Are Ghosts Mentally Ill?

[HollyDolly]

Well it might be as you say.My mom died in 1982,my dad in 1996. I once in awhile have a dream with one or both in it,but they don't haunt me. They are I'm sure happy in whatever place in Heaven they are at. Like all of us, they had their good and bad points. However, both shared a belief in a loving God, and had no fear of Him.Whatever their sins, they believed they would be forgiven.My dad when ill said he wasn't afraid of dying, having stared it in the face during the war.

For others, there those who don't want to die,they still want to experience life in all it's form,or they might have unfinished business. They spiritually haven't evovled,and so maybe stuck on a lower plane, than other spirits. And I would also assume that those who were in mental hospitals might act the same way as they did in life.

We won't know the answers ourselves until we pass on,but you make some good points.

[JGirl]

as was pointed out in another thread (about nde) one is not actually dead when they experience it.

that's why it's called a near death experience, not a death experience. although countless people have related similar experiences it isn't death they've experienced or they would not be here to tell about it.

in my opinion using examples from those who've had a near death experience is not relevant to this discussion, which isn't really a discussion at all - more like bickering over a point that should have rendered this topic moot.

Edited October 31, 2012 by JGirl

[SSilhouette]

There have been many cases where people are clinically dead, sometimes for hours and then are revived. You still haven't accounted for their experiences that took them to remote places [while their body lay on a marble slab or long covered with a sheet on a gurney] where they came back and described details they could not possibly have known.

[JGirl]

There have been many cases where people are clinically dead, sometimes for hours and then are revived. You still haven't accounted for their experiences that took them to remote places [while their body lay on a marble slab or long covered with a sheet on a gurney] where they came back and described details they could not possibly have known.

please provide sources for your claims, especially those which prove that they were pronounced clinically dead.

[adrianz2493]

That's actually very interesting, I never thought of it that way. I mean I'm pretty sure spirits do exist or any energy that's left by us. I'm not sure but I do believe some spirits or energy stay here because they believe that they are still alive. I mean it kinda makes sense. But is just my opinion of course.

[SSilhouette]

I will post the link to this site below. There are hundreds if not thousands of accounts to read there. I'll give excerpts of a few of them here:

Barbra gently explained that I could not possibly have gotten out of bed. She made no comment about my choice of language. Then after lowering the side rails, she helped me to sit on the edge of the bed. With me holding onto the IV stand as a crutch and Barbra holding me up on the other side, she helped me to stand. I was quite shaky and it was one of the most difficult things I have ever done. But the paralyses went away, some.

I had been wearing an open-back hospital robe. (At this point, modesty was not an issue.) But Barbra told me my family had brought me some new clothing, including some shorts. They were in the closet, which was a cabinet (a wardrobe) by the window. It stood away from the wall and was maybe six feet tall with two doors in the front and a drawer in the bottom. As she was helping me into my shorts, I told her I just remembered that someone had left an L.E.D. sign on the top of the wardrobe. I could tell it shocked her when I said this.

She asked, “What did it say?” I explained that the sign had not been not turned on, so it had been dark. Then she helped me back into bed and said she would be right back. She returned with a doctor who questioned me about the sign.

I told him that the sign was twenty-four inches long by four inches wide. It had a dark color (black or gray) plastic face with red L.E.Ds. It was not turned on, so it had no message. The doctor stood on a chair to get the sign and lifted it up so I could see it. It was the same sign that I had just described. Then he explained that it had been left high up in the room to help with a study of Out Of Body Experiences http://www.nderf.org...opher_m_nde.htm

I could see my ambulance stopped on the side of the road while the EMTs were working on me because I had bled out and had no pulse or breathing function. [The Life Flight chopper had been grounded due to fog.] Suddenly I found myself inside the car which my husband and my brother were driving to the hospital. My brother was holding a gun and was telling my husband if I didn't make it that he was going to kill him, as well. I was screaming at my brother, "NO! NO!" but he could not hear me...

