Evolution Vs. Creationism

[Homer]

Teresa,

You stated: Try to keep it readable, Ok??. My points are very readable if one takes the time to try to understand the scientific evidense of both sides of the debate: creation or evolution.

Evolution is a fact. So is creation. But life didn't start from the evolutionary process, but evolved only after it was already created.

As I stated previously: the ones that can't understand these facts CHOOSE to not understand because it goes against whats been ingrained in their thought process.

Homer[glow=color,strength,width]

[JesusFreakGS]

I don't know about that, but the only reason I couldn't understand what you said is because just that... I couldn't understand it. Maybe it's my age or my level of intelligence, but I just plain didn't know what you were saying lol.

                                      Adam

[Homer]

Adam,

I see what you mean, to put it another way, it's almost exactly like what YOU stated earlier on this topic about the effect not being able to outrun the cause, which is what Darwin's theory suggests, and you oppose.

As you already know, we both believe in the same thing with regard to creation, and I was merely giving some real life examples of scientific evidense to support what we believe.

Homer[glow=color,strength,width]

[JesusFreakGS]

Ah okay. I didn't know we were still on the same side, Homer! I thought you'd converted! lol.

              Adam

[Homer]

Adam,

Yes I still believe what you believe in terms of creation, but I tend to bring up the scientific data instead of just stating my belief. Sorry if I got a little too technical in my previous explanation, I get carried away sometimes.

Homer[glow=color,strength,width]

[JesusFreakGS]

Homer,

     it's okay I forgive ya.  

                                  Adam

[odinsupreme]

Aaaah, a happy end after all.  

Odin Supreme  8)

[Homer]

:'( sniff sniff  :'(

Happy endings make me cry.  :'(  

[pangea]

Hello all! I am new here, but I have been reading many of your posts with great interest.

I used to be a believer, in the xian sense of the word, but through careful and lengthy study I suppose I am now considered a Free Thinker. My experiences as a xian were great, and only a few of them were negative; but that is not why I chose to "seek the truth". I am of the opinion that free thinkers support a scientific view of life and our surroundings, because I believe that science is the 'unbiased search for truth based on the availible evidence', whereas religion (specifically xianity) is the 'biased search for evidence to support what they already to believe to be the truth'.

I wonder how many of you I offended with that last statement! I didn't mean to, it is only my humble opinion.

I wish that science and religion could co-exist, but the more I learn and speak with people, the more I realize that it is probably not possible. There is so much evidence and proof with regards to evolution and NONE for religion; and that is as it should be, since religion is based on faith. If religion could be proven, then their belief system would not be one based on faith, rather it would be based on fact.

I exercise faith everyday; when I start my car (truck) I do not check all the connections under the hood, kick the tires and check my fliud levels; rather I put in the key and turn it, believing that it will start. Granted, I am basing my 'faith' on past experiences, but it is a demonstration on faith nonetheless.

Perhaps if we as a people began to devote just a little bit of our energy and efforts in solving many of our social ills, we could then begin tackling the more difficult problems that exist. But if we are ruled by a tyrannical figurehead, that teaches people get what they deserve (the result of 'sin'), then we will continue to revert back to the dark ages (appropriately named due to the ruling church at the time). This is happening more and more if you pay the slightest attention to world politics.

Now, as I step off my soapbox I thank you all for this great site. I love coming together as a group and disscussing opposing (and agreeing) views.

Thanks again!

[Halo_Jones]

Hey Welcome Pangea

Hope you enjoy posting here, Oh! I love your interview with Satan!!!

[Saru]

Hi Pangea,

Welcome to the forum.

[Bizarro]

i believe that a loving God created us- either as a primitive seed that would evolve or as a biological robot to serve a purpose we don't understand. i believe in evolution and its evidence exists in all parts of the world in the indigenous plants and animals. maybe God understood evolution and intentionally chose us to start primitive and evolve to a higher form? its the process that would make us fit our environment the best.

while i believe a loving God created us, i don't know if He still exists or has passed on. if we were made in His image, surely our death would reveal that He dies as well. the fact that we were provided with the biological necessities of life is not what convinces me that a God created us- our environment and evolution would explain why we live on those things. what convinces me of a God is the fact that i came to exist as a sentient being from nothingness. I had no choice as to whether i wanted to exist or not, i was simply poofed from thin air into existence that is at times supremely difficult and unpleasant. that is a very scary thought to me as it shows how completely helpless we are in the hands of something powerful. just as scientists choose to create and destroy colonies of bacteria at a whim, we are brought forth by something more powerful and understanding than us. we shouldnt be careless with life, as we don't understand what our actions create and destroy in the process. i hope that our creator had a better grasp on these things than we have, and also a greater empathy to our struggles and pain.

