New JFK Assassination Lecture

[Antilles]

So much evidence has been presented that the Warren Commission was wrong, that it is completely discredited. As far as I'm concerned, they are the ones who have to prove their case now, and without ignoring or suppressing all the new evidence that has been found since 1964.

Great post. It should be prove the 'official' version.

[Antilles]

I believe the original conclusion stands as the truth because the evidence shows it to be the truth.

No my friend, you're wrong. The Warren Commission was wrong.

And I am one of the growing number of people who think that if you believe the Warren Commission was correct then prove it.

Not the other way around.

After almost 50 years, I think we can handle the truth.

[TheMacGuffin]

Mark Lane's Rush to Judgment is an interesting documentary from the 1960s, which pointed out a number of discrepancies and falsehoods in the Warren Commission report. The Dallas police and FBI reported that Oswald's hands and cheek had gunpowder residue, but this turned out to be false. The bus driver who supposedly reported that Oswald was riding the bus back from the assassination could not identify him at all, and in fact the rider turned out to be a completely different person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHaMxA5w4_Y&feature=player_detailpage

Edited August 13, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

And Jim Garrison was one of the first to figure out the CIA connections of Oswald and Clay Shaw, which was being covered up. We now have a declassified document from 1957 that Oswald was trained by the CIA before his bogus "defection" to Russia.

[TheMacGuffin]

This document from 1964 proves that Oswald was a trained intelligence agent, not a defector or "lone nut" assassin, and this information was withheld from the public, and even the Warren Commission. We can thank Oliver Stone and Jim Garrison for finally getting key documents like this one declassified, decades after the fact. There are other documents that prove Oswald was a paid FBI informer after he returned to the U.S. from Russia.

Once again, this is the type of things that proves the official explanation for the JFK assassination is false--completely false.

Edited August 14, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

These pictures of Oswald were fakes, and some were probably created after the assassination. Some copies of the pictures were found long after the fact, and were not even taken by the same cameras. The handwriting found on one of the pictures was not that of Oswald or his wife. Even the camera supposedly found a couple of weeks after the assassination did not belong to Oswald, and for that matter it did not function at all.

[media=]

[/media]

Edited August 14, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[Guest]

Nice thread.

There is good evidence that Bush Snr ordered the assassination because of the Cuba invasion debacle. I will attempt to find the documentary which lays out the case and post it if I can.

Br Cornelius

[Antilles]

These pictures of Oswald were fakes, and some were probably created after the assassination. Some copies of the pictures were found long after the fact, and were not even taken by the same cameras. The handwriting found on one of the pictures was not that of Oswald or his wife. Even the camera supposedly found a couple of weeks after the assassination did not belong to Oswald, and for that matter it did not function at all.

[media=]

[/media]

Damn straight that photo of Oswald is doctored. But even if it wasn't, Oswald was not the lone assassin.

[Antilles]

This document from 1964 proves that Oswald was a trained intelligence agent, not a defector or "lone nut" assassin, and this information was withheld from the public, and even the Warren Commission. We can thank Oliver Stone and Jim Garrison for finally getting key documents like this one declassified, decades after the fact. There are other documents that prove Oswald was a paid FBI informer after he returned to the U.S. from Russia.

Once again, this is the type of things that proves the official explanation for the JFK assassination is false--completely false.

Oswald did not defect to Russia on a whim or because he was tired of the US. I am really over that line of argument. It does not support the facts. He was a trained CIA operative although by the end, I doubt he knew exactly who his masters were.

Thanks for posting this.

[FurthurBB]

Damn straight that photo of Oswald is doctored. But even if it wasn't, Oswald was not the lone assassin.

Also, what about that picture that sure looks like Oswald at the front door of the book depository. There are too many weird things about this one that don't add up. It could have just been mistakes, rush to judgement, and no trial to bring out evidence instead of a conspiracy. Then maybe the whole Warren commission thing was just to covert up ineptitude.

[Guest]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Z71SWupC4

Br Cornelius Edited August 14, 2012 by Guest

[WoIverine]

Sometimes I wonder where we would be if JFK had finished his term, and then had a successful second one as well. Would we even have this national debt, had he switched us to silver backs? It seems like a lot of the hard work he has done has now been undone. Especially if Putin's recent comments concerning Cuba are taken into account.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Spid3rCyd3

[Guest]

This one is quite telling - why at the funeral of ex-president Ford did Bush smirk when recalling the death of Kennedy and then dwell on the warren report in his eulogy;

[media=]

[/media]

Bush forgets where he was on the day of JFK assassination;

Br Cornelius

Edited August 14, 2012 by Guest

[Anonymous User]

Also, what about that picture that sure looks like Oswald at the front door of the book depository. There are too many weird things about this one that don't add up.

