Phoenix - Flares Debunked

[quillius 1,925]

The hard-core believers usually take refuge in in this explanation, its their "get out of jail free card".

The material that would be convincing proof has been collected and secreted away by the US government. While endlessly appealing, this is an argument from ignorance (tantamount to saying "we cant show you good evidence because we havent got it"), and perforce implies that every government in the world has efficiently squirreled away all alien artifacts. Unless, of course, the extraterrestrials only visit the US, where retrieval of material that falls to Earth is supposedly a perfected art form.

I suppose what constitutes convincing proof is debatable, dont you think?

[AbyssWalker 1,598]

Hey, maybe they were just trying to light up the areas where UFOs were being reported. It's possible. Or maybe it was all a big diversion, just blow a few whistles and show the masses a bright, shiny object and say "look over here, look this way. Good boy".

Where does it end?

Maybe the sky itself was fake and they projected a hologram that night to 'cover' over the 'real' UFO and then someone accidentally clicked the "flares in formation to fool the gullible people" button on the projector?

[TheMcGuffin 68]

Where does it end?

That's actually a very good question, and I wish I had an equally good answer for you, but I don't.

[quillius 1,925]

absolute rubbish, if they are so good at keeping secrets explain incidents like abu ghraib that was well kept wasn't it? to quote Dave Mustaine 'military intelligence two words combined that cant make sense' the fact is large numbers of people cannot and will not keep secrets for long its human nature

possible he doesnt wishh to prove to someone that has such a biased position to begin with....opening with 'absolute rubbish' wasnt the way to progress the conversation. IMO

Although I am curious about a couple of things, do you think 'abu gharib' proves that other secrets have not and are not kept? if so I believe logical fallacy comes into play.

secondly, in regards to chosen quote by Dave Mustain, do you really think the military is not intelligent?

Edited June 20, 2012 by quillius

[quillius 1,925]

Where does it end?

Maybe the sky itself was fake and they projected a hologram that night to 'cover' over the 'real' UFO and then someone accidentally clicked the "flares in formation to fool the gullible people" button on the projector?

dont think this works as I am sure they would have stuck with clicking the 'swamp gas' or 'venus' button instead as they are proven to work even when it is ludicrous to suggest the either or.

[cenobite 619]

If you don't agree that the authorities want the phenomena covered up then watch this:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LQEL6Vzr3YI[/media]

again another youtube clip - this IS NOT EVIDENCE, alledged photo's that convieniently disappeared and the source of the story? a radio reporter, well it must be true reporters never make anything up do they! and this the same wytheville that since 1985 has a hot air balloon festival! coincedence surely not must be aliens eh. If tonight i phoned in to a local radio show and said i had seen a ufo over my area, i am certain that other people would soon be phoning in claiming to have seen the same, if i sent in a grainy photo of a light in the sky to my local paper the same thing would happen, again if i posted a video on youtube of lights in the sky, bang, the same would happen and people like you would be posting on forums like this swearing it was aliens. The point im trying to make is a youtube clip proves nothing

[Hazzard 1,518]

I suppose what constitutes convincing proof is debatable, dont you think?

That goes without sayin, my friend. As we keep seeing here some people need nothing more than a fantastic story from eye witnesses. To me that is not even close to credible evidence.

I need more. A lot more.

[quillius 1,925]

That goes without sayin, my friend. As we keep seeing here some people need nothing more than a fantastic story from eye witnesses. To me that is not even close to credible evidence.

I need more. A lot more.

Credible evidence does not need to be in existance for 'convincing proof' to have been seen, enough so that not too much if anything need be kept under lock and key, plus many people need not be involved...possibly.

[Hazzard 1,518]

absolute rubbish, if they are so good at keeping secrets explain incidents like abu ghraib that was well kept wasn't it? to quote Dave Mustaine 'military intelligence two words combined that cant make sense' the fact is large numbers of people cannot and will not keep secrets for long its human nature

I agree. The government couldnt even keep a semen-stained blue dress a secret, how in the hell can anyone truly believe they have kept this from the world for over 60 years?!

Edited June 20, 2012 by Hazzard

[cenobite 619]

possible he doesnt wishh to prove to someone that has such a biased position to begin with....opening with 'absolute rubbish' wasnt the way to progress the conversation.

Although I am curious about a couple of things, do you think 'abu gharib' proves that other secrets have not and are not kept? if so I believe logical fallacy comes into play.

secondly, in regards to chosen quote by Dave Mustain, do you really think the military is not intelligent?

again absolute rubbish,and i'll start a post any way i choose thanks, abu ghraib shows that secrets do not remain secrets due to the nature of humans, of course secrets are kept, but not forever and such a huge secret like the existence of aliens would in my opinion be impossible to keep, for a start why do people assume that aliens would contact the governments?

and your quote 'possible he doesnt wishh to prove to someone that has such a biased opinion to begin with (sic)' that is just typical of the believers in the fantastic, you cant prove it so you provide a pithy comeback.

and in answer to your question no i do not believe the military is intelligent, neither is government or any other huge orgainization

[TheMcGuffin 68]

again absolute rubbish,and i'll start a post any way i choose thanks, abu ghraib shows that secrets do not remain secrets due to the nature of humans, of course secrets are kept, but not forever and such a huge secret like the existence of aliens would in my opinion be impossible to keep, for a start why do people assume that aliens would contact the governments?

and your quote 'possible he doesnt wishh to prove to someone that has such a biased opinion to begin with (sic)' that is just typical of the believers in the fantastic, you cant prove it so you provide a pithy comeback.

and in answer to your question no i do not believe the military is intelligent, neither is government or any other huge orgainization

Well that settles it then.

