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Uri Geller on private island 'UFO hotspot'


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Once again: you may not fall for BS Nr1, but you may fall for BS Nr2, Nr3, etc.

rf_fp.gif

It's funny when logic is used against a skeptic he jokes.

Not much difference as when someone who is more intelligent proves someone else wrong. They resort to jokes etc.

Please explain how what I said even results in a facepalm. I don't even know where i stand on Uri Geller or the Saturn V rocket. I am usually "skeptical" of these things. i'#m looking at the evidence logically though. You are not.

Edited by Coffey
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I recall that episode. Funny as hell :lol: But BBT TV series are so over exaggerated. Its understandable, otherwise wouldn't be interesting to watch.

Nope. You're wrong. Scientists are not more gullible than normal folks - they are normal folks. Trust me.

Don't know about you, but as my boss said "you can't be normal to work in a place like this. You have to be a little... strange." I guess this is OK since my job is mostly data processing... I haven't gone off the deep end yet.

I work in industry. The academics... well. University is a nice, safe place for them :)))

Edited by Captain Zim
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jeeeezus you're desperate..... :)

read it again...

http://www.uri-gelle...r-papers/g6.htm

I don't think you are understanding the enormity of Geller creating a permenent kink in Nitinol.....

I'm desperate? Coming from the person who said Randi was recruited by the intelligence service and his first assignment was Geller!

Then you say you believe that Geller can manipulate the magnetic field, but you have no evidence whatsoever that that is the case. It's just a random belief.

Then you see a video of him using a magnet to move a compass and you claim it's video editing!

I think you are wanting to believe something so much you overlook anything that goes against your beliefs. Willful ignorance.

Now with the nitinol, Yes he has done something clever but your just blindly believing its paranormal. Even the scientists in your link have stated that it's possible to mechanically change the shape.

He can't explain some things but he says that it is possible for anyone to do what Geller did.

  • Q - What happened to the remaining pieces on this occasion?
  • A - They were all locked in a safe for 10 years in sealed envelopes. Upon opening the sealed envelopes and checking the wires, all were found to have reverted back to their original memory configuration. This is typical of "psychic" interaction with liquids, where the effect is temporary. Why with the NITINOL, I don't know.

  • Q - Why do you think that Uri was unable to affect the 1.5mm diameter wire?
  • A - Same material, just a larger diameter. It is harder to mechanically kink the larger wire.

Gardner suggests that you could have received your original wires back after they had been tampered with. This would involve substituting your wires, temporalily, with wires which appeared the same to the naked eye, then switching yours back in. Would it have been necessary for someone to know your encoding system in order to duplicate the razor marks? (I'm assuming that the "Unique cutting marks" on the ends of the wires could only be checked by later comparison with the photographs, hence a switch would not be immediately obvious).

http://www.zem.demon.co.uk/byrdnitinol.htm

Now we have seen Geller not being able to perform any of his tricks when he is unprepared. We've seen him using magnets to move a compass while claiming it's psychic abilities and him bending the spoon on the table as he gets up (below). We've seen all these tricks but you still believe that's it's paranormal.

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Come on now, the guy was in the SS. You want life experience? lol

I was talking about the effect of life experience and intelligence on how gullible somebody may be, what I was hoping for in reply was...

'Maybe there is a link there' or 'No I don't believe there is a link between the life experience and how gullible you are' or something along those lines, not 'Come on now, the guy was in the SS. You want life experience? lol'

But to respond to your reply, being in the SS is no safeguard against being tricked or gullible (how many SS members willingly killed for Hitlers cause? Sounds a little gullible to me). If anything the power linked with this roll could increase your self importance and help you believe you are infallible, for example 'I cannot be tricked, therefore this must be real'. It may give you some experience of life others will never see, but not particularly helpful when it comes to spotting how a 'magician' does his tricks.

Back to my point, being intelligent is no safeguard against being tricked, being gullible or being naive unlike what you have suggested.

