Tantalising Testimony

[TheMacGuffin]

Look up Walter Dornberger, a Project Paperclip scientist who once famously said "I didn't come to this country to lose the Third World War. I already lost two".

[WoIverine]

Look up Walter Dornberger, a Project Paperclip scientist who once famously said "I didn't come to this country to lose the Third World War. I already lost two".

Ever hear the story of von Braun talking about greys? It's probably hearsay, (I can't remember where I saw, or read about it) kind of interesting though.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Spid3rCyd3

[badeskov]

On second thought, no comment. Let's just allow others made up their minds about what the truth really is.

Sorry for the belated post, but I would not call you a liar as I do not think that you are. I just doubt the interpretation of what you have seen. Hence what I wrote.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[TheMacGuffin]

I have always thought that there were some fantastic UFO pictures on this one, and that either we are flying around something very advanced that the public has no clue about...or someone else else.

[WoIverine]

The triangular craft in that video at 32 seconds is intense! You can see actual details. These small orbs that keep circling the planet along with satellites, they have to be some kind of probes, or drones.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Spid3rCyd3

[TheMacGuffin]

The triangular craft in that video at 32 seconds is intense! You can see actual details. These small orbs that keep circling the planet along with satellites, they have to be some kind of probes, or drones.

There are a number of UFOs on there that were never explained as far as I know, although some were. The rest remain a question mark. Like I said, either we have a secret space program that's far more advanced than anything publicly known (was Gary McKinnon right about that all along?) or someone else is tooling around up there. Maybe both.

[TheMacGuffin]

Operation Moon Dust and Blue Fly were part of the same unit that investigated UFOs and part of their mission was to retrieve any objects that crashed from space, whether Soviet or "unknown". Most of these records are still classified, although it is known that teams were sent to Kecksburg, PA in 1965, and to Bolivia, Sudan, Nepal, South Africa and other foreign countries.

Many have tried to get these UFO records, but with very limited success.

• 
  
  In 1965, a three-man team was sent to recover an object of unknown origin reported downed in
  Kecksburg
  , PA. (Witnesses state an object was recovered; the Air Force says nothing was found.)
  
  
• 
  
  In August 1967, an object described as a satellite crashed and was recovered in the
  Sudan
  under
  Moon Dust
  . (The description on the
  DIA
  document released by the State Department does not fit that of a satellite.)
  
  
• 
  
  In 1968,
  Project Moon Dust
  recovered four unknown objects in
  Nepal
  .
  
  
• 
  
  Also in 1968, a “dome-shaped object” with no identification marks was retrieved underwater off Cape Town,
  South Africa
  . The metal object had been subjected to extreme heat and showed no signs of corrosion.
  NASA
  determined it was made of “almost pure aluminum” and stated that the
  NASA
  analysis of the sample and photographs “does not otherwise provide a clue as to its origin or function although it is possible it is a space object of US origin.”
  
  
• 
  
  In 1970,
  Moon Dust
  investigated a metal sphere that fell “with three loud explosions and then burned for five days” in
  South America
  . It had “ports” which had been melted closed.
  
  
• 
  
  A May 1970 State Department document describes a fallen, unidentified object in
  Bolivia
  , depicted in the newspapers as metal and egg-shaped. The Department expresses a desire to assist the Bolivian Air Force in the investigation. “The general region had more than its share of reports of
  UFOs
  this past week,” the document notes.
  
  
• 
  
  It says that
  Panama
  and
  Paraguay
  checked with appropriate government agencies and “no direct correlation with known space objects that may have reentered the earth’s atmosphere near May 6 can be made.”
  
  

http://www.bibliotec...pol_mj12_3k.htm

Edited July 15, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

We can neither confirm nor deny the existence or nonexistence of records responsive to your request regarding "Projects or Operations known as BLUE FLY, MOON DUST, AFCIN SOP, and ICGL#4," as any other response could reveal classified information concerning military plans, weapons, or operations under section 1.3 (a) (1) of Executive Order 12356, "National Security Information." Therefore, pursuant to Title 5, United States Code (USC), Section 552(1), and Air Force Regulation 12-30, paragraph 10a, your request is denied.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ufosreal/ufosreal03.htm

Edited July 15, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[WoIverine]

There are a number of UFOs on there that were never explained as far as I know, although some were. The rest remain a question mark. Like I said, either we have a secret space program that's far more advanced than anything publicly known (was Gary McKinnon right about that all along?) or someone else is tooling around up there. Maybe both.