..The EMT that was working on me later said he saw my lips move even though I was not breathing, and so he slapped me really hard. Then I started breathing again and showing a weak pulse. Later, in surgery, I left again. This time I was in a cold, cave-like tunnel with water running down the walls. I looked ahead down the tunnel and an awful heat hit my face, taking my breath away, choking me. I could see people reaching out of the bottom of the tunnel for me. I remember wanting to give them a drink of the water that was running down the walls but I was told I could not. Then I was told that I was not going to die now, but that I had been shown both sides of the afterlife and it was up to me to choose which place I would eventually go to. I realized I was being given another chance. When I awoke in ICU, I signaled for a pen and paper (I was on life support and could not speak) and asked for my brother, the one who had been in the car with my husband. Neither of them had arrived yet. I never told anyone why I had wanted to see him. Later, after I had recovered, he told me about threatening my husband. It was exactly what I had witnessed in my out-of-body experience. http://www.nderf.org...ammie_w_nde.htm

]When I entered the operating room and was given anesthesia, they told me to count. I opened my eyes but I had no body. I was seeing everything that was happening from the ceiling. I saw myself sleeping and the doctors operating on me, and I was amazed to see that in the room there was another person who they were operating on. I thought, Wow, the operating room is shared. I was conscious that I was up above without a body, but it was strange sensation. I was not scared at all; it was as if nothing mattered. I could see without eyes. Later, I watched as they transferred me out of the operating room to another place. The hours passed and I kept watching myself sleep, but I didn’t feel tired, nor was I hungry. It was a strange feeling. I watched as the nurses came to check on me frequently. I realized it was because it was past the time that I should have woken up, but I kept sleeping. The doctors got scared and I saw that they gave me a shot in my leg. I felt that whatever was holding me up above had broken, and all of the sudden I had a body. When I awoke, I thought that it was all a dream. But upon leaving the recovery room, I saw the boy that they had been operating on with me in the operating room. I realized that it really was true that my spirit had left my body. http://www.nderf.org...ndy_m_obe.htm [/b]

]I remained floating serenely above my body until I was taken to the operating theater. Once there, my mother-in-law and grandmother vanished. In their place, beside my bed, appeared my late grandfather, clad in a white coat. (He had been a general practitioner/ doctor during his life. However, I had never met him, as he had died when I was seven years old!) He spoke to me about the details of my medical issues and pointed out in terms of centimeters exactly where in my abdomen the three main internal infections were located. He specified this medical information in Latin (I don't speak Latin, but I understood him) and then he, too, disappeared. I immediately re-entered my body, and so I was able to repeat everything my grandfather had just told me, while the surgeon wrote down detailed notes and my husband listened. [/b]

A couple of days after the (successful) surgery, I talked with the surgeon. He said he had never spoken to anyone in my condition, (CRP327 – i.e. in such a lot of pain), who had been able to talk so clearly. Also he had never had access before a surgery to such accurate information on where to find the main infected areas. He said that my grandfather's directions, had told him to move certain internal organs aside to get to the third infected location. Without my grandfather's information, he could easily have missed it, especially since at admission, they had diagnosed me with only two internal infections, not three. It was exactly as my grandfather had described it. He had said that there was an area of infected fluid in a "hidden" part of my pelvis and had described, in terms of centimeters, exactly where to drain this infected fluid. It was beneath a bleeding point. http://www.nderf.org.../anna_w_nde.htm

.

Edited November 6, 2012 by SSilhouette

[JGirl]

i'm not asking for personal accounts. they carry no weight with respect to evidence of being clinically dead.

i want to see the documentation that these people were truly clinically dead.

[SSilhouette]

Then you wouldn't be satisfied with a jury's verdict on any case since most evidence is eyewitnesses. Thousands of eyewitness accounts are impressive enough for me. There seems to be something going on.

[JGirl]

Then you wouldn't be satisfied with a jury's verdict on any case since most evidence is eyewitnesses. Thousands of eyewitness accounts are impressive enough for me. There seems to be something going on.

ok you don't seem to get it, do you...

it's not enough to just say 'this' or 'that' happened when in a debate. you are making a claim that has no concrete proof. that's fine if you're just talking out your @ss, but you are trying to make it fact here when it is not proven.

it's not that i want to discount what they are saying they experienced, i am simply trying to get at the so called facts you are presenting in this thread.

to begin with i don't see how the topic of nde's is even relevent to your claim that some 'ghosts' are mentally ill, never mind whether they (the ones who have the experience) are clinically dead or not at the time.

you are jumping around changing gears because your original argument is not going the way you would like.

being impressive enough for you is fine - for you. it doesn't wash in a structured argument though, sorry. there may well be something going on but it's not tied in to what you're trying to imply here.

[JGirl]

Then you wouldn't be satisfied with a jury's verdict on any case since most evidence is eyewitnesses.

actually this is not the case.

actually eyewitness accounts are not strong evidence at all, and they do not make up the majority of evidence in a given case brought before a jury.

where do you get this stuff?.

