Bedeekin Posted July 31, 2012 #51 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Totally real... I agree... there are many methods... different paths to the same goal. It's not that some work for others... it's that they all work perfectly as long as you know the key to get there. The nap... the pre-sleep. I don't know about reptilians other than the genus of the animal kingdom, but I see the metaphor you are using. I am so sorry but I simply can't concur with you on the third eye thing. I can only go on my own experiences and the experience of teaching people coupled with their feedback and results... but there is no need for any preparatory ritual for opening the third eyes, opening chakras or praying... in my experience (and I am not special in any sense of the word). I find that ritualistic belief based approach only adds to the mystery confronted by beginners and so leads them around blind corners and false starts. The process is simple but can very easily be embellished. I didn't naturally start having OOBEs... they happened because of a certain set of circumstances that coincidentally any person can replicate. Also I am not just disagreeing for the sake of it... I am just telling it as it is. This isn't my opinion. Some people find they are blind during the experience. This isn't because they need to open a third eye... which is just a metaphor for "seeing nonphysically"... it's because they are trying to perform a voluntary conscious action that normally happens every time they dream. Attach a ritual to that and a belief that something will work and they will 'see'. Some people see without thinking about it.. some see by shouting 'vision on'... some use their nonphysical fingers to open their nonphysical nonexistent eyelids... some people anchor themselves to the NP environment by tactile interaction... some rub their hands together and blow on them... ALL of these are metaphors... token rituals to perform an action that is rather 'out there' or 'supernatural' to the beginner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLu3 de 3n3rgy Posted July 31, 2012 #52 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I am so sorry but I simply can't concur with you on the third eye thing. I can only go on my own experiences and the experience of teaching people coupled with their feedback and results... but there is no need for any preparatory ritual for opening the third eyes, opening chakras or praying... in my experience (and I am not special in any sense of the word). I find that ritualistic belief based approach only adds to the mystery confronted by beginners and so leads them around blind corners and false starts. The process is simple but can very easily be embellished. Ok just to be clear, I don't talk about reptilians and what not, using the "repitle mind" was a metaphor of the ego consciousss which i understand a lot about. Secondly, I do not do belief systems, mystic made up stories to guide people into things or ritualistic routines. I am actually a huge advocate for people dumping their societal programming and belief systems and helping people to understand how their perceptions work and can be limited and tainted by holding onto belief systems. I won't knock all rituals though because rituals are simply techniques and methods, a structure to help a person transcend from point A to B and i am not going to knock someone if that is how their mind works in needing the aid of a ritual or technique. The third eye/pineal gland is nothing what so ever to do with "belief stories" or rituals lol, are you kidding? the chakra system is very real, and so is the pineal gland/third eye governing "perception" aka our looking glass/ astral eyes for non physical /astral realities and levels. Also I am not just disagreeing for the sake of it... I am just telling it as it is. This isn't my opinion. No you are not, and if you think your opinion is the fact here and what i am saying is 'not how it is', then how very arrogant and narrow minded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedeekin Posted July 31, 2012 #53 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) I said it was a metaphor... the reptilian thing... re-read. anyway... It is how it is for you... as it is how it is for me. I'm not being arrogant... or narrow minded. I gave many other examples of what other people use as metaphors... and I wasn't saying you were wrong. You find the third eye important... I don't so it works for me, therefor I don't consider it... and like I said I'm not special. I'm sorry you feel that way... I didn't mean to bruise your ego. Edited July 31, 2012 by Bedeekin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLu3 de 3n3rgy Posted July 31, 2012 #54 Share Posted July 31, 2012 That is the second time you have made presumptions about me. It's these presumptions you make that i am correcting. No ego involved on my part. I find that ritualistic belief based approach only adds to the mystery confronted by beginners and so leads them around blind corners and false starts. The process is simple but can very easily be embellished. I'm not the one making false presumptions about other peoples methods or how they teach. I am going to correct anyone who classifies the chakra system and pineal gland method as "leading people around blind corners and false starts". Just telling you that you are wrong about that, because you state that you are telling it how it is, well you are not. I don't have any problems if you don't like or approve of the chakra/pineal gland method, but since you insist on classifying it as something that it is not, from whatever pre conceived ideas you hold on it which are wrong, then that is not helpful at all for other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted July 31, 2012 #55 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Ok..... So what exactly is the difference between phasing and the sp method. I have done many things OOB and the description between the two methods seems strikingly similar to me. In my tutorial at the beginning of the pinned