Junior Chubb Posted August 1, 2012 #76 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Some people get toasted Some Toasters get toasted too I'll toast to that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted August 2, 2012 #77 Share Posted August 2, 2012 When you discuss Rights, especially the 1st and 2nd Amendments, we don’t talk about the full spectrum. It doesn’t really register with people that Rights are just half of the equation. Along with Rights comes Responsibility. This is what is inalienable and they can never be separated. So Rights become something more than what is *granted* by government. We usually only speak of just Rights but it must be noted that both are included. If you don’t equally exercise your Responsibilities too then the government will. When one reneges on their Responsibility, they then violate someone else’s Rights. Depending on the seriousness of the violation will elicit a protective response of equal kind. This is why one of the charges of this government is “To Establish Justice” Establishing Justice is not a blank check for the government to infringe on the Rights of the people (i.e. gun control). Their job is to see to it that those that violate other’s Rights pay the consequences, not punish those that are Responsible. I have the Right to blow your head off. So why don’t I do that? Because I am Responsible. Most people are. Guns or access to guns is not the problem. People being stupid and irresponsible is. As another poster stated, if they can effectively curtail our 2nd Amendment Rights, it’s not if they take away our 1st Amendment Rights, it’s when! There are just some things that need to be done by “We The People”. Gun ownership is one of them. The 2nd isn’t for just protecting the Rights of hunters or for sport. Not only for home and personal defense. But the primary reason is to defend against our own government. This government must be afraid of the people and if you want to own and can maintain nuclear weapons, more power to you. However, I would think that most people will find armament a little bit less than that is adequate. But if Obamacare stands then I can see a law requiring everyone to purchase and carry a weapon. But I don’t think that everybody needs to (or should) carry but Obamacare will make it impossible to decline. Obamacare sets a precedence. However, for those that would wish to carry, I see part of their Responsibility to be familiar with their weapons. I think they should qualify yearly and go through defensive combat training to allow them to think under fire. If people were licensed that way then the Liberal fear of mass shootouts would not occur. But then Liberals would lose their control over the people. People properly trained would be able to respond to such threats like Aurora in a professional manner. Actions like this will secure our Rights and Responsibilities. And not be enslaved by a Socialist government. Also, parents should teach their children to respect weapons and how to handle them (like it was a few hundred years ago). Take them to a shooting range as early as possible so that they will grow up with respect and not fear. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaraKitty Posted August 2, 2012 #78 Share Posted August 2, 2012 1, it doesn't actually. crimes are still commuted. just as much. sometimes more. 2, you can't compare the rest of the world to usa. gun laws didn't take guns away from any single or groups of criminals in any country. amount of guns in usa is way more than most countries combined. and no laws will change that. 3 culturally usa is different from the rest of the world too, amount of gangs, and just retards that come from the rest of the world is more than anywhere. also you can call me racist, but fact is in usa gun crime is mostly black on black problem, building projects that are several blocks from me see more shootings in a week than my area in years. You have to keep in mind that Zarra comes from a country whos entire population is about the equivalent of one large US city, so our stats sound a bit frightening to her, actually they sound a bit frightening to me too . People who come from less populated countries don't really comprehend, just looking at the numbers, that statsticaly it's actually pretty safe here. That being said, I have noticed that there truly is an unusual ammount of shootings this year even without the red haired freak. Must be 2012-itis or something. edit to add: I've lived here my whole life and have never been anywhere near a gun fired in anger. Shocking but true. Never seen anyone shot, don't know anyone whos been shot. Germany, England AND Australia combined have less gun deaths than America per year. THOSE stats scare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted August 2, 2012 #79 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Germany, England AND Australia combined have less gun deaths than America per year. THOSE stats scare me. well, we pbly commit more crime without guns too, more vehicular manslaughter, more stabbings, more rapes..... don't compare USA to Germany, England AND Australia. we consume pbly more drugs too, we are just more violent country statistically. but usa population is also about 2x bigger than Germany, England AND Australia combined. i have seen data where in uk home invasions robberies and burglaries went up after legal handguns were removed. Edited August 2, 2012 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted August 2, 2012 #80 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Germany, England AND Australia combined have less gun deaths than America per year. THOSE stats scare me. And contain around half of our population combined. Do me a favor a scale up the numbers on the crime statistics for each country and let me know what you come up with. Here's how... Take 314M, the population of our country, divide it by the population(P) for each of those countries and multiply the resulting number(Y) by the number for the crime stat( C) of that country and then compare that number to the matching American stat(X). That'll scale the stats to be in proportion to the US stats. 