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Mr.United_Nations

Could Syria civil war start a new cold war?

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Coffey

except the part where if iran hits saudia or qatar the whole arab world will take action against it

especially the countries with revolutions since the people of those countries

shared a big dislike for iran because of syria's events

the arabs are litarly boiling with hate against iran actions

So you reckon they won't risk it and are just being mouthy? Or do you think it's media propaganda?

Edited by Coffey

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I have seen the evidence to back this, so I do agree with you. But it is classed as a "conspiracy theory".

So what are the chances of Iran helping? They chances seem high, but what about Russia and then China? Do you think there is a chance that if the US gets involved if Iran does that those 2 will?

Then we will get an idea of whether the UK and other European forces will be pulled into it. I don't doubt for a second that Cameron will jump at the chnace to get his tongue further up the US goverments rear end. I noticed Vladimir Putin didn't shake Camerons hand during a meeting, it seemed on purpose. lol You reckon it was just a mess up or on purpose?

Putin is playing the tough guy but he's a little short (pun intended) on military power to do anything except start a war and threaten to use nukes. His military is still a shambles, though it is improving. If Iran were to send large numbers of troops to reinforce Assad it might complicate things but i don't think it necessarily would cause a wider war - unless Israel got jumpy and thrashed his a$$ for it. From a standpoint of self interest, nothing in Syria is more important to western governments than the security of those chem/bio weapons. It sounds awful to say it but it's just true. If a regional war breaks out it will be because of those VX and Sarin scuds.

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wittyusernamefailed

Well for better or worse the U.S. is getting involved. President Obama just signed a "finding" that will allow CIA, and other special ops forces to aid the rebel insurgence against Assad http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/01/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120801. This could get rather interesting fairly quickly.

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Knight Of Shadows

So you reckon they won't risk it and are just being mouthy? Or do you think it's media propaganda?

if you know shia " iran majorty " like we do .. you'd understand why i say it's all big mouth talk

yes it's big mouth talk and i don't think it's progenda they DO have big mouth but short hand if you know what i mean

we've seen and experinced these types of people of which some branch of them rule my country

they talk and talk but once there is some one more powerful than them says something

they bend down like chickens and obey

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Coffey

Well for better or worse the U.S. is getting involved. President Obama just signed a "finding" that will allow CIA, and other special ops forces to aid the rebel insurgence against Assad http://www.reuters.c...E8701OK20120801. This could get rather interesting fairly quickly.

Well the US has put sanctions on iran as well.

Same thing happened with Iraq.

Edited by Coffey

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Coffey

It could be the catalyst to Cold War 2 if the following article has any truth to it.

http://english.pravd...ia_army_base-0/

Seems the Russians are trying to get their military power back.

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Mr.United_Nations

Not related to Syria but Israel is already preparing calculated losses on their sides should they go with Iran. 300 they say on their side and Jewish media reports that within or in 12 weeks time action could happen.

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Well for better or worse the U.S. is getting involved. President Obama just signed a "finding" that will allow CIA, and other special ops forces to aid the rebel insurgence against Assad http://www.reuters.c...E8701OK20120801. This could get rather interesting fairly quickly.

This might explain why the rebels seem to have become a bit more successful recently. If manpads are introduced the airpower advantage would be greatly reduced. Anti armor weapons would be relatively easy to import. I just wonder at what point the Iranians would actually try to resupply AND send in troops as reinforcements? Not just advisers. Large numbers, say, thousands. Assad seems to lack the ability to control all the cities at the same time so an influx of a few thousand well disciplined foreign forces could do the "job" but it would also drive up the death toll dramatically I think. A line seems to have been drawn.

