France Plans 75% Tax Rate on the Rich?

[Guest]

Would that be the same type of charity administered with a prayer by the local church run soup kitchen.

How about the sort of international charity with a industrial or military contract dangling off it.

Poor people are victims as much as perpetrators - they don't need you sanctimonious charity - they need roles in society which give their lives meaning. Until that happens they need handouts without all the moral strings attached.

Br Cornelius

[F3SS]

Have you ever considered the possibility that some people might think that arguing that we should let the poor die unaided might be considered just a tad morally suspect?

Noone argued for that. You just keep saying we did. Since you insist on twisting words incesantly, from now on you will be known to me as Twister. All we are saying is you can't help someone forever. Lend them a helping hand, try to guide them on a righteous path. At some point they must help themselves. If they don't, it ain't my fault. I tried. Gotta move on, I've got people I know to take care of. And you should be a little more modest about your IQ and IQ's mean nothing when measuring common sense.

[Mr Right Wing]

Nope. What I do happen to believe in, however, is the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including Article 25:

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

• (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
  

Any more ridiculous sweepingly incorrect generalizations, or do you have them all out of your system now?

Firstly, in a Democracy the EU does not dictate Government policy.

Secondly, in a capitalist state the state benefits are replaced with private insurance policies which are cheaper.

Now I am not so harsh as to say the unemployed, old, young or those not capable of working should go without. Covering just these instead of the entire population would decimate our budget spending. In addition if we -

1. Gave out capital and corporal punishment instead of locking criminals up.

2. Cut education places at College and University to match the availability of professions.

We could save £100's of billions a year. This money is currently being wasted on needless and pointless socialism.

[Mr Right Wing]

if i voted tory that would make me souless and selfish like yourself .there is only one narcissist in this conversation and that is you .its always the same with you right wing types you are always complaining about sharing your toys with people .the thing is those of us with a concience dont mind sharing .we dont want to see people starve so we can drive a big car we want to share so people have a chance in life ,we believe in society as a whole not the needs of the elite in essence we are human where as you appear to be a spoilt little criminal tax evader who was given state subsidised private schooling and now doesnt want anyone else to have a chance in case your pay drops.

again you assume i am in some way jealouse for you you couldnt be further from the truth .i like my life in fact im very happy with who i am. i like it when a kid from a council estate does well for themselves .where as it annoys you because you have an over inflated ego and people with a concience scare you .what you dont seem to be able to grasp is that you are vastly out numbered in your views and as poverty climbs you will become even more out numbered your kind play right into the hands of those socialists you hate so much

Ant Story 1

The worker ant is jealous of the solider ants pay and power.

The jealous ant turns into a Communist.

The jealous ant then demands policies to make the solider ant his equal.

The solider ant says 'on you're bike'

One day the worker ant cheats his way into a solider ant position.

The worker ant discovers he cant do the job.

The worker ants ego implodes.

The worker ant deludes itself with excuses such as 'I wasnt given the right oppourtunies' or 'those above me are corrupt'

The solider ants sit there laughing at the garbage he comes out with.

Ant Story 2

One day our liitle worker ant goes to a Commie Party meeting.

A revolution is declared and they storm the Queens chamber.

The worker ants win and declare a new era of equality.

Now all ants will be paid the same.

The solider ants arent impressed at the reduction in their wages.

The solider ants say 'sod this it I aint lifting a finger'

The colony gets invaded and the worker ants are forced to do the fighting.

They get massacred in their millions.

The moral of the story is you pay people according to their skills and abilities or you demotivate them. Something the USSR learnt the hard way. Doing it through stealth (i.e. taxes for others state benefits) is exactly the same just dressed up differently.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Tiggs]

Noone argued for that. You just keep saying we did. Since you insist on twisting words incesantly, from now on you will be known to me as Twister.

Do feel free to call me any name within your head that you fancy.

If you start calling me names on the forum, however, then the Moderation team will delete your posts under rule 3b. Harassment: Do not harass, defame, threaten, bully or victimize other members, as well as start issuing you with warnings for such. I'm sure that you'll quickly work out how effective a strategy that is.

All we are saying is you can't help someone forever. Lend them a helping hand, try to guide them on a righteous path. At some point they must help themselves. If they don't, it ain't my fault. I tried. Gotta move on, I've got people I know to take care of.

You think that 15 Million people falling off the end of the unemployment line with no money and no government assistance will just magically find employment and or charitable shelter and food?

They won't. Most of them will die. As will those that follow.

You keep using the word we, as if you're all saying the same thing. Some of them, at least, know that the consequences are death for the poor. Why don't you?

And you should be a little more modest about your IQ

Yes, Mom.

It's not something I generally talk about. On the other hand, I'm not going to sit here quietly while listening to eugenicist arguments that Socialists are only Socialists because they have a low IQ

and IQ's mean nothing when measuring common sense.