If anyone, the conspiracy theorists have made a mess of the assassination, not the other way around. My investigations haven't been as rigorous in comparison to other investigators, but I have certainly seen enough to know that there is a whole lot of misinformation still being publicized. Some people have claimed there were up to 10 people with rifles in deadly plaza at the time of the assassination, others have said the assassin was hiding in the gutter to the right of JFK and took the shot.. I have even seen one person claim the man sitting in-front of JFK took the shot with a pistol. The picture that apparently shows "Oswald" in-front of the depositary is just another one of those things that have been shown incorrect by basic human error. I will give whoever pointed out the look-alike a little credit though, the man seen is easily mistakable for Oswald. It's just that people (Especially conspiracy theorists) want there to be some giant mystery behind the shooting; they don't want to accept the conclusive shooter because looking at other alternatives (e.g the grassy knoll) brings more excitement to the case.

Thorough debunking of the man seen in-front of the book depository:

http://mcadams.posc....ald_doorway.htm

- - -

I can't watch the video this thread is about so my opinion probably won't mean much but given you have said.. "None of the warren commissions report is true" -- Now that's quite a large claim to make and would require an extraordinary amount of counter evidence, but I will wait until I have usage to spare to make a further comment on that.

This however.. something I consider myself pretty informed about seems incredibly unlikely:

"Oswald was not on the 6th floor of the School Book Depository when the shooting took place"

Two of Oswald co-workers which were on the 5th floor at the time reported hearing 3 shots above them. Pictures were even taken of them seconds after the shooting leaning out the window pointing up to the area they heard the shots come from. Close analysis of footage filming the building a short period before the shots were taken shows movement in the window Oswald took the shots from. The rifle Oswald had purchased months/weeks before (Going from memory here) was found in a little "nest" of boxes which has been set up for the purpose of balancing the rifle and blocking anyone on the same floor from seeing him sitting there. Since Oswald worked at the building and reportedly got to work early that morning, he would of easily had access and time to arrange the boxes into place. Bullet shells were also found because Oswald wouldn't of had much time to evacuate the building since attention was drawn... Point being-- the evidence points strongly towards Oswald being the shooter, and I don't have much faith in the video making a stronger case against him by substituting a mystery man.

I have heard things about the bullets not matching up, and even a bullet being found at the grassy knoll, but I don't know enough about that to make a proper comment.

- - -

One last edit: About the backyard photographs being apparent fakes for whatever reason, Oswald's wife confessed to having taken them and before hand, photographic experts purely from analysis of the actual photographs came to a conclusion about what type of camera they were likely taken from and it happened to be the one Oswald's wife owned.

Just putting what I have heard out there. I think the apparent photographs being "faked" idea was brought up by people looking for something else to pick at.

Major source of my knowledge for anyone curious: "Who was Less Harvey Oswald?" the documentary. Highly recommended.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Thomas J

[Anonymous User]

ALSO (You've really got me going now) I would like to paraphrase the end of the documentary which I thought was a very valid point: "The question isn't who shot John.F Kennedy, it's a matter of were they involved with anyone? Oswald is the only one that can answer that question, but his answer will always be silence."

For someone so young he had certainly been involved with a lot of government business, The soviet union, he was being monitored by the CIA(?) I believe.. serious stuff for a young man. I personally believe he was self-motivated because of political reasons being a Marxist and resentful towards capitalism, but a conspiracy is still up for discussion.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Thomas J

[TheMacGuffin]

There are at least four of those backyard pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald, taken with at least two different cameras. One was found in the possessions of a CIA agent and another in the hands of a Dallas police officer who later admitted complicity in the assassination. One of the pictures had handwriting on it that called Oswald the "killer of fascists" only it was not his writing or Marina's. It has never been identified, but it was on the picture that belonged to the CIA guy.

This is just more of the type of thing that proves there had to be more people involved in the JFK assassination. There is simply no other explanation.

[Anonymous User]

The picture you're thinking of read "Killer of fascists ha ha ha!" in Russian. Oswald sent this photograph to his friend George which if I remember correctly was someone he met in school/college over in the soviet union. Being the egomaniac that he was, he was kind of "boasting" prior to the killing as he had been planing this for quite some time. Just because Marina took the photos it doesn't mean we should only expect to find her hand writing-- Oswald developed the photos himself for one thing.

"This is just more of the type of thing that proves there had to be more people involved in the JFK assassination."

I think you're interpreting something that isn't really strange in order to fit the idea that the CIA was involved.

It's possible, but the photograph being in possession of an officer and agent isn't evidence for a conspiracy. Oswald was being monitored by the CIA all along remember, they were the good guys looking of to see if he was involved with any criminal activity. (It was something to do with an American wanting to go to the soviet union.. don't quite remember.) Them having possession of the photograph isn't odd in the slightest, and if I remember correctly while Oswald was going to college/school in Russia the CIA had spoken to his friend and informed him that he was a "suspect" which could explain why the photo sent to George ended up in the CIA's hands.

