bigsteff Posted May 1, 2003 #51 Share Posted May 1, 2003 ok...here is a quick solution PROVE THEIR IS A GOD and i don't mean look at how many people believe in him/her or thing believing and having faith in something does not meen it is true.... like LETS ALL KILL OURSELVES ,BECAUSE THIER IS A UFO BEHIND THE HALE BOP COMET...untrue with tragic results.... just one thing your holiness,,do not force your believes on other people....if we believe in evolution then that is our right.....you talk of god being loving yet with all the tragic events wordwide how are we supposed to believe this,,,,oh and here is something for you to thing about CANCER ,,worldwide thoudsands of PEOPLE die of this,,,did god not create man in is own image,,,so why did he give SHARKS the ability to fight cancer and live,,,,,and not man....seems kind of strange ,don't you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowdy Posted May 1, 2003 #52 Share Posted May 1, 2003 bigsteff, Sharks can fight cancer AND live?! COOL! Never knew that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerberus Posted May 1, 2003 #53 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I never said God doesnt exist, nor that he does. Just putting my view on the forum. That's what it's for, and i'm entitled. I respect your views too you know. I never mean't any offence. I merely live here, i dont rule or own it. I merely commented on the idea that God and Jesus were not from Earth. What do i know? I'm not a be-all. No-one knows, that's why we have ideas. BTW, i dont believe in UFO's living behind Hale-Bopp. It's Pluto! lol Or is it Uranus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 1, 2003 #54 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Bigsteff, Are you feeling alright? You posted as if you didn’t read the previous post at all. You stated: "PROVE THEIR IS A GOD" God can’t be proven or disproven, and to attempt to prove it one way or another is just as ridiculous as asking someone else to prove their belief. You stated: "just one thing your holiness,,do not force your believes on other people....if we believe in evolution then that is our right" Who was forcing their beliefs? If you are commenting on cerberus’ post, then why call him ‘your holiness’ and if you were to read what was posted you will find cerberus believed in evolution, and that we were not created by a higher power. You stated: "did god not create man in is own image,,,so why did he give SHARKS the ability to fight cancer and live,,,,,and not man....seems kind of strange ,don't you think" Nobody knows. But this doesn’t disprove the existence of God. It doesn’t give weight to either side of the argument really. Is it strange? Absolutely. But there's nothing unusually strange about that shark thing. This is just a strange world, that is all. This is such a touchy subject, and one that probably should be left alone(in my opinion), but in defense of cerberus, he wasn’t saying anything offensive or forcing his views on us. He was simply stating his belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizarro Posted May 1, 2003 #55 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I think Jesus was an alien, -Cerberus i think he wasn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 1, 2003 #56 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I agree with you DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsteff Posted May 1, 2003 #57 Share Posted May 1, 2003 hey homer....must have missed something....i was talking to JESUSFREAK or are they the same.....the point is .KNOW one can prove either way,so we should all treat each other with respect...because at the end of the day i'm right,your wrong,,i'm wrong your right, i'm wrong your wrong and we're in deep ..**** lol...oh and the cancer thing...if you were god and made man in YOUR image would you give the abillity to beat cancer to an other species.....hey the discovery channel is fab ...,,, sharks beating cancer is all to do with,cancer is in all of us,,,as in it's our own blood cells that revolt against us...white blood cells attack foriegn bodies in our body...but in the case of cancer,white blood cells attack our own healthy red blood cells.....a bit like friendly fire in war,,,,,,and by then it's to late. sharks however....their bodies/blood cells/brains.....whatever know the diverence.....between freindly fire,,,and enemy fire....if it's freindly nothing goes unchanged...but if it's cancer then the shark somehow diverts the blood flow from the area ,which the cancer is waiting for more red blood cells so in actual fact the SHARK is straving the cancer to death,,,,,,so should we dimiss nature as ,it already set in motion....or is evolution creating cures in animals as they come along...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceyKC Posted May 1, 2003 #58 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I'm no expert about sharks, but haven't they been around since before the dinosaurs? The fact that they are still here is amazing. I think if anything can destroy them, it's man polluting the waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 2, 2003 #59 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hey Bigsteff I apologize. It's been so long since JesusFreak posted, and before cerberus, it's been months since the one before him posted. So I thought you were replying to cerberus. As for JesusFreak, I completely agree with you. He has had a history of beating us to death with his beliefs. He's a nice young fellow(early-mid teens) if he stays away from the religious stuff, but the problem is, he never stays away from the religious stuff. I have debated Creation vs Evolution before, but never the existence of God. If there is a God, by the traditional meaning of God, then there was definately creation. But, if there was creation, that doesn't necessarily imply God, in the traditional meaning of God. So I'm not getting into that as I think it's a foolish argument. But as for the shark/cancer/God thing, I still think that is just one of many strange things in this world. Humans, like any animal, can be killed by any number of pesky viruses and bacteria and such. And if God had created an animal to be resistant to a particular killer, that doesn't suprise me at all. Again, I'm not arguing for or against God, I'm just saying it wouldn't be unusually strange for God to create an animal that has a greater immunity from certain things than humans, in my humble opinion. But again, I apologize for the mix up, as I thought you were bashing cerberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsteff Posted May 2, 2003 #60 Share