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dear psyche......you know that I make my own mind up about things. I am not swayed by the often outlandish claims of debunkers... :P

Bee

Does that mean you are calling yourself a Debunker here? Because look back in the thread, you made the outlandish claim and tried to sway the poster toward this outright liar. And you are continuing to do so. You often say that you want to explore all the possibilities, honestly, that is hard to see here, it really looks like you simply want to champion the underdog and garner some attention. Sorry if that sounds mean, but it's honest. Are you trying to divert the truth here? What accomplishment is that? These are genuine questions.

I mean fair go Bee, how is this supposed to be considered a sane remark?

I'm now thinking that James Randi was probably recruited by the Intelligence Service when he retired and Uri Geller was his

first and most important assignment.

And what do you have to back that claim? A conspiracy their that you just made up? I understand funning and all, but you are trying to appear serious, and I think think that expecting a serious conversation from that accusation is a big ask.

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quite a showman isn't he.....but we only have his word that anyone was fooled by the little matchbox trick....

and he wasn't even talking about Geller in the video.

I posted this a few pages back but it looks like a few people didn't read it....... :)

I wonder if Randi could create a permenent kink in nitinol.....? Bit more impressive than fiddling around with a matchbox....

http://www.uri-gelle...r-papers/g6.htm

quotes....

Geller asked me to hold the wire. I held it tautly between the thumbs and index fingers of both hands, keeping it very straight. Geller put his thumb and index finger over the wire and started to rub back and forth. After about twenty seconds of rubbing the wire, Geller said he felt a lump forming in the wire. When he removed his fingers, the wire had a definite "kink" in it, which looked like this:

I asked that some boiling water be brought in. This particular wire was formed, at the time of manufacture, in a straight configuration, and immersion in boiling water should have caused it to spring back vigorously to that shape. But when I placed it in the water, the wire, instead of snapping back with some force into a straight shape, began to form approximately a right angle. This was an exciting finding. I lit a match and held it over the kink, but still the wire did not straighten out. Uri then left the lab and had no further contact with this nitinol wire.

Later, I had the wire (with the kink in it) x-rayed along its entire length, The analysis showed no discernible difference between the density of the wire at the kinked section and at other locations.

I also had an x-ray crystallographic analysis made of the wire. (Such a study shows the relative crystal sizes of the material in the form of a diffraction pattern.) The crystallographic analysis of the shaft of the wire that Geller had deformed showed nothing unusual in terms of crystalline size and uniformity. However, the crystal sizes in the kinked section appeared to have changed, but not significantly. The direction of change was one of enlargement, rather than one of shrinkage or of increase in density.

Several metallurgists at the Naval Surface Weapons Center who had examined and tested the wire were intent on removing the kink. They put the wire under tension in a vacuum chamber and heated it by passing an electric current through it until the wire glowed. When they removed the wire from the chamber and laid it on a cooling plate, it was, indeed, straight. But as the wire cooled down to room temperature, the kink spontaneously returned. They had no explanation for this occurrence.

Throughout the experiment with Geller, I had held the wire so tight that it was impossible for him to have pinched it between his thumb and forefinger. Besides, the day following the experiment I took another piece of nitinol wire and tried to bend it into as tight a kink as Geller had formed: I used the point of a screwdriver. But it was clearly impossible for me to duplicate Geller's kink without using Bunsen burners and pliers.

Later, I tried still other experiments with nitinol wires, using chemicals, all in the hope of duplicating the Geller deformation. Mercuric chloride was used to see if a nitinol wire could be temporarily "softened" so that a kink might be formed without extreme heat and sizable force. But nitinol proved to be impervious to mercuric chloride as well as to other chemicals I tried.

and

Geller had clearly influenced the alloy nitinol in a most unusual way: it was as if the kinks he produced had actually been manufactured into the wires, even though it had been conclusively determined before any experimentation that the permanent configuration of the wires was that of straight lines. No explanation has been given by nitinol experts, who have been consulted as to how kinks could have been formed without using high temperatures and mechanical stress. Mechanically produced kinks in nitinol leave obvious marks on the surface of the wire. Geller-formed kinks do not.

and

All of the bends that Geller had produced thus far in nitinol wires have been permanent deformations - the wires can be crumpled or twisted into any shape by hand, but on being heated to a temperature of about 210 degrees F. all the wires return to the shape Geller had imposed upon them.