[keninsc]

How am I supposed to know?! lol

If i knew thta I'd unlock the secrets of the "other side" if there is one. lol

I see it more like you give positive or negative. Like when you love somehting so much it can cause positive energy to manifest. When you ahte too much or die horirble their is amanifestation of negative energy. I don't see it as part of you, jsut more like giving off body ehat sort of thing. But this is jsut my personal view. I don't base it on much. Well except the fact if you are nice to 1 person it can chnage the world as it carries on, which I see as positive energy being created. Again sadly the same applies for negative. But you need both to exist otherwise the other wouldn't.

Well, all my energy in Nam was pretty negative, which probably explains why I try to only pass on positive energy now. I have a lot to make up for. Que Sera Sera.

[SSilhouette]

We are talking about people that have died and are stuck. I suppose that could apply to when they were alive also.

[SSilhouette]

The whole point of my bringing up this topic is to find a way through discussion to help trapped spirits be free from the chains that bind them to the physical world to the unhealth of themselves and those poor people who find themselves in homes [often bought with people's life savings] that are infested with these lingering fixations.

[JGirl]

The whole point of my bringing up this topic is to find a way through discussion to help trapped spirits be free from the chains that bind them to the physical world to the unhealth of themselves and those poor people who find themselves in homes [often bought with people's life savings] that are infested with these lingering fixations.

except you are not having a discussion.

you are jumping around making baseless claims to support your topic of the moment on this thread.

you started out claiming that ghosts are mentally ill.

then you went on to bring up NDEs for some reason i still haven't figured out because you now are avoiding that.

then you said you are talking about spirits that are trapped.

throughout this thread you have not addressed any of the posts of those who have challenged or requested substantiation.

you just keep switching gears.

please address my posts if you want to have a discussion. or is it that you only want to discuss with those who share your belief? if that is the case you are in the wrong site.

all points of view are allowed here.

[SSilhouette]

I gave you links and quotes for the NDEs. I have answered your questions one by one. I have tied in the NDEs to the discussion of "proof that the afterlife exists" which is what you're trying to assert isn't true. That was my response to your asssertion. Remember? Sure you do.

What it seems like now is that you are trolling me and want me to give up discussing ghosts, their potential mental illness and the utility of understanding that when going to rid a place of infestation. You understand how it all fits together. Please stop trying to pretend that you don't.

[SSilhouette]

For those who want to consider the topic viable, the discussion continues.

I've had some good results in confronting infested locations in dreaming. In fact, my intense dreaming started in a house that had paranormal activity. As a child, my room was the only one in the house that none of the family pets would go near. All the other rooms the pets wandered in and out of freely. At my doorway they would freeze in their tracks staring in at the ceiling with wild eyes and then bolt down the hallway. Once my brother and I succeeded in dragging our pet beagle into the room as she whined and protested, dragging her claws in the carpet. When we shut the door to my room with her inside, she bolted to the opposite corner, crouched very low with all the hair up on her back and began snarling and whining alternately, huge dialted pupils staring up at the corner of the ceiling on the opposite side, just above my closet. We took pity on her and opened the door. That old, fat, arthritic dog shot out of that room like a greased rocket. We never tried to get her in there again.

In this room I had nightly nightmares for years from a period of when I was old enough to remember to just around pre-puberty. Morning after morning my parents would find me in the hallway with my blankie, curled up next to the heat register. The nightmares consisted of demonic beings who, to put it in simple terms, were engaged in trying to "win me over" to their way of thinking. They alternated between using fear to force me and then coaxing me, assuring me that if I would just submit "life will be easier for you". Imagine all that as you're trying to grapple with the waking world, the newness of elementary school and various dramas of life as a very young child? It was trying.

The nightmares ended in a final showdown where one of the demon-things had me trapped in a room with no windows and no doors. He told me that if I wanted out, I had to submit to "their way". If not he'd keep me trapped in there forever. I squared my shoulders and told him for the final time in a clear and loud voice, "NO!!, I'll never go your way!" At that moment a door opened up in the side of the wall and I walked out. The nightmares ended on that very same day and have never returned. But since then I've experienced what I call an expansion in dreaming. I have lucid dreams almost every night now. Earlier I learned to "fly", to move objects with my mind and other difficult feats...all in dreaming mind you. But in the last ten years odd things have been spilling over into my waking life. About the same time people started seeing my double http://www.unexplain...opic=232445&hl= small children, very small, like from infant to 5 years old, will pass me and suddenly burst into a huge smile and try to grab out to me, often to the surprise of their handlers, "s/he never acts like that!" Sometimes they even apologize for their child. Which I find odd and assure them it's no problem. Once I was in a dental office waiting with my teenaged son for his appointment. A small boy was in a stroller with an impatient sitter watching him while they waited. She amused him with a toy she threw to him and he threw back. There was a lull where the packed waiting room was silent. The boy dropped his toy on the ground, turned to his right, pointed at me and said very loud and clear, "I WANT HIM!" [pointing directly at me]. I just smiled. The sitter looked weirded out. Everyone around seemed startled and a bit uncomfortable at his sudden outburst.

