Pakistani girl accused of blasphemy

[pallidin]

And what the hell does native american indians have to do with this discussion anyway?

I hate to be "history" teacher to you, but, native americans are NOT exclusively on "reservations" !!!!!!!!!!

They are free, live everywhere in the US, and actively participate in politics.

[wittyusernamefailed]

Afghanistan was the base of a group that attacked the US. they were sorta asking for it. Now Iraq, I will completely agree that we should NOT have invaded. In fact we should withdraw to the 6th naval command in Bahrain to safe guard the shipping through that area, and leave the rest alone. We have oil and resources enough without putting our hands in the hornets nest that is the mideast. We need to stick with the Monroe doctrine.

As for the rest of the discussion. I think your knowledge of the U.S may not be as complete as you may think it to be. I will simply leave it at that.

Edited August 20, 2012 by wittyusernamefailed

[pallidin]

hahahahaha you didn't ?

the whole war on iraq was for oil !

but unfortunatly they didn't move them out with buckets and knocked on your door as they passed by

... you been listening to official usa statements for far too long

Ok, now you're being just silly.

Why don't you ask the Iraqi government if the US took one drop of their oil?

But I suppose you wouldn't trust them either.

[Knight Of Shadows]

sorry to go off-topic

we can take this discussion to a more suitable topic .. or not

guess it's not the place for it

anyway for the main topic again .. it's not islam fault if some stupid dictator who happen to be muslim

decided to do something that never happened in times of islam .. and trying to put an islamic law punishment on a kid

this is totally new to islam .. even muslims could be surprised

[pallidin]

I agree with all that you just said, Knight

[SteveBronfman]

"decided to do something that never happened in times of islam .. and trying to put an islamic law punishment on a kid

this is totally new to islam .. even muslims could be surprised "

After every stoning of adulterers, suicide bombing and beheading etc I hear a Muslim say a variant if this. Pakistan already drove out millions of Hindus, this sort of persecution is in fact as old as Islam.

[Coffey]

They have no desire to be educated. They want to DO the educating. And your ideas about what Christians would want make it crystal clear you not only aren't one, you aren't even familiar with one. You're so full of PC bullshirt your eyes must be brown. Pathetic, actually.

PC.... HAHAHAHAHAHA I'm one of those people who moans about how "PC" everything is today. So far from it.

Thanks for you most intelligent of replies thogh, the insults just prove how immature you are.

What I find pathetic is your Extreme Zoinist attitude and agenda on here. In fact I find it more than pathetic, I find it utterly disturbing.

You won't be happy until all Muslims are exterminated will you?

"decided to do something that never happened in times of islam .. and trying to put an islamic law punishment on a kid

this is totally new to islam .. even muslims could be surprised "

After every stoning of adulterers, suicide bombing and beheading etc I hear a Muslim say a variant if this. Pakistan already drove out millions of Hindus, this sort of persecution is in fact as old as Islam.

Those are only actions of extremists. Extreme Christians used to stone people as well.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Coffey

[SteveBronfman]

"Those are only actions of extremists. Extreme Christians used to stone people as well"

Coffey is wrong for 3 reasons.

1. Only being done by extremists doesn't excuse it especially since it's widespread in Islamic countries. Two wrongs don't make a right.

2. You're factually incorrect. Christians never ever practiced stoning. It was practiced in Judaism several THOUSAND years ago.

3. Muslims practice it TODAY.

You're an apologist for human rights abuse.

[SteveBronfman]

Also WTF is an extreme zionist attitude?

What does Israel have to do with Pakistani Muslim human rights abuses against Christians?

Sounds like you're implying there's some sort of conspiracy to make Muslims look bad. Muslims often do a good enough job at looking bad no propaganda is needed I assure you. Most of the biggest abuses of human rights are Muslim countries for instance. Almost all global wars today involve Muslims. Muslims are responsible for at least 70% of all terrorism worldwide. Almost all suicide bombers are Muslim (with the Tamil tigers a very distant second).

Edited August 20, 2012 by SteveBronfman

[Coffey]

Also WTF is an extreme zionist attitude?

What does Israel have to do with Pakistani Muslim human rights abuses against Christians?

Sounds like you're implying there's some sort of conspiracy to make Muslims look bad. Muslims often do a good enough job at looking bad no propaganda is needed I assure you. Most of the biggest abuses of human rights are Muslim countries for instance. Almost all global wars today involve Muslims. Muslims are responsible for at least 70% of all terrorism worldwide. Almost all suicide bombers are Muslim (with the Tamil tigers a very distant second).

You and "and then" like to twist what people say a lot to make thme look bad etc, it's hilerious.

Nah I never said anything like that towards the article. It was compeltely aimed at his attitude on here and how he is anti-Mulsim/Anti-Islam. Just like you, which is why you jumped to his defence.

The statistics you post about terrorism are BS. The US and UK are terrorists jsut now invading those countries but they aren't included in these statistics. Along with the fact we started the wars on Islam and Muslims. Mostly with Israel to blame... Israel is like that annoying kid at school that gets all the bigger kids to fight each other but has the nerve to put a few kicks and punches in when it can.

"Those are only actions of extremists. Extreme Christians used to stone people as well"

Coffey is wrong for 3 reasons.

1. Only being done by extremists doesn't excuse it especially since it's widespread in Islamic countries. Two wrongs don't make a right.

2. You're factually incorrect. Christians never ever practiced stoning. It was practiced in Judaism several THOUSAND years ago.

3. Muslims practice it TODAY.

You're an apologist for human rights abuse.

I was waiting for your reply. Fair enough it's the old testement that said it.

They live in 3rd world countries so they aren't as "westernised". Hence education is key.

