Bushes backed Nazi's : Proof

[Babe Ruth]

China is more corrupt that the West.

Its not the Capitalist economic system which is flawed its the inability of past Governments to correctly regulate bankers using audits.

A very good point, but I would further refine it to "inability of politicians to resist being bought by special interests." Or "inability of politicians to govern in accordance with the law." Or something like that.

[Mr Right Wing]

A very good point, but I would further refine it to "inability of politicians to resist being bought by special interests." Or "inability of politicians to govern in accordance with the law." Or something like that.

Its sill being investigated but yes that could be true. But still its less than China.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Guest]

A lot depends on how you define corruption. Is lobbying corruption ? Are price fixing cartels corruption ? Is buying up the competition to close them down corruption ?

All of these are extremely common in the Western nations.

Br Cornelius

[Guest]

National Socialism (common English short form Nazism, German: Nationalsozialismus) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany.^[1][2][3][4] It is a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism.^[5] Nazism used elements of the far-right racist Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture which fought against the communists in post-World War I Germany.^[6] It was designed to draw workers away from communism and into Völkisch nationalism.^[7] Major elements of Nazism have been described as far-right^{[weasel words]}, such as allowing domination of society by people deemed racially superior, while purging society of people declared inferior.^[8]

Nazism claimed that the so-called Aryan master race was superior to all other races.^[9] To maintain what it regarded as the purity and strength of the Aryan race, the Nazis sought to exterminate Jews, Romani, and the physically and mentally disabled.^[10] Other groups deemed "degenerate" or "asocial" received exclusionary treatment by the Nazi state and included homosexuals, blacks, Jehovah's Witnesses and political opponents.^[10] The Nazis promoted German territorial expansionism to gain Lebensraum ("living space") for German settlers.^[11] Nazism rejected democracy because it believed Jews used it for their self-preservation.^[12]

Nazi Führer Adolf Hitler had objected to the party's previous leader's decision to use the word "Socialist" in its name as Hitler at the time instead preferred to use "Social Revolutionary".^[13] Upon taking over the leadership, Hitler kept the term but defined "socialism" as meaning a commitment of an individual to a community.^[13] Hitler also claimed that unconditional equality of opportunity for all "racially sound" Aryan males was the essence of the "Socialism" of "National Socialism".^[14] Initially, Nazi political strategy used anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric.^[15] This was downplayed in the 1930s to gain the support of industrial owners, and it shifted more to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes.^[15] Nazism favoured private property, freedom of contract, and promoted the creation of national solidarity that would transcend class differences.^[16][17] The Nazis outlawed strikes by employees and lockouts by employers, because these were regarded a threat to national unity.^[18] Instead, the state controlled and approved wage and salary levels.^[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

The use of the term National Socialist was nothing more than a rhetorical ploy.

Many conservatives insist that the Nazis were an example of a 'socialist' government as part of their effort to discredit socialism and leftist policies in general. This is rather like using the example of East Germany, the German Democratic Republic, to discredit democracy: it demonstrates the speaker's inability to comprehend reality.

Silent Bob explains how and why the Nazi party was not particularly socialist:

The idea that workers controlled the means of production in Nazi Germany is a bitter joke. It was actually a combination of aristocracy and capitalism.

Technically, private businessmen owned and controlled the means of production.

The Nazi "Charter of Labor" gave employers complete power over their workers. It established the employer as the "leader of the enterprise," and read: "The leader of the enterprise makes the decisions for the employees and laborers in all matters concerning the enterprise."

The employer, however, was subject to the frequent orders of the ruling Nazi elite. After the Nazis took power in 1933, they quickly established a highly controlled war economy under the direction of Dr. Hjalmar Schacht.

Prior to the Nazi seizure of power in 1933, worker protests had spread all across Germany in response to the Great Depression. During his drive to power, Hitler exploited this social unrest by promising workers to strengthen their labor unions and increase their standard of living.

But these were empty promises; privately, he was reassuring wealthy German businessmen that he would crack down on labor once he achieved power.

The Nazis abolished trade unions, collective bargaining and the right to strike. An organization called the "Labor Front" replaced the old trade unions, but it was an instrument of the Nazi party and did not represent workers.

According to the law that created it, "Its task is to see that every individual should be able... to perform the maximum of work." Workers would indeed greatly boost their productivity under Nazi rule but they also became exploited. Between 1932 and 1936, workers wages fell, from 20.4 to 19.5 cents an hour for skilled labor, and from 16.1 to 13 cents an hour for unskilled labor.

http://atheism.about...r-socialism.htm

Br Cornelius

Edited August 14, 2012 by Guest

[Guest]

The Nazi Party got financing from banks, industry and business owners just like every other party does. While they would have been promised things in return the Nazi state was not setup for them. It was setup to serve the interests of the German people.

Traditionally socialist parties do not get financed by Business - they are financed by Union subscriptions.

I am not aware of any business which financially backed any of the Communist revolutionary parties either.

So going cap in hand to the biggest businesses is rather out of character for a "socialist" party.