314,000,000 / P= Y Y x C= X Let me know how those countries X number compares to each American stat. Ok? Thank you Edited August 2, 2012 by Is it for real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted August 2, 2012 #81 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Germany 81M UK 61M Australia 22M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted August 2, 2012 #82 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Germany, England AND Australia combined have less gun deaths than America per year. THOSE stats scare me. Yeah, that scares me too. Humans are naturally violent. You can’t breed it out and you can’t pen it up for very long before it explodes. As we’ve seen with the riots in England and France of late. And there was that little shooting in Norway. And let’s not forget that misunderstanding in Syria or the entire Arab Spring. Government trying to suppress will only result in more violence in the long run. With 7 billion people in this world, you can’t make everyone happy. And unless it leads to security concerns, people need to deal with this violence on their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Terreur Posted August 2, 2012 #83 Share Posted August 2, 2012 well, i guess it's time to let an expert speak: [media=] [/media] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaraKitty Posted August 2, 2012 #84 Share Posted August 2, 2012 well, we pbly commit more crime without guns too, more vehicular manslaughter, more stabbings, more rapes..... don't compare USA to Germany, England AND Australia. we consume pbly more drugs too, we are just more violent country statistically. but usa population is also about 2x bigger than Germany, England AND Australia combined. i have seen data where in uk home invasions robberies and burglaries went up after legal handguns were removed. And that's a good argument to allow guns..? That you're more violent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted August 2, 2012 #85 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Germany, England AND Australia combined have less gun deaths than America per year. THOSE stats scare me. Although it is true that those country have less death by guns it would be flawed to see that only guns are used in crimes. It is also flawed to incriminated the means when causes are to blame. I wrote something about it in my blog below. And that's a good argument to allow guns..? That you're more violent? In case you haven't noticed, making guns illegal to law abiding citizens doesn't and never will stop the bad guys. In France in the past two months (June and July 2012) 14 people have been killed by SKS (Chinese Kalashnikov often confused with the real thing by media although the price is lot lower) and yet France has very strict gun laws. Your argument is a red herring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted August 2, 2012 #86 Share Posted August 2, 2012 And that's a good argument to allow guns..? That you're more violent? that wasn't an argument, it was sarcasm, sorry i wasn't clear, next time i use smiley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted August 2, 2012 #87 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Zarra, you crack me up. You really have a whacky view of what it's like in the USA (too many movies possibly) I was raised in a home that had fire arms. My father had at least one rifle at any given time. That rifle was stashed in a the attic until he took it down to do a little target shooting miles and miles outside of any populated area. That was when I was a kid. I'm now in my mid 40's and my fathers gun hobby has expanded greatly. I don't own any guns but I would guess my father has more than 30 guns. They are kept in a huge metal safe bolted to the floor. Nobody could break into it without TNT. They are not loaded and the ammunition is kept elsewhere. I don't know anyone that carries a gun on them casually like a friggin cowboy, despite the fact that I know people who do have licenses to do so. I work with an Australian girl who was just as freaked out by the thought that there may be a gun nearby as you seem to be. However some coworkers talked her into going out target shooting with a few of us one weekend and now she loves it. If you can imagine that the skill of shooting a bow and arrow at a target is fun just multiply that fun by about 10 and you can picture that shooting a gun is a blast (pun intended). But even in Texas you would be hard put to locate someone carrying a gun on thier hip. I carry a gun on my hip,Everyday and so do most of my friends and Family.I carry 2 guns a colt .45 and/or Ruger.357 magnum,In the city and mostly when on the ranch,While riding the horses,or just walking around my home and property.But thats me,thats how it is here.But yes there are not that many people here in Texas that walk around with a gun on their hip,I am one of a very few people who will.When Im at work i carry a gun on my hip because of my work,I live and spend half of my life on a ranch checking fence lines,Lot of copperheads and the Rattle snakes and everyonce in a while live stock thieves.I don't play when it comes to my life and the others around me,I carry guns and will always carry them,They are part of my life and tools of the trade. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Render Posted August 2, 2012 #88 Share Posted August 2, 2012 1, it doesn't actually. crimes are still commuted. just as much. sometimes more. 2, you can't compare the rest of the world to usa. gun laws didn't take guns away from any single or groups of criminals in any country. amount of guns in usa is way more than most countries combined. and no laws will change that. 3 culturally usa is different from the rest of the world too, amount of gangs, and just retards that come from the rest of the world is more than anywhere. also you can call me racist, but fact is in usa gun crime is mostly black on black problem, building projects that are several blocks from me see more shootings in a week than my area in years. Crimes still happen yes, but i guess that's the whole issue. If you make it too easy for everyone to get a gun than crimes can escalate more easily. Or don't they? For instance, if you have a burglary in let's say Germany ... a small time criminal. They don't get easy access to guns. So okay, a fight can take place it could get heavy .. but mostly it wont escalate