Olympic Ceremony Heathcare Propaganda

[Mr Right Wing]

No one is been penalised - the profits of the private professional are contingent on a functional society which is largely made up of public institutions and the public sector. He could not function without a state to make it possible to move his goods and to guarantee the contractual obligations he enters into. If the businesses had to internalize all the costs which they load onto the public through externalization, then most would no longer be viable.

I am not in any way against private business providing services and goods - but they have to be constrained in such a way as they serve the needs and desires of a civil society.

Br Cornelius

Where have all the reds come from?

[Guest]

Where have all the reds come from?

Are you calling me a Red ... you ******* right wing **** !!!

Br Cornelius

[TSS]

I'm against the low income lefties who believe in a culture of entitlement. They think everything in life should be handed to them on a plate and expect those who are successful to pay for it.

This is not about firemen getting injured in the line of duty and having to rely on the state. You also cant really privatise the police, the fire brigade or the military without causing problems. They should stay however their beacracy should be reduced and they should have to account for their spending to stop wastage. The military convent should be expanded to include injured personal for all of them.

If I was PM your father would be living in a normal house not one on a council estate.

Sure there are people who think that life owes them a living, instead of earning it, similarly there are those at the top who think the less fortunate are there to be exploited. £3.00p/h from you springs to mind, so you can't have it both ways...

You seem to think that everyone fits into brackets based on their house...you couldn't be more wrong, if you think that living on the bread line is a favourable life style choice then i'm guessing you've never struggled......it's crap, depressing, it's like living in a void that's separate from the rest of society.....but you wouldn't know that, you've never lived it....

You could do with a reality check...be made to spend 6 months on a inner city sink estate, then you'll see for yourself the diversity of situations that lead people to be in these situations...

[Mr Right Wing]

Are you calling me a Red ... you ******* right wing **** !!!

Br Cornelius

Well thankyou for calling me a gorgeous right wing stud

but really you didnt have to censor it

[Guest]

Well thankyou for calling me a gorgeous right wing stud

but really you didnt have to censor it

******g T**t !!!

Br Cornelius

Edited July 31, 2012 by Guest

[Mr Right Wing]

You could do with a reality check...be made to spend 6 months on a inner city sink estate, then you'll see for yourself the diversity of situations that lead people to be in these situations...

No thanks the reason why many end up living that life occurs in their mental attitude.

Maybe you should spend 6 months living in a normal part of town and then 6 months in the rich part of town. Notice how the mentality gradully gets better from your housing estate?

[Michelle]

Well "medical bills" can be a pretty broad spectrum, and whilst not everything is covered by the NHS, it was aftercare in my fathers case I was thinking about, he had some basic home visits but was pretty much left to find and fund his own after that. My point wasn't really about the NHS though, it was about his statement of hating everyone on council estates.

Thank you...I understand what your point was. It did confuse me a little when everyone keeps talking about free health care. So, it doesn't cover extended care and someone can still lose everything due to extended health care costs. I've been led to believe it is a safety net and no one within the NHS system would ever become homeless due to medical bills...at least in the conversations about the US health care system.

I appreciate the clarification.

[Mr Right Wing]

******g T**t !!!

Br Cornelius

Stuning t**t?

Why thankyou but please stop you're starting to sound a little gay.

[TSS]

Thank you...I understand what your point was. It did confuse me a little when everyone keeps talking about free health care. So, it doesn't cover extended care and someone can still lose everything due to extended health care costs. I've been led to believe it is a safety net and no one within the NHS system would ever become homeless due to medical bills...at least in the conversations about the US health care system.

I appreciate the clarification.

Well I can't speak for the NHS now, since this a few years ago......but i'm guessing the "no one within the NHS system would ever become homeless due to medical bills" is one of those catch all statements they use, which whilst true, isn't quite as clear cu as it seemst, i.e my father didn't become homeless, but he needed a council house....so he could lose any assets he had in the process of trying to get a better quality of life, but was protected by the state when he hit a certain point of desperation. Whether it works exactly like that now I really couldn't say, but i'd be surprised if it had changed to much.

