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buckskin scout

Palestine Is Still The Issue

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and then

A spider webbed state of corridors and pock marks in between a hostile neighbor? LOL there is no compromise there, there is only submission bent over backwards.

Israel was aggressive with its air force and still is. The siege is not legal it's another example of Israel breaking the law and getting away with it. Israel's policies against Palestinians are fundamentally illegal by international standards, and they should be.

If this is so then why are they not being held under international sanctions? Why can't they get the votes to bring consequences to bear on Israel? The UN spends an inordinate amount of time and effort criticising Israel so why do they stop at words? If the case is so clear cut and most of the nations of the world are in agreement then why?

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Yamato

If this is so then why are they not being held under international sanctions? Why can't they get the votes to bring consequences to bear on Israel? The UN spends an inordinate amount of time and effort criticising Israel so why do they stop at words? If the case is so clear cut and most of the nations of the world are in agreement then why?

Nuclear power, regional superpower, strategic US interest.

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and then

Nuclear power, regional superpower, strategic US interest.

Exactly..... yet people the world over continue to push and push and push at them for simply wanting to live on a piece of land they can call their own

in peace. The whole thing is irrational and it's going to end badly.

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Yamato

Exactly..... yet people the world over continue to push and push and push at them for simply wanting to live on a piece of land they can call their own

in peace. The whole thing is irrational and it's going to end badly.

If that's all they want then let's cut Greater Israel in half and give the southern half to Palestine. Put peacekeepers in for 50, 100 or 200 years. Whatever it takes to heal this torn land once and for all. Your Christian-Zionist prophecy be damned sir.

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President Wearer of Hats

If this is so then why are they not being held under international sanctions? Why can't they get the votes to bring consequences to bear on Israel? The UN spends an inordinate amount of time and effort criticising Israel so why do they stop at words? If the case is so clear cut and most of the nations of the world are in agreement then why?

Because Israel has powerful friends in the UN.

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If that's all they want then let's cut Greater Israel in half and give the southern half to Palestine. Put peacekeepers in for 50, 100 or 200 years. Whatever it takes to heal this torn land once and for all. Your Christian-Zionist prophecy be damned sir.

First of all, it's not MY prophecy, I only read and believe it. Second, I think that if a day comes when you see with your own eyes that it is the Palestinians who actually will accept nothing less than all the land, you are going to be greatly disappointed and feel pretty foolish.

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Because Israel has powerful friends in the UN.

Only one that I know of and that's the US. And it is my belief that if Israel did not possess a nuclear weapons stockpile even my country would have washed hands of them long ago. We are known for being brutally self interested. But their status in the world changed forever in about '67 when they became a member of the Club. Now they are recognized by all the rational leaders of the world to be here for good and all. Only the Palestinians and Islamists who use the Palestinians still hold out hope they can be removed from the scene. I think the world wouldn't cry if Israel was destroyed, thinking they "deserve" it. It's interesting to me how the greatest conflict of modern times had it's genesis in an old family feud. I've often thought of the conflict as a message from our Creator showing us what happens when we cannot coexist, even with our own kindred.

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MichaelW

I have no idea what content you're talking about, but I stand by all of my content. Why don't you show up over there in that dinosaur thread and say something rude to me about my content.

You do and you won't admit it. But it's nice to know that you've finally run out of insults and other BS that you can't even make a full paragraph anymore.

And also, Somalian pirates do attack foreign flagged ships in international waters. Hence why there is a massive anti-piracy operation in the area involving a lot of naval vessels from around the world. And why doesn't the Somali government do anything about it? It can't. It cannot maintain control over the capital city let alone over the country side. Although things are looking up there since the Kenyan invasion.

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Super-Fly

I find that israel is the only westerised state in the area, thats why is persecuted so much.

As it goes against the grain to the way middle eastern think

But then again, i think its a dummy cause to find a way to kick off like a proxy to other an country

For me israel is a nice place and is a sucker in the games being played

whilst being a good country

until a definate decision is made it will always be the same

nice OP!

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Yamato

First of all, it's not MY prophecy, I only read and believe it. Second, I think that if a day comes when you see with your own eyes that it is the Palestinians who actually will accept nothing less than all the land, you are going to be greatly disappointed and feel pretty foolish.

