Palestine Is Still The Issue

[buckskin scout]

http://www.jewishvir...ianzionism.html

http://www.jewishvir...st_Zionism.html

http://www.jewishvir...onism/gush.html

http://www.jewishvir...st_Zionism.html

Apparently Zionism comes in many flavors historically. But one need NOT be Jewish to call oneself a Zionist. I do so because of my religious belief in the Jewish right to possess the land based on the holy scripture. This is not a wholesale endorsement of every stupid or even vile action of the secular State of Israel which is no more "holy" or better than any other flawed, human institution. Above are some of the other forms of Zionism.

Zionism is entirely secular, irreligious, and political. The regathering of the Jews is supposed to be spiritual and peaceful. Remember the regathering is spiritual and peaceful.

In many ways, descriptively, would you class Zionism and nation of Israel as an Anti-Christ (Synagogue of Satan?)? No anti-semitism intended just food for thought.

It is illegal to proselytize a Jew to Christianity in Israel, THEY CAN PRESS CHARGES AND HAVE CHRISTIANS ARRESTED OVER THERE FOR PROSELYTIZING TO A JEW (IIRC, IT ENTAILS JAIL TIME OR BE KICKED OUT OF THE COUNTRY). Dont quote me on the latter bit though.

The Jewish Virtual Library isnt a good source btw.

Edited July 13, 2012 by dside

[+and-then]

Zionism is entirely secular, irreligious, and political. The regathering of the Jews is supposed to be spiritual and peaceful. Remember the regathering is spiritual and peaceful.

In many ways, descriptively, would you class Zionism and nation of Israel as an Anti-Christ (Synagogue of Satan?)? No anti-semitism intended just food for thought.

It is illegal to proselytize a Jew to Christianity in Israel, THEY CAN PRESS CHARGES AND HAVE CHRISTIANS ARRESTED OVER THERE FOR PROSELYTIZING TO A JEW (IIRC, IT ENTAILS JAIL TIME OR BE KICKED OUT OF THE COUNTRY). Dont quote me on the latter bit though.

The Jewish Virtual Library isnt a good source btw.

Ezekiel clearly describes a regathering and life being returned to the "dry bones" which stands on it's feet "an exceeding great army"....that doesn't sound like a peaceful regathering to me. The very ability for Jews to do so is doubtful since they have been hounded down the centuries in every nation on earth. As to how Christians are treated or even viewed in Israel - that is their business. While I believe that a remnant of Jews will accept Christ, I also believe that most will not and will perish. The same holds true for Gentiles as well BTW. We all make our choices. You have clearly decided that the Jews who inhabit the land in Israel are somehow illegitimate and therefore they have no right to be there. This dogma is common and despicable IMO. Thankfully it is God who decides and His decision stands.

[buckskin scout]

Ezekiel clearly describes a regathering and life being returned to the "dry bones" which stands on it's feet "an exceeding great army"....that doesn't sound like a peaceful regathering to me. The very ability for Jews to do so is doubtful since they have been hounded down the centuries in every nation on earth. As to how Christians are treated or even viewed in Israel - that is their business. While I believe that a remnant of Jews will accept Christ, I also believe that most will not and will perish. The same holds true for Gentiles as well BTW. We all make our choices. You have clearly decided that the Jews who inhabit the land in Israel are somehow illegitimate and therefore they have no right to be there. This dogma is common and despicable IMO. Thankfully it is God who decides and His decision stands.

But how do you know nation of Israel is God's doing? It is afterall a secular, irreligious, and political movement not representive of a revival of Judaism. And Palestine was taken land grabbed militarily too and militarily occupied.

[+and-then]

But how do you know nation of Israel is God's doing? It is afterall a secular, irreligious, and political movement not representive of a revival of Judaism. And Palestine was taken land grabbed militarily too and militarily occupied.