Generally, what a high IQ score mostly means is that you're really good at doing IQ tests.

[Tiggs]

Firstly, in a Democracy the EU does not dictate Government policy.

Regardless of your hatred for the EU - the UN is not the EU.

Secondly, in a capitalist state the state benefits are replaced with private insurance policies which are cheaper.

How do you pay for those if you've never had a job, exactly? What happens when those private insurance companies go belly up? What happens when you can't get insurance?

Now I am not so harsh as to say the unemployed, old, young or those not capable of working should go without. Covering just these instead of the entire population would decimate our budget spending. In addition if we -

1. Gave out capital and corporal punishment instead of locking criminals up.

How very Saudi Arabian of you.

Whilst corporal punishment may be cheaper, in America, for example, executing a prisoner is more expensive in terms of legal fees for the various appeals than it is to keep them jailed for life.

2. Cut education places at College and University to match the availability of professions.

Who decides how many experienced geologists the country will need in two decades time, exactly?

We could save £100's of billions a year. This money is currently being wasted on needless and pointless socialism.

Or y'know. Not.

[F3SS]

Do feel free to call me any name within your head that you fancy.

If you start calling me names on the forum, however, then the Moderation team will delete your posts under rule 3b. Harassment: Do not harass, defame, threaten, bully or victimize other members, as well as start issuing you with warnings for such. I'm sure that you'll quickly work out how effective a strategy that is.

A slimy power grabbing move. I figured you'd play that card. It's not a bad name, but whatever...

It's not something I generally talk about. On the other hand, I'm not going to sit here quietly while listening to eugenicist arguments that Socialists are only Socialists because they have a low IQ

I don't recall anyone saying anything about IQ socialist relations. It's about common sense and what works in this country. Socialism doesn't. It won't. It can't. We'll see what 75% redistribution of wealth does for France....

[Tiggs]

Is this the same UN that put Saudia Arabia in charge of the Human Rights group?

Which Human Rights Group would that be, exactly?

[Tiggs]

A slimy power grabbing move. I figured you'd play that card. It's not a bad name, but whatever...

I'm not the only moderator on these forums. Just the way it is.

I don't recall anyone saying anything about IQ socialist relations. It's about common sense and what works in this country. Socialism doesn't. It won't. It can't. We'll see what 75% redistribution of wealth does for France....

Maybe you have some people on block, then - which would explain a lot.

The biggest lie of Socialism is that people are equals. Unable to accept that people out there are more intelligent than them the lowly individual thinks he is their equal. Therefore he arrives at the conclusion that his low social status must be because the rich are keeping him down. In his little fantasy world it has nothing to do with him being thick.

Those at the bottom are there because they cant obey the law, lack the mindset to get anywhere in life or have a low IQ. The successful should not be punished or held back because of them. Its undoing 3 billion years of evolution.

[Tiggs]

Really? I give you an example of a real honest situation and this is the best you could come up with?

Did I ask you to provide an example?

There are over 45 million people in US poverty. While your particular story may be of utmost importance to you personally, statistically it's insignificant and so discussing it as if it's representative of US poverty in general is pointless.

However - prompting you to think that there may be something deeper that's causing your Daughter's situation than the blanket "It's all society's fault" answer that you're currently willing to settle for is exactly the best I could come up with. For you, and for her, hopefully.

[Mr Right Wing]

1. Regardless of your hatred for the EU - the UN is not the EU.

2. How do you pay for those if you've never had a job, exactly?

3. What happens when those private insurance companies go belly up? What happens when you can't get insurance?

4. How very Saudi Arabian of you.

5. Whilst corporal punishment may be cheaper, in America, for example, executing a prisoner is more expensive in terms of legal fees for the various appeals than it is to keep them jailed for life.

6. Who decides how many experienced geologists the country will need in two decades time, exactly?

Or y'know. Not.

1. Thats okay EU is a typo.

2. Instead of applying socialist polices state wide you apply it to the limited instances its needed. The young, old, umemployed or those not capable of working. As I wrote.

3. No problem covering execeptions either as its still far cheaper.

4. Thanks. Eye for an eye.

5. Beat minor criminals, torture major ones and for those that are too sick for words the death penalty. The process is only expense if the justice system is weak like Americas. 1 automatic appeal 3 months after convinction to test the case followed by a bullet to the brain.

6. A rare profession like geology does not require 500 graduates a year (more like 5). Thats from a UK perspective.

[Tiggs]

1. Thats okay EU is a typo.

Then the UK should probably stop ratifying all those UN charters, don't you think?

2. Instead of applying socialist polices state wide you apply it to the limited instances its needed. The young, old, umemployed or those not capable of working. As I wrote.

Other than the unemployed - who do you think gets paid unemployment benefit, exactly?

