Do people believe in religion because they...

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

You can deny having one all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you do have one. The reality of a soul is not nor should it be a threat to your core beliefs.

I do understand why people want proof. It boils down to finding the ones who are really ready for it. Have you ever heard the song by Soft Cell called "Entertain Me"? Think about it: who wants to change the equilibrium or balance of his or her life? Most people just want to vege and be proded. Unless something extreme happens, a person usually doesn't want to be bothered. On the other hand, this particular thread attracted people who are eager and willing to change.

[Imaginarynumber1]

I don't think there is any 100% way to define a soul...in the dictionary it has couple different meanings, so I think it's just one of those things that is up to the individual to decide what they want to believe it is. I don't know that any which way either you view it as a spiritual thing or part of your conscience or whatever, is going to be right or wrong as long as you have a beautiful one;) Now what bar are we going to number1??? Hehe!!

We ended up at the same local watering hole that we always do, and while I may not have seen a soul, I certainly ran a foul of a few spirits!

[Imaginarynumber1]

I do understand why people want proof. It boils down to finding the ones who are really ready for it.

That's such spiritualist B.S., man. One does not have to be "ready" for facts or objective reality. Things either exist or they do not, independent of belief or ones desire for something to be true.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

That's such spiritualist B.S., man. One does not have to be "ready" for facts or objective reality. Things either exist or they do not, independent of belief or ones desire for something to be true.

It's B.S. according to you. I'm not the one who's looking for a soul because I've already seen one, two, three -- you get the idea. Since you haven't seen one, there must be something wrong with your current pattern; therefore, you have to change. It's just the way things are. You can either fight it, or find a way to get what you want. Fighting it is definitely not it. Saints and mystics have sacrificed their lives to get a glimpse of the otherworldly wonder. What makes you so special? Like I said, most people don't really want to rock their world, their balance, their equilibrium...unless extreme situations happen to them. Alas, you're not going to find an ephemeral-like soul on the internet. On the other hand, there are monetarily free ashrams to start your journey. B.S.? Be Steadfast (in your goal).

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Speaking of Soft Cell... Some of the posts remind me of a line in "Chips on my Shoulder": "I'm making a stand while I sit on my ar$e."

[Rlyeh]

Speaking of Soft Cell... Some of the posts remind me of a line in "Chips on my Shoulder": "I'm making a stand while I sit on my ar$e."

Blowing hot air while pretending you have something of substance, isn't much better.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Blowing hot air while pretending you have something of substance, isn't much better.

Nah, that's your upbringing speaking out. I merely pushed a button. And certainly, I don't pretend. Substance? Go beyond it. Rock your boat. I'm not here to appease your peace of mind. Peace of "mind" is another word for equilibrium. Edited July 13, 2012 by braveone2u

[Rlyeh]

Nah, that's your upbringing speaking out. I merely pushed a button. And certainly, I don't pretend. Substance? Go beyond it. Rock your boat. I'm not here to appease your peace of mind. Peace of "mind" is another word for equilibrium.

It's just excuses with you isn't it? Maybe you aren't pretending and you are that delusional you think you have something.

The only time you rock boats is when you fall out of them due to your own incompetence.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

It's just excuses with you isn't it? Maybe you aren't pretending and you are that delusional you think you have something.

The only time you rock boats is when you fall out of them due to your own incompetence.

Just as I thought -- empty words.

[Rlyeh]

Just as I thought -- empty words.

You don't read the crap you post then do you. lol

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

You don't read the crap you post then do you. lol

Crap? That's your opinion. As a conduit of the "flow," I share that deepest side of my life to world, as honestly and bravely as possible. I do answer to that "flow," after all. I follow where it takes me, regardless of the consequences. The story of my life is my only testiment.

[Rlyeh]

Crap? That's your opinion. As a conduit of the "flow," I share that deepest side of my life to world, as honestly and bravely as possible. I do answer to that "flow," after all. I follow where it takes me, regardless of the consequences. The story of my life is my only testiment.

What exactly are you sharing?

Baseless assertions? False promises? The blame of others when you fail to deliver?

Oh yeah, that's real deep.

I'll be honest too. You have a story alright, one of failure.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Rlyeh

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

What exactly are you sharing?

Baseless assertions? False promises? The blame of others when you fail to deliver?

Oh yeah, that's real deep.

I'll be honest too. You have a story alright, one of failure.