thread, what method am I describing. It's entirely experiential in methodology, I did not draw off any other sources. I think it's wrong for any of us to prescribe what's right or not right when it comes to this practice. Our minds are so subjective. I don't fully understand the chakra system either, but it has worked for many people. I also don't understand this phasing. I worry that people dilute themselves into thinking that their imaginative experiences are real OOBES. Those of us that know better hate when people take imaginative "shamanic journeys" and pass it off as what we experience. The non experiential world thinks we are nuts anyway. Who are we to start placing dogmas and skipping down the road of empiricism within experiences witch can be nothing other than anecdotal. I don't doubt the chakra system, or any other for that matter. I can separate from my body ... Who am I to claim what's right wrong or what is authoritative. The one thing that I will claim is that I think the ultimate reality is beyond all of us. Even us projectors. Attaching claims that one things works more than another when another may work better for a different kind of person is a mistake. It's the lesson of Bruce lee. Do what's best for your body type. Styles, methods, sequence are only guides... Outlines so that we may have it easier filling in the the body ourselves. Edited July 31, 2012 by Seeker79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedeekin Posted August 1, 2012 #56 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm not saying it's wrong... it just isn't important for learning OOBEs... It is to you and that's fine. I don't use these methods or promote them... and that is fine is it not? So many people have come to me limping and bruised from trying the spiritualist approach to OOBEs. I just like to see people get results and come up with their own experiences instead of having to set up a belief system before they experience anything. It is actually closed minded to constrain the activities within the nonphysical based upon a chakra system. Of course... it's there if you want it... or if you believe it can help. Any metaphor helps. Seeker79 The non experiential world is crossing over these days methinks. There are things happening in neurology and quantum science that is starting to shift the understanding of the nature of reality. It's just slow to come. See... I don't experience anyone thinking I'm nuts when I explain OOBEs. Especially work buddies. I simply tell them how to do it... they experience it... and a few are really getting into it. They don't think I'm nuts because I never use the terms "Astral Projection" "third Eye" "spirit Guides" "Akashic Records" "chakras" "Spirit" "demons" or "Bigfoot". If I use the term Astral Projection they glaze over. I give them a sleep pattern and a little thing to do when they lay down and it happens. What they believe after that is their subjectivity and it's up to them to prove its reality. I hope you see what I mean... I'm not saying this is wrong and that is right. Only what seems to work damn fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted August 1, 2012 #57 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm not saying it's wrong... it just isn't important for learning OOBEs... It is to you and that's fine. I don't use these methods or promote them... and that is fine is it not? So many people have come to me limping and bruised from trying the spiritualist approach to OOBEs. I just like to see people get results and come up with their own experiences instead of having to set up a belief system before they experience anything. It is actually closed minded to constrain the activities within the nonphysical based upon a chakra system. Of course... it's there if you want it... or if you believe it can help. Any metaphor helps. Seeker79 The non experiential world is crossing over these days methinks. There are things happening in neurology and quantum science that is starting to shift the understanding of the nature of reality. It's just slow to come. See... I don't experience anyone thinking I'm nuts when I explain OOBEs. Especially work buddies. I simply tell them how to do it... they experience it... and a few are really getting into it. They don't think I'm nuts because I never use the terms "Astral Projection" "third Eye" "spirit Guides" "Akashic Records" "chakras" "Spirit" "demons" or "Bigfoot". If I use the term Astral Projection they glaze over. I give them a sleep pattern and a little thing to do when they lay down and it happens. What they believe after that is their subjectivity and it's up to them to prove its reality. I hope you see what I mean... I'm not saying this is wrong and that is right. Only what seems to work damn fine. I do see your point. I just tell those not in certain circles it's lucid dreaming and let them research and figure what they want to about it. I'll tell you this though. The major thing that have learned after falling into this all those years ago is to not discount things or prescribe to dogmas. I have seen and experienced things ( as Im sure you have) that most of the world just cannot understand. If chakras or big foot is what gets you there then so be it. I am not one to be saying what's real for another or a dead end or whatever. I don't understand or use chakras... Yet. But have value in the labels in more than a few occasions. Are you a materialist projector? It's all just brain chemistry? I have only met one other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLu3 de 3n3rgy Posted August 1, 2012 #58 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) I'm not saying it's wrong... it just isn't important for learning OOBEs... It is to you and that's fine. I don't use these methods or promote them... and that is fine is it not? Only in "your opinion" do you think it's not important for learning to project. But if you use the phasing method which you said you did, then you are using your pineal gland/third eye. It is not a "belief story" or a "belief system" that the pineal gland is where