Hypothetical: Jesus DNA Question/Discussion

[Stonecoldvampzy]

Let us assume for a moment Jesus is indeed the son of god and that somehow we would find indisputable DNA of him. Now if we tested the DNA would there be father DNA present even though he was conceived without sex as written in the bible? Can there even be human life without father and mother DNA?

What would the concequences of this be for beleivers and non-beleivers?

Keep in mind this is just hypothetical to bring on a debate. I in no way state that the bible is true, neither do I say it is absolutly not true.

[behaviour???]

Well, Scientifically speaking, the entire process would be impossible as a zygote cannot be produced without sexual interaction or bringing together the sperm of a farther and ovum of a mother (this is under the arguement that Jesus infact is a human because new progeny can be produced without fertilisation in organisms such as turkeys and is commonly called parthenogenesis).

As for the non believers part, such a question dont arise,as most atheists would strongly vouch that sceicne as in this case, is indisputable. As for the believers, this is yet another question they have to answer, keeping in mind, the hypothetical angle of the question

Just a small add here, well anyway there should be 46 chromosomes, but since Jesus doesnt have a biological father, the entire set must be that of Mother Mary (or Jesus wouldnt be a human, he would be something else ) and I just dont think that we ever have a human without a father and mother DNA

[dlonewolf85]

Can there even be human life without father and mother DNA?

I believe I have read that some plants, invertebrates and even some reptiles can reproduce (or form an embryo) without needing an external source (i.e. pollen or sperm) for the fertilization of the egg cell. The offspring carries the exact same genetic material as that of the mother, which would imply that the offspring is a genetic clone or copy of the parent. Therefore, the said offspring is essentially of the female gender, being a clone of its mother. This phenomenon is called parthenogenesis, and is natural in some species.

Parthenogenesis has been used to produce human stem cells under laboratory conditions. However, human cloning is viewed as unethical by many. Sticking to the topic, it is clear that the people back then didn't have the necessary tools to make human clones, nor Jesus was a rare case asexual human reproduction. Also, I feel every birth is a miracle, virgin-born or not. Any opinion about a person should be based on how he chooses to live his life, not how and under what conditions he is born. If Jesus Christ was an actual figure, I think it's incredible that he made such a mark on human history. Any real person who is still discussed and debated for his teachings, philosophy and his social service, political and spiritual views, even after 2000 years of his expiration, is way more amazing than a make-belief, divine superhuman entity. I believe one most of the worst flaws of religion is that it tries to make greatness unattainable to mere mortals. If we come to respect Jesus Christ as a good person from ancient history, a human person nevertheless, then we can relate to his life and his teachings. In my humble opinion, it gets harder for people to relate to a character like Superman. Therefore it's not surprising that so many people turn to atheism in today's world.

[Copen]

Yes, Jesus had Virgin Mary's DNA, which includes her blood type. Since the Blessed Virgin Mary was human and born of humans, her blood was not spotless. Her blood line goes all the way back to Adam. Therefore, so did Jesus'. It is often said Jesus didn't inherit mankind's sin nature because He had no earthly father; but it is not the blood that sins. It is the flesh. And Jesus was definitely flesh. He inherited His flesh from Mary.

God created man in His image. But when Jesus was created in the Virgin Mary's womb, Jesus was created in the "EXPRESS image" of God. He had a little something more going for Him than the rest of us and that kept Him from sinning.

But if Jesus was just human and that was all He was, then He was a raving lunatic. For He said He was God. And that He and the Heavenly Father were one. And that He came to save His people from their sins.

He fulfilled too many prophecies hundreds of years prior to His coming to be anything but God, our sacrifical Lamb, and heavenly High Priest mediator.

God bless us all is my prayer

Edited June 15, 2012 by Copen

[karmakazi]

Let us assume for a moment Jesus is indeed the son of god and that somehow we would find indisputable DNA of him. Now if we tested the DNA would there be father DNA present even though he was conceived without sex as written in the bible? Can there even be human life without father and mother DNA?

What would the concequences of this be for beleivers and non-beleivers?

Keep in mind this is just hypothetical to bring on a debate. I in no way state that the bible is true, neither do I say it is absolutly not true.

There would have to be father DNA or Jesus would have been female. Women only carry X chromosomes and men carry both X & Y, in order for Jesus to have received a Y chromosome to be male, either DNA was implanted by "magical" means, or sex was had.

OR

Mary could have been an XXY. It does happen... there are also occasionally women who are female in every way except they happen to have a Y Chromosome. The same could have been true for Jesus, he could have been an XX but presented as male. Of course these are genetic oddities and do not happen often.....

But neither does a virgin birth

I think Jesus existed and was enlightened (as was Buddah) but there was no virgin birth... and I'm on the fence as to whether there was actually a crucifixion & resurrection. What he told us - the logos - the word of God - the teachings - is what was meant to save us, not our belief in fantastical stories. In other words, I don't think he died to wash away anyone's sins... I think he lived to show us what he saw, what could save us.