Posted May 2, 2003 no problem homer....maybe i should have put on it,,,for the attention of jesus freak lol..... another strange thing....these creatures with the ability to grow limbs after they lose them,,,,,like some frogs...don't know if they all do..but if they lose a leg they can grown another back in it's place,,,,and what about crocs and alligaters,,,,when they fight,,i.e croc against croc,,,they sometimes get injured,gaping wound ,,yet in the water they are in is full of bacteria,,,you or i in that kind of water with an open wound ,,we would get an infection..but not crocs and alligaters,they must have a built in atidote or does MR ALLY GATOR go to the CROCTORS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naveed Posted May 5, 2003 #61 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Figured I throw in my 2 cents. I find it hard to believe in creationism fully, and at the same time hard to believe that evolution didn't have some other force at hand besides just natural selection and adaptation. I do however believe in both evolution and creationism. Not exactly a safe thing condisdering that I go to a pentacostal church which is one of the most strict an close minded forms of Christianity. The reason I believe that God or a god type being co-exists with evolution is do to many of the same reasons other ppl have stated on this post. I.E. the stuff about creation having to take place in order for evolution to occur. My other reasons are the facts that #1, the bible doesn't mention anything about dinosaur creatures or prehistoric beasts, even though most strong Chrisitians claim dinosaurs co-existed with man and that God just didn't put them on the arc. Basically my thing is there is so much stuff in the bible that doesn't agree with what science has discovered. At the same time though I've had experiences with things that I can only associate as being from "God" and have had experiences with stuff such as ghosts that to me prove the existence of a "higher" being or just afterlife of some kind. However, I am open to other ppls beliefs, and don't care what ppl think. I actually don't like trying to convince ppl of my ideas because of that. I think it's silly to force beliefs on ppl. Also I like to believe in the line from the movie Dogma "I hate using the word belief to describe God. God's an idea not a belief...you can change an idea. Theres to much red tape to change a belief." well thats not the exact line, but it's the overall subject of it. Other then that, if you really think about it, everything has to come from something right? Then either way, whether it's Creationism or Evolution there is one major flaw. So technically the matter that caused the big bang or whatever had to have come from somewhere and God had to come from somewhere. So shouldn't there really just be a big black void of nothingness and everything that we are experiencing right now, or seeing, or learning not exist at all? At the same time you gotta think that the nothingness came from something...which makes no sense period cuz if nothing exists then how can it come from something? Omg I'm trapped in my mind....*head explodes* Hehehe I think to much... Anyways...I guess this is my way of saying that it doesn't matter what you believe in, either way one of a infinite number of possibilities is correct. Theres no way of saying whether or not one is true, and evidence exists to support almost any theory out there. So why worry about who believes what and just let things be? Anyways...we could all be beings floating on a rock in space, which is a big black void, where nothing should technically exist in the first place therefore making us all illogical beings in an illogical world, in an illogical existence. Hehehe I love confusing ppl. Btw the nothingness and illogical stuff isn't really serious, but the rest is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 5, 2003 #62 Share Posted May 5, 2003 ...and evidence exists to support almost any theory out there. So why worry about who believes what and just let things be? That's the best advise I've heard on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizarro Posted May 5, 2003 #63 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Naveed, you remind me of myself when i was a bit younger. i still feel a bit of the same way. i believe in religion but i temper it with science. somewhere between the two is the real truth. Pentecostal churches are really something everyone should see once in their lifetime... then run out the door and just keep running and running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Posted May 9, 2003 #64 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Ha ha! People of my thought! Naveed and DS and I should band together and form a new religion called Christian Scientists! No No, that's blasphemy, burn it out of my mind!!!!! Phew glad that was over! What an ordeal! Kidding aside naveed I have an answer to your dinosaur question. I, like you, have thought about this and this is an opinion (I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get stick for my post about the greys otherwise), but I believe that when God made the earth in 7 days, well it probably wasn't 7 days at all. Remember that the bible is a book written for men and women a long time ago, especially books like genesis, which had to explain these things such as how was the earth created to simple people. Well imagine if we tried to explain evolution, and the formation of the planet (not in that order however!) to them, telling them that it took place over millions of years, that would be an ordeal huh? Well, what possibly was done was that they condensed the millions of years into seven days. Simpler to grasp huh? The reason that dinosaurs are no longer around was because they were extinct between the 6th and 7th day (i.e. the millions of years in between the 6th and 7th day for the slow!)! So science and religion can co-exist afterall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naveed Posted May 9, 2003 #65 Share Posted May 9, 2003 I actually believe that exact same theory Vox. I also kinda believe that the Old Testament is more a collection of fictional (or semi-fictional) stories that teach morals and stuff instead of being something that is supposed to be taken literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Posted May 10, 2003 #66 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I believe this aswell to a certain extent Naveed, but I think that you might have more problems with your theory than I in your Pentecostal Church than me in my Catholic Church. