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jugoso

Guns don´t kill people

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Professor Buzzkill

I was hesitant to post on this topic because i believe this is an American issue. I don't know what its like to have a constitutional right to have a gun, but I am against reducing the rights of ordinary citizens. But most of the arguments here are about ordinary citizens being denied the right to own guns. So i wanted to ask the average American; what would be wrong with licensing guns?

I consider myself a bit of a gun enthusiast. I don't have a gun license but my brother and a friend both do and we go out shooting quite often. Even with our gun laws my friend has both a AK47 and AR15 with the only limitations being the guns are not full auto and the magazine cannot take more than 7 rounds. Hand guns are available as well, but you must belong to a gun club and shoot at their events 8 times a year. I can legally shoot any gun provided a gun license holder is "supervising" me.

Licenses are given after a basic guns safety test and a police background check, preventing criminals from legally owning a gun. This has an added bonus when the police are arresting people on suspicion of a crime, meaning they can be arrested due to unlawful possession of a firearm.

People who want a gun can have pretty much any gun provided they can pass a basic test with only a few weeks passing between applying and owning. I can confidently say is that you just don't see that many guns in my country, especially in urban centres. Most houses do not own firearms and hand guns are virtually non existent. Sure, every now and then someone snaps and shoots someone (more often then not its in a rural area) but, generally it is only one person killed. I think if we had more weapons available there would be more shootings. If i could walk to the shop at any time and buy a firearm without having to go through the licensing process, i eventually would have by now, but to own a firearm you have to put some effort into it.

Now, i am not advocating gun control for the USA because i do not live, nor have i ever lived in America. I am open to any ideas from Americans as to why their system is better then ours. As far as i am concerned, i can own a gun for any legal purpose you can think of if i so desired.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill

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Almighty Krogan

Actually....toasters toast bread :P

Touché

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Jacques Terreur

If guns don't kill people, people do

Then do toasters not toast toast, toast toasts toast.

i'd say "people toast toast", otherwise, it doesn't make sense....

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Almighty Krogan

i'd say "people toast toast", otherwise, it doesn't make sense....

It's just a comparison, don't get your ass in a bunch....

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Almighty Krogan

Toasters don't toast. It still takes a human to load in the bread and then engage the mechanism. Without intent, the toaster just lays there.

A human just initiates the process, the toaster does conduct it.

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Cradle of Fish

I know a lot of people that enjoy target shooting. It is an Olympic sport. Guess there is another purpose. *Snip*.

What came first? Sport shooting or violence? A gun is a weapon, you HAVE to accept that. Otherwise you're side stepping a major part of the issue.

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Jacques Terreur

It's just a comparison, don't get your ass in a bunch....

still better than my ass in a bun....

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ZaraKitty

Zarra, you crack me up. You really have a whacky view of what it's like in the USA (too many movies possibly) I was raised in a home that had fire arms. My father had at least one rifle at any given time. That rifle was stashed in a the attic until he took it down to do a little target shooting miles and miles outside of any populated area. That was when I was a kid. I'm now in my mid 40's and my fathers gun hobby has expanded greatly. I don't own any guns but I would guess my father has more than 30 guns. They are kept in a huge metal safe bolted to the floor. Nobody could break into it without TNT. They are not loaded and the ammunition is kept elsewhere. I don't know anyone that carries a gun on them casually like a friggin cowboy, despite the fact that I know people who do have licenses to do so.

I work with an Australian girl who was just as freaked out by the thought that there may be a gun nearby as you seem to be. However some coworkers talked her into going out target shooting with a few of us one weekend and now she loves it. If you can imagine that the skill of shooting a bow and arrow at a target is fun just multiply that fun by about 10 and you can picture that shooting a gun is a blast (pun intended).

But even in Texas you would be hard put to locate someone carrying a gun on thier hip.

I was told they were allowed to be visible. My bad.

How did anything you say have to with anything I said? Either no guns with strict laws on everything, or everyone has guns visible. The ****ty in-between gets people killed.

Criminals will find guns, and will often just kill other crims for fear of public spotlight. Some innocents get killed in the process but it's a lot less. If you stay out of that scene you should be okay.