3. No problem covering execeptions either as its still far cheaper.

Evidence, please.

4. Thanks. Eye for an eye.

How wonderfully pre-Christian of you.

5. Beat minor criminals, torture major ones and for those that are too sick for words the death penalty. The process is only expense if the justice system is weak like Americas. 1 automatic appeal 3 months after convinction to test the case followed by a bullet to the brain.

Because evidence pertinent to the case is never processed incorrectly or ever turns up later than 3 months after the conviction?

6. A rare profession like geology does not require 500 graduates a year (more like 5). Thats from a UK perspective.

Who has a crystal ball to say that it's rare in 20 years? The same guy who in the 1950's confidently predicted that the world would only ever need 5 computers?

[Mr Right Wing]

1. Then the UK should probably stop ratifying all those UN charters, don't you think?

2. Other than the unemployed - who do you think gets paid unemployment benefit, exactly?

3. Evidence, please.

4. How wonderfully pre-Christian of you.

5. Because evidence pertinent to the case is never processed incorrectly or ever turns up later than 3 months after the conviction?

6. Who has a crystal ball to say that it's rare in 20 years? The same guy who in the 1950's confidently predicted that the world would only ever need 5 computers?

1. You know full well we are a Democracy. We havent had a Conservative Government in a long time (without Liberal looneys).

2. I didnt say other than umemployed.

3. State is more expensive than private. I would have though someone with a 'genius IQ' could have figured that one out lol.

4. You think Christains didnt do eye for an eye?

5. It does more good and is cheaper executing murderers and finding out a few were innocent than executing no one. Liberal-socialist values applied to crime are why society is in the condition that it is. Bullet to the brain, torture or broken legs depending on the crime will quickly sort that out.

6. Correct and I would have thought someone with a 'genius IQ' would have realised that if more geologists are needed 20 years in the future we would then increase how many we train appropiately lol.

[Tiggs]

1. You know full well we are a Democracy. We havent had a Conservative Government in a long time (without Liberal looneys).

Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy. Regardless - Are you saying that being a Democracy has anything at all to do with the Government being able to negotiate and sign treaties?

2. I didnt say other than umemployed.

So all state benefits, other than unemployment? Such as.... Child benefit? You're thinking of privatizing that, are you?

3. State is more expensive than private. I would have though someone with a 'genius IQ' could have figured that one out lol.

Again. Please provide actual evidence that privatizing the benefit system would save money over the current state system. As opposed to just your dogmatic opinion.

4. You think Christains didnt do eye for an eye?

That whole Jesus part of Christianity completely went over you head, didn't it?

5. It does more good and is cheaper executing murderers and finding out a few were innocent than executing no one.

In which case, I vote you first, then.

6. Correct and I would have thought someone with a 'genius IQ' would have realised that if more geologists are needed 20 years in the future we would then increase how many we train appropiately lol.

So you're going to create a Time Machine to get someone with 20 years experience, are you?

Edited August 18, 2012 by Tiggs

[Mr Right Wing]

1. Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy. Regardless - Are you saying that being a Democracy has anything at all to do with the Government being able to negotiate and sign treaties?

2. So all state benefits, other than unemployment? Such as.... Child benefit? You're thinking of privatizing that, are you?

3. Again. Please provide actual evidence that privatizing the benefit system would save money over the current state system. As opposed to just your dogmatic opinion.

4. That whole Jesus part of Christianity completely went over you head, didn't it?

5. In which case, I vote you first, then.

6. So you're going to create a Time Machine to get someone with 20 years experience, are you?

1. You know full well in our Democracy the parties in power decide what they sign the state up too.

2. So you are now ignoring what I wrote? Sure thats going to make you win the argument.

3. So you're the only person on Earth who thinks private isnt cheaper than state?

4. Read the Bible. Its full of corporal and capital punishment. Its full of eye for an eye.

5. Charming.

6. If there are 5 geologist positions and 500 with the qualification then I hate to point it out to you but its likely 480 will never get any experience. So what use are the other 480? None. For the 5 positions we should educate the top 20 in the degree. If more jobs become available we can increase this figure.

I think my IQ is bigger than yours lol.

[F3SS]

I'm not the only moderator on these forums. Just the way it is.

Maybe you have some people on block, then - which would explain a lot.

Noone is blocked. Your ability to comprehend is blocking you from understanding simple statements. Mr. Rightwing said that a low iq is one of several possibilities of how someone cant "make it" in any type of society. He, like I, never said that socialistic ideologist and low iq goes hand in hand.

I don't follow your every post but how many times has someone replied to you with "I never said that" or "I didn't say that"? I would guess a whole lot since I've witnessed and said it a ton of times in just a couple of recent threads. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you have to put words in their mouth and create your own narrative of what opposing views are like.