then again, we could be bacteria in his beaker that is too old and about to be thrown out

[teqiva]

Hi all,

First of all, just like to say that I am very open minded and I am unlikely to get offended by anything. I respect everyones beliefs. I think the most important thing is that one's own beliefs give him/her internal peace in some way or another so that he/she can live a good life. The following is just my opinion on the subject:

Some very interesting ideas have come up in this thread! With regards to evolution/creationism, if I had to pick one, I'd gamble with evolution. However, I find it tough to believe that everything, including conscious living beings, was created from a bunch of random events. It's easier to believe that some kind of driving force, or God, created our Universe. This to me, however, is just an easy answer that doesn't solve the entire problem. If a God were responsible for our existence, who or what was responsible for the God's existence? It's kindof the same problem all over again. For these reasons, I cannot fully accept evolution or creationism as they are currently defined. Guesses and leaps of faith are unacceptable to me. If I were to use a leap of faith on one of my multiple choice midterms, I'd fail dismally. The possibilies relating to the origin of the universe are not just 1/4 like a test, they are practically endless, so the chance of faith getting the correct answer to this problem is pretty close to zero. I think one should work their way up toward the solution of a problem rather than just leaping there.

Just my thoughts for now!

-Marty

[j6p]

I've noticed that Homer and I disagree on what a brand of beer is the best but we will agree that beer is the best. (just a metaphor)

Picking up on that I would like to expand on Homers earlier post about creation and evolution.

Yes there was creation and that started evolution, both are valid but who created God? No one. Oh my!!! How can that be? Here is how that can be. The word is "Eternal" and the problem is that we can't fully comprehend the word. The reason that we can't comprehend the word is that we haven't "evolved" enough, at this point. Let me explain a little further. Way way back there was a time when the human race couldn't comprehend the concept of "Zero" in fact there is a book titled "Zero" its an interesting read. Then we were hit with the concept of negative numbers....what da...wutch u mean, less den nuttin...you crazy or sumptin??? Now we understand negative numbers but we still can't quite get our minds wrapped around eternal and eternity and until we can fully grasp that concept we will argue this point to no valid conclusion.

God is eternal. How? We don't know at this point in our evolution but I have confidence that we are on the verge of knowing. I hope we are all around when it's discovered...Wow what a trip thats gonna be. And here is where Homer and I really part ways, I think: I believe that God created the universe and then got out of the way to let it happen, there's where free will comes into play. I believe that God can end the universe if He so desired but I don't think He has full control over its evolution, like most think. I believe its like striking a match. We can strike and we can extinguish but we cant fully control the burn. I offer this: Can God make a rock so heavy that not even He can lift it?

[teqiva]

"God is eternal"

How can you claim a God to be something that like you said, we don't even fully understand? This to me is no more than a guess.

-Marty

[Mentalcase]

In my opinion...

I don't understand, is "god" a soul or many souls? I also don't understand how "god" created everything, what tools did "god" have to create the first thing besides "god"? and finally, What created "god". God...

Facts are critical for true evolution, even if you have religion during the process.

Which is very obvious, we are evolving at this very moment. Creation and evolution are two in the same. In order for anything to evolve, creation has to be in effect. Something has to mutate.

MC

Edited February 18, 2003 by Mentalcase

[teqiva]

Good thoughts Mentalcase..I agree with what you are saying.

-Marty

[FreyKade]

i think ill veer this post abit. i assume that all peoples that believe in "god", think that he/she/it is all good. but how can this be. god creates beings with free will, yet god says that you must worship god. (does god want attention). i would have thought that if god created beings with free will, that god will allow us to choose to worship him (i am going to assume god is a he, so it is easier to write), instead of saying something on the lines of "worship me and live forever, dont and you will perish".

he creates people with free will yet says they arent allowd to do things(eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge). they did, so he punishes people. wouldnt it be right for god to let people to create their own way of life.

in the bible, it says that angels were created without free will (the main difference between humans and angels), yet satan/lucifer/beelzeebub, was able to change his mind about serving god. how is this possible.

so isnt it fair to asume that god is actually evil.

im going to stop because it is difficult to put my thoughts in writing (what i wrote is probably gobel dee goup).