Edited June 15, 2012 by karmakazi

[Mr Walker]

Let us assume for a moment Jesus is indeed the son of god and that somehow we would find indisputable DNA of him. Now if we tested the DNA would there be father DNA present even though he was conceived without sex as written in the bible? Can there even be human life without father and mother DNA?

What would the concequences of this be for beleivers and non-beleivers?

Keep in mind this is just hypothetical to bring on a debate. I in no way state that the bible is true, neither do I say it is absolutly not true.

IMO in this hypothetical, you would find mary's dna, and god's dna in the body of christ. Just what god's dna would look like or how it could be recognised, I dont have the science to know. But, with a being such as christ, there would be material / physical elements, which allowed him to do the things he did, eg walk on water, raise the dead, transmute substances etc.

Given adequate science we would be able to recognise these things, and maybe even replicate them. This presuposses, for the purpose of the thread, that christ was really the son of god, conceived of the holy spirit, and born of woman, and not just a mortal teacher.

One other possibilty occured to me. Ive seen the holy spirit '"create" and/ or transmute matter from energy. A literal reading of the conception could be that the holy spirit created a sperm just as it created loaves and fishes to feed a multitude. That sperm, real and viable, could have been perfectly human in form, just as the created loaves and fishes were perfectly normal and indistiguishable from the original templates provided by the multitude, which were then replicated.

Human science is much less than 100 years away from being able to "create" and transmit things like food, using only energy, raw materials, and an electronic template to do so.

It would be an easy bit of technology for any entity we would see as a god, to create a viable sperm and insert it into a woman via "transmat beam." Come to think of it, they might not even have to create such a sperm, simply "beam one in"

Edited June 16, 2012 by Mr Walker

[behaviour???]

you would find mary's dna, and god's dna in the body of christ

I thought the Holy Spirit doesnt have a DNA?

Ive seen the holy spirit '"create" and/ or transmute matter from energy

Seen?

[Rlyeh]

It's simple, DNA didn't exist back then.

[Mr Walker]

I thought the Holy Spirit doesnt have a DNA?

Seen?

Who says?

Yes, seen.

The holy spirit is a life force, or energy form. If it is capable of impregnating a human woman, then quite possibly it has its own DNA. On the other hand, I mentioned a couple of other possibilities. The holy spirit could be the energy form which delivers either gods dna or an artificially created human dna to mary's egg. The holy spirit certainly has the physical power/energy to enable this, as it can transmute matter and transform matter to energy and vice versa. It moves through solid objects as if thety were not present.

In the instances Iive seen, The power of the holy spirit has manifested as; incandescent light, very audible external sound including human voice, electical energy, the equivalent heat to a strong medical heat lamp, and in the form of a very handsom and well dressed young man. Each "appeared" without any visible external source and then "disappeared" once its function had been served. All of these occurences were witnessed by at least one and in some case multiple, independent and non religious observers. There are numerous other instances where the holy spirit has manifested to me in concrete form but as there are no independent witnesses to verify them, I do not count these as examples, even though on some occasions the purpose was to save my life and this was achieved. I call this the holy spirit but that is just a name/ it is the physical energy form of an entity i call god although that is also just a name. This entity is sapient, powerful, and takes a personal interest in my education, protection, and empowerment.Iits expression of power comes via the holy spirit, but its intent is from the being itself.

Sounds wacky?

I've lived with it for over 40 years now. At times things get complicated, but it is a very interesting and empowering way to live. I believe it is how every human is meant to live, nurtured and protected/empowered in a living physical relationship with a living physical god, but naturally I am prejudiced by my personal experiences..

[behaviour???]

The holy spirit is a life force, or energy form. If it is capable of impregnating a human woman, then quite possibly it has its own DNA. On the other hand, I mentioned a couple of other possibilities. The holy spirit could be the energy form which delivers either gods dna or an artificially created human dna to mary's egg. The holy spirit certainly has the physical power/energy to enable this, as it can transmute matter and transform matter to energy and vice versa. It moves through solid objects as if thety were not present.

In the instances Iive seen, The power of the holy spirit has manifested as; incandescent light, very audible external sound including human voice, electical energy, the equivalent heat to a strong medical heat lamp, and in the form of a very handsom and well dressed young man. Each "appeared" without any visible external source and then "disappeared" once its function had been served. All of these occurences were witnessed by at least one and in some case multiple, independent and non religious observers. There are numerous other instances where the holy spirit has manifested to me in concrete form but as there are no independent witnesses to verify them, I do not count these as examples, even though on some occasions the purpose was to save my life and this was achieved. I call this the holy spirit but that is just a name/ it is the physical energy form of an entity i call god although that is also just a name. This entity is sapient, powerful, and takes a personal interest in my education, protection, and empowerment.Iits expression of power comes via the holy spirit, but its intent is from the being itself.