If it were a failure, I wouldn't be here sharing my life with enthusiasm and amusement. For those who know my life: on the surface, materially speaking, it's quite a devastation...but it gave me a new direction and deeper sense of gratitude. As far as false promises...one has to give them time to reveal themselves. Again, one's destiny is a major factor to consider. Another is going beyond one's equilibrium. I accepted the offer to be a conduit, partly because this lineage emphasizes results...spiritual results...of the spirit.

Change has its price. One cannot go around it, but one has to do the "work" -- spiritual work. Nah, my story will never be a failure for many reasons, not just spiritual reasons.

[failturner25]

I'm sorry braveone2u, but I can not take you seriously anymore until you answer the question one of the admins asked you a while ago.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Please

I'm sorry braveone2u, but I can not take you seriously anymore until you answer the question one of the admins asked you a while ago.

Please check your inbox. I'm off to bed. It's very late here.

[Rlyeh]

If it were a failure, I wouldn't be here sharing my life with enthusiasm and amusement. For those who know my life: on the surface, materially speaking, it's quite a devastation...but it gave me a new direction and deeper sense of gratitude. As far as false promises...one has to give them time to reveal themselves. Again, one's destiny is a major factor to consider. Another is going beyond one's equilibrium. I accepted the offer to be a conduit, partly because this lineage emphasizes results...spiritual results...of the spirit.

Change has its price. One cannot go around it, but one has to do the "work" -- spiritual work. Nah, my story will never be a failure for many reasons, not just spiritual reasons.

How noble of you.

I really wonder if you do attempt to communicate with others, or you're simply praising yourself up.

Many will agree you've failed to deliver, but hey it's their fault isn't it?

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

How noble of you.

I really wonder if you do attempt to communicate with others, or you're simply praising yourself up.

Many will agree you've failed to deliver, but hey it's their fault isn't it?

You have to keep in mind that I'm merely a servant of the "flow." I'm not the "flow." My service, however, is free, and I certainly do overtime, in case you haven't noticed. LOL

Whether you think I'm a failure or not, I really don't care. It's really beyond my control.

Good night...or I should say, good morning.

[Mr Right Wing]

can't comprehend science/logic/reality, or want an easy explanation for everything?

Let's get serious.

Religion, the paranormal etc. are very convenient explanations for confusing things in our lives.

The ability to create illogical and unsupported explanations is one that we all posses. Any person can dream up their own fantastic solutions to things that may be otherwise explained by more logical means.

The only things that have ever been proven have been through scientific means. And once they're proven they don't seem as special anymore to the people who believed otherwise.

So:

Is it taking the easy way out by believing in religion or otherwise?

Does it make life easier neglecting evidence and blindly following unsubstantiated beliefs?

Are people just not willing to accept that the truths in science etc. are hard to understand and that we will never understand everything?

I'm willing to accept that there may be more to life, and if so I'll shake God (that's any God, belief system, or otherwise) by the hand at heavens gate, congratulate him on his ongoing grand deception, and he'll accept me for who I am because he will appreciate I've lived logically and had no evidence to support his existence.

It's actually pretty amazing to consider how insignificant we are in relation to everything that we know exists. And everything that we know, our knowledge of the extent of the universe, could be worth but a grain of sand in relation to what's really out there.

There are answers for everything. But we will never find them all.

Can you appreciate that everything could be possibly explained logically?

Some people are negative when it comes to there being a God but some are positive. This determines if they are open to religion or not.

As for science it has been pointed out in many topics on this forum, in science and in philosophy that materialism is flawed. Human beings are not robots or machines as those who are still living in a Newtonian clockwork reality believe.

Western society is negative towards religion, doesnt teach the people the truth and only gives them materialism so you keep being a consumer.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Mr Walker]

Western society is negative towards religion, doesnt teach the people the truth and only gives them materialism so you keep being a consumer.

I am absolutely a non believer in conspiracy theories. The real world simply doesnt work like that for a number of good reasons Nonetheless you have hit on a very good point here.

As many wise humans have pointed out it is very difficult to live a materialist life and be spiritually fulfilled. One can certainly have material "comforts" including good medicine hot showers etc but one needs to see those things as fulfilling our physical requirements for health and happiness notends in them selves. We as humans also have spiritual requirements for happiness.Unfortunately the pursuit of materialism tends to mean we never find those spiritual requirements. Its not really a conspiracy, just ignorance and laziness by most people creating serious imbalances in their life.