Reminds me of the story a couple of weeks ago, where two high powered, radically advanced space telescopes were given to nasa by the government. Nasa apparently stated that the telescopes were more advanced than anything they had. A secret space program wouldn't surprise me.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Spid3rCyd3

[TheMacGuffin]

Reminds me of the story a couple of weeks ago, where two high powered, radically advanced space telescopes were given to nasa by the government. Nasa apparently stated that the telescopes were more advanced than anything they had. A secret space program wouldn't surprise me.

I have heard and read that in other places, too, basically that NASA is not getting the truly first-rate technology and that its plans, budget and programs have never been the first priority. I really do think that we have far more advanced stuff flying around, but I have no direct knowledge of it myself.

[DONTEATUS]

Who wants to Go first ?

Man the Imagination we have in here !

Look very closely before you speak,THe STS 115 shots are for sure a reflection by the cam-opperator ! And On ,and On to the End !

[TheMacGuffin]

Who wants to Go first ?

Man the Imagination we have in here !

Look very closely before you speak,THe STS 115 shots are for sure a reflection by the cam-opperator ! And On ,and On to the End !

Project Blue Book never got the good stuff either. There was another organization operating simultaneously, and probably still is for all I know, but getting information about it has always been very difficult.

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[psyche101]

There is a very extensive discussion here about John Schuessler's investigation of the Cash-Landrum UFO case in 1980. He describes how he attempted to obtain medical help for the three victims, but that the doctors did not know what kind of radiation they had been exposed to, so they were unable to treat them. They could never find out what the UFO was or where it came from, and even an officer from the Army Inspector General's office could not get any real information about it, except that there may have been as many as 100 military helicopters sent out after it from several different bases.

HI MacGuffin

I did not know radiation worked like that, as far as I know when a nuclear reaction happens, it does not produce the radiation, just the reaction, the irradiated material is a result of the surrounding environment that is affected by the reaction as things are reassembled at an atomic level. As I understand the definitions, they should be charcoal, badly burned, or suffering from irradiated materials (Acute Radiation Sickness). I don't know that that above makes much sense to be honest. Rather than radiation type being of importance, I thought it was exposure that was of importance. I do not know that ARS can be treated. Again, I am quite sure that it would depend on the level of exposure. Low energy radiation would not create the symptoms described, and particulate ones are deadly but according to levels of exposure. A lead suit comes in pretty darn handy with any type of radiation. I do not know that ARS deduces a radiation "type", just death.

If it was some machine produced by a secret government project, they could never find any evidence for it, even up to the present day.

Considering the collateral damage, that is quite unlikely to change. But the NERVA project would have to be a prime suspect considering the comments from supportive military personell.

He also notes that Phil Klass treated the three victims horribly, which doesn't surprise me at all, and even said that they had hoaxed the whole thing. This was outrageous given that two of them later died as a result of their injuries, but that's how Klass really was--a liar.

I guess one mans poison is another mans wine. Without Uncle Phil going hard on these cases, that would leave the entire field wide open for every snake oil salesman in the business. That would make things 100 time worse than what they are if nobody every applied an ounce of responsibility. Why I like Phil Klass is because he pursued cases, he did not just accept them at face value and go "ohh yes, another alien visited huh!" I really do not see what that sort of molly coddling does for anyone to be perfectly honest, all it does is wedge the door open for dishonesty, simply due to human nature. What we can see in such instances is the UFO Proponent side definitely slowing answers and holding back research, as with McDonald stopping work on plasma. McDonald must have known that plasma was going to explain many UFO claims, and he made sure it was stopped so his investigations could continue. Had he not given that research the undeserved 30 year hiatus, we might have more answers than we do today. As such I laugh heartily when noobs come in here and say skeptics fear the truth, They definitely have that shoe on the wrong foot, skeptics are the ones who do not lose. If the answer is ET, we win an opportunity to learn swathes of new information. If the skeptics are right, and all occurrences can be explained by earthly process, we also end up with a very good understanding of our own environment. It's win win for skeptics. The only people who stand to lose anything are believers, they lose that which they have placed their faith in.