He said He would regather them from all the nations in the last days. Israel is composed of Jews from most countries around the world. After two millennia have passed with only a small footprint of Jews left in the land it seems rather remarkable that these words are fulfilled in our time. Did I miss something in scripture that says "they will regather but NOT because of a political yearning"? I'm not trying to be dismissive but it's ridiculous to look at such a remarkable occurrence that has been foretold for centuries and when, against all odds, it occurs, to say it's not valid because of HOW it occurs? As to their irreligious nature why do you think He dispersed them to begin with? They have always tried His patience and He has always forgiven. This is why I cherish the whole idea of an Israeli State. It is proof that God keeps His word. And when He chose them it was to single out one group of humans...one family... and demonstrate His love as well s His discipline to the rest of us.

[Yamato]

He said He would regather them from all the nations in the last days. Israel is composed of Jews from most countries around the world. After two millennia have passed with only a small footprint of Jews left in the land it seems rather remarkable that these words are fulfilled in our time. Did I miss something in scripture that says "they will regather but NOT because of a political yearning"? I'm not trying to be dismissive but it's ridiculous to look at such a remarkable occurrence that has been foretold for centuries and when, against all odds, it occurs, to say it's not valid because of HOW it occurs? As to their irreligious nature why do you think He dispersed them to begin with? They have always tried His patience and He has always forgiven. This is why I cherish the whole idea of an Israeli State. It is proof that God keeps His word. And when He chose them it was to single out one group of humans...one family... and demonstrate His love as well s His discipline to the rest of us.

Israel is turning the Torah upside down on its head and is destroying God not affirming him. You poor Zionists are so brainwashed with pro-Israel disinformation.

So through Hitler, God keeps his word? LOL

Israel. Promised to you by God, brought to you by Hitler. The mind of a Christian Zionist.

You believe in evil and inhumanity as an extension of your belief in your God. Do you know anything about the Lord Jesus Christ and how anti-Christ Israel is? Embrace the racist "discipline" and forget the disciples? So forget Jesus and Christianity...let's focus on anti-Christian Ashkenazis who duped the foolish masses with their piles of money and guilt goading propaganda into falsely believing they have an entitlement to someone else's land. If they have a selfish entitlement to anyone's land anywhere, it's the hindquarters of Germany or maybe a black forest in Slovakia or maybe Borat's village in Kazakhstan. Their only connection to the land of Israel is the blood they've spilled there.

We were duped by the Holocaust into white Europe getting rid of its Jewish problem by exporting it to the Middle East where it didn't belong. These anti-Jew Europeans should have been forced to learn how to live with people in peace that they were brainwashed into not liking.

The few Semites who are Jews were already living at peace with the Semites for hundreds of years before Zionist terrorists showed up on the scene and ruined it. If you support Zionist Israel you're effectually an anti-Semite because it's the Semites that Israel is destroying every day. In that, at least you're wise not to sloppily use the label on others when you might end up wearing it.

[+and-then]

Israel is turning the Torah upside down on its head and is destroying God not affirming him. You poor Zionists are so brainwashed with pro-Israel disinformation.

So through Hitler, God keeps his word? LOL

Israel. Promised to you by God, brought to you by Hitler. The mind of a Christian Zionist.

You believe in evil and inhumanity as an extension of your belief in your God. Do you know anything about the Lord Jesus Christ and how anti-Christ Israel is? Embrace the racist "discipline" and forget the disciples? So forget Jesus and Christianity...let's focus on anti-Christian Ashkenazis who duped the foolish masses with their piles of money and guilt goading propaganda into falsely believing they have an entitlement to someone else's land. If they have a selfish entitlement to anyone's land anywhere, it's the hindquarters of Germany or maybe a black forest in Slovakia or maybe Borat's village in Kazakhstan. Their only connection to the land of Israel is the blood they've spilled there.

We were duped by the Holocaust into white Europe getting rid of its Jewish problem by exporting it to the Middle East where it didn't belong. These anti-Jew Europeans should have been forced to learn how to live with people in peace that they were brainwashed into not liking.