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Mr.United_Nations

This might explain why the rebels seem to have become a bit more successful recently. If manpads are introduced the airpower advantage would be greatly reduced. Anti armor weapons would be relatively easy to import. I just wonder at what point the Iranians would actually try to resupply AND send in troops as reinforcements? Not just advisers. Large numbers, say, thousands. Assad seems to lack the ability to control all the cities at the same time so an influx of a few thousand well disciplined foreign forces could do the "job" but it would also drive up the death toll dramatically I think. A line seems to have been drawn.

It's harder to attack a urban area than it is to defend.

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It's harder to attack a urban area than it is to defend.

That's true in general but less true if the attackers don't care about casualties. As Assad has shown, he just wants to destroy their will to resist so he kills indiscriminately. No need so much to go house to house when you are willing to just obliterate the houses.

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Coffey

That's true in general but less true if the attackers don't care about casualties. As Assad has shown, he just wants to destroy their will to resist so he kills indiscriminately. No need so much to go house to house when you are willing to just obliterate the houses.

That's not really what he meant. Urban areas have perfect places to set up defensive spots etc, like nsipers and MG's. It's really difficult to get into those areas, unless of course you bomb the area or use artillery first. Even then it's not that easy.

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Mr.United_Nations

That's not really what he meant. Urban areas have perfect places to set up defensive spots etc, like nsipers and MG's. It's really difficult to get into those areas, unless of course you bomb the area or use artillery first. Even then it's not that easy.

Yeah that's correct, which is why they have no foot troops in the actual city itself.

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Yeah that's correct, which is why they have no foot troops in the actual city itself.

I don't understand your point. Pounding a city into rubble and eventually killing or driving out it's inhabitants is also an effective way of restoring government control and rendering that city useless to the rebels except as part of a PR campaign, which Assad doesn't care about anyway. If the city HAD to be taken and troops inserted then I can see your point but that really doesn't have to happen anymore. It's all out total war now.

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Coffey

I don't understand your point. Pounding a city into rubble and eventually killing or driving out it's inhabitants is also an effective way of restoring government control and rendering that city useless to the rebels except as part of a PR campaign, which Assad doesn't care about anyway. If the city HAD to be taken and troops inserted then I can see your point but that really doesn't have to happen anymore. It's all out total war now.

It's a bit different when it's someone elses city in the country you are invading. (like say US in Iraq, where thye could jsut flatten cities)

This is his country and he won't want to flatten a city thta could bring resources afterwards. He'll be desperate to win over the remaining civilian population afterwards as well if he won. (which I doubt he will now the US has stuck their nose in)

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Mr.United_Nations

I don't understand your point. Pounding a city into rubble and eventually killing or driving out it's inhabitants is also an effective way of restoring government control and rendering that city useless to the rebels except as part of a PR campaign, which Assad doesn't care about anyway. If the city HAD to be taken and troops inserted then I can see your point but that really doesn't have to happen anymore. It's all out total war now.

Think of an ants nest, you aim is to destroy the ants however you have been destroying the ant's nest. The ants survive and the queen survives and they rebuild, you keep doing the same over and over again, they rebuild over and over again. The ants are winning because the Queen is still alive and be able to build again quickly. That's how it is in Syria

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It's a bit different when it's someone elses city in the country you are invading. (like say US in Iraq, where thye could jsut flatten cities)

This is his country and he won't want to flatten a city thta could bring resources afterwards. He'll be desperate to win over the remaining civilian population afterwards as well if he won. (which I doubt he will now the US has stuck their nose in)

Coffey this is what I've been saying about US involvement all along. You're not even in the region and you view US involvement negatively. I do too but for different reasons. The point is that people like KoS, who are there and suffering through this hell and who NEED the help also will hate the US for being involved...is it just me or is that a little crazy? To ask for help but still hate and distrust those who try to help? So what I see is : "we need help from the west's airpower and maybe weapons. But we hate the west so if you try to stay one moment longer than WE think you should, we'll attack YOU also". In fact it's my guess that even if we don't get involved in any serious way we still will be blamed, even though it's the Russians and Iranians who are obviously supporting this madman. Me personally? I reach out a helping hand and someone punches me in the mouth...... I walk away and leave him to his fate.