If anything, Phil Klass is a lesson that only empirical evidence actually holds qualified answers. One can dream until the cows come home, but it remains a dream. Reality is wet fish in the face that we have to deal with every day and why we must pay mortgages and in 60 years, the Alien answer has not progressed into a solution. That might be as you say a Government intervention, but as the world shrinks, that scenario just does not work. If it is indeed the stumbling block, then the shrinking earth will expose that, and in the near future as really, it should have already. As such, there has to be more than one answer to the phenomena. How can the US hold this secret if China becomes the new super power? Do alleged aliens in cahoots with the US "switch sides"? Or do they stay loyal to the US and expose themselves? Wether aliens are a part of that or not remains to be seen. This world certainly takes all types and UFOLogy is a rather distinctive marker of these types. Klass and McDonald, chalk and cheeses, yet under the same pursuit, if their goals were as one, we will never know. That mystery will remain buried forever.

[TheMacGuffin]

Kevin Randle gave a much longer talk about Len Stringfield and UFO crashes. He has also written a new book called Crash. He does think that most of them are bogus and hoaxes, including the 1948 Aztec crash. Indeed, the 1948 story was revealed to be so blatantly fake that it discouraged UFO investigators from even looking at this subject for 30 years.

If the Lost Shaman disinformation and smokescreen hypothesis is true, I believe that it applies even more to the Aztec events than Roswell, especially because two con artists were openly involved and government agents were actually encouraging them to spread this story around--all the better to discredit it. In fact, the MacGuffin Hypothesis would call something like that a "diversion".

He also exposes the Del Rio crash of 1950 (or 1954) and Robert Willingham as frauds, for example. He wasn't a pilot at the time and the crash never happened.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVNJiP9xfqg&feature=related[/media]

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

HI MacGuffin

I did not know radiation worked like that, as far as I know when a nuclear reaction happens, it does not produce the radiation, just the reaction, the irradiated material is a result of the surrounding environment that is affected by the reaction as things are reassembled at an atomic level. As I understand the definitions, they should be charcoal, badly burned, or suffering from irradiated materials (Acute Radiation Sickness). I don't know that that above makes much sense to be honest. Rather than radiation type being of importance, I thought it was exposure that was of importance. I do not know that ARS can be treated. Again, I am quite sure that it would depend on the level of exposure. Low energy radiation would not create the symptoms described, and particulate ones are deadly but according to levels of exposure. A lead suit comes in pretty darn handy with any type of radiation. I do not know that ARS deduces a radiation "type", just death.

From listening to this tape, I got the impression that the physicians were really puzzled by their symptoms and uncertain about the cause or the proper type of treatment. they just didn't know what it was and could never find out.

As for Uncle Phil, I think he was genuinely a bad guy, and never at his worst than when he harassed the victims of this case and accused them of fraud. Two of them DIED after all, and the other was very ill for years.

[TheMacGuffin]

George filer has a lot of interesting UFO stories, such as a group of German scientists at White Sands who saw a UFO land and five small aliens going outside to collect rock samples, and that one base actually had a "UFO Scheduling Officer" to coordinate the times when they landed to pick up supplies. Filer never found out whether they were our UFOs or someone else's.

He had information about UFOs in Britain that "got mad" at RAF fighters shooting at them and sometimes retaliated, and he also chased one himself. According to Filer, they never bothered unarmed aircraft, but did get upset when someone tried to shoot at them. The one he chased was huge and when it saw the jets coming it sped off into space at extremely high speed.

Filer also had information that Lord Mountbatten had seen UFOs "up close", and he heard this personally from Prince Phillip.

When he was stationed at McGuire Air Force Base in new Jersey, he also saw an alien shot dead by the military police.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOS5hSwVIok&feature=relmfu[/media]

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

Filer believes that we have lost "quite a few" planes that were sent up after UFOs, and so do I. I have heard of that 1959 case over Japan that got disintegrated by a UFO after firing missiles at it. These things have happened more than once.

Filer says that there are vaults full of UFO records, pictures and gun camera films, but they are they most highly classified thing in the U.S. military. He's right about that.

The dead alien that got shot was actually hit by the Army MPs at Ft. Dix, and was then chased around by them as well as the state police.

They shot him five times, and he was left dead on the runway at McGuire.

As Filer recalled it, a number of UFOs gathered over the base, including one that landed, and they seemed very "upset" about it. The dead alien was flown back to Wright-Patterson AFB, and Filer was there when this happened.

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

By the way, Filer also says that the old movie Hangar 18 was actually backed by the military as part of the public education program. It's a true story.

I know from experience that you can find out a lot about UFOs once you indicate that you're interested in them.

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[psyche101]

From listening to this tape, I got the impression that the physicians were really puzzled by their symptoms and uncertain about the cause or the proper type of treatment. they just didn't know what it was and could never find out.