Ignoring the hypothetical view of the question that has been raised, perhaps do you understand that it is logically impossible to deliver the GOD's DNA through holy spirit, taking into account, the scientific notion of things unless God himself has a physical manifestation?

To me, I belive that the biblical version of Holy Spirit that made Mother Mary pregnant, was an attempt to prevent people from concluding that Joseph was the real God and to make sure that people understand that God (if such an entity exists) is above all of the humankind and its capabilities.

[Mr Walker]

Ignoring the hypothetical view of the question that has been raised, perhaps do you understand that it is logically impossible to deliver the GOD's DNA through holy spirit, taking into account, the scientific notion of things unless God himself has a physical manifestation?

To me, I belive that the biblical version of Holy Spirit that made Mother Mary pregnant, was an attempt to prevent people from concluding that Joseph was the real God and to make sure that people understand that God (if such an entity exists) is above all of the humankind and its capabilities.

Oh, I understand this pov.It is incorrect being one of many constructs of god not grounded in reality and creating a god which in real life is either impossible or pointless. God IS real physical sapient and powerful.

A transmat beam can deliver solid objects from one place to another by transmission. So far, only photons have been successfully transmitted, but solid matter is only a few years away from the capacity of scientists to transmit from one place to another. So, be it gods dna or an artificaily created dna , the delivery is the easiest part of the process to accomplish.

[Nik Xues]

your dna test is pointless without mary's dna. and staying hypothetical here Jesus' dna would be more akin to a twins rather than mother and child as id presume J would be an altered clone. itd be the same thing with adam and eves dna test.

[Nik Xues]

Ignoring the hypothetical view of the question that has been raised, perhaps do you understand that it is logically impossible to deliver the GOD's DNA through holy spirit, taking into account, the scientific notion of things unless God himself has a physical manifestation?

To me, I belive that the biblical version of Holy Spirit that made Mother Mary pregnant, was an attempt to prevent people from concluding that Joseph was the real God and to make sure that people understand that God (if such an entity exists) is above all of the humankind and its capabilities.

yes cuz the creator of matter cant snap his fingers for insta preggers

[behaviour???]

Oh, I understand this pov.It is incorrect being one of many constructs of god not grounded in reality and creating a god which in real life is either impossible or pointless. God IS real physical sapient and powerful.

A transmat beam can deliver solid objects from one place to another by transmission. So far, only photons have been successfully transmitted, but solid matter is only a few years away from the capacity of scientists to transmit from one place to another. So, be it gods dna or an artificaily created dna , the delivery is the easiest part of the process to accomplish.

Do you think delivering DNA to biologically active cell to effect fertilisation as scientist did for photons are the easiest part of the process? Life is a delicate subject, and its totally impossible to play around with something as imporatnt as the genetic material itself. To me, believeing in the possibility of the Holy Spirit transmuting into DNA seems to be far too away from reality (even though its hypothetical). Given, if the DNA was delivered at all, what signature do you think it would cary? Human's? If so, what would be difference between whom we call as God and us, humans for that matter?

yes cuz the creator of matter cant snap his fingers for insta preggers

Umm? What exactly do you mean?

[Mr Walker]

Do you think delivering DNA to biologically active cell to effect fertilisation as scientist did for photons are the easiest part of the process? Life is a delicate subject, and its totally impossible to play around with something as imporatnt as the genetic material itself. To me, believeing in the possibility of the Holy Spirit transmuting into DNA seems to be far too away from reality (even though its hypothetical). Given, if the DNA was delivered at all, what signature do you think it would cary? Human's? If so, what would be difference between whom we call as God and us, humans for that matter?

Yes the delivery is easier than the creationof the original sperm. We will be able to deliver a sperm via transmat beam to a womans uterus within 100 years, but the abilty to create a viable human (or other) sperm from scratch is beyond that time frame. We are begining to play around with human genetics now. There is no inherent harm in that. We can do great good and eliminate many illnesses and genetic diseases. Like all science it is the ethical and moral purpose which mus tbe considered and the consequences for creation and destruction, not the act itself. No act is INHERENTLY wrong or immoral or unethical. In this scenario the dna would carry the characteristics god designed for it Perhaps part human and part something more than human That would account for the physical capabilities of christ as written about. For example an enhancement of the holy spirit within the dna . God is not male or at least not exclusively so. He is not even human in form or species. And so not much, if any, of gods dna (he may not even have the equivalent to dna) might be placed in the sperm; but genetic manipulation and enhancement to shape the nature of christ the man? Most certainly and even probable. (Within the scenario we have of conception via the holy spirit and with god as the physical father of christ.)

God already said in the bible that, given immortality, we will become as god(s) So i think, in biblical context, we are in many ways very similar to god, albeit very different in other ways.