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Mr.United_Nations

Um the RAF have a base in Cyprus.

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Um the RAF have a base in Cyprus.

Do you expect them to become involved?

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Mr.United_Nations

Do you expect them to become involved?

Well it's in the region.

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Coffey

Do you expect them to become involved?

UK will follow the US as per usual, Cameron wouldn't be able to resist getting his tongue up further.

Coffey this is what I've been saying about US involvement all along. You're not even in the region and you view US involvement negatively. I do too but for different reasons. The point is that people like KoS, who are there and suffering through this hell and who NEED the help also will hate the US for being involved...is it just me or is that a little crazy? To ask for help but still hate and distrust those who try to help? So what I see is : "we need help from the west's airpower and maybe weapons. But we hate the west so if you try to stay one moment longer than WE think you should, we'll attack YOU also". In fact it's my guess that even if we don't get involved in any serious way we still will be blamed, even though it's the Russians and Iranians who are obviously supporting this madman. Me personally? I reach out a helping hand and someone punches me in the mouth...... I walk away and leave him to his fate.

I see what you mean, 2 edged sword.

US doesn't help they complain, US does help, thye become the bad guy.

I think US shouldn't help. I think they should keep out of it. China has the right the idea. Iran wouldn't purposely go head to head with the US, either would Russia. Both of them for the same reason, they are far too underpowered to take on the US, UK and the rest of Europe that would be involved. The onyl one who would give us a full on serious war is China and they would avoid it unless the US pushes it too far, because of Nukes and how high thta death toll would become if those 2 went head to head. That's the problem though, the US is pushing it, putitng sanctions on Iran is absolutely disgusting. They are bullying them into a war now. Which I don't see China taking lightly.

Edited by Coffey

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Mr.United_Nations

I wouldn't say bullying, Irans threatening to attack everyone at the moment. China only cares about wealth that's why they are staying out

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Coffey

I wouldn't say bullying, Irans threatening to attack everyone at the moment. China only cares about wealth that's why they are staying out

I would. lol Iran only threatened SA and Qatar didn't they? ANd those threats might not even be legit....

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I would. lol Iran only threatened SA and Qatar didn't they? ANd those threats might not even be legit....

SA is pretty vulnerable to a ballistic missile attack with conventional warheads. Their wells/pumping infrastructure could look like Kuwait after the first Gulf war if Iran fired a few salvoes of missiles. And the affect on the global economy would be awful for weeks if not months. Which is why Iran wouldn't do it. Because they KNOW the US would slap them, HARD. Iran is playing a propaganda game to edge up the price of oil and keep the faint hearted guessing. But they have won the "negotiations". They are still enriching and even adding centrifuges. Once they have the capability of assembling a bomb, just watch their rhetoric change. And I guarantee that all here who have said "they aren't building a weapon" will then say "so what? They have a right to a weapon if they want it". Rejoicing in a petty debate victory while the world is literally about to go to hell. It's fascinating to watch, actually.

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Coffey

SA is pretty vulnerable to a ballistic missile attack with conventional warheads. Their wells/pumping infrastructure could look like Kuwait after the first Gulf war if Iran fired a few salvoes of missiles. And the affect on the global economy would be awful for weeks if not months. Which is why Iran wouldn't do it. Because they KNOW the US would slap them, HARD. Iran is playing a propaganda game to edge up the price of oil and keep the faint hearted guessing. But they have won the "negotiations". They are still enriching and even adding centrifuges. Once they have the capability of assembling a bomb, just watch their rhetoric change. And I guarantee that all here who have said "they aren't building a weapon" will then say "so what? They have a right to a weapon if they want it". Rejoicing in a petty debate victory while the world is literally about to go to hell. It's fascinating to watch, actually.

I don't believe that, i think Iran is being bullied.... I think the US and Israel are trying to bait them.

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