.

.

For Pete's sakes Bee

What is the inherent property of Nitinol which it is famous for?

Byrd writes that at the time of his test with Uri "Nitinol was not generally available to the public." His point is that Uri, who might have known in advance (through mutual friends) of Byrd's interest in nitinol, would have had great difficulty obtaining samples. Not true. The Edmund Scientific Company, which advertised then, as now , in popular magazines, listed a "nitinol kit" for five dollars in its catalogs fro 1971, 1972, and 1973. For an additional dollar you could get a 96-page NASA Nitinol Book that went into details about the alloys properties. samples of nitinol wire were distributed free during those years by the Naval Ordnance Laboratory at their lab exhibits to people who toured the lab and in response to written requests.

Not only that but magicians were familiar with nitinol. In 1972 a New York amateur, Charles Kalish, was mystifying friends with trick he had invented, which was later sold by a London magic store. A spectator selects a digit from one through nine. A paperclip (actually made of nitinol) is placed in an envelope and the envelope burned. Searching the ashes, one finds that the wire has assumed the shape of the chosen numeral.

Byrd has freely admitted in letters to me that at the Isis Center conditions were so uncontrolled that "almost anything" could have happened. Distractions were so great, he wrote, that even "wire swapping" could have occured.

But more importantly:

In his paper, Byrd says that "several metallurgists" at the naval center tried to remove this right-angle kink in the Gellerized wire by putting the wire "under tension in a vacuum chamber" and heating it until it glowed. When the wire cooled, the kink returned. "They had no explanation for this behaviour."

According to the Naval Surface Weapons Center, this test was never made. Indeed, the center was so annoyed by Panati's false assertion that the Isis Center was a government laboratory that they asked their public affairs office to prepare a four-page memorandum (dated July 19, 1976) to send in resonse to serious inquiries. The memorandum stated that the experiments with Uri "were undertaken by Mr. Byrd as a personal interest, on his own time, and at no cost to the government."

On page 4 of his introduction, Panati writes that Geller demonstrated his psi powers "for physical scientist Eldon Byrd at the Naval Surface Weapons Center," and on page 5, "Geller arrived at the Naval Surface Weapons Center in October of 1973." "This is in error," the memorandum states. "Geller has never been on the premises of the Naval Surface Weapons Center." Byrd's chapter had been reviewed by the Naval Ordnance Laboratory only from the standpoint of accuracy about the properties of nitinol and for compliance with military security. The laboratory, says the memo, "assumed no responsibility for the outcome or implications of Mr. Byrd's experiments." Approving the release of Byrd's paper "neither confirmed nor denied the parapsychological aspects" of the paper.

As for Byrd's claim that "several metallurgists" tried to remove the kink in a vacuum chamber, the memo states: "The occurrence of that test could not be confirmed by laboratory records or by metallurgists at the laboratory." Dr. Frederick E. Wang, the navy's top nitinol expert, was the man who Byrd thought had made such a test. Wang cannot remember making it.

LiNK

:no:

Just no Bee, no.

Edited by psyche101
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you'll have to get a scientist to test you.... :)

Considering your information, do you not mean, you only have to tell people you had a scientist test you?

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Braun.... Yes I do think he was smarter than modern scientists as he pushed our technology way further than any modern scientist.

Then I do not agree with you. Modern scientists rely on people like Braun to get where they are today. My signature carries a sentiment to this effect. He might have been more innovative sure, but how do you figure that Braun could be considered smarter than Professor Hawking for one example? I agree for his time, he was quite the forerunner, but in todays world I think he might have some catching up to do. He attended Uni in the 30's, do you not agree that we have made quite some developments since? Braun is responsible for outdoing Braun!

Most scientists nowadays sit in a lab testing the most stupidist things, they are only classed as Scientists because of their education. Huge difference between a lab worker and someone who pushes the human race further.