Edit - I should add, he had loads of operations on his road to recovery, all covered by the NHS, and treated excellently on that front. I guess they have to have a cut off point at some point, and in his case it was to early really, but the state stepped in and helped after that. Hence my point about all council tennants not being the same.

Edited July 31, 2012 by The Sky Scanner

[Guest]

OK lets not be insulting , lets just tell the truth .... you odious evil little ****.

How about answering that pointed question you keep studiously ignoring. How is twice the per capita cost more efficient ??

Br Cornelius

Edited July 31, 2012 by Guest

[None of the above]

Are you calling me a Red ... you ******* right wing **** !!!

Br Cornelius

When a Facist calls you a Red, take it as a compliment mate

[TSS]

No thanks the reason why many end up living that life occurs in their mental attitude.

Maybe you should spend 6 months living in a normal part of town and then 6 months in the rich part of town. Notice how the mentality gradully gets better from your housing estate?

I do thanks..bought my own house in a lovely part of West England, payed my mortgage off and run my own business...i've met just as much low life robbing scum whilst being in business as I have from any other area of life i've lived in. You however have no experience in other areas to speak of, big difference...

[None of the above]

Stuning t**t?

Why thankyou but please stop you're starting to sound a little gay.

Well, you are sounding a little homophobic!

Is there no end to your hatred?

Edited July 31, 2012 by Atlantia

[Michelle]

Well I can't speak for the NHS now, since this a few years ago......but i'm guessing the "no one within the NHS system would ever become homeless due to medical bills" is one of those catch all statements they use, which whilst true, isn't quite as clear cu as it seemst, i.e my father didn't become homeless, but he needed a council house....so he could lose any assets he had in the process of trying to get a better quality of life, but was protected by the state when he hit a certain point of desperation. Whether it works exactly like that now I really couldn't say, but i'd be surprised if it had changed to much.

Edit - I should add, he had loads of operations on his road to recovery, all covered by the NHS, and treated excellently on that front. I guess they have to have a cut off point at some point, and in his case it was to early really, but the state stepped in and helped after that. Hence my point about all council tennants not being the same.

We have the same sort of programs for people that can't afford to keep their homes. Sadly there is a waiting list and it does get to the point of desperation sometimes before they can get approved.

[questionmark]

We have the same sort of programs for people that can't afford to keep their homes. Sadly there is a waiting list and it does get to the point of desperation sometimes before they can get approved.

And there is the little difference that his parents did not go broke because of medical bills but because he could not work anymore, unless I got something wrong.

Which would be quite opposite to my in-laws, despite receiving a pretty good pension (both), having saved all their lives quite a stack, after both came down with cancer there was not a penny nor a house left.

Funny thing is, if they would have had nothing to start with they probably would have gotten the same treatment at the expenses of the rest.

[Mr Right Wing]

I think someone here has snapped and needs to stop swearing before the mod has a word.

[None of the above]

His hypocracy is boundless.

Let's not forget that if his résumé is to be believed then both of his parents were employed by the state. So his 'middle class bubble' was paid for by the very tax system that he so decries.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Atlantia

[Guest]

Depriving people of basic health care and defrauding the state of taxes is acceptable to you Mr Right Wing boy , but a bit of swearing is beyond the pale. Your a funny one.

Its amazing what the conservative can and cannot stomach.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 31, 2012 by Guest

[Michelle]

And there is the little difference that his parents did not go broke because of medical bills but because he could not work anymore, unless I got something wrong.

Which would be quite opposite to my in-laws, despite receiving a pretty good pension (both), having saved all their lives quite a stack, after both came down with cancer there was not a penny nor a house left.

Funny thing is, if they would have had nothing to start with they probably would have gotten the same treatment at the expenses of the rest.

My mother had home health care for five years, 24/7...some of it paid by insurance and some out of pocket. She never lost the house we grew up in, but the cash was all gone.

I know an abundance of people that have next to nothing and they are or were treated with the same respect and given the same treatment anyone with insurance would have gotten. It works the same way over here we just don't call it the NHS. Contrary to popular belief people aren't left on the street do die if they have no money.