See how it's all about the land for you? I don't represent those Palestinians, whoever you're talking about. I represent the ones who want self determination, self esteem, self worth, and self responsibility. They deserve their own statehood and all of the rights, benefits, and privileges that statehood confers. Palestinian refugees and non-refugees can come home.

You don't believe your own prophecy because you support Zionist mass migration and illegal colonies. You can't have both, unless you're a bloodthirsty monster trying to exterminate "the Jews" and "the Arabs" both! And based on the way you write, you're not a monster. The strongest emotion running through you is fear and perhaps even paranoia. You reek of fear sir. I think your belief in that prophecy is bad for your health. You need to chill with some cheeba cheeba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUnyGCWXOk8

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Yamato

You do and you won't admit it. But it's nice to know that you've finally run out of insults and other BS that you can't even make a full paragraph anymore.

And also, Somalian pirates do attack foreign flagged ships in international waters. Hence why there is a massive anti-piracy operation in the area involving a lot of naval vessels from around the world. And why doesn't the Somali government do anything about it? It can't. It cannot maintain control over the capital city let alone over the country side. Although things are looking up there since the Kenyan invasion.

You do

Whatever you think you're talking about, bring it. I find my own content utterly defensible, whatever it is you're slobbering about.

Hence why there is a massive anti-piracy operation in the area involving a lot of naval vessels from around the world.

Now that's what I'm talking about. A massive anti-Israel operation in Gazan and international waters involving a lot of naval vessels from around the world. The Turkish, Greek, US and others should escort Gaza-bound ships breaking Israel's illegal and widely condemned siege of Gaza. These should be government ships escorting these flotilla, and we should also remember our treaty with NATO (something quite easy for someone from NZ to neglect or disrespect, I'm sure).

New Zealand is so out of the way, I think NZ should pay welfare to Israel. It's money from such a pure and disconnected source. It'll look genuine. Israelis will see your flag on the package and think "Where's New Zealand?" Win-win-win for everybody.

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and then

See how it's all about the land for you? I don't represent those Palestinians, whoever you're talking about. I represent the ones who want self determination, self esteem, self worth, and self responsibility. They deserve their own statehood and all of the rights, benefits, and privileges that statehood confers. Palestinian refugees and non-refugees can come home.

You don't believe your own prophecy because you support Zionist mass migration and illegal colonies. You can't have both, unless you're a bloodthirsty monster trying to exterminate "the Jews" and "the Arabs" both! And based on the way you write, you're not a monster. The strongest emotion running through you is fear and perhaps even paranoia. You reek of fear sir. I think your belief in that prophecy is bad for your health. You need to chill with some cheeba cheeba.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUnyGCWXOk8[/media]

You may have finally struck nail on head. It IS all about the land for a Christian Zionist. As a group our concerns are for the people of Israel but of at least as great importance is that God says in His word that the land is His and is NOT to be divided - not even by Jews! I think many of their problems come from the fact that even THEY have been trying to give away land for peace instead of just trusting His word about it. Sometimes it seems to me that the whole situation was contrived as some sort of test for the human race and we're failing miserably. As to the fear, if I am I'm not overly aware of it. I'll admit to some since my outlook for the future is pretty grim in the short run but I really do believe things are going to be infinitely better in the not so distant future. Now I will attend to Cheeba Cheeba....

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MichaelW
Whatever you think you're talking about, bring it.

I already brought it for everyone to see. You can defend your intolerance if you want. But it ain't gonna help you.

I find my own content utterly defensible, whatever it is you're slobbering about.

Good. Tell me why you believe such intolerance then. If it is so defensible, you should be able to defend it.

A massive anti-Israel operation in Gazan and international waters involving a lot of naval vessels from around the world.

Unless you can show me where Israel raids international vessels in international waters on a regular basis, this appears to be nothing more than a complete and utter waste of my time explaining the obvious.

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Yamato

I already brought it for everyone to see. You can defend your intolerance if you want. But it ain't gonna help you.

Good. Tell me why you believe such intolerance then. If it is so defensible, you should be able to defend it.

Unless you can show me where Israel raids international vessels in international waters on a regular basis, this appears to be nothing more than a complete and utter waste of my time explaining the obvious.