I am afraid that is patent BS. And incredibly disrespectful. Sounds more like you are talking about Undergrads who have to get a theoretical background to work in their chosen field. Dead set, you come of here as being jealous of those with a higher education than yourself. Braun in my opinion did not push the human race further, he refined rocket technology, the Chinese started the idea back in the 9th Century. Brilliant as he was, he did not invent the rocket.

He was a Nazi, he applied to be a Nazi then in America he lied and said he was drafted, but papers exist to prove otherwise. Brilliant but like so many brilliant people not always a forerunner where common sense might be required. Even the incredibly smart people like Einstein at the end of the day are human.

I never once said anything about slight of hand not existing... I've seen it with my own eyes.

Soyou are then saying the som psychic force is a better explanation than slight of hand for the tricks we have seen? Even though slight of hand can replicate them exactly?

Come on now, the guy was in the SS. You want life experience? lol

How many years did he study as an illusionist? And why would he be conversant in such a flippant field considering his work?

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Oh and as for that Randi guy, I won't even give him a second of my time. He sound slike the biggest A hole on the planet...

From Wikipedia

All he does is make money from challenging and persuing Geller. He's a leach.

Writing a book called "The Truth About Uri Geller" I mean seriously?! lol He's made himself rich from Uri's name.

It more sounds like you do not have a sense of humour. He made that remark in response to a bunch of fans who said they would build a Museum to honor him when he passes. It was funny actually. Do you realise how many time Geller has taken Randi to court, and lost? Dismally?

He did not start ousting charlatans like Uri Geller until he retired. He had already made his mark, and his money not only from illusions, but from many performances, even an appearance on Happy Days as himself. He is 83, he did not investigate the paranormal until this time. If he has made money from that, it is obviously because a great many people appreciate him letting us in on these tricksters.

It seems that you just hate it when the mystery is solved to be frank.

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The plane hit the side of a snow covered mountain, Vesna Vulovic did not free fall, she was in the tail section of the craft, she broke both legs and was paralysed from the waist down and happened to be the only survivor, lucky yes, but unexplainable? No. You just seem to have an exaggerated version of the story, and that is how this paranormal/supernatural guff gets of the ground to begin with.

no not this story .. the story i told .. is if i can remember ... somewhere in south america .. i ll search for it .. .. and i am not exaggerating..
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well said Coffey.......

also...on top of that...

I read somewhere that he was given 2 million dollars to start the James Randi Educational Foundation....and never said who provided the cash.

(think I've got that right...can't find the link at the mo)

And that he paid/pays himself around $200,000 a year. Also he gave employment to his young lover 'Jose Alvarez' from the Foundation, while knowing that 'Alvarez'

was living in the country illegally using a stolen identity.

:hmm:

.

Soooo

Your real problem with Randi is racism, jealousy of his success and homophobia?

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jeeeezus you're desperate..... :)

read it again...

http://www.uri-gelle...r-papers/g6.htm

I don't think you are understanding the enormity of Geller creating a permenent kink in Nitinol.....

Ummm, I beg your pardon??????????

.

I'm now thinking that James Randi was probably recruited by the Intelligence Service when he retired and Uri Geller was his

first and most important assignment.

Who's is desperate to get rid of someone who's lifestyle they do not approve of?

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Please explain how what I said even results in a facepalm. I don't even know where i stand on Uri Geller or the Saturn V rocket. I am usually "skeptical" of these things. i'#m looking at the evidence logically though. You are not.

I honestly fail to see how you could look at the evidence and come to the conclusion that Geller is more than a garden variety charlatan. What do you find convincing about him? Honestly, you have me rather intrigued.

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no not this story .. the story i told .. is if i can remember ... somewhere in south america .. i ll search for it .. .. and i am not exaggerating..

Hrmmzz OK sure............

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So, you think the UFO business is nonsense, yet you believe in a man who has been proved time and again to be a fake? Strange.

ufo business is a different world .. uri geller lives in a different world.. he is known for his physic abilities.. not a ufo hunter..however he seems to claim that he can make contact with et . .. ist just weird.. to jump from bending spoons to searching for ET.. thats why i am saying that he is out of money ! .and now i m thinking he is lying about making contact with ufo .. but. its never been proven that he is fake..