[Mr Right Wing]

Depriving people of basic health care and defrauding the state of taxes is acceptable to you Mr Right Wing boy , but a bit of swearing is beyond the pale. Your a funny boy.

Br Cornelius

While I realise when a debate turns political some people can get a little 'hot under the collar' is there any need to start the swearing and abuse?

As was pointed out the NHS is not free it is paid for through NICs. The NIC paid by someone working 40 hrs a week on minimum wage is more than the cost of private healthcare. Heck we could privatise the NHS and make employers give all workers free private healthcare policies instead of their NICs and its still cheaper for them too.

Dont you see it?

[Guest]

While I realise when a debate turns political some people can get a little 'hot under the collar' is there any need to start the swearing and abuse?

As was pointed out the NHS is not free it is paid for through NICs. The NIC paid by someone working 40 hrs a week on minimum wage is more than the cost of private healthcare. Heck we could privatise the NHS and make employers give all workers free private healthcare policies instead of their NICs and its still cheaper for them too.

Dont you see it?

I see that the alternative is more expensive and leaves more people without adequate care .. can you not acknowledge that ?

No one claimed that the NHS was free - we all pay for it .. but equally no health care system is free and especially not the American one.

A debate is only a debate if the two parties address the actual facts of the matter ... and you are refusing to debate in favour of ideological posturing. If you refuse to follow the rules of discourse expect to be verbally punched when people get bored of you time wasting.

Br Cornelius

[Mr Right Wing]

I see that the alternative is more expensive and leaves more people without adequate care .. can you not acknowledge that ?

No one claimed that the NHS was free - we all pay for it .. but equally no health care system is free and especially not the American one.

A debate is only a debate if the two parties address the actual facts of the matter ... and you are refusing to debate in favour of ideological posturing. If you refuse to follow the rules of discourse expect to be verbally punched when people get bored of you time wasting.

Br Cornelius

Right there in the last comment you were told that NICs is more expensive than private healthcare.

Yet you then claim its more expensive. You are biased and its you that isnt open to debate.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Guest]

Right there in the last comment you were told that NICs is more expensive than private healthcare.

Yet you then claim its more expensive. You are biased and its you that isnt open to debate.

The per capita cost of the NHS is half the per capita cost of the American system. That is a basic measure of the efficiency of the systems. As you must be well aware NIC are only used in small part to pay for the NHS, and generally for the vast majority of the people of Britain the health component will cost considerably less than Insurance premiums in America. On top of that their level of treatment will not be dependent of the insurance policy they hold.

let it also be noted that the private health care system in the UK is a parasite on the back of the NHS, with consuiltants been trained and paid a basic salary by the state. The private hospitals cherry pick the profitable services they will offer and offload the rest to the NHS - often sending their patients to "private" beds in NHS hospitals. If the whole system was private then the costs to the end user would rise dramatically to levels comparable to those in the USA.

Britain is in general a very low wage economy and people only accept that because of the security which their NIC and taxes provide in the form of the welfare state. This lifts the costs from the shoulders of employers and is another example of an externality on which employers depend to remain profitable.

Your analysis is so simple and naive that it could only have been lifted from a propaganda rag of a right wing think tank - anyone who had spent even a second contemplating what you are suggesting would have spotted the gaping flaws

Br Cornelius

Edited July 31, 2012 by Guest

[TSS]

Right there in the last comment you were told that NICs is more expensive than private healthcare.

Yet you then claim its more expensive. You are biased and its you that isnt open to debate.

You don't pay NIC's though, right? so you don't get a say on how it's spent, right?

Questionmark - yes the house was lost through not being able to work and pay the mortgage, savings went on aftercare.

[hetrodoxly]

My mother had home health care for five years, 24/7...some of it paid by insurance and some out of pocket. She never lost the house we grew up in, but the cash was all gone.

I know an abundance of people that have next to nothing and they are or were treated with the same respect and given the same treatment anyone with insurance would have gotten. It works the same way over here we just don't call it the NHS. Contrary to popular belief people aren't left on the street do die if they have no money.

Why do people bother with insurance?