[Homer]

This was supposed to be a discussion of whether one believes in creation or evolution or both, and not to get into the specifics of ‘God’ and whether or not God is evil or what his plans are or anything like that. I mentioned God as a source of creation, and not of a particular religious preference.

"in the bible, it says that angels were created without free will (the main difference between humans and angels), yet satan/lucifer/beelzeebub, was able to change his mind about serving god. how is this possible.

so isnt it fair to asume that god is actually evil.”

If this isn’t a joke, then it has got to be one of the stupidest things ever written, and was obviously written by someone who knows nothing of the bible he claims to refer to.

[FreyKade]

i dont now much of the bible, and i dont care if it is a stupid question. im not gonna know everything if i dont ask stupid questions, am i?

[Homer]

skalra63,

You stated you don’t know much about the bible, and that seems to be the understatement of a lifetime.

Nobody is going to know everything regardless what they ask, which further validates my statement that it’s a stupid question which shouldn’t be entitled to an answer.

Edited February 19, 2003 by Homer

[Mr-X]

Creationism (intelligent design) and Evolution (chance or random occurrence).

I think the universe is big enough for both theories to be partially true.

[j6p]

I you're right on the money Mr. X, I can't think of anything that doesn't change. Everything in creation evolves constantly, absolutes even evolve.

I'm having a wonderful day. A friend who needed a hand with a chore called me this morning and said that he took care of it himself. He thanked me for the offer to help. **JOY**

[reese2]

Good Lord!!! (No pun intended) Well, maybe

Is there any particular reason why everyone gets so turned inside out at the mention of this topic? Personally there is never a right or wrong answer to this subject. I say, believe whatever makes you sleep easier at night. No one will ever know the truth. (Until it is too late, that is) It is all pure speculation.

So, as far as asking stupid questions, they really are frivilous because as smart as most are on this board, they cannot possibly answer your questions. I think when it comes to faith, the answers are inside all of us, and only we can decide if and what we each believe in.

Until I am convinced otherwise, I believe in both Evolution and Creation, now how is that for a complete oxymoron?

Reese

[cerberus]

I dont believe we were created by a higher being.

I believe that evolution is correct.

But, when i see certain animal and human design, i wonder why we are like it. Surely, it's too much to believe that this design happened naturally. I think some help was introduced along the way.

I think if something is forced, it can develop. But who could force it?

The question is who forced, and why?

Humans and animals have an amazing history. To think we were once a relative of ameoba's or monkeys is kinda surreal. But the proof is fairly clear.

God and higher beings etc.. is a question that never ends.

If God or Aliens made us, who made them? etc etc

Nothing can just appear. It has to have a beginning and an end. Possibly a middle. A middle is only apparent after the end. The end is not known, so we are kinda lost. But, we seem to know the beginning.

So, if God was an Alien.. that decided to help our planet.. why do we not believe in it totally?

Personally i think Jesus may have been an alien, as he is too far evolved from us, (if you read what you see and hear).

No one i have ever heard of in real life has the skills of Jesus.

Surely, in that time we would have all evolved to that status. I think personally, these visitors were highly feared and we.. the natives feared them so much, we banded together and killed them off.

The other question is... who are the visitors, if that's true?

I believe if God did or does exist, the origins may come from somewhere else, not in our mindset or comprehension.

A supernatural explaination could be... Aliens (higher beings) landed on our planet. The evolution kicked in because of their work, and they let it develop.

God (in many different religions) is the highest power. God reigns supreme. If God was more evolved than our planet natives, he would have appeared as formidable. No doubt some people would be scared, and confused.

I think Jesus was an alien, and tried to help us understand ourselves and our purpose as a race, but the idea was so crazy, it was insane. Therefore, a revolt occured, and we killed him and ridiculed his followers.

Therefore, any link or contact would have been lost. The reason why people believe in God is because of the Bible. A great idea to make a book? or an ancient textual recording to help in the future?

Either way.. i think some kind of alien technology may have kick started us to how we are today.

What do you all think? Is God a manifestation of hope... or is God a true tale passed on, and based on an ancient meeting with a higher being(s)?

I think both are true.