. if he keeps going on like this .he wont have any credibility left.. he had his time.. its time for him to stop .. or keep doing the bending spoon thing...

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Very common with the hard core believers.... To "spice up" cases to make them seem more ET-like.

Does noone any favours. :no:

Who need evil desinformation agents :w00t: They did it to themselves.

http://www.thesurvivorsclub.org/extreme/surviving-accidents/sole-survivor-the-girl-who-fell-2-miles-from-the-sky ... here is the story ... believe what you want. and yes i got the story a little bit wrong. but its also been a while .. since i heard this story .. i m not here to make things up..
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We know that whatever "psychic" abilities humans may have, they are exceedingly weak. There is good evidence towards the existence of the subtle use of normal bio-electric fields in influencing biological systems (e.g. disease healing in others, possibly even the "chi" effects in martial arts).

But the only inorganic effects we have are minimal.

Too bad Uri Geller and his ilk have made the whole topic virtually taboo for Western science.

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I honestly fail to see how you could look at the evidence and come to the conclusion that Geller is more than a garden variety charlatan. What do you find convincing about him? Honestly, you have me rather intrigued.

The evidence is in Braun. As I have pointed out. If this was the other way aorund and Braun had commented on someone's UFO sighting and said "It's some sort of spyplane" etc (probably a bad example but you get my point) you would swear by his comment and use that as evidence. Saying because of his intelligence and position he has to be correct. I've seen this done so many times. Once it happens the other way. it cna't possibly be the case. It's hilerious. I don't even beleive Gellar did it, I think Braun might have lied. I'm just making a point of how soime people who claim to be skeptics choose the evidence they want and brush other evidence under the carpet. lol

I was talking about the effect of life experience and intelligence on how gullible somebody may be, what I was hoping for in reply was...

'Maybe there is a link there' or 'No I don't believe there is a link between the life experience and how gullible you are' or something along those lines, not 'Come on now, the guy was in the SS. You want life experience? lol'

But to respond to your reply, being in the SS is no safeguard against being tricked or gullible (how many SS members willingly killed for Hitlers cause? Sounds a little gullible to me). If anything the power linked with this roll could increase your self importance and help you believe you are infallible, for example 'I cannot be tricked, therefore this must be real'. It may give you some experience of life others will never see, but not particularly helpful when it comes to spotting how a 'magician' does his tricks.

Back to my point, being intelligent is no safeguard against being tricked, being gullible or being naive unlike what you have suggested.

He never joined the Nazi's for political reasons, he did it to work on his dream. So all that time he didn't fall for Hitlers BS. (this is aimed at Psyche's point as well)

One of his main abilities is problem solving. To me people who are good at problem solving are hard to trick.

Why can't you accept the possibility they are both lying?

Edited by Coffey
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ufo business is a different world .. uri geller lives in a different world.. he is known for his physic abilities.. not a ufo hunter..however he seems to claim that he can make contact with et . .. ist just weird.. to jump from bending spoons to searching for ET.. thats why i am saying that he is out of money ! .and now i m thinking he is lying about making contact with ufo .. but. its never been proven that he is fake..

. if he keeps going on like this .he wont have any credibility left.. he had his time.. its time for him to stop .. or keep doing the bending spoon thing...

Ref highlited text..........Yes it has. Many times

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Too bad Uri Geller and his ilk have made the whole topic virtually taboo for Western science.

Actually I would say that it is too bad James Randi and his ilk have made the whole topic virtually taboo for Western Science...

Although I speculated that Randi may have been recruited by the Intelligence Service....to take down Geller (first and foremost)

it probably wasn't the CIA....... ^_^ (unless different departments had different aims)

as this is what they had to say on a released CIA FOIA document....

extract...

http://www.remotevie..._military_b.htm

DIA report on the James Randi use of 'plants' in experiments - 1983

"Thus, it is apparent that Mr. Randi has presented an extremely one-sided view of this hoax attempt. He even claims that all parapsychological research is of , questionable value. Most TV and press coverage thus far also reflect these views. As a result, the general public is given highly biased perspectives of this research area in general. This could generate negative reactions toward all parapsychological research, even for those laboratories where controls are tight and where unsolicited subjects are not accepted.