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naveed Posted May 10, 2003 #67 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Thats why I don't tell them my beliefs . I'm already persecuted enough for listening to non-Christian aka secular music so. Hehe...Coal Chmaber, Mudvayne, and Type O Negative work for them I guess . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Posted May 10, 2003 #68 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Mudvayne rocks bro!!!!! I can't ever get enough from L.D. 50, plus best song ever... Death Blooms!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naveed Posted May 11, 2003 #69 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Heck yeah Death Blooms is killer, I like their new album to. End of All Things to Come. Perversion of the Truth and World so Cold kick major butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Posted May 11, 2003 #70 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I havn't got the new album yet, I think my flatmate will though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naveed Posted May 11, 2003 #71 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Well, it kicks major a%$ I can assure you that. The bass work is awesome to. It's more melodic then the L.D. 50 is, but just as heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsteff Posted May 13, 2003 #72 Share Posted May 13, 2003 hey vox and naveed the last time i seen that much crap ,i was suffering from sickness and DIHOREEA...... oh right,,i'm sorry maybe your right.... but then who is telling lies then......GOD...OR THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE BIBLE.... hmmmm.. someone telling lies in the bible apart from judas,,well well well...come on telll me i'm missing something....I MEEN I HATE TO TELL YOU ,BUT THE BIBLE IS THE,BIGGEST FICTIONEL STORYBOOK EVER,,, i mean people say ,,where is the turth about...UFO..ALIENS,AND THE LIKES... WHERE IS THE PROOF ABOUT GOD...... FAITH IS ONE THING.....BUT HEY WAKE UP...THE TRUTH IS SOMETHING ELSE.... PROOF ME WRONG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsteff Posted May 13, 2003 #73 Share Posted May 13, 2003 SPELLING IS CRAP....BUT THE QUESTION ARE FOR REAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Posted May 13, 2003 #74 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Well Big Steff you might be hitting the nail on the head when you say the bible is fictional, or maybe on the other hand... We can realistically claim that God is not the one lying, if we can part from the point that the Christian God like most other Gods (I use the term lightly, since most major religions believe in the same God, except religions like Hinduism, etc) is a caring, nuturing God then we can hypothesise that he is not lying. However I'd be interested to know what you believe to be a lie in the bible, since let's face it the Bible is a big book and I can't go through every single story pointing out what is probably simplified, or what is a metaphor or what indeed is a miracle in the context of that particular story. Remember the Bible was written by men, FOR men, in no point did god ever write anything except the 10 Commandments, and even atheists would agree that if everybody followed the 10 Commandments, the world would be a fantastic place. But anyways back to the bible. The bible is a collection of stories that were written for the people of the time otherwise instead of having... 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.' It should read: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his butler, nor his maid, nor his lawn mower, nor his mercedes-benz Comperssor SLK coupe edition, nor anything that is your neighbor's.' If you are going to take the bible literally than ermmmm why should I covet your Ox? Heck I'd pay for you to keep your Ox rather than giving it to me! But anyways the bible has to relate to simple people, so some facts are belittled or trampled over. I'll use an example such as.... uhhhhh.... GCSE Physics, and A - Level Physics. In GCSE physics your are taught concepts which later in A - Level Physics (the following year) are proved to be blatantly false!! The reason? Misguiding you about a certain topic at GCSE level makes other MORE important topics make sense. Similar happens in the Bible. The only guys that take the bible word for word are those people, what are they armish or something, the ones who are permeanently in the 1600's in the US? But anyways more importantly the thing that gets me about people who put down the bible is that they are so caught up in the their anti religious Dogma that they feel to realise that whats important is not whether the whale swallowed Jonah, but what is important is the underlying message behind the story!!!! sh** even if the bible was written by some guy that was waaaaaaay high on something, if everybody followed the basic concepts of the bible then the world would be a much better place wouldnt you agree? As far as proving whether God is True or Fake, I've got a newsflash for your: I don't give a damn either way if you believe or not. The days of converting the world to Christianity are way over Big Steff, so I'm not going to waste the time or effort in proving God's existence to you or to anyone except if they genuinely appreciate what I am trying to tell them, and not go into one ear and out the other. I am highly content with my life and belief, and I hope you are happy in yours believing in whatever you may choose to believe in, otherwise... wouldn't that be a shame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 14, 2003 #75 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I guess this is my way of saying that it doesn't matter what you believe in, either way one of a infinite number of possibilities is correct. Theres no way of saying whether or not one is true, and evidence exists to support almost any theory out there. So why worry about who believes what and just let things be? Perhaps I'm the only one who read this part. I will quote it again, as it seems not to have registered to some people. What bigsteff posted was very insulting and wrong. Obviously his intent was to open up a religious debate, which will not happen. We are all adults here, so lets refrain from the insults. This thread is about creation/evolution, and not about God or the Bible. I can't guarantee this thread won't be locked already, but I do guarantee that another post of insults toward other peoples' religious beliefs will lock this thread. I will make sure of that. Homer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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