perception for all senses in the non physical and dreaming stages is handled. It's my opinion that the chakra system is automatically involved with projection because 1. we project with our subtle/astral bodies 2. energy activation is in shifting awareness to the subtle bodies and levels (vibrations, spinning, actually seeing your energy/astral body or it separate from your physical body is all connected to the chakra system as well. For you to call the chakra system and pineal gland/third eye a "belief system" (which it is not) then you must be rejecting that the subtle bodies exist, that there is no energy activation or shift involved for consciousness, that you have never experienced or perceived for yourself the route and pathways that energy shifts and flows through the body when the energy body is activated, or what it feels like to have a blockage ? Let me ask, do you know how to feel energy, your energy ? other peoples energy ? Do you know what the first hand experience is to be empathic or clairsentient ? If the answer is yes then you are experiencing the chakra system and pineal gland/third eye. If your answer is no, then stop calling everything you haven't experienced a "belief system" - The "belief" or schemas you have inherited over what should be classifyed as a belief system is limiting, which is why i take issue with you calling the chakra system a "belief system" and your underhand approach of wrongly relaying that using the energetic level of awareness and knowledge is leading people around blind corners or giving them false starts. That's rubbish. So many people have come to me limping and bruised from trying the spiritualist approach to OOBEs. I don't see what this has to do with the chakra system and third eye/pineal gland ? I don't think you understand that the chakra system and third eye/pineal gland is more than just a spiritualist approach. People who have spiritual issues /experiences and interpret them as such and who are on a spiritual path will do regardless what method they use. You are connecting and lumping things together that fit your biased perceptions towards anything construed as a spiritual approach. The chakra system and pineal gland is a real tangible part of us which can be experienced, is experienced just for being there. Thousands upon thousands of people experience feeling their energy and working with it. There is no belief system around it or in activating it. Do people attach stories, metaphors and spiritual practices to exploring it ? yes of course they do, that happens in metaphysics all over the field, but the mechanism of the actual chakra system and pineal gland stand alone, is a very real thing to experience and has a very real purpose. You can even experience it's existence in an projected state if you are unable to on the physical level. I just like to see people get results and come up with their own experiences instead of having to set up a belief system before they experience anything. It is actually closed minded to constrain the activities within the nonphysical based upon a chakra system. Of course... it's there if you want it... or if you believe it can help. Any metaphor helps. Then stop branding the things you haven't raw experience with or understand as "belief systems" - it's misinformation and that is not helpful one iota. You are assuming too much. If you had taken the time to read any of the extensive threads around here you would see that everyone helping one another around here has the same goals and a whole lot more. You are not saying anything new here. Edited August 1, 2012 by bLu3 de 3n3rgy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 1, 2012 Author #59 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Ok so i feel like doing lucid dreaming first. Whats the best free eBook / or music to do this? ,And thanks for the info again Edited August 1, 2012 by kevink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedeekin Posted August 1, 2012 #60 Share Posted August 1, 2012 You are not saying anything new here. Oh I am aware of that! Very aware. Nothing is new here. Nothing. Even my same old method is still on the first page of threads... Nothing new is said... nothing new has been done... Nothing has moved forward within the last 20 years... There's only more people trying to do it and more people not being able to do it. More theories... more descriptions about what you can do and not do. More opinions... or rather uneducated non-experiential opinions and beliefs. More confusion. More ridicule. Ive been having this 'discussion' since I came online and teaching. Nothing new is being said by both you or I. Something happened to me metaphysically and in doing so transformed me physically a year gone may 1st. A really big thing... something that seemed to be a eukranium (Karma) based payment for all the work I've put into helping others and the non-physical exploration I have done for the last 2 decades. This happened with no prior belief system or knowledge of chakras. So through that it has proved to me that Spiritual transformation leading to physical manifestation can be achieved without any occult or new age philosophy. It is just natural. If Chakra work or energy work was important... how did I manage to transform my physical self and well being without any knowledge of its workings. This is a genuine question and I really want to know. At the other end of the spectrum... this awakening forced me to become inactive on the internet. During this time the main site I posted in went down. Thousands of posts lost... student base... lost. Maybe I have decided to 'come back' and am too forthright with my 'opinions'. I mis handled the politics here and for that I apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedeekin Posted August 1, 2012 #61 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Kevink... Lucid Dream Exchange is a great site... http://www.dreaminglucid.com/ The book by Robert is one of the best out there... Also... http://dreamstudies.org Ryan Hurd was the advisor to Chris Nolan on inception. Both of