It is clear Mr. Randi is solely interested in promoting his image as a clever magician, and in enhancing his career as a showman, at the expense of reporting accuracy. The use of tactics involving "plants" raises significant ethical issues as well."

complete document....

http://www.remotevie...James Randi.pdf

.IMO...Randi has gone way too far in his crusade and while some of his findings might be helpful...he carries a lot of reponsibility

for twisting healthy scepticism into a kind of religion....where NO BELIEF has become the order of the day.

.

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for twisting healthy scepticism into a kind of religion....where NO BELIEF has become the order of the day.

Isn't beleiving in Science or nothing still believing?

You can't not believe in something really.

Even if you don't believe in something you are believing it's not true. lol

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He never joined the Nazi's for political reasons, he did it to work on his dream. So all that time he didn't fall for Hitlers BS. (this is aimed at Psyche's point as well)

You suggested being in the SS was a safeguard against being gullible (through life experience), I suggested otherwise. I know little of Brauns motives and reasons for joining (if he had a choice), again you seem to have missed what I was pointing at.

One of his main abilities is problem solving. To me people who are good at problem solving are hard to trick.

That is the sort of response I have been hoping for. Fair play, a good problem solver would definitely have an edge at figuring out how he had been tricked, as long as he realised he had been tricked.

Why can't you accept the possibility they are both lying?

Like I said, I have not witnessed what you are discussing, I just had to question you when you expressed your opinion that a man of high intelligence could not be fooled by someone using a trick.

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I'm desperate? Coming from the person who said Randi was recruited by the intelligence service and his first assignment was Geller!

Then you say you believe that Geller can manipulate the magnetic field, but you have no evidence whatsoever that that is the case. It's just a random belief.

Then you see a video of him using a magnet to move a compass and you claim it's video editing!

as I said before that video was just speculative and inconclusive regarding a magnet being used....and yes I wouldn't be surprised if there was 'editing'....

When Geller first became well known in Britain (early 1970s) he did a radio show and lots of listeners phoned in to say that anomalous things had happened

to keys, watches and cutlery, in their own homes.

As I said somewhere before Geller is also a catalyst for others to 'effect metal'.......and it doesn't take a genius to work out how this was and is, perceived

as a possible threat to modern technology.

Hence the extreme Geller-bashing we have on the internet. IMO.

.

.

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Isn't beleiving in Science or nothing still believing?

You can't not believe in something really.

Even if you don't believe in something you are believing it's not true. lol

Ok..... :)

NO BELIEF in anything vaguely classed as paranormal.

And only believing the science and scientists endorsed generally by the status quo....

which is...the closed-minded sceptic's ultimate appeal to authority...... ^_^

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For Pete's sakes Bee

What is the inherent property of Nitinol which it is famous for?

Byrd writes that at the time of his test with Uri "Nitinol was not generally available to the public." His point is that Uri, who might have known in advance (through mutual friends) of Byrd's interest in nitinol, would have had great difficulty obtaining samples. Not true. The Edmund Scientific Company, which advertised then, as now , in popular magazines, listed a "nitinol kit" for five dollars in its catalogs fro 1971, 1972, and 1973. For an additional dollar you could get a 96-page NASA Nitinol Book that went into details about the alloys properties. samples of nitinol wire were distributed free during those years by the Naval Ordnance Laboratory at their lab exhibits to people who toured the lab and in response to written requests.

Not only that but magicians were familiar with nitinol. In 1972 a New York amateur, Charles Kalish, was mystifying friends with trick he had invented, which was later sold by a London magic store. A spectator selects a digit from one through nine. A paperclip (actually made of nitinol) is placed in an envelope and the envelope burned. Searching the ashes, one finds that the wire has assumed the shape of the chosen numeral.