The few Semites who are Jews were already living at peace with the Semites for hundreds of years before Zionist terrorists showed up on the scene and ruined it. If you support Zionist Israel you're effectually an anti-Semite because it's the Semites that Israel is destroying every day. In that, at least you're wise not to sloppily use the label on others when you might end up wearing it.

The biggest problem with what you just said is that Israel has about 5 million "Zionists". By your reckoning only those Jews who hate their government are legitimately entitled to live there. It must be frustrating to realize, though you'd never admit, that Israel is there to stay. As to Hitler fulfilling God's will, why not? Pharaoh did. Haman did. Nebuchadnezzar did. God has a record of raising up evil to punish Israel historically. Evil and inhumanity is a reality of this world. God is not responsible for it, we are. Yes, Israel IS antiChrist. They rejected Him and will continue to do so until the very end. I make no justification for their wrongs. I simply say that the existence of the State of Israel was prophesied and I am instructed to be onboard with that and to bless them as much as I can. You believe that you know better and are acting on that belief - your choice. Edited July 15, 2012 by and then

[buckskin scout]

The biggest problem with what you just said is that Israel has about 5 million "Zionists". By your reckoning only those Jews who hate their government are legitimately entitled to live there. It must be frustrating to realize, though you'd never admit, that Israel is there to stay. As to Hitler fulfilling God's will, why not? Pharaoh did. Haman did. Nebuchadnezzar did. God has a record of raising up evil to punish Israel historically. Evil and inhumanity is a reality of this world. God is not responsible for it, we are. Yes, Israel IS antiChrist. They rejected Him and will continue to do so until the very end. I make no justification for their wrongs. I simply say that the existence of the State of Israel was prophesied and I am instructed to be onboard with that and to bless them as much as I can. You believe that you know better and are acting on that belief - your choice.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-13 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Lk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

[buckskin scout]

The biggest problem with what you just said is that Israel has about 5 million "Zionists". By your reckoning only those Jews who hate their government are legitimately entitled to live there. It must be frustrating to realize, though you'd never admit, that Israel is there to stay. As to Hitler fulfilling God's will, why not? Pharaoh did. Haman did. Nebuchadnezzar did. God has a record of raising up evil to punish Israel historically. Evil and inhumanity is a reality of this world. God is not responsible for it, we are. Yes, Israel IS antiChrist. They rejected Him and will continue to do so until the very end. I make no justification for their wrongs. I simply say that the existence of the State of Israel was prophesied and I am instructed to be onboard with that and to bless them as much as I can. You believe that you know better and are acting on that belief - your choice.

But has God ever gathered up and raised an apostate Israel?????

[Yamato]

The biggest problem with what you just said is that Israel has about 5 million "Zionists". By your reckoning only those Jews who hate their government are legitimately entitled to live there. It must be frustrating to realize, though you'd never admit, that Israel is there to stay. As to Hitler fulfilling God's will, why not? Pharaoh did. Haman did. Nebuchadnezzar did. God has a record of raising up evil to punish Israel historically. Evil and inhumanity is a reality of this world. God is not responsible for it, we are. Yes, Israel IS antiChrist. They rejected Him and will continue to do so until the very end. I make no justification for their wrongs. I simply say that the existence of the State of Israel was prophesied and I am instructed to be onboard with that and to bless them as much as I can. You believe that you know better and are acting on that belief - your choice.

I haven't reckoned that Jews aren't entitled to live in their own homes in Israel. People who support Zionist policies are a big problem, but not as big a problem as the policies. You can continue to support a government (which is representative of the state in many peoples minds) but fail to continue to support a set of policies coming out of that government and that would be sufficient to satiate me. Everyone alive is entitled to live wherever it is they call home. How do these five million people best live at peace? Changing away from their government's terroristic policies is a no-brainer. The policy guarantees retributive attacks and puts the life of every Israeli in harm's way. Change the policy and hope will spring anew. I believe huge positive changes are possible particularly through the young people of Israel just like there is great hope from the young people of Egypt, Syria, Libya, Algeria and Iran to shape and correct their own country's futures. The youth revolts are a worldwide phenomenon ("the Ron Paul kids") and can benefit Israel more than most. Israel's paranoid terrorist regime would start to imprison its own young people more and more in response to revolutionary activities and it would be of primary importance to defend the rights of Israeli protestors. One good example of this would be paying for the legal defense of the Shministim.