these are great resources. The first thing you probably need is a dream diary. http://www.astralpul...28.0.html;wap2= Edited August 1, 2012 by Bedeekin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted August 1, 2012 #62 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Oh I am aware of that! Very aware. Nothing is new here. Nothing. You mean nothing for you... Don't you Bedeekin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLu3 de 3n3rgy Posted August 1, 2012 #63 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Something happened to me metaphysically and in doing so transformed me physically a year gone may 1st. A really big thing... something that seemed to be a eukranium (Karma) based payment for all the work I've put into helping others and the non-physical exploration I have done for the last 2 decades. This happened with no prior belief system or knowledge of chakras. So through that it has proved to me that Spiritual transformation leading to physical manifestation can be achieved without any occult or new age philosophy. It is just natural. I have never once said that one needs a belief system to 'awaken' or do any of this. I have constantly stated that belief systems hold people back, and are the reason why many hit the glass ceiling or go into metaphysics riddled with fear based complications. I intimately know the process of how belief systems breakdown when one does awaken, and perceives a reality without these 'programs' and 'constructs'. Some can't handle it and go back to sleep, others embrace it knowing they have finally stepped into their true form. Your awakening is personal to you and how it happened is unique for you, no two individuals experience the same thing in this regard, right ? My awakening was unique and very personal to me and the circumstances around mine, well, i haven't seen anyone mirror what i went through. What i experienced profoundly didn't come from belief systems or dogma. It actually came around a time when my life couldn't have been more upside down. You know, part of this is having the compassion and respect to recognise that not everyone experiences or is meant to as you do. If someone's awakening for them is the result of breaking down all their barriers and their pre conceived beliefs, then that is a truly profound experience for someone to have. Maybe for them that is how it was to be because they needed to learn something or they chose it to be that way. For someone else their awakening may be about breaking down their ego and learning that ego does not control everyone and the consciousness. We don't know what kind of life each person may have had or what issues life has led them to metaphysics or been thrown at them to fuel their growth? we have no idea what so ever unless we sit down and ask questions. But the worse most arrogant thing possible is to just blindly assume or make pre judgements on what is going on with a person and what is shaping their perceptions/looking glass of the world. Not everything comes from a story or a belief driven system, but belief systems and dogma definitely pop up to capitalise on or control the masses with, once something becomes experienced or known. But experience is always where it starts and there is always an element of raw experience to anyone in what they are conveying, and that is the part you want to bring out and empathise with in people. Right from the start you excersied that on me, i recognise it when it happens and you failed to pick up from my responses that should have been enough to show that i was talking from raw experience, not book smarts or text knowledge. Your mind made was up that i was some sort of hippie new age occulist throwing out philosophies like a drone and you couldn't be further from the truth. If Chakra work or energy work was important... how did I manage to transform my physical self and well being without any knowledge of its workings. This is a genuine question and I really want to know. Who knows ??? and who is to say that it won't come into your reality one day? maybe it never will and that is fine too. You know we are all made up for different roles here, putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. Energy work and healing work is not for everyone and i would be the first to say that. But for some people that is where their natural understanding or talent lays, just like mine was and so for those who are already hooked up to the energetic awareness, and living with feeling raw energy/energies day in day out, or activate it by the simple action of trying to astral project, then there is a place for energy awareness related methods. And no none of this is a narrative from a text book, or playing pretend that we should pretend there is this chakra system on our body. This is how you are viewing it, but it is not what is happening. The way i talk about energy related things is from total complete raw experience. No books and if the method doesn't gel with a person that is fine, it's not for them, and there are plenty of other methods they can try. For me ever since a child i have known what energy is, and had a innate connection to sensing the energies around me and of others and talking to the deceased. People call it empathy and clairsentiance as well, not my labels obviously, but as a child i just knew it as energy and there being more than just a physical level of consciousness and awareness. I have never been religious, i have never followed the teachings of any group or cult, nor started my own group. I don't need or use structured belief systems or worship to explore metaphysics and my own personal journey.. But do i recognise that in order to communicate effectively with people and productively, sometimes you have to resort to metaphors and metaphors that they will explicitly understand. Language needs to be used appropriately to find a middle ground of understanding so that information can be shared and imparted with meaning, and it is another thing completely to start insisting your terminology and goal posts on people. I get it, that from