You've lowered yourself into a pit of lies. My content is defensible and stands on its own, wherever you dream of finding it. Next time, remember to tell the truth and actually find my content you're only lying about. You waste your time fleshing out my arguments with Zionists and making a fool and a liar out of yourself. A kid half the world away from the world's problems whose government is a great big do-nothing thinking he can tell me what to do with my money. You're tossed in the head, kid.

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MichaelW
You've lowered yourself into a pit of lies.

Yes because posting a link showing you blatantly criticising a Hindu's views of vegetarianism is a "lie".

My content is defensible and stands on its own, wherever you dream of finding it.

Then defend it then.

Next time, remember to tell the truth and actually find my content you're only lying about.

But I have. I have shown to the entire world about what kind of person you are.

You waste your time fleshing out my arguments with Zionists and making a fool and a liar out of yourself.

I don't consider it time wasted. What I'm seeing now is a very thin argument comprised of nothing but deflections to the poster. If your position is so defensible, Yamato, defend it. Don't try to deflect it because it won't stick.

A kid half the world away from the world's problems whose government is a great big do-nothing thinking he can tell me what to do with my money. You're tossed in the head, kid.

What's the matter Yam? Don't like it when someone actually shows what kind of person you are? Here's a box of tissues. Have a cry. :passifier:

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Yamato

Yes because posting a link showing you blatantly criticising a Hindu's views of vegetarianism is a "lie".

Then defend it then.

But I have. I have shown to the entire world about what kind of person you are.

I don't consider it time wasted. What I'm seeing now is a very thin argument comprised of nothing but deflections to the poster. If your position is so defensible, Yamato, defend it. Don't try to deflect it because it won't stick.

What's the matter Yam? Don't like it when someone actually shows what kind of person you are? Here's a box of tissues. Have a cry. :passifier:

Yes because posting a link showing you blatantly criticising a Hindu's views of vegetarianism is a "lie".

Where?

Then defend it then.

Show me what your problem is so I can fix it for you.

But I have. I have shown to the entire world about what kind of person you are.

Okay where's your entire world at?

I don't consider it time wasted. What I'm seeing now is a very thin argument comprised of nothing but deflections to the poster. If your position is so defensible, Yamato, defend it. Don't try to deflect it because it won't stick.

My position is already defended. I really don't see what's under attack here. I have no idea what your problem is. Please link me to your problem(s) so I can solve them for you.

What's the matter Yam? Don't like it when someone actually shows what kind of person you are? Here's a box of tissues. Have a cry.

You'll have to show it twice because I must have missed it the first time (or is this just more lying?) A vegetarian Hindu sounds like a perfectly good thing to be to me.

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MichaelW
Where?

A link a couple of pages back. Also, anyone can go through you content.

Show me what your problem is so I can fix it for you.

I don't have any problems. Also, aren't you supposed to be defending what you said? Deflection isn't defence.

Okay where's your entire world at?

Anyone that wishes to see it can follow the link or search the users' content. I only looked through a fraction. Goodness knows what other intolerant BS may be found your post history.

My position is already defended.

Nope. It isn't.

I really don't see what's under attack here.

I can help you find out. First step: leave the basement. Second step: go to the bathroom. Third step: look at the mirror. Hopefully, you'll be able to recognise the person staring back at you.

I have no idea what your problem is.

Your attitude is my problem. Your treatment of other posters is my problem.

Please link me to your problem(s) so I can solve them for you.

This one doesn't need a link. You have an attitude problem.

You'll have to show it twice because I must have missed it the first time (or is this just more lying?) A vegetarian Hindu sounds like a perfectly good thing to be to me.

You missed it the first time? Yam, it wasn't difficult to move the mouse beside your computer and click the link I posted a few pages back. Honestly. Do you actually have a functioning brain in that head of yours? Or has it been dumbed down by all those "morals" and "standards" that you so willingly flaunt about yet don't actually live by?

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Yamato

A link a couple of pages back. Also, anyone can go through you content.

I don't have any problems. Also, aren't you supposed to be defending what you said? Deflection isn't defence.

Anyone that wishes to see it can follow the link or search the users' content. I only looked through a fraction. Goodness knows what other intolerant BS may be found your post history.

Nope. It isn't.