We say "I'll help you but you got to help yourself eventually". You turn that into "here's a nickel, now go jump off a bridge".

[Mr Right Wing]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you have to put words in their mouth and create your own narrative of what opposing views are like.

Its called trolling and he should give himself a 1 month ban for doing it lol.

Bad Mod

Edited August 19, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Guest]

Its called trolling and he should give himself a 1 month ban for doing it lol.

Bad Mod

A troll calling out troll. Funny.

My definition of a troll "Someone who makes inflammatory comments and who is not interested in debating facts".

Br Cornelius

[Mr Right Wing]

A troll calling out troll. Funny.

My definition of a troll "Someone who makes inflammatory comments and who is not interested in debating facts".

Br Cornelius

Which you are famous for.

[Guest]

Which you are famous for.

Famous for asking to discuss facts rather than opinion. Thanks for recognizing it for once

Br Cornelius

[Mr Right Wing]

Famous for asking to discuss facts rather than opinion. Thanks for recognizing it for once

Br Cornelius

Famous for ignorig facts, ignoring evidence and playing Mr Osterich.

Marxism is correct, I'm going to distort everything to make it correct and bury my head in the sand when anybody says anything I dont want to her. Mr Osterich lol.

[Guest]

Famous for ignorig facts, ignoring evidence and playing Mr Osterich.

Marxism is correct, I'm going to distort everything to make it correct and bury my head in the sand when anybody says anything I dont want to her. Mr Osterich lol.

Are you ready to prove that the American Health Insurance system is more efficient than the NHS with some actual facts - or are you going to continue blustering that one

Of course that just one example where you choose opinion over facts

Its would all be a bit tragic really - if I couldn't have a good belly laugh about it all.

Br Cornelius

Edited August 19, 2012 by Guest

[Mr Right Wing]

Are you ready to prove that the American Health Insurance system is more efficient than the NHS with some actual facts - or are you going to continue blustering that one

Of course that just one example where you choose opinion over facts

Its would all be a bit tragic really - if I couldn't have a good belly laugh about it all.

Br Cornelius

You've had your flawed logic pointed out to you before.

It isnt about American Health insurance vs NHS its about private UK health insurance vs NHS.

Yet again a distortion to fit you Marxist world view which is about to be brushed under the carpet as usual isnt it Mr Osterich?

[Guest]

You've had your flawed logic pointed out to you before.

It isnt about American Health insurance vs NHS its about private UK health insurance vs NHS.

Yet again a distortion to fit you Marxist world view which is about to be brushed under the carpet as usual isnt it Mr Osterich?

But you failed to show that a British fully private health system is cheaper than the NHS. So you still avoided supporting your failed logic.

Remember that the UK private health industry externalises most of its costs onto the NHS and so current rates of insurance are not comparable to the NHS in any meaningful way. It is only meaningful to compare a fully private health system (such as the USA) to the NHS - which I did.

I think its your logic which is grossly flawed - again.

Br Cornelius

[Tiggs]

1. You know full well in our Democracy the parties in power decide what they sign the state up too.

Then - as they were Democratically elected - what is it exactly that you're complaining about?

2. So you are now ignoring what I wrote? Sure thats going to make you win the argument.

What you've written isn't at all clear. Hence my attempt at clarification. If you don't have a clear premise then there's really no argument to be won, is there?

3. So you're the only person on Earth who thinks private isnt cheaper than state?

Only religious beliefs deal in absolutes.

There are several examples where exactly the opposite of your claim is true - where privatization has increased the costs of something previously run by the state. For example, the UK railway industry has seen a permanent increase in costs of between 20 to 30% due to fragmentation.

So. Evidence, please.

4. Read the Bible. Its full of corporal and capital punishment. Its full of eye for an eye.

Matthew 5

³⁸ “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.

³⁹ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

⁴⁰ And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

⁴¹ If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.

⁴² Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

That was said by some guy called Jesus. Apparently, he's pretty important to Christians. Who'd have guessed?

5. Charming.

Y'know - if you're not willing to be shot in the head for a crime you didn't commit - why do you think anyone else will be?

6. If there are 5 geologist positions and 500 with the qualification then I hate to point it out to you but its likely 480 will never get any experience. So what use are the other 480? None. For the 5 positions we should educate the top 20 in the degree. If more jobs become available we can increase this figure.

I'm sure that waiting the 8 or so years it'd take for someone to get a Ph D. when those job openings start to appear will be entirely optimal.

How about you let the free market decide what the future holds in terms of demand rather than you limiting the country's future potential with your finger-in-the-air statist planning techniques?

Let me share a secret with you. There are lots of jobs that require a Degree, but aren't particularly specific about which field that degree is actually in.

True story.

I think my IQ is bigger than yours lol.

You use the word "lol" in written conversation. I rest my case.