until a full on murdercase. Compare that situation in America where even the small time criminal, who gets it in his head that he needs some quick cash, can get a gun very easily (compared to the rest of the world). This situation could go from stealing a bag of chips to killing someone in a fleeting moment of panic. That's the whole issue...the escalation factor. Look at the batman shooting ... yeah you have the same thing sometimes in other world parts, like Breivik. But in most parts of the world ppl can have sickening thoughts, but to bring them to execution is a lot of work (to get all the weapons and whatever), so maybe they're put off more and have more time to come to their senses and doubt themselves. If a weirdo in America has the same thoughts, he can follow up on them more quickly, with less regulations or control. They can easily just fly under the radar cuz it's just easy access. the reason you don't get it is simple, you aren't american, and you don't live in america. also about guns easy to buy, well listen less to reporters, and come here and see things for yourself, and better yet try to buy a gun. Relax, don't shoot me man... i was just talking about how hard it is to comprehend that way of thinking from the outside looking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted August 2, 2012 #89 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (...) Let me know how those countries X number compares to each American stat. Ok? Thank you http://www.gunpolicy...icide/10,69,192 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted August 2, 2012 #90 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Flombie like many non American you err in other form. There are many other way to kill people than guns, it just requires more thinking but trust me, if you look at it with out blinders you will see that numbers are nearly equal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted August 2, 2012 #91 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Well, that wasn't asked for, though. He asked about a chart like this, and I delivered. I did not even comment it, as I am sure everybody on here is smart enough to make up his own mind about this. I'll check on the murder rates, too, though. Just for you. Edited August 2, 2012 by FLOMBIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted August 2, 2012 #92 Share Posted August 2, 2012 http://data.un.org/D...asc,yr:desc&v=1 "Nearly equal" is different, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted August 2, 2012 #93 Share Posted August 2, 2012 And that's a good argument to allow guns..? That you're more violent? Zarra, I note that you still ignore the fact that we have more crime because we have more people. http://www.gunpolicy...icide/10,69,192 So this means that for every 300,000 people we have 2.98 killed by guns? I vote to keep them then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted August 2, 2012 #94 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Crimes still happen yes, but i guess that's the whole issue. If you make it too easy for everyone to get a gun than crimes can escalate more easily. Or don't they? For instance, if you have a burglary in let's say Germany ... a small time criminal. They don't get easy access to guns. So okay, a fight can take place it could get heavy .. but mostly it wont escalate until a full on murdercase. Compare that situation in America where even the small time criminal, who gets it in his head that he needs some quick cash, can get a gun very easily (compared to the rest of the world). This situation could go from stealing a bag of chips to killing someone in a fleeting moment of panic. That's the whole issue...the escalation factor. Look at the batman shooting ... yeah you have the same thing sometimes in other world parts, like Breivik. But in most parts of the world ppl can have sickening thoughts, but to bring them to execution is a lot of work (to get all the weapons and whatever), so maybe they're put off more and have more time to come to their senses and doubt themselves. If a weirdo in America has the same thoughts, he can follow up on them more quickly, with less regulations or control. They can easily just fly under the radar cuz it's just easy access. Relax, don't shoot me man... i was just talking about how hard it is to comprehend that way of thinking from the outside looking in. thearmedcitizen.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted August 2, 2012 #95 Share Posted August 2, 2012 So this means that for every 300,000 people we have 2.98 killed by guns? I vote to keep them then. For every 100.000 people. And that's quite a lot, especially in a highly developed country. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Render Posted August 2, 2012 #96 Share Posted August 2, 2012 thearmedcitizen.com your point being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted August 2, 2012 #97 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Not all U.S. folk own guns for protection or out of fear, I'm one of them. I have all sorts of other things going on for protection or defense, but a gun just isn't one of those things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted August 2, 2012 #98 Share Posted August 2, 2012 your point being? my point is, you're totally wrong, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted August 2, 2012 #99 Share Posted August 2, 2012 For every 100.000 people. And that's quite a lot, especially in a highly developed country. And yet here I am, middle aged and nobody I have ever known has been shot. I'll take my chances. I don't own a gun but I do want the ability and the legal right to own one. If you would rather not have them in Germany that doesn't bother me in the least. I'll bet a Germany without guns makes the whole world feel safer . Sorry I just couldn't resist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted August 2, 2012 #100 Share Posted August 2, 2012 No problem, I have heard all that before. Those Germans are Nazis jokes never get old, right? Why do you want the right and legal ability to own a gun? Really, what for, as it definitely doesn't make your country or you safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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