Animals I used to have difficulty with, now suddenly "get" what I'm wanting them to do. I have livestock and pets that I train. Sometimes when I'm zoning out in a line at a store, I'll be impatient or thinking something about a person next to me. Several times that person will whip around and stare at me like "what the F did you just say to me?"...and then they realize they heard nothing. They get this panicky sort of pale cold sweat look after that and then look nervous. I try not to think of anything anymore while I'm in lines. I will force myself to look at the floor or think of a song or stare at some object and focus there. So many times I've had people say "what did you just say?" when I've only been thinking about them that it's getting kind of annoying.

My dreaming evolved a few years back to where I was going nightly to infested houses with spirits who are trapped there. My task is to brave confronting them and drawing them out, or driving them off if they are demonic. It's hellish work I can tell you. Working with trapped children is easiest as you would suppose. Adults who were steeped with mental illness in life are very difficult cases. The success level is very low with them. For the last year or two I've not had these dreams. I get the feeling like I was given "time off". And I needed it for sure.

Having said all this, I'm sure folks like JGirl will roll their eyes and such. It doesn't matter. I have eyewitnesses to the paranormal and so many more accounts to share of real things that actually happened. I know this stuff is real. If you never experienced it, be thankful you have the luxury of scepticism. For those of us who don't, we have to roll up our sleeves and tackle what we know is out there.

Edited November 13, 2012 by SSilhouette

[JGirl]

I gave you links and quotes for the NDEs. I have answered your questions one by one. I have tied in the NDEs to the discussion of "proof that the afterlife exists" which is what you're trying to assert isn't true. That was my response to your asssertion. Remember? Sure you do.

What it seems like now is that you are trolling me and want me to give up discussing ghosts, their potential mental illness and the utility of understanding that when going to rid a place of infestation. You understand how it all fits together. Please stop trying to pretend that you don't.

i am not trolling you at all. i do not troll people. for some reason you decided i do n ot believe in ghosts or ndes etc. you are wrong in that assumption. i never challenged those things at all in this thread. this further shows that you haven't read or given consideration to what i posted.

Edited November 13, 2012 by JGirl

[Indiogene]

From a fair scientific standpoint of what makes ghosts possibly exist: When someone dies, their soul is released out of their physical body made up of bio-electro-magnetic energy to prove our souls (or "ourselves") are permanent bodies of plasmatic energy substance material inable to decompose after our biological organism bodies are no longer functioning like machines made to shut down, except "ourselves" are freed from them to roam for eternity.

I know the variety of religious opinions in regards to souls, ghosts and the afterlife may agree or not with me, but ghosts are reported in every culture through time and recollected in a high number of ghost sightings, should verify my theory of ghosts' composition with reported activity is authentic.

And I doubt any ghosts trapped in our reality not in a "better place" have a form of mental illness whenever alive, I thought heaven was open to all good souls regardless of mental illness. A ghost whom possess evil thought and lacked proper morale shows it can be an "evil spirit" instead of a ghost can be used as a "guardian" to protect the living and guide them morally. Mental illness should not hold back passed on spirits from entering toward the "light".

[freetoroam]

I can not say i do not believe in ghosts, I do believe that there are imprints of time.

My example is:

when you look up at the sky at night, it is possible to see a star which is actually no longer there, light and time are bringing it to you now, to you, it is there, but if you were somehow possitioned on that star at the precise moment you see it, would you actually be in the past or apart of its future?

Is the star an imprint of time carried to you through some phenomena of light? if so, why can that not happen here on Earth? We have time and light, the two things you need to see the dead star, so it is possible to see the dead here?

As for mentally ill ghosts? well, to some if you talk to god you are praying, but if you hear god to talk you, you should be locked up? who knows?

Edited November 13, 2012 by freetoroam

[coldethyl]

I gave you links and quotes for the NDEs. I have answered your questions one by one. I have tied in the NDEs to the discussion of "proof that the afterlife exists" which is what you're trying to assert isn't true. That was my response to your asssertion. Remember? Sure you do.

Actually, if YOU remember, I am the one that said NDE's are not proof of the afterlife. I gave you links as well and you did not respond. I also gave you links about suicides and what people are more likely to commit them and the wide spectrum that mental illness covers. You have addressed none of this.