[Vlad the Mighty 33,476]

Have you ever asked yourself why mankind needs all that invasive medical technology? Could it be that modern life is extremely destructive on the human complex and that the medical profession is just repairing the damage that the culture does?

So things were better in the old days? When maybe 7 out of 10 children died before they were 5, and there was a good chance that the mother would too, and if you reached 60, that was a good innings?

[TheMcGuffin 68]

dont think this works as I am sure they would have stuck with clicking the 'swamp gas' or 'venus' button instead as they are proven to work even when it is ludicrous to suggest the either or.

They clicked those buttons one too many times, though, and finally made themselves look ridiculous by the 1960s.

[cenobite 619]

Well that settles it then.

and again sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

and another pithy comment to boot!

top of the class 'conspiracy believers 101'

[TheMcGuffin 68]

and again sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

and another pithy comment to boot!

top of the class 'conspiracy believers 101'

I'm not being sarcastic. You're 100% right and I won't argue with you at all.

[AbyssWalker 1,598]

So things were better in the old days? When maybe 7 out of 10 children died before they were 5, and there was a good chance that the mother would too, and if you reached 60, that was a good innings?

You know what, just forget it. Someday he'll learn how much things are better now, he's probably healthy now, but there may come a time that changes and he needs all the 'invasive medical technology'. I bet he won't rely on 300 BC medicine.

[quillius 1,925]

again absolute rubbish,and i'll start a post any way i choose thanks, abu ghraib shows that secrets do not remain secrets due to the nature of humans, of course secrets are kept, but not forever and such a huge secret like the existence of aliens would in my opinion be impossible to keep, for a start why do people assume that aliens would contact the governments?

and your quote 'possible he doesnt wishh to prove to someone that has such a biased opinion to begin with (sic)' that is just typical of the believers in the fantastic, you cant prove it so you provide a pithy comeback.

and in answer to your question no i do not believe the military is intelligent, neither is government or any other huge orgainization

then I am sure you will make for some interesting conversation....

why do people assume aliens contacted the governement? what has this got to do with anything???? The government is better equipped to find these things out, suggesting that proving (although impossible to do) that aliens could not have contacted the government then this means that the Government must have been contacted......I know Lions exist.......doesnt mean a Lion would have had to phone me up and introduce himself.

AS for the comeback...it wasnt really a comeback more advice for you...as I know McG has been through quite a bit on this sit and there are certain walls he is seemiingly fed up of banging his head against...but hey what do I know...Im am just a fantastical believer.

Military and Governments are stupid....ok thanks for confirming your opinion there.

[zoser 1,701]

So things were better in the old days? When maybe 7 out of 10 children died before they were 5, and there was a good chance that the mother would too, and if you reached 60, that was a good innings?

Depends on how far back you wish to go with your comparison. Evidence does exist to the effect that men used to live longer than they do today if you care to search for the evidence.

[AbyssWalker 1,598]

then I am sure you will make for some interesting conversation....

why do people assume aliens contacted the governement? what has this got to do with anything???? The government is better equipped to find these things out, suggesting that proving (although impossible to do) that aliens could not have contacted the government then this means that the Government must have been contacted......I know Lions exist.......doesnt mean a Lion would have had to phone me up and introduce himself.

Lions and ET? how does that compute?

I've seen crystal clear images and videos of Lions, I've seen a lion cub, a real one. It proves that they really do exist. Besides you can always goto a Zoo and see one, at will.

I haven't seen ET visiting earth, the UFOs I've seen in the videos are not conclusive. So Lions and ET? not the best choice I think...

[quillius 1,925]

Lions and ET? how does that compute?

I've seen crystal clear images and videos of Lions, I've seen a lion cub, a real one. It proves that they really do exist. Besides you can always goto a Zoo and see one, at will.

I haven't seen ET visiting earth, the UFOs I've seen in the videos are not conclusive. So Lions and ET? not the best choice I think...

and with this you think the Governments have seen no more than you?

[cenobite 619]

Hey surely with all this alien technonlogy the governments and military are keeping from us, there must be some sort of non invasive fix all medical device! after all the aliens have mastered gravity and faster than light travel to come here and shoot the 5hit with the US government! but then i guess why would anyone want to make all that money from such a device, its better to take all that time and millions developing pills and potions eh?

[AbyssWalker 1,598]

and with this you think the Governments have seen no more than you?

Does that mean aliens are visiting earth then?

[quillius 1,925]

Does that mean aliens are visiting earth then?

certainly not..it does however, address your starting point as to why Governments have been contacted.

[TheMcGuffin 68]

AS for the comeback...it wasnt really a comeback more advice for you...as I know McG has been through quite a bit on this sit and there are certain walls he is seemiingly fed up of banging his head against...but hey what do I know...Im am just a fantastical believer.

Military and Governments are stupid....ok thanks for confirming your opinion there.

I think the best way to respond to a guy who knows what he knows is to agree with him and move on. Let him be right. The interesting thing about UFOs is that it hasn't been 100% covered up, but that there has always been a certain (limited) disclosure of information, or at least a toleration of limited disclosure.

I mentioned the case of Robert Jacobs on an earlier thread, which I know for a fact was true. That's one that I am 100% sure about because I saw the evidence and heard the story long before Jacobs went public. Even though he was pressured in some ways concerning his civilian job, his story has never been denied. It can't be, in fact, because there are plenty of people who know it's the truth.

I can think of some other examples like these, where part of the UFO story has been disclosed, but by no means all of it. I know that too, based on experience.

Edited June 20, 2012 by TheMcGuffin

[AbyssWalker 1,598]

certainly not..it does however, address your starting point as to why Governments have been contacted.

Don't you think it's possible the US government has been trying to contact aliens all along, have better equipment and haven't had any success with it?

Are you not willing to accept that possibility?