring you up the full statement, but the proof for what I'm saying is right there, I just have to find it in my school's library.

Wait a minute... so if we don't believe in god after we've heard of him we go to hell? And hell is supposedly a fiery abyss in which we must burn for all eternity??? And christians wonder why the fights are aimed towards them?

I learn something new everyday.

[beowulf]

Yummy! Giants... /drool

Genesis 6:1-4

I like Giant talk.

Bible talks about some that had 6 fingers and toes, and then some bones were found here in America and a couple other countries in Europe I think that had giant bones with 6 fingers/toes and the trail stops at the Smithsonian and the Vatican...

Genesis 6:1-4 reads:

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

Last time I checked, Giants that were the children of the Sons of God didn't qualify as demons, demi-gods maybe, but demons never - try again (gee ain't mythology fun?)

You once told that all Native Americans are in Hell. That's false. I found some time ago a document (Conciliar Constitution about the Church) that says, from what I can remember, that people who didn't know about God because the never had the chance to hear from Him (as the Native Americans) are not sent into Hell inmediatly.

It is my understanding that church generated documents are the words of man, not of god….your god said that they would go to Hell….end of discussion. Unless you can come up with scriptures that say otherwise my Indian (and preXian Celtic) ancestors are toasting in Hell, according to your religion anyway!

from what I can remember, that people who didn't know about God because the never had the chance to hear from Him (as the Native Americans) are not sent into Hell inmediatly

you must be mormon, that is their belief! They believe that any who have not accepted Mormonism will be given a chance to do so in the "Spirit World". Try again.

Beowulf, has anyone told you that you really know how to make your fellow athiests feel redundant?  You're carrying the arguement just fine on your own dude...*isn't used to watching from the sidelines* 

Sera, any little help would be appreciated, but ol’ Beowulf, on another website, carried on and won 5 different debates simultaneously (no brag, just fact); still feel free to jump in whenever you wish….I Just wish amateur historians would quit trying to justify mythology with skewed history…..

Incidentally I am a Deist, but then what is a Deist but an Atheist that refuses to admit that there is no Creator!

Edited September 24, 2004 by beowulf

[Celumnaz]

Last time I checked, Giants that were the children of the Sons of God didn't qualify as demons, demi-gods maybe, but demons never - try again (gee ain't mythology fun?)

Last time I checked, I didn't say they were demons and neither did anybody else.

What are you trying to accomplish by saying "try again"? Are you trying to be clever? Are you trying to be condescending? What's with the "gee ain't mythology fun?"? Are you trying to be snide? Last I checked Demonic was an adjective, not a noun.

[beowulf]

What are you trying to accomplish by saying "try again"? Are you trying to be clever? Are you trying to be condescending? What's with the "gee ain't mythology fun?"? Are you trying to be snide?

Call it however you want, I could care less!

Last I checked Demonic was an adjective, not a noun.

I didn't use the word demonic, Saucy did, get your facts straight. How could people tell that you weren't responding to saucy's "demon children" posting or mine asking him for scripture references, which it seemed that you provided - again get your facts straight!

[Celumnaz]

It was a time when Satan had a major influence on the world and his demons were attacking and raping women and they were having demonic children.

Ya know Saucy, I sure would like to the bible references on this, I don’t think this is anywhere in the Old or New Testament.

My ears perk up, I'm interested in giants...

Genesis 6:1-4

I like Giant talk.

Last time I checked, Giants that were the children of the Sons of God didn't qualify as demons, demi-gods maybe, but demons never - try again (gee ain't mythology fun?)

Last time I checked, I didn't say they were demons and neither did anybody else.

Except beowulf.

Call it however you want, I could care less!

I didn't use the word demonic, Saucy did, get your facts straight.  How could people tell that you weren't responding to saucy's "demon children" posting or mine asking him for scripture references, which it seemed that you provided - again get your facts straight! 

It's ok. You don't believe it anyway, so why should it matter to you? I do, so it should matter to me, but why is it so important to you?

[beowulf]

but why is it so important to you?

Because I hate to see gullible young children led astray by false prophets!

[Mishari]

This is just stupid. God is Eternal and he has been always there from the beginning until the end. No one created God and there is no one above him. These kind of questions can not simply be answered by us because none of us have spoken directly to God or seen God and this kind of thing is above our intelligence and our imagination. Even the prophets, only selected ones got the chance to speak to god directly but the only one that got really close to God was the prophet Mohammed where he entered "The Room" where god is at and no ever has entered it not even Gabrail himself. But still the prophet Mohammed still didn't see God.

Edited September 25, 2004 by Mishari

[Kat_Kloud]

WHy do people still beleive in the man in the sky gig

[jpalz]

I'm a little short of time: but I've got the document and will post it here a little bit later. Beowulf, do you think I'm a mormon? FYI, I'm not. I'll put it here.

As for Kat Kloud, the fact that you are from another religion doesn't mean that you will go to Hell inmediatly. It depends on the person. I know this isn't very satisfactory, but the claim you did in that post: "Wait a minute... so if we don't believe in god after we've heard of him we go to hell? And hell is supposedly a fiery abyss in which we must burn for all eternity??? And christians wonder why the fights are aimed towards them?