[+and-then]

I haven't reckoned that Jews aren't entitled to live in their own homes in Israel. People who support Zionist policies are a big problem, but not as big a problem as the policies. You can continue to support a government (which is representative of the state in many peoples minds) but fail to continue to support a set of policies coming out of that government and that would be sufficient to satiate me. Everyone alive is entitled to live wherever it is they call home. How do these five million people best live at peace? Changing away from their government's terroristic policies is a no-brainer. The policy guarantees retributive attacks and puts the life of every Israeli in harm's way. Change the policy and hope will spring anew. I believe huge positive changes are possible particularly through the young people of Israel just like there is great hope from the young people of Egypt, Syria, Libya, Algeria and Iran to shape and correct their own country's futures. The youth revolts are a worldwide phenomenon ("the Ron Paul kids") and can benefit Israel more than most. Israel's paranoid terrorist regime would start to imprison its own young people more and more in response to revolutionary activities and it would be of primary importance to defend the rights of Israeli protestors. One good example of this would be paying for the legal defense of the Shministim.

I see where the disconnect is occurring. You simply cannot believe that if Israel were to unilaterally disengage that the Palestinians would not reciprocate. They did disengage from Gaza, which they did not have to do. At some point I believe they will disengage from at least portions of the WB and, I believe, the same scenario will play out.... more attacks. I look at the actual history of what HAS occurred, not at what I hope may occur. Groups like the Shministim are inevitable in a free society. Even healthy to the debate. But ignoring reality and continually giving up even more of their scarce land is not the answer. You do not believe the rhetoric of the Palestinian leadership. You treat them as people with western temperament wearing kafiyas. They are the product of a couple generations of hate education.

In short, you have hope and some kind of faith in a solution and I, after watching it for about 40 years, no longer do.

[Yamato]

I see where the disconnect is occurring. You simply cannot believe that if Israel were to unilaterally disengage that the Palestinians would not reciprocate. They did disengage from Gaza, which they did not have to do. At some point I believe they will disengage from at least portions of the WB and, I believe, the same scenario will play out.... more attacks. I look at the actual history of what HAS occurred, not at what I hope may occur. Groups like the Shministim are inevitable in a free society. Even healthy to the debate. But ignoring reality and continually giving up even more of their scarce land is not the answer. You do not believe the rhetoric of the Palestinian leadership. You treat them as people with western temperament wearing kafiyas. They are the product of a couple generations of hate education.

In short, you have hope and some kind of faith in a solution and I, after watching it for about 40 years, no longer do.

You don't have hope because you won't imagine the policy changing. What policy is that? The Zionist policy of migrate, settle, develop, and oppress. When the Zionist regime vanishes from the pages of time, hope will rise for everyone involved, perhaps for the Israelis as much as the Palestinians.

"The Separation Barrier" makes the Berlin Wall look like a toy. That monstrosity needs to come down and the land Israel stole in its construction needs to be returned. That's another good idea for a whole new discussion. And that's just the prologue to the peace. When we can agree to insist on changing policies, real changes that bring real hope are possible; but in order to do that we must first stop supporting a paranoid, terroristic, hypernationalistic, hypocritical, bigoted regime. Israel is insane, and we're insane to support it.

[+and-then]

You don't have hope because you won't imagine the policy changing. What policy is that? The Zionist policy of migrate, settle, develop, and oppress. When the Zionist regime vanishes from the pages of time, hope will rise for everyone involved, perhaps for the Israelis as much as the Palestinians.