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Render

i don't understand the logic of Americans in buying guns ... for example after the batman shooting.

Gun sales went up 40%.

A seller in the newspaper said that he went out for lunch the day of the shooting and when it happened and he got back there was a waiting line in front of his store.

Sooooooo...the only reason the shooting actually took place is because it's ridiculously easy for americans to buy guns..and to solve this problem in their mind is to buy even more guns in a rapid pace.

Maybe they got frightened that because of the shooting there would be more regulations suddenly.

Still, it seemed pretty stupid to frantically go out and buy more guns after such an event. Instead of everyone coming to their senses and realising that the rest of the world is doing better without easy gun access.

There's this english show like Cops, and one episode the officers went to America for a learning experience. The first things that was of course noticable is that all American cops get guns.. In britain and a lot of other world parts this is not the case, since no one else should or has access to guns.

And where do 90% of random shootings occur?

Where do ppl die most of accidental shootings?

That's right, it's america.

I seriously do not get that logic.

It's fine to own guns, but to make it that ridiculously easy..is just plain stupid.

Edited by Render
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ZaraKitty

Then you need to get better glasses.

Everyone who doesn't own a gun is a potential criminal. Including you!

You need to work on your knowledge.

Sport and crime are mutually exclusive.

Well, if you are going to be irresponsible then what would you expect??

No guns would not lower the crime rate. Why do you think that? People will and do commit crime without guns. Do you think if someone wants to kill themselves and they don't have a gun that they aren't going to attempt to take their life? People have been killing ever since Cain. Why do you think it will change today? If you think more people are getting killed today, it's because there are more people. That's it.

BECAUSE IT WORKS EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

Oh my god. HOW DID YOU MISS THAT?!?!!?

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lightly

I would gaurantee and place a hefty bet that someone somewhere has chocked to death on a piece of toast. Likely more than one occurrence. It's time to have a long overdue conversation in this country about chared breads. That means bagels and English muffins too people. Theres no room fr exceptions here.

lol , your right of course.. i knew i should have went with "murdered" by a piece of toast.

... but then again....................

Edited by lightly

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aztek

BECAUSE IT WORKS EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

Oh my god. HOW DID YOU MISS THAT?!?!!?

1, it doesn't actually. crimes are still commuted. just as much. sometimes more.

2, you can't compare the rest of the world to usa. gun laws didn't take guns away from any single or groups of criminals in any country. amount of guns in usa is way more than most countries combined. and no laws will change that.

3 culturally usa is different from the rest of the world too, amount of gangs, and just retards that come from the rest of the world is more than anywhere. also you can call me racist, but fact is in usa gun crime is mostly black on black problem, building projects that are several blocks from me see more shootings in a week than my area in years.

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Babe Ruth

The bottom line is that this person is insane. Taking away my rights to own a gun does nothing to change that. To make this mental health illness issue into a gun control issue is a mistake. The thing that needs to be focused on is legislation that would have made it possible for the psychiatrist treating this head case to report him before he could do harm to himself or others.

Purely hypothetical, but WHAT IF, in this case, the shrink was manipulating the patient? What if the shrink had professional ethical issue before?

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aztek

we still don't know if he was a mental patient, all we have is rumors spread by media, even they say it isn't clear if he was a patient or not. got to love CT types, they already know everything, lol, entire medical history.

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OverSword

No guns would not lower the crime rate. Why do you think that? People will and do commit crime without guns. Do you think if someone wants to kill themselves and they don't have a gun that they aren't going to attempt to take their life? People have been killing ever since Cain. Why do you think it will change today? If you think more people are getting killed today, it's because there are more people. That's it.

You have to keep in mind that Zarra comes from a country whos entire population is about the equivalent of one large US city, so our stats sound a bit frightening to her, actually they sound a bit frightening to me too :innocent: . People who come from less populated countries don't really comprehend, just looking at the numbers, that statsticaly it's actually pretty safe here. That being said, I have noticed that there truly is an unusual ammount of shootings this year even without the red haired freak. Must be 2012-itis or something.

edit to add: I've lived here my whole life and have never been anywhere near a gun fired in anger. Shocking but true. Never seen anyone shot, don't know anyone whos been shot.