I learn something new everyday", well, you'll get the answer soon enough. Going to a party. I know I should have posted the thing earlier, but well, you learn from mistakes right?

[Seraphina]

because none of us have spoken directly to God or seen God

Yet...you insist he's real?

[moe eubleck]

Moe has never spoken with or seen an ocelot. Yet they are rumored to be real.

[Seraphina]

Ah, but there is actually physical evidence to suggest they do exist I'd guess that's because they do

[crosswarrior]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M being sucked into another religious debate!!!!!!!

Well after looking at this ummmmm.... thread, I have no idea what is the centeral issue(if indeed there was one); but as for the arguement of eternal damnnation, I'll put in my two cents. It seems that just about every religion has some kind of impending doom on any "infidel" that refuses to bow the knee. Now there can only be one truth, and if you miss it your screwed. So when you die your taking a gamble on whatevers on the other end( or if there's anything at all) So take your choice of religion whither it worships God or a test-tube; and get ready to live with the decision. But if you cram your religion down someone's throat, be ready for them to do likewise.

[Kat_Kloud]

As for Kat Kloud, the fact that you are from another religion doesn't mean that you will go to Hell inmediatly.

I hate that word: religion. GAh! *Stomps word to the ground* I dunno. Just don't like that word.

Anyways, so I won't immediately go to Hell. But I'll still go to hell.

*Chucks a handful of goldfish crackers into mouth* Alright man. *chews* What if I don't wanna go to hell. What if I think when I die I become of equal or greater power to your God, decide to rebel against the dude, and go off to start my own peaceful realm? WHOO! Yeah. Who'll join me? Yeah. So like. I'm not the kind of person to just go to hell. cause. I'm supposed to. It's called. Erm. REBELING. Like from Star Wars. You know them right? Right. The good guys. If anyone thinks they're going to try to stuff my soul in a fiery abyss they can kiss my *** cause I'm going where I please once I die. I like the cool temperatures better anyways. Maybe if Hell froze over... *hm*

[blazer2004]

we all go to heaven to be judged its just when jesus opens the secret ahem door that drops ya straight down then you will know your going to hell

[Thistle]

Anyways, so I won't immediately go to Hell. But I'll still go to hell.

And I'm sure I'll see you there but in the meantime can we concentrate on the original topic and not who's going to burn in hell for eternity?

Thankyou

[Kat_Kloud]

*cough* okay what was the topic again?

Cause you know, these type of topics always lead to another topic which is why one topic should exiost for these and it shall be called.... "THAT DARN TOPIC"

[Thistle]

these type of topics always lead to another topic

Well yes they do, which is why your local friendly mods and forum leaders are always here to remind you what the original topic was

[jpalz]

Okey, this was the text I was talking about, it was mentioned by John Paul II, the actual Pope, in a book named "Crossing the threshold of Hope". If the titles is wrong, feel free to correct me, I'm just translating the title from the Spanish version, along with the rest of the quote, which is taken from the "Conciliar Constitution about the Church":

"Those who without fault ignore the Gospel of Christ and his Church, and however look sincerely for God and with the help of the grace strive to fulfil with actions His Will, known through consciousness' judgement, may reach eternal life. Also the Divine Providence doesn't deny the neccesary aids for salvation to those who haven't reached the clear knowledge and recognition of God and strive, not without the holy grace, for reaching a rightjeus life"

So, if God helps people who don't know of Him to reach eternal life, why he would want to inmediatly condemn them as you're saying, beowulf, that all Native Americans are in Hell just because they didn't know of God?

[Universal Absurdity]

Why dont we start categorizing what god we are talking about? This thread is obviously about the christian god, unfortunately its not the only god there is.

The Original Question, 'In the beginning god created the universe...who created him?' has such a wide opening for answers, yet everyone automaticly assumes the christian god. But dont most religions have a beginning where god created the universe?

Please everyone, no more bible talk, Just state your opinion on what created god, or if you think god is infinite, and why.

--------------------------------------------------

And my response to this thread is:

To find out what god is, and how long god has been around, we must first find out where energy comes from. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, and everything is made up of energy. So to find out would in fact lead us directly to what god is, and eventually to how long its been around.

Edited September 25, 2004 by UniversalAbsurdity

[aquatus1]

Actually, most gods were created from the universe. From the Netherlands we get stories of reindeer licking the ice and eventually freeing the gods. Vishna was born of the ultimate lotus. And in a rather astounding Freudian nightmare of a tale, Gaia gives birth to herself, to Uranus ("Earth's Child"), then has his children, the titans, who eventually give way to most of the Greek pantheon.

Now, since the title of this thread is made up of the first four words of the Bible, I'm going to assume that isn't a coincidence and talk about Yahweh. According to science, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Whatever God was at the beginning, wether, chaos, entropy, what have you, He was clearly the first state in which particles existed prior to becoming matter. This to me would indicate that he was energy of some kind, possibly gravitational, as that arguably does not require anything other than itself to exist. Because of that, then, I would have to conclude that God has always existed and can never be destroyed. Where He came from is a moot question, as energy is infinite.

Edited September 25, 2004 by aquatus1