The Global Gun Control Threat

[Babe Ruth]

The UN doesn't care about our gun anything.

The US Constitution Article 1, Section 9 states, "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

So, I ask... how will Martial Law be declared? Neither the president nor congress can do so, unless the above exceptions are met. Doing so would be considered treasonous, and possibly a declaration of war against the citizens. And if UN troops were brought in, it would absolutely be considered an invasion by a foreign military, and under the Rules of Land Warfare, we would be well within our rights to repell them.

Keep in mind that the most recent NDAA amendment effectively suspends Habeas Corpus. That is, by legislative fiat, the government has suspended Habeas.

Keep in mind that the Unpatriot Act and its several extensions effectively nullifies the Fourth Amendment by way of National Security Letters.

So, if your point is that the government honors the rule of law, or governs in accordance with the US Constitution, you're quite wrong about that.

[Corp]

Why does the UN even care about our gun rights? Maybe because our government did a study to see how many of our own military would fire on US citizens.The results were overwhelmingly no way. So if /when the US declares marshall law they are bringing in UN troops to "contain" us. They have been training them near here for years. They have maps of what they call hot spots which show basicly where they'll have fight on their hands. We have the second amendment to protect ourselves from just such things. As for assault riffles, thats exactly what they meant (well if they had them then). It keeps us from being overrun by our government.Otherwise we don't stand a chance.

As it's been noted the UN doesn't give a damn about American gun laws. What they care about is the illegal gun trade and how international efforts could be made to stop it, efforts that have been going on for more than a decade. Some overly paranoid Americans saw this, decided that this was targetted directly at the Second Amendment even though it doesn't in anyway, and foolishly freaked out. Likewise UN troops (there's no such thing btw) are not training to contain American citizens. Shockingly America is not the centre of the universe and the UN has far more important matters to worry about. Surpressing the freedom of Americans for no reason at all is way down on the list. It's below 'setting the world record for longest string of high fives'. You're worrying yourself over nothing.

[DONTEATUS]

Really? And you have empirical evidence to support this?

Yes Look at the Deaths ! Or better yet Look at post #51 that Czero posted ! Do the numbers mean anything to you ?

[MstrMsn]

Keep in mind that the most recent NDAA amendment effectively suspends Habeas Corpus. That is, by legislative fiat, the government has suspended Habeas.

Keep in mind that the Unpatriot Act and its several extensions effectively nullifies the Fourth Amendment by way of National Security Letters.

So, if your point is that the government honors the rule of law, or governs in accordance with the US Constitution, you're quite wrong about that.

Did I ever say anything about the government following the rule of law? Nope.

The NDAA does not supercede the US Constitution, nor can any Executive Order (and NDAA is an EO, not amendment). Also, look at the wording of the NDAA - strict requirements, just like Martial Law (though, the requirements differ - because they are different things).

Also, before the Patriot Act (while I don't agree with it, I will use the proper wording as to not show ignorance or arrogance - take your pick) there was an Act called FISA - which basically allowed LEOs to circumvent the 4th, for the same reasons.

[MstrMsn]

Yes Look at the Deaths ! Or better yet Look at post #51 that Czero posted ! Do the numbers mean anything to you ?

OMG!!! The deaths...wait, the numbers provided there are not all deaths.

Also, nothing on that says anything about Automatic weapons. So, I will ask this one last time.... where is your emperical evidence?

[Babe Ruth]

Did I ever say anything about the government following the rule of law? Nope.

The NDAA does not supercede the US Constitution, nor can any Executive Order (and NDAA is an EO, not amendment). Also, look at the wording of the NDAA - strict requirements, just like Martial Law (though, the requirements differ - because they are different things).

Also, before the Patriot Act (while I don't agree with it, I will use the proper wording as to not show ignorance or arrogance - take your pick) there was an Act called FISA - which basically allowed LEOs to circumvent the 4th, for the same reasons.

I guess an incomplete picture is better than no picture at all, but your statement regarding FISA is very incomplete, suggesting ignorance of the subject matter. Under FISA, the feds can make searches WITHOUT a warrant, but they must inform and apply to the FISA court, which is a special court, within a specific time frame, I think 48 hours of the time of the warrantless search. Then the court rules either for or against the search. Way less than 1% of cases are rejected by the court.

FISA II, passed when Obama was a mere Senator, also granted immunity to the various telecomm companies who had done the dirty work for the NSA during Bush's administration.

No, I do not respect the UNpatriot Act. It is not legitimate law. Neither I nor librarians have any obligation to obey a fraudulent law. They had the courage to take action in that regard, and I admire them for it.

[Obviousman]

And yet another gun incident. How many Americans must die before the Americans themselves say "enough"?

[Babe Ruth]

How many gun casualties does Australia have anymore?