Edit: Here's the photo I found:

Edited August 15, 2012 by Thomas J

[TheMacGuffin]

The picture you're thinking of read "Killer of fascists ha ha ha!" in Russian. Oswald sent this photograph to his friend George which if I remember correctly was someone he met in school/college over in the soviet union. Being the egomaniac that he was, he was kind of "boasting" prior to the killing as he had been planing this for quite some time. Just because Marina took the photos it doesn't mean we should only expect to find her hand writing-- Oswald developed the photos himself for one thing.

No, that's not true. One picture was found in the possessions of his "friend" George de Mohrenschildt, who was a CIA agent. He also admitted involvement in the JFK assassination before his suicide (or murder) in 1977. He was put under considerable pressure not to talk, and even wrote to his "friend" CIA Director George H.W. Bush to ask for help. It was not taken with the same camera and the writing on it was never identified.

You either don't know much about the assassination or you are assuming that I don't.

Edited August 16, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[Anonymous User]

No, that's not true. One picture was found in the possessions of his "friend" George de Mohrenschildt, who was a CIA agent. He also admitted involvement in the JFK assassination before his suicide (or murder) in 1977. He was put under considerable pressure not to talk, and even wrote to his "friend" CIA Director George H.W. Bush to ask for help. It was not taken with the same camera and the writing on it was never identified.

You either don't know much about the assassination or you are assuming that I don't.

Apologises about staying you're trying to make the evidence fit with the CIA, I actually meant to say involvement. Still, no need to be rude. I haven't assumed anything and I mentioned in my previous posts that a large amount of my information source came from a single documentary I watched some time ago. This is mainly memory.

Clearly I am mistaken about the recipient of the photograph, it was just a rough connection and the name rang a bell. This is new information to me.

[+and-then]

I'd be more amazed if it was the ONLY coup in 180 years......

[TheMacGuffin]

Apologises about staying you're trying to make the evidence fit with the CIA, I actually meant to say involvement. Still, no need to be rude. I haven't assumed anything and I mentioned in my previous posts that a large amount of my information source came from a single documentary I watched some time ago. This is mainly memory.

Clearly I am mistaken about the recipient of the photograph, it was just a rough connection and the name rang a bell. This is new information to me.

And Roscoe White had another one of these backyard pictures of Oswald. He was a Dallas police officer who not only admitted to being involved in the assassination, but claimed that he was one of the people shooting at him. I don't know if he was, but he was far from being an innocent bystander in these events. The fact that these people also had copies of the pictures makes their true origin even more suspicious.

[Antilles]

Mac, while you and I basically look at the assassination from the same angle, I don't agree about Roscoe White. Have a read and let me know what you think.

http://dperry1943.com/roscoew.html

[TheMacGuffin]

Another of the strange people involved in the JFK assassination was Richard Case Nagell, who fired three shots into the wall of a bank in El Paso, Texas on September 20, 1963 and waited to be arrested. He said that JFK was going to be assassinated and that he intended to be in federal custody when it occurred so he wouldn't be a patsy. In addition, Nagell said that he and Oswald were both intelligence agents who had been sent behind the Iron Curtain as fake defectors, and it turned out that he did work for Army Intelligence.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CD4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maryferrell.org%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%2FRichard_Case_Nagell_-_The_Man_Who_Knew_Too_Much&ei=iLUuUJyaJI6a9QSS44DICg&usg=AFQjCNGaYnafRC2LdQYhQJNdwF0wjO0hAQ&sig2=UTD1n9M_q_HSUkHv2sqzEg

Edited August 17, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

[TheMacGuffin]

Mac, while you and I basically look at the assassination from the same angle, I don't agree about Roscoe White. Have a read and let me know what you think.

http://dperry1943.com/roscoew.html

It's true that most of what we know about Roscoe White came from his son Ricky, years after his father died in 1971. I agree that there's no way to prove that he was one of the shooters--or who any of them were--although he really did have one of those backyard pictures of Oswald for some reason. He was a Dallas police officer at the time of the assassination, and was in the Marines at the same time as Oswald--and in the same general area. That's a few too many coincidences, although we may never be sure about all the details of his involvement.

I do wonder how he ended up with one of those Oswald pictures, which I'm convinced were fakes, basically used to frame the patsy. If the Richard Nagell story is true, he was the only patsy with a similar background who was considered for that role.

[Antilles]

Another of the strange people involved in the JFK assassination was Richard Case Nagell, who fired three shots into the wall of a bank in El Paso, Texas on September 20, 1963 and waited to be arrested. He said that JFK was going to be assassinated and that he intended to be in federal custody when it occurred so he wouldn't be a patsy. In addition, Nagell said that he and Oswald were both intelligence agents who had been sent behind the Iron Curtain as fake defectors, and it turned out that he did work for Army Intelligence.

http://www.google.co..._q_HSUkHv2sqzEg

Never heard of this guy before. September 20 - around a month before the assassination. The article doesn't mention this: was he kept in custody through November or if not, was he released before JFK was killed? Also, is there any 3rd party independent evidence that Nagell actually knew Oswald?

I think you're right on the money about the photos of Oswald. They are fake and they prove there was a conspiracy to at least include Oswald in JFK's murder.