"The Separation Barrier" makes the Berlin Wall look like a toy. That monstrosity needs to come down and the land Israel stole in its construction needs to be returned. That's another good idea for a whole new discussion. And that's just the prologue to the peace. When we can agree to insist on changing policies, real changes that bring real hope are possible; but in order to do that we must first stop supporting a paranoid, terroristic, hypernationalistic, hypocritical, bigoted regime. Israel is insane, and we're insane to support it.

The separation barrier is predominately a chain link fence with cameras and sensors to detect intrusion. Those portions that are a physical wall are only in areas where snipers had been shooting at Israeli civilians in their homes and on the roads. The thing that makes the Hamas crazy about the fence is that it has stopped their ability to blow up buses at will. No fence existed until the 2nd intifada gave the Israelis reason to build it. If it were you and your family being shot at I think you'd sing a different tune about the fence.

[Yamato]

The separation barrier is predominately a chain link fence with cameras and sensors to detect intrusion. Those portions that are a physical wall are only in areas where snipers had been shooting at Israeli civilians in their homes and on the roads. The thing that makes the Hamas crazy about the fence is that it has stopped their ability to blow up buses at will. No fence existed until the 2nd intifada gave the Israelis reason to build it. If it were you and your family being shot at I think you'd sing a different tune about the fence.

Even the Hamas attacks in the '90s were predicated by Zionist terrorists like this widely celebrated piece of crap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein

Terrorist Rabbi Yaacov Perrin claimed that even one million Arabs are "not worth a Jewish fingernail". This suggests that Palestinians should have put Israelis under siege and in cages, not the other way around.

[+and-then]

Even the Hamas attacks in the '90s were predicated by Zionist terrorists like this widely celebrated piece of crap:

http://en.wikipedia....aruch_Goldstein

Terrorist Rabbi Yaacov Perrin claimed that even one million Arabs are "not worth a Jewish fingernail". This suggests that Palestinians should have put Israelis under siege and in cages, not the other way around.

You don't really want to start a comparison of who shot who first and how often do you? Goldstein was a mass murderer and died for his trouble. Good riddance. The point in reality is that Israel would experience dozens or even hundreds of "Goldsteins" from the Palestinians if there were no fence. The point you make is valid in the sense that it explains why things will stay the same until Hamas or Hezbollah decide to go "once more into the breach" and try to attack and destroy Israel. I think when the next one happens, Israel will go all in and give themselves some breathing room for a while. Having the UN scream and throw a tantrum doesn't seem to have bothered Assad so much. Israel is watching that...and learning from it. The UN is impotent AND toothless and Israel will probably ignore them and Obama's rants when it goes down.

You should red a commentary on Psalm 83. You don't have to be a religious zealot to see the parallels of today's situation there.

[MichaelW]

Israel is turning the Torah upside down on its head and is destroying God not affirming him.

And here I was thinking that you didn't hate Israel for non-religious reasons. Honestly, does it actually matter what the Jews may or may not think of God or Jesus?

[Yamato]

You don't really want to start a comparison of who shot who first and how often do you? Goldstein was a mass murderer and died for his trouble. Good riddance. The point in reality is that Israel would experience dozens or even hundreds of "Goldsteins" from the Palestinians if there were no fence. The point you make is valid in the sense that it explains why things will stay the same until Hamas or Hezbollah decide to go "once more into the breach" and try to attack and destroy Israel. I think when the next one happens, Israel will go all in and give themselves some breathing room for a while. Having the UN scream and throw a tantrum doesn't seem to have bothered Assad so much. Israel is watching that...and learning from it. The UN is impotent AND toothless and Israel will probably ignore them and Obama's rants when it goes down.

You should red a commentary on Psalm 83. You don't have to be a religious zealot to see the parallels of today's situation there.

So it works both ways then, doesn't it? Whenever even just one person, one terrorist wackjob from either side to attack and kill people and it creates political constipation throughout the establishment on both sides. We've got to resist that. One of the best Israeli bureaucrats of all time was Rabin, and he got a bullet in the head for his efforts. Whether someone thinks that's justice or not doesn't provide a solution. Killing and violence is what prevents it.