[DONTEATUS]

OMG!!! The deaths...wait, the numbers provided there are not all deaths.

Also, nothing on that says anything about Automatic weapons. So, I will ask this one last time.... where is your emperical evidence?

The evidence and IT is emperical indeed is in the news every hour on our planet ! ITs time to change the way we think !

[MstrMsn]

The evidence and IT is emperical indeed is in the news every hour on our planet ! ITs time to change the way we think !

And you know who has the automatic weapons? The CRIMINALS. War Lords. Tyrannical governmental leaders. 3rd world countries that have no laws regulating firearms (though, if we take them away from the civilians, they'll be massacred by the war lords and tyrannical government leaders - FACT).

You are being idiotic in your statements. You need to actually educate yourself about firearms facts, and no from liberally biased sources - actual firearms experts.

[DONTEATUS]

And you know who has the automatic weapons? The CRIMINALS. War Lords. Tyrannical governmental leaders. 3rd world countries that have no laws regulating firearms (though, if we take them away from the civilians, they'll be massacred by the war lords and tyrannical government leaders - FACT).

You are being idiotic in your statements. You need to actually educate yourself about firearms facts, and no from liberally biased sources - actual firearms experts.

My opinion is that People are whom Kill with these Guns !Get all the Fully Automatic weapons off the market,and deaths will drop. This is a Fact. THen the CRIMINALS and WAR LORDS as you speak,in whice Im sure you quiver in your bed at night in fear of ,Can then be caught and put to death when caught with said weapons ! Sounds EMPERICAL ? I think not ! Sounds Like a Plan ! Idiotic Only in your preception !

[DONTEATUS]

And yet another gun incident. How many Americans must die before the Americans themselves say "enough"?

I hear you Obviousman ! Looks like Way too many Americans Are still eattin Big-Macs and way too many of them ! It does effect the grey matter ! Stay away from the Big-Macs ! And AR -15`s

[Czero 101]

Reposting from the other thread on this topic:

I think this sums it all up fairly well...

US Army Gen. Stanly McChrystal (Ret) on Jon Stewart, Jan 8, 2013, talking gun control:

http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/#clip839838

Stewart: "You were talking about gun control and the issue that's at hand now. You obviously are in the Military, what is the general, you think, miltary position on that? Are they... They're in favour of a, I guess, a 2nd ammendment but perhaps not with the kind of technical advances that we've made, is that it?"

McChrystal: "Yeah I certainly can't speak for all military but if you've been on the battle field you've probably carried an M4 Carbine or something similar and it fires a .556 round at 3,000 feet per second and when it hits human flesh it does terrible damage. Its supposed to and that's what our soldiers should carry. I don't want them on our streets. I don't want them in our schools. I don't think that most people are prepared to carry those so I think we need to have a very very serious look at why we'd even would consider having guns like that available..."

And later:

McChrystal: "... As the power of weapons has exploded, you can give a single individual the power to do extraordinary damage, and so I just don't think you can give everybody the opportunity to do that 'cuz not everybody's got the responsibility, maturity and all those thing to do it. So I, I think as much as we'd like to say that everybody is capable of making very, very good decisions and self-control, I just don't think you can do that."

So once again, just to reiterate and make it perfectly clear to the "Cold, Dead Handers" out there, this is not about taking away the right to own or carry guns. This is about restricting the kinds of weapons that are available to people who don't need to have them, making it harder to procure those weapons and / or ammunition for them, and keeping better track of the ones in possession of those who do or can own them.

Cz

[AsteroidX]

I dont care. Even having this conversation is abhorrent when guns are not cause of these shootings. Big Pharm is. Get real or get lost.

[DONTEATUS]

Reposting from the other thread on this topic:

I think this sums it all up fairly well...

US Army Gen. Stanly McChrystal (Ret) on Jon Stewart, Jan 8, 2013, talking gun control:

http://watch.thecome....ca/#clip839838

And later:

So once again, just to reiterate and make it perfectly clear to the "Cold, Dead Handers" out there, this is not about taking away the right to own or carry guns. This is about restricting the kinds of weapons that are available to people who don't need to have them, making it harder to procure those weapons and / or ammunition for them, and keeping better track of the ones in possession of those who do or can own them.

Cz

So SO ! True Czero 101 ! Wait until you get a reply from " MstrMsn" He`s gonna jump your $#@T and read you your rights,Flashing Blue Lights and all !

Sad but true our great country America is Full of Gun Lovin,totin,shootin,Killin ,peeps. Its just those Automatic multi-round mags and weapons like that that need to be out-lawed. Im all for having a hand gun ,to protect oneself,a few Hunting rifles,a stick,a rock, what ever turns your crank. But AR-15`s and beound ? Give this world a break ! We need more Laws to stop this runaway condition we have let ourselfs into.