Thus we have practical measurable indicators like depression alienation and suicide higher now than they have ever been in western societies, while we are materially richer than we have ever been. The amazing thing is that while the situation is so obvious and measurable, so few people appear to notice it. Now that suicide is the highest cause of death in australian males under 40, and all australians under about 30, suddenly some people are begining to take notice

But these sort of indicators have been edging up for decades.

[Arbenol]

I get that, and I'm not taking that away at all. Humanists often tell Christians and other religious people that they have to provide objective facts about God before they claim that He is true. However, when a Christian asks how the humanist finds life has any meaning, he may say, "It's all personal. It's all relative." By what grounds does he make statements like that? That brings me back to my original argument.

I suppose we would need to agree on how we define "meaning". For me, it's about being the best father I can be (and beating myself up when I get it wrong), trying to be a better husband, to be a productive member of my community and society in general. To do no harm and to try my best to enjoy the ride. These things give my life purpose and meaning. And I'll bet yours isn't too different. Where we differ fundamentally is that I don't believe there is anything other than material reality, no need for metaphysical considerations.

In that way I don't think anyone can claim that meaning is entirely personal and relative. We're all generally sailing our ships in the same direction - we just disagree about our port of origin.

I wasn't trying to insult what is important to you. I'm trying to speak objectively to humanists so that they can see how exactly they treat religious people often. It really is a double standard. They tell us to prove God's existence, regardless of the relevance of our arguments, yet they speak objectively about their beliefs without even blushing.

I understand what you're saying here. From your profile quote it seems you've had some bad experiences from declaring your faith to others - or at least been made aware of others' antipathy toward it. I tend not to mind that too much and accept that it's going to happen on internet boards. I try (and often fail) to respect other people even if I can't respect the belief. It's tricky sometimes.

Not necessarily. It could go the other way around and mean that God's personality is imprinted on us all because we are made in His likeness.

That's very true. It could. However, if there is a plausible natural explanation I'm more likely to favour that.

I hear your arguments. I can understand how you find my question strange. I guess I don't agree totally. People die. Everything dies. That means that, while we are alive, we are interpreting everything happening to us. If that is what life having meaning is about, then doesn't the meaning of life die with us? And when the universe grows cold or resets, doesn't that make life a vanity?

Again, I'm not saying that I believe life is a vanity. I think it is very very important. I believe we are valuable, even to the least of us. And that is why I cannot buy the humanist argument. I am deeply concerned about the objective truths, things beyond our relative beliefs. Humanists are ridiculing Christians left and right on this forum because they can't provide objective information about God, and the meaning of life for that matter. People are insulting and harming each other and their reputations over this conflict. How does that point to morality?

And if we find ourselves alone, does that mean that our lives are meaningless then? We are getting to a point where, no matter how close people are, they are still feeling alone. Suicide shooting up through the roof. And if we are all so cooperative, why is it that a few individuals in the government are more and more taking over caretaker roles?

I want to know if life has purpose even when I'm at most lonely state. That is what I mean by objective. If we just talk about relative issues, then that doesn't properly address the social issues that we originally argue about.

I'm not sure I understand you properly here. You've spoken a few times about double standards, and said "And yet they don't ask for objective evidence about their own relative beliefs." I don't know what you mean by relative beliefs.

I don't need everlasting life to have sound moral principles. It isn't about that to me. At all. That is more like Tertullian's legalistic theology. I follow Iranaeus' liberation theology more.

I'm interested to learn more about this. Any reading you'd recommend?

[Karlis]

~~~ ... I'm not the one who's looking for a soul because I've already seen one, two, three ...

braveone2u, you have died, your body began to decay, and yet you lived again. Now you say you have "seen" three souls.

At the risk of sounding too demanding, may I please ask you to clearly explain the above to UM readers in your next few posts.

Of course, you don't have to be more explicit if you choose not to reveal your understanding in clearer language. That said, moderators also reserve the right to terminate topics when required.

Karlis -- mod team member

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

braveone2u, you have died, your body began to decay, and yet you lived again. Now you say you have "seen" three souls.

At the risk of sounding too demanding, may I please ask you to clearly explain the above to UM readers in your next few posts.

Of course, you don't have to be more explicit if you choose not to reveal your understanding in clearer language. That said, moderators also reserve the right to terminate topics when required.

Karlis -- mod team member

CHECK YOUR INBOX...

[AwakenAscension]

LOL

Edited November 13, 2012 by AwakenAscension