reading your discussion on the virtual reality thread that your perspective is influenced by quantum theories and you like to relate language wise like a computer or a empirical program. And for a percentage of people they will absolutely love that and really be able to relate to how you express your comprehension on things. For others, that kind of language will go way over their heads and for others they many want a more "soul" related perspective. And that is fine too. There is literately hundreds of different ways to convey the exact same thing and being that human nature is so diverse there is room for hundreds and hundreds of methods, metaphors and techniques. Edited August 2, 2012 by bLu3 de 3n3rgy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectralEdge Posted August 2, 2012 #64 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Why can you take three children and give them the exact same task and they will never complete it in the same way or in the same amount of time. Because they make small choices, or are not as good at the task, or don't like the task...or whatever. In the end the result you get may not be exactly what you wanted but they finished the task (in their minds). Considering none of us truly knows what our task is, or what the end result expected of us is, or even if all of our tasks are the same, or even if there is a task, using the same tools to get the job done doesn't make much sense. But then, disregarding a freely available tool out of hand simply because you did not use it, does not make much sense either. You might not need a sponge to rake the yard, but you will be happy for it come time to do the dishes. As with all things in life YMMV (your mileage may vary), meaning, don't expect your trip to be exactly the same as anyone elses. Edited August 2, 2012 by SpectralEdge 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 17, 2012 Author #65 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) What am i suppose to see when astral projecting? And still haven't done it I'm starting to set my alarm at 3am 5am 7am and get up at 10:30am. i'm using this on my last week of summer before school. What should i do during these times? Just go back to sleep? Edited August 17, 2012 by kevink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 18, 2012 Author #66 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Ok right now I feel my legs vabrating or it's my blood moving fast :/ It feels somewhat light and worm, and I only feel it in my lags. Well It's gone now but in the middle of it my right foot feels cold :/ Edited August 18, 2012 by kevink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 21, 2012 Author #67 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Hey guys so I think I had an OBE but I'm not sure.. So I was in a dream can't remember what it was about but I think I came out of the dream somehow and then I felt like I was on the edge of my bed trying to get in my body I think. I could not see anything it was all black. So I got scared thinking the something might get me if I dont get back in, and just thought about myself going in my body and then I woke up.. Again I do not know if I had a dream about wanting to astral project. I remembered this one but not any of my dreams I had last night. Edited August 21, 2012 by kevink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 21, 2012 Author #68 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I just remembered that i think i was on my knees but could not stand up like the other obe I had were i could not feel my other half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLu3 de 3n3rgy Posted August 21, 2012 #69 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sounds like you took a peek out of your body. The blackness and fear of something in that blackness that might get you, is you experiencing the trigger of "fear of the unknown." It is the most primal and primitive reaction that comes from your "reptile" brain. This is something every being has to overcome. You have to learn to bypass it, or face it. The fear level activates because your perceptions are "blind" and cannot understand or perceive your surroundings. This is where people end up perceiving all sorts of fear based "programming" because if there is 'no data input' of what is truly there, the ego part of the mind kicks in as a fall back system, filling the blanks in from ingrained belief systems/ societal programming. In other words, don't let the fear of nothing, or blackness shape your experience. It's ok to perceive nothing and blackness for a while. If you can relax in that state and focus on projecting out of that blackness and remain from a calm perspective you will get past that level of blackness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted August 21, 2012 #70 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Yes don't let that blackness worry you. many experience it nothing bad happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 23, 2012 Author #71 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I know that nothing can hurt me but i guess my sub conscience doesn't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted August 23, 2012 #72 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I know that nothing can hurt me but i guess my sub conscience doesn't know? Learn to Cultivate a calm observers perspective as if you were watching a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 23, 2012 Author #73 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'll keep trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted August 23, 2012 Author #74 Share Posted August 23, 2012 How would i train myself to leave my dream and astral project from there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretinvader Posted August 23, 2012 #75 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is it easy to astral if one is tired since it is easy to get relaxed when you lay down??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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