Whats says you ? Is it not time to throttle back on the destructive way we are going?

Do you Have children "MstrMsn" ?

[Czero 101]

Nevermind....

Cz

Edited January 9, 2013 by Czero 101

[DONTEATUS]

I dont care. Even having this conversation is abhorrent when guns are not cause of these shootings. Big Pharm is. Get real or get lost.

How do you Like your brain matter splattered then AsteroidX ? Whats your solution ?

[MstrMsn]

My opinion is that People are whom Kill with these Guns !Get all the Fully Automatic weapons off the market,and deaths will drop. This is a Fact. THen the CRIMINALS and WAR LORDS as you speak,in whice Im sure you quiver in your bed at night in fear of ,Can then be caught and put to death when caught with said weapons ! Sounds EMPERICAL ? I think not ! Sounds Like a Plan ! Idiotic Only in your preception !

It is not a fact that deaths will drop if there are no fully automatic weapons. Full auto makes it EASIER, that's it, but you can still cause mass causualties and deaths with semi-automatic weapopns. And THAT is a fact.

Seriously, kid, you need to educate yourself. Like, a lot.

[MstrMsn]

So SO ! True Czero 101 ! Wait until you get a reply from " MstrMsn" He`s gonna jump your $#@T and read you your rights,Flashing Blue Lights and all !

Sad but true our great country America is Full of Gun Lovin,totin,shootin,Killin ,peeps. Its just those Automatic multi-round mags and weapons like that that need to be out-lawed. Im all for having a hand gun ,to protect oneself,a few Hunting rifles,a stick,a rock, what ever turns your crank. But AR-15`s and beound ? Give this world a break ! We need more Laws to stop this runaway condition we have let ourselfs into.

Whats says you ? Is it not time to throttle back on the destructive way we are going?

Do you Have children "MstrMsn" ?

I never said anything about allowing civilians to have access to full auto. So, you can cut the **** with that.

Banning ammo that can be used in full aotu weapons? Right, yeah, because they are the only weapons that use those rounds, right? Wrong. Bolt action hunting rifles use the same ammo as many full auto rifles. Well, what about full auto pistols? Yeah, they use the same ammo as semi-auto pistols.

The means by which people choose to kill each other is not the issue, and should not be the issue. What should be is that people are making a choice to take another's life. That's what needs focus.

And yeah, I did have a son. And a wife. Both were killed by a drunk driver. Anything else you want to know about me?

[Babe Ruth]

I dont care. Even having this conversation is abhorrent when guns are not cause of these shootings. Big Pharm is. Get real or get lost.

I totally agree with your criticism regarding the pharmaceutical aspects of the Sandy Hook incident, ASSUMING that the official story is true and accurate.

Frankly, there are so many inconsistencies with that story that I'm having serious doubts about it.

[Czero 101]

Bill Clinton: Gun control opposition ‘is nuts’

By Eric W. Dolan

Wednesday, January 9, 2013 19:19 EST

Former President Bill Clinton on Wednesday said those who opposed gun control measures like banning the sale of high-capacity magazines were crazy.

“I grew up in the hunting culture, but this is nuts,” he said during a speech at the Consumer Electronics Show. “Why does anybody need a 30 round clip for a gun? Why does anybody need one of those things that carries 100 bullets? The guy in Colorado had one of those.”

“Half of all mass killings in the United States have occurred since the assault weapons ban expired in 2005,” Clinton continued. “Half, in all of the history of the country. So I hope that former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) and other people who stepped up after the Newtown tragedy will have some impact on this.”

The former President also addressed the NRA’s proposal to prevent school shootings by hiring armed guards to patrol schools.

“There are going to need to be some armed guards in some schools where there is a higher crime rate and kids themselves may take weapons to school, absolutely, but it is not an excuse not to deal with this issue.”

Watch video, uploaded to YouTube by the Associated Press, below:

[SOURCE]

Edited January 10, 2013 by Czero 101

[DONTEATUS]

This is so true Czero ! Im all for Getting these weapons off the streets and out of the hands of the public.

[AsteroidX]

You still cant have my guns

[Babe Ruth]

Of course he's going to call them crazy. The "gun control argument" is intellectually bankrupt, as countless numbers of "gun control laws" are broken with every shooting there is. Adding one more law will change nothing and stop nothing, and everybody knows it.

If "gun control" worked, however one may define it, there would be evidence that it has worked. But there is no evidence that laws stop criminals or crazy people.

Still, the politicians pander to the emotional masses, and say "we're going to do something"

Who is kidding who here? Call them crazy, say you're going to "do something", and the beat goes on.

[Twin]

The 2nd amendment says nothing about hunting or a hunting culture. It's about protecting freedom.