I can help you find out. First step: leave the basement. Second step: go to the bathroom. Third step: look at the mirror. Hopefully, you'll be able to recognise the person staring back at you.

Your attitude is my problem. Your treatment of other posters is my problem.

This one doesn't need a link. You have an attitude problem.

You missed it the first time? Yam, it wasn't difficult to move the mouse beside your computer and click the link I posted a few pages back. Honestly. Do you actually have a functioning brain in that head of yours? Or has it been dumbed down by all those "morals" and "standards" that you so willingly flaunt about yet don't actually live by?

A link to 'Christian view on dinosaurs'?? Do you know how many replies that discussion has? Find what posts of mine you're talking about and provide links to those! Why do I have to ask you to do this three times? If you click on the number of the post you want to cite (in the far right side of the screen) it will put the URL in the address bar to easily copy into your replies.

You're defending ghosts here, and your own shadow. You have nothing to complain about and you have no problems.

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buckskin scout

Only one that I know of and that's the US. And it is my belief that if Israel did not possess a nuclear weapons stockpile even my country would have washed hands of them long ago.

Israeli-nuclear-arsenal.jpg

Israel Deploys Nuclear Weapons on German-Built Submarines

image-358622-galleryV9-ukcq.jpg

The Dolphin class submarines are built for Israel in a shipyard in Kiel (March 2012 photo).

A German shipyard has already built three submarines for Israel, and three more are planned. Now SPIEGEL has learned that Israel is arming the submarines with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. The German government has known about Israel's nuclear weapons program for decades, despite its official denials.

Germany is helping Israel to develop its military nuclear capabilities, SPIEGEL has learned. According to extensive research carried out by the magazine, Israel is equipping submarines that were built in the northern German city of Kiel and largely paid for by the German government with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. The missiles can be launched using a previously secret hydraulic ejection system. Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak told SPIEGEL that Germans should be "proud" that they have secured the existence of the state of Israel "for many years."

In the past, the German government has always stuck to the position that it is unaware of nuclear weapons being deployed on the vessels. Now, however, former high-ranking officials from the German Defense Ministry, including former State Secretary Lothar Rühl and former chief of the planning staff Hans Rühle, have told SPIEGEL that they had always assumed that Israel would deploy nuclear weapons on the submarines. Rühl had even discussed the issue with the military in Tel Aviv.

Israel has a policy of not commenting officially on its nuclear weapons program. Documents from the archives of the German Foreign Ministry make it clear, however, that the German government has known about the program since 1961. The last discussion for which there is evidence took place in 1977, when then-Chancellor Helmut Schmidt spoke to then-Israeli Foreign Minister Moshe Dayan about the issue.

The submarines are built by the German shipyard HDW in Kiel. Three submarines have already been delivered to Israel, and three more will be delivered by 2017. In addition, Israel is considering ordering its seventh, eighth and ninth submarines from Germany.

The German government recently signed the contract for the delivery of the sixth vessel. According to information obtained by SPIEGEL, Chancellor Angela Merkel made substantial concessions to the Israelis. Not only is Berlin financing one-third of the cost of the submarine, around €135 million ($168 million), but it is also allowing Israel to defer its payment until 2015.

Merkel had tied the delivery of the sixth submarine to a number of conditions, including a demand that Israel stop its expansionist settlement policy and allow the completion of a sewage treatment plant in the Gaza Strip, which is partially financed with German money. So far, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has met none of the terms.

Check back on SPIEGEL International on Monday for the full English-language version of SPIEGEL's cover story on Germany's cooperation with Israel over its submarine program.

dgs/SPIEGEL

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/israel-deploys-nuclear-weapons-on-german-submarines-a-836671.html

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MichaelW
Find what posts of mine you're talking about and provide links to those!

Fine.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=80200&st=510#entry4337432

You have nothing to complain about and you have no problems.

I don't have any problems. But you do. You need to fix that connection between your brain and your fingers. It would mean that your content would actually be worth reading other than misguided and misinformed rants about irrelevant subjects and blatant flaming of other posters.

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Yamato

Fine.

http://www.unexplain...10#entry4337432

I don't have any problems. But you do. You need to fix that connection between your brain and your fingers. It would mean that your content would actually be worth reading other than misguided and misinformed rants about irrelevant subjects and blatant flaming of other posters.