It seems that the reality is that Nazism was a strange corporatist stateist hybrid which doesn't fit neatly into a right or left wing dichotomy. What also appears clear is that the current state of American society is a strange hybrid of corporatist stateism which has favoured corporations which benefit from state protection and favours. The parallels are remarkable. The Bush dynasty with their revolving door practice of switching between business and politics and offering favours to those businesses they are attached to, seems also to show parallels to Nazi practice.

As in all things - rarely is reality as black and white as the theory would suggest.

Br Cornelius

Edited August 14, 2012 by Guest

[Helen of Annoy]

Well, I don't think that was called for I am sorry too, for clicking on this topic, but I have a reply anyway ...

I apologise for my colourful style. It is not directed against you or meant to hurt you. It’s just the way I talk so it’s the way I write.

I’m sorry too for clicking it, because it reminds me how obvious and how devastating for everyone is this, what do you call it, liberal capitalism? It’s greed unleashed, greed established as religion.

Put moral aside, logic will tell you that can’t go on forever. Not to re-elaborate what others elaborated before me, in far more eloquent fashion.

I will give you an example, the NLRB lawsuit against Boeing:

http://www.manufactu...n-new-agreement

Boeing decided to build a plant in South Carolina, and all of a sudden union thugs backed by Nancy Pelosi and every crooked crony filed a lawsuit for not opening the plant in Washington. Who cares about people in South Carolina that could use the jobs in a down economy, the union thugs in Washington have to get their piece of pie. Boeing ended up settling with a big payout to the unions. Who pays the cost? It is passed down to the consumer ...

Exactly, passed down to the consumer. I don’t know about your unions, but over here union people (those on top, not we, common members) are notorious scumbags who would sell their mother for bag of my chips.

And even if that wasn’t so ugly, even if we had saints in unions, what could we change? Nothing. We can only watch one business after another close, because production is cheaper in China.

All the babble about free market could be boiled down to that: it’s cheaper in China. We can have a group hug now. Because when various loans and crumbs off the tables are spent, someone will notice your own market has no demand anymore (because you are jobless and broke) but Chinese demand is growing (because they are paid crappy but that’s still more than your zero) and when that day comes, you are of no use anymore to your gods of greed.

And when you are of no use in liberal capitalism... tsk tsk... go under the bridge to die. If you find a spot among growing under-the-bridge crowd.

Hilarious part: that's when extremist options jump in, get acclamations, and you don't even have to burn Reichstag to get rid of "democracy" as we know it.

Obama has cost us hundreds of billions of dollars on stimulus bills to pay government workers at every level to maintain the failed status quo, GM has lost more money than it was given in the bailout, green energy business have failed. I wish profit would guide it!

Profit guides it, like I said, profit for the handful of parasites that sit on top, not profit for your society. If they were guided by potential benefits for the society I wouldn’t say a word, I’d bow.

We don’t even know who set up what for whom, who got what share for destroying what and so on. What we do know is the situation. Look around. How many calm, reasonably happy people with steady income and still reasonably lot of time to spend with their families are there? Less and less with each day, at least in my part of the world.

We are gone, you are next. Pardon my defeatism. And all because few jerks with small d**** have constant craving for more money, so they can buy bigger yachts, planes and cars to show to the world their dick is small.

[smurf0852]

Bush was a Conservative not a Socialist so stop calling him a Nazi. If you're going to give out derogatory labels to people at least get the right ones.

lol so let me gat this right in my head as once again you seem to try and fold reality into your own paper plane .oswald mosley of black shirt fame who got his backside kicked by a load of jewish and immigrant workers at the battle of cable street, along with most of the english aristocracy were socialists not right wing at all .is this what you are trying to say to defend the stupidity of a us president who is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people.

[smurf0852]

Now you start with the conspiracy theories, ridiculas.

The Nazi Party got financing from banks, industry and business owners just like every other party does. While they would have been promised things in return the Nazi state was not setup for them. It was setup to serve the interests of the German people.

Lets say this clearly for you - National Socialist Workers Party - The Nazi party were not Conservatives or Capitalists they were Socialists. They were like the UKs Labour Party except they were also racist, xenophobic and imperialistic.

I'm tired of arguing with someone who has no clue. Do you even know what day it is?

you sir are a buffoon of the highest order .if i was to start a party called the do not execute people party win an election and start executing people would that mean i was against the death penalty ?

[questionmark]

Now you start with the conspiracy theories, ridiculas.

The Nazi Party got financing from banks, industry and business owners just like every other party does. While they would have been promised things in return the Nazi state was not setup for them. It was setup to serve the interests of the German people.

Lets say this clearly for you - National Socialist Workers Party - The Nazi party were not Conservatives or Capitalists they were Socialists. They were like the UKs Labour Party except they were also racist, xenophobic and imperialistic.

I'm tired of arguing with someone who has no clue. Do you even know what day it is?

If you knew as much about Hitler as you claim you would know that the "Socialist" part of the NSDAP was a ploy by Hugenberg to get worker's support. There was nothing "socialist" there.