No one is trolling, it's just the topic needs shock treatment.

[JGirl]

Actually, if YOU remember, I am the one that said NDE's are not proof of the afterlife. I gave you links as well and you did not respond. I also gave you links about suicides and what people are more likely to commit them and the wide spectrum that mental illness covers. You have addressed none of this.

No one is trolling, it's just the topic needs shock treatment.

thank you. not that it's sinking in but i appreciate it.

[SSilhouette]

I know the variety of religious opinions in regards to souls, ghosts and the afterlife may agree or not with me, but ghosts are reported in every culture through time and recollected in a high number of ghost sightings, should verify my theory of ghosts' composition with reported activity is authentic.

And I doubt any ghosts trapped in our reality not in a "better place" have a form of mental illness whenever alive, I thought heaven was open to all good souls regardless of mental illness. A ghost whom possess evil thought and lacked proper morale shows it can be an "evil spirit" instead of a ghost can be used as a "guardian" to protect the living and guide them morally. Mental illness should not hold back passed on spirits from entering toward the "light".

Tsa-La, this thread is not to imply that ALL ghost are mentally ill, nor that mentally ill people can't transcend and "move on" in the afterlife! Not by any means. It is about the seeming abundance of mentally-ill qualities to most hauntings you hear about, and about how to help those trapped spirits move on.

[Saru]

Folks let's keep the discussion civil please, throwing accusations of trolling around isn't going to help matters.

Topics such as this are always going to be rich in differing opinions so it's a good idea not to take opposing views too personally.

[SSilhouette]

The tone of the poster was rather falsely-accusatory: saying I hadn't answered any of her questions or tied NDE into this topic when I did in fact both of those things. But it's your call naturally.

Anyway, I just wanted to make sure Tsa-la and others didn't think this thread was saying all ghosts are mentally ill, or that mentally ill people can't find peace on the other side. It's about how many ghosts seem to be suffering from mental illness and how we can help them move on in the afterlife.

After reading hundreds of NDEs on various websites devoted to those reports, and from dozens of books on mediumship and hauntings and all things having to do with "the other side", I've found that one of truths of that realm is that when people in the physical "pray" or reach out to or send loving energy to spirits trapped, it's more effective than those on the other side trying to reach them. I think the reason for this is simple. Since their fixation is obviously to the physical, something about "moving on" terrifies them. So they would tend to pay attention more to the physical world than the energetic one trying to coax them back over. If they encounter an individual or group of people sympathetic to their plight and who told them plainly that they are dead and need to move on, to not fear it, they would put more stock in that.

This world is weird. I find it exciting that we are only on the verge of discovering all that is possible. We need sceptics here. The more you understand life and what it's purpose is, the more you know we need strong sceptics who insist the physical world is all their is. Their role is essential.

Edited November 15, 2012 by SSilhouette

[JGirl]

i think this is a case of misunderstanding, all the way around.

i would like to clarify my position in this topic in an attempt to bring about more understanding on both sides as well as eliminating animosity between members.

i am not interested in battling - i'm interested in discussion

ok

first of all, i do believe in ghosts (spirits if you will) i do believe that people have had contact with them in many different situations.

i do believe that they can be communicated with.

i do believe that people have had NDEs and i feel they are valid experiences. i do not know 'where' they go but i do respect the experience. (actually i have more than a dozen books on this subject in my personal library. i am fascinated by it actually.)

what we do know scientifically is that they are not clinically dead. not by the standard of 'not coming back' dead. (to my knowlege there are no actual medical records of anyone coming back from the dead.)

that is why they are referred to as near death experiences. they may have touched the edge, peered over if you will, but they themselves did not die.

that is what i was trying to convey earlier that you saw as an attack on your position

the reason i had issue with you bringing that into the discussion is that whether or not we can agree that nde actually happen (and as it happens we do agree on that count), it has nothing to do with the emotional condition of those who have passed over and are 'stuck' as you say.

i asked you to clarify how they tied together and you cited first person accounts of people who had the experiences, this doesn't tell me how you tied that in with your original topic, which is what i was trying to find out.

my original objection in this thread was your use of the term "mentally ill" . not only is it a very sensitive thing for those who are in fact living with this disorder, but it is an inaccurate term for what you were proposing. this disorder requires a physical body and therefore it is an impossibility for a spirit. you chose to ignore the members who informed you of these things and that further exacerbated the situation.

had you rephrased it instead of steadfastly and blindly hanging onto it this may have gone a totally different direction.

as it is, here we are.

i hope that this cleared up some of the confusion on my end.

Edited November 15, 2012 by JGirl