Byrd has freely admitted in letters to me that at the Isis Center conditions were so uncontrolled that "almost anything" could have happened. Distractions were so great, he wrote, that even "wire swapping" could have occured.

But more importantly:

In his paper, Byrd says that "several metallurgists" at the naval center tried to remove this right-angle kink in the Gellerized wire by putting the wire "under tension in a vacuum chamber" and heating it until it glowed. When the wire cooled, the kink returned. "They had no explanation for this behaviour."

According to the Naval Surface Weapons Center, this test was never made. Indeed, the center was so annoyed by Panati's false assertion that the Isis Center was a government laboratory that they asked their public affairs office to prepare a four-page memorandum (dated July 19, 1976) to send in resonse to serious inquiries. The memorandum stated that the experiments with Uri "were undertaken by Mr. Byrd as a personal interest, on his own time, and at no cost to the government."

On page 4 of his introduction, Panati writes that Geller demonstrated his psi powers "for physical scientist Eldon Byrd at the Naval Surface Weapons Center," and on page 5, "Geller arrived at the Naval Surface Weapons Center in October of 1973." "This is in error," the memorandum states. "Geller has never been on the premises of the Naval Surface Weapons Center." Byrd's chapter had been reviewed by the Naval Ordnance Laboratory only from the standpoint of accuracy about the properties of nitinol and for compliance with military security. The laboratory, says the memo, "assumed no responsibility for the outcome or implications of Mr. Byrd's experiments." Approving the release of Byrd's paper "neither confirmed nor denied the parapsychological aspects" of the paper.

As for Byrd's claim that "several metallurgists" tried to remove the kink in a vacuum chamber, the memo states: "The occurrence of that test could not be confirmed by laboratory records or by metallurgists at the laboratory." Dr. Frederick E. Wang, the navy's top nitinol expert, was the man who Byrd thought had made such a test. Wang cannot remember making it.

LiNK

:no:

Just no Bee, no.

and Byrd's response.....

Letters: Eldon Byrd replies to Martin Gardner

I almost ignored the invitation to respond to Martin Gardner's article "Geller, Gulls, and Nitinol," but decided that it needed to be on record that I did not 100 per cent agree with it... There were many errorsin Mr. Gardner's article. A few were easy to make, such as referring to me as an operations analyst instead of a physical scientist and spelling Ordnance, "Ordinance." However, others were made on purpose to mislead the reader. Most of your readers are probably unaware of Martin Gardner's journalistic techniques because they may share his viewpoints. I feel that Martin Gardner believes that if he can discredit the work of anyone who supports the possibility that Uri Geller or anyone like him can produce "paranormal" events then the end justifies the means. (Be it journalistic "licence" or enlisting the aid of a third party like Mr. Klass to act as an intelligence gatherer.)

I had an opportunity to ask Hannah (Shipi Shtrang's sister) if she ever said that she assisted Uri dupe an audience. I doubt that Martin Gardner asked her directly about it, relying on third party information. It is my understanding that when Hannah was approached by the reporter from Israel she wouldn't even talk to him. Therefore an alternative possibility to footnote#2 in Mr. Gardner's article is that the reporter made up the story because Hannah wouldn't talk to him.

Another error was made in referring to Dr. Hawke as a paraphysicist. Still another was that I told Mr. Klass that I may have told Geller that I had metal with a memory, but did not recall if I specifically said it was Nitinol. I never had any contact with Uri Geller prior to the October 1973 meeting at the Isis Center.

However, there exists a third type of error in the article by Mr. Gardner that is inexusable. Mr. Gardner knew that Charles Panati's editorial comments in The Geller Papers were in error, yet he deliberately made it appear to the reader that I condoned them. There are other errors I could cite but they would only serve to add more of the same.

I am not trying to prove to the world that Uri Geller is "real," nor am I trying to say that my scientific techniques are flawless. It is apparent that there are those, however, who are vigorously persuing a course of action similar to the Salem witch-hunts to try to convince people that the Uri Geller's of the world and their friends should be drowned.

Eldon A. Byrd

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