I wrote: "You think that it does, but what you think also violates your morality that "killing is wrong". How you express your inadequate moral code in your own life leaves much to be desired in light of the daily bloodbath of Animalia you "require". Your diet is more important than your morality. That's not true for people who actually believe that "killing is wrong". "

Hell yes that's what I said. What's the problem here? Let's make sure we always understand the context of the discussion I'm having with someone else before you cherry pick it. I'm challenging the self-assured moral code of an atheist that claims "One must weigh the pros and cons of obeying the Golden Rule" which isn't a moral it's a moral evasion.

I don't have any problems. But you do. You need to fix that connection between your brain and your fingers. It would mean that your content would actually be worth reading other than misguided and misinformed rants about irrelevant subjects and blatant flaming of other posters.

I'm sorry but you don't have any evidence of that either. You're a liar, michaelw.

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and then
Thanks for posting this. Not trying to be sarcastic but it is the first time I've actually seen one (other than just the sail). The Dolphins are the "patrol boats" of submarines. Yes, with a nuclear tipped cruise missile they provide a credible first strike OR counter punch. The Israeli and German relationship is an enigma to me. I think the Germans look upon the Israelis as deserving help after their history together or possibly Israel is just a good customer. These subs, in my view, provide a true level of stability since no nation, even Iran could attack Israel with nukes and expect to escape retaliation in a big way. The problem with Iran, however is that rationality isn't guaranteed with a theocracy. Khomeini actually stated that losing all of Iran was acceptable if it ended the Jews. His thoughts were pure rational to himself: after all, the "martyrs" were guaranteed paradise.

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MichaelW
Hell yes that's what I said. What's the problem here? Let's make sure we always understand the context of the discussion I'm having with someone else before you cherry pick it. I'm challenging the self-assured moral code of an atheist that claims "One must weigh the pros and cons of obeying the Golden Rule" which isn't a moral it's a moral evasion.

Thing is, he wasn't an atheist. And I am sorry but I find it highly offensive that you go about calling other people's morals "inferior" when yours aren't exactly "superior" either.

I'm sorry but you don't have any evidence of that either. You're a liar, michaelw.

Why would I lie to you? You called me a Zionist, a racist when you have no evidence to prove otherwise. I can find plenty of quotes of you flaming other posters. And if you weren't flaming them, why were you tempoarily banned? Clearly, if your posts are so squeaky clean as you claim, there was no need to ban you.

But they did, so clearly you aren't as angellic as you profess.

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Yamato

Thing is, he wasn't an atheist. And I am sorry but I find it highly offensive that you go about calling other people's morals "inferior" when yours aren't exactly "superior" either.

Why would I lie to you? You called me a Zionist, a racist when you have no evidence to prove otherwise. I can find plenty of quotes of you flaming other posters. And if you weren't flaming them, why were you tempoarily banned? Clearly, if your posts are so squeaky clean as you claim, there was no need to ban you.

But they did, so clearly you aren't as angellic as you profess.

Why would you lie michaelw; maybe because you're desperate for a rock to throw.

Anyone who claims that they were born with their morals and that the essence of their moral birthright is "killing is wrong" deserved some further analysis.

If you support Zionist policies, you're a Zionist for our purposes. It works like any other political label.

Thing is, he wasn't an atheist

"Thing is", based on what? If he's somebody who can deny the morality right out of the church, that's atheistic enough for me. Denying Christ to pretend we're born with our moral codes like animal instincts, especially after being a member in the Church for decades, is beyond atheistic enough.

You're just going in circles chasing your tail, michaelw. You don't have a problem with anything substantive I've said about this issue. There's nothing worth arguing about anymore but you can't let the Nothing go. Banter and insults don't interest me and you can do better than that yourself.

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and then

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/christianzionism.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/Socialist_Zionism.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/gush.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/Revisionist_Zionism.html

Apparently Zionism comes in many flavors historically. But one need NOT be Jewish to call oneself a Zionist. I do so because of my religious belief in the Jewish right to possess the land based on the holy scripture. This is not a wholesale endorsement of every stupid or even vile action of the secular State of Israel which is no more "holy" or better than any other flawed, human institution. Above are some of the other forms of Zionism.

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