Perhaps it had more to with experience, radiation sickness would not have much of a history at the time. I really do not know how one would know the effects of say a H bomb as opposed to an A bomb with regard to residual sickness, I do not thing the damage done by radiation is that specific.

As for Uncle Phil, I think he was genuinely a bad guy, and never at his worst than when he harassed the victims of this case and accused them of fraud. Two of them DIED after all, and the other was very ill for years.

I know, and you are entitled to your opinion, I just see an entirely different facet. By dismissing the emotions displayed by claimants, any single person must agree that an element of conjecture has been removed. I understand what you are saying, and yes, I agree Phil was pretty cold at times. But this was his achievement the way I see it. No too many can, or wish to turn a blind eye to emotion, but it can sway a decision completely. Phil did not know the people, so he did what any good investigator did, and what so many balk at. He asked the hard questions. And at times, yes I agree they were harsh, and I totally understand why some see this method as unsavoury, and perhaps in a sense it was, but at the end of the day, it was honest, and Phil was transparent. That is why he copped it from one end to the other when he put forth an incorrect prosaic explanation. He hid his workings and conclusions from nobody. It was not always right, but it was always motivating, and in this sense, I think he got a great many people of their hineys and forced the to do better investigation. In this sense, I think he did us all a favor.

He might have been a "bad guy" but because of this he was a good investigator. His conclusions were not always right, I'll be the first to admit that, but I appreciate that he made people think, instead of lazily falling into that old rut that had people thinking a god called Zues used to hurl lightning bolts at the earth, An idea does not have to be correct for it to be popular.

As we say, it takes all types

[psyche101]

By the way, Filer also says that the old movie Hangar 18 was actually backed by the military as part of the public education program. It's a true story.

I know from experience that you can find out a lot about UFOs once you indicate that you're interested in them.

The recognised authors pf Hangar 18 do not seems to display any connection though. They are just writers.

[TheMacGuffin]

The recognised authors pf Hangar 18 do not seems to display any connection though. They are just writers.

You never know exactly what goes on in that particular program, but it has influenced quite a few movies. Or so they say. I once knew the original code name for the project but I forgot it.

[ChrLzs]

Gee. More and more and more and more 'fascinating' anecdotes...

Still awaiting evidence. The more fascinating anecdotes, the more strange it is, n'est ce pas, that there is no accompanying addition to the evidentiary collection, which currently stands at ... zero. Even though every Tom Dick and Harry nowadays can afford a quite capable camera, astronomers (both amateur and pro) are everywhere using affordable equipment that would have blown the minds of anyone in the 40's or 50's. Then there's the gov and military tech..

..and all we get are recycled stories which defy further investigation and result in the inevitable dead end..

And yes, before the inevitable - I do indeed just sit here sniping away, but this is such a HUGE target.. has there been any notable advance in the topic since, say, the 60's, OTHER than the inexplicable lack of new evidence despite the better technology now available to Joe Average?

Anyway, I'd have to say I'm definitely not 'tantalised' by any of this. Just tired and jaded.

[TheMacGuffin]

Gee. More and more and more and more 'fascinating' anecdotes...

Still awaiting evidence. The more fascinating anecdotes, the more strange it is, n'est ce pas, that there is no accompanying addition to the evidentiary collection, which currently stands at ... zero. Even though every Tom Dick and Harry nowadays can afford a quite capable camera, astronomers (both amateur and pro) are everywhere using affordable equipment that would have blown the minds of anyone in the 40's or 50's. Then there's the gov and military tech..

..and all we get are recycled stories which defy further investigation and result in the inevitable dead end..

And yes, before the inevitable - I do indeed just sit here sniping away, but this is such a HUGE target.. has there been any notable advance in the topic since, say, the 60's, OTHER than the inexplicable lack of new evidence despite the better technology now available to Joe Average?

Anyway, I'd have to say I'm definitely not 'tantalised' by any of this. Just tired and jaded.

On second thought, no comment.

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

I have about a million times more respect for people like Randle and Filer, who are at least out there trying to gather the evidence, as opposed to those who say that none of the evidence is real but make no contribution of any kind to the subject of UFOs.

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[electrified123]

Mrs Jesse Roestenberg and her children witness an extraordinary event in a village in Staffordshire England 1954. This one caught my attention on two accounts; she saw the pilots in detail, and the shear sincerity of her testimony is compelling.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQSJo-czXUM&feature=related[/media]

http://unhypnotize.c...oestenberg.html

Ummm no sound?