Edited by OverSword

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OverSword

Purely hypothetical, but WHAT IF, in this case, the shrink was manipulating the patient? What if the shrink had professional ethical issue before?

Are you implying that the shrink manipulted this guy through drugs, hypnosis, etc. to do a mass murder? Doubtful even for me, and I'm a big time conspiracy theorist.

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Order66

That's because the US has 80% of the scum ... the vermon .. the low-lifes who will keep preying on their victims like parasites, until somebody rains down fire on the b******* sending them back to hell where they belong. :angry:

Edited by Vein Capital
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OverSword

huh?

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Bama13

What came first? Sport shooting or violence? A gun is a weapon, you HAVE to accept that. Otherwise you're side stepping a major part of the issue.

Of course a gun is a weapon, I never said otherwise. I was just responding to the poster that said guns only have one use, killing.

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aztek

i don't understand the logic of Americans in buying guns ... for example after the batman shooting.

Gun sales went up 40%.

A seller in the newspaper said that he went out for lunch the day of the shooting and when it happened and he got back there was a waiting line in front of his store.

Sooooooo...the only reason the shooting actually took place is because it's ridiculously easy for americans to buy guns..and to solve this problem in their mind is to buy even more guns in a rapid pace.

Maybe they got frightened that because of the shooting there would be more regulations suddenly.

Still, it seemed pretty stupid to frantically go out and buy more guns after such an event. Instead of everyone coming to their senses and realising that the rest of the world is doing better without easy gun access.

There's this english show like Cops, and one episode the officers went to America for a learning experience. The first things that was of course noticable is that all American cops get guns.. In britain and a lot of other world parts this is not the case, since no one else should or has access to guns.

And where do 90% of random shootings occur?

Where do ppl die most of accidental shootings?

That's right, it's america.

I seriously do not get that logic.

It's fine to own guns, but to make it that ridiculously easy..is just plain stupid.

the reason you don't get it is simple, you aren't american, and you don't live in america.

also about guns easy to buy, well listen less to reporters, and come here and see things for yourself, and better yet try to buy a gun.

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Rut Roh

This is the thing that I see that most people are missing. The right of the people to keep and bear arms (Amendment II) is a freedom that we, as law abiding citizens, enjoy. Now, true freedom comes with responsibility to the citizen also. If a free citizen CHOOSES to not follow the laws of the land then guess what...he can use the same freedom he has for the purposes of wrongdoing or evil, if you will. Living in a truly free environment is not a guarantee to living in a world of peaches and cream. It actually is MORE responsibility to the individual because of the choices that are afforded them. The fundamental principles this country was founded on was, IMO, about funneling the power and responsibility away from the central government and more toward the individual citizens. Again IMO, what we are seeing in the last century, or so, is a funneling of the power back towards the central government, hence the rub. The government is trying to institute policy to "protect" the populace which in turn limits choices and freedom.

My personal viewpoint would be to let the violence or lawlessness ebb and flow as it does and let the general populace stand up when it gets tired, as it will, of getting bullied. They, the criminal element, are outnumbered considerably. Now, this doesn't mean vigilante justice. It just means let the local citizens work with law enforcement and crack down on the criminals. Dont prohibit them from getting involved, engage them and afford them the ability to help their own situation. You know, freedom. Firearms, or any weapon for that matter, are NOT the problem. It is the people that commit the acts that are the problem. I would rather have the "freedom" to defend myself with a firearm than be told that it is safer that I dont have one and to lose the responsibility that I would never get back.

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Babe Ruth

Are you implying that the shrink manipulted this guy through drugs, hypnosis, etc. to do a mass murder? Doubtful even for me, and I'm a big time conspiracy theorist.

I am wondering if Holmes might have been a subject in a program something like MKUltra. :innocent:

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aztek

I am wondering if Holmes might have been a subject in a program something like MKUltra. :innocent:

lol, if it has been that, than what?

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OverSword

lol, if it has been that, than what?

Then the CIA will shortly be assisnating a few people if they haven't already.

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aztek

Then the CIA will shortly be assisnating a few people if they haven't already.

and we will blame guns, as usual

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