I know muslims who would never do anything like that, which proves it's not the religion. There is a lot of modern Muslims in the UK and they don't harm anyone, so how do you explian that then?!

What an absurd comment. I'm merely making a point that religion is not to blame for this. I don't even know how you could take what I said in the way you did.

[SteveBronfman]

"I know muslims who would never do anything like that, which proves it's not the religion. There is a lot of modern Muslims in the UK and they don't harm anyone, so how do you explian that then?!"

You're confusing adherents of Islam with the religion itself. Just because some adherents don't practice their religion does not discount that those in Iran, Pakistan and elsewhere that do stone people do so legally within the framework of sharia law. Therefore I can blame islam for this.

There are branches of Islam, such as the Alevis, that are progressive but the problem is that the orthodox schools of Islam consider them heretical.

Edited August 20, 2012 by SteveBronfman

[Guest]

"I know muslims who would never do anything like that, which proves it's not the religion. There is a lot of modern Muslims in the UK and they don't harm anyone, so how do you explian that then?!"

You're confusing adherents of Islam with the religion itself. Just because some adherents don't practice their religion does not discount that those in Iran, Pakistan and elsewhere that do stone people do so legally within the framework of sharia law. Therefore I can blame islam for this.

There are branches of Islam, such as the Alevis, that are progressive but the problem is that the orthodox schools of Islam consider them heretical.

Let us not forget that Christaians killed heretics in the name of God - and Christians are still killing witches in certain parts of Africa.

Its RELIGION stupid - not any particular flavour which we personally choose to dislike

Br Cornelius

[meryt-tetisheri]

On a societal level, it is culture which will determine whether a stringent or lenient interpretation of any religion will be followed, and the extent to which it will be used as a source of the legal code. Every religion picks up the local 'color': the Islam of Afghanistan is not the same as the Turkish one for example. The same applies to Christianity.

The problem with using a generalized 'condemn religion' explanation is that it ignores or glosses over other decisive factors and will not help stop any harmful or inhumane practice, wouldn't witches be also killed by animists in Africa for practicing 'bad juju'? .

I feel troubled that in all this discussion a helpless disabled child who might face a death penalty seems to be relegated to the back burner. She has a life, a face and a name. Did you know that 'rimsha' means eyelash? I think it's a name that carries such fragility, in a way fittingly chosen for a very fragile child.

[Guest]

On a societal level, it is culture which will determine whether a stringent or lenient interpretation of any religion will be followed, and the extent to which it will be used as a source of the legal code. Every religion picks up the local 'color': the Islam of Afghanistan is not the same as the Turkish one for example. The same applies to Christianity.

The problem with using a generalized 'condemn religion' explanation is that it ignores or glosses over other decisive factors and will not help stop any harmful or inhumane practice, wouldn't witches be also killed by animists in Africa for practicing 'bad juju'? .

I feel troubled that in all this discussion a helpless disabled child who might face a death penalty seems to be relegated to the back burner. She has a life, a face and a name. Did you know that 'rimsha' means eyelash? I think it's a name that carries such fragility, in a way fittingly chosen for a very fragile child.

Your argument supports the position that Religion is the problem. If an anamist can be as inhumane as a Pakistani mulla what is the common denominator - an intransigent and superstitious interpretation of the world.

I can have no practical influence on the outcome of this small tragedy - all I can do is make an observation about what has caused it.

Br Cornelius

Edited August 20, 2012 by Guest

[supervike]

They DO NOT need to be "wiped out" or "policed" or "invaded"... They need to be educated.

I believe western society has been trying to 'educate' them for quite some time. For the most part, they do not want it.

The complete reluctance to accept any sort of human rights some of these societies have towards their women and children makes me shudder.

Maybe it's time to just wash our hands of it, and let them be.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Your argument supports the position that Religion is the problem. If an anamist can be as inhumane as a Pakistani mulla what is the common denominator - an intransigent and superstitious interpretation of the world.

I can have no practical influence on the outcome of this small tragedy - all I can do is make an observation about what has caused it.

Br Cornelius

Or human nature and its instinct/tendency towards violence? Since cruelty, mass murder, genocide etc. were, and still are, also being committed outside the context of religion, and by people who do not hold a belief in religion, then other factors should be looked at also. Religion on its own does not offer a satisfactory answer.

Neither you, nor I, or any other person on this forum can exert any practical influence on the fate of Rimsha, but we can acknowledge the barbarity of the case and condemn it. It's the least we can do, make sure that her fate doesn't pass in silence. Just add a voice.

Font too small!

Edited August 20, 2012 by meryt-tetisheri

[Coffey]

"I know muslims who would never do anything like that, which proves it's not the religion. There is a lot of modern Muslims in the UK and they don't harm anyone, so how do you explian that then?!"

You're confusing adherents of Islam with the religion itself. Just because some adherents don't practice their religion does not discount that those in Iran, Pakistan and elsewhere that do stone people do so legally within the framework of sharia law. Therefore I can blame islam for this.

There are branches of Islam, such as the Alevis, that are progressive but the problem is that the orthodox schools of Islam consider them heretical.

No I'm talking about the religion as a whole. Which is Islam.

You are trying to say only true Muslims come from those areas or live that way which is utter BS.

If that where the case then why do Jewish or christian people not stone woman to death anymore? Seeing as it said so in their religions originally.....

it's because they live in modern and westernised areas. Just like Muslims who are modern or westernised.

[Ashotep]

Through out times most religions practiced some sort of violence as some still do today. Most religions matured and stopped these practices. However in some parts of the world they are still killing people in name of religion and hopefully these people will also mature and see this as not acceptable.

The problem with some countries is the meanest people are the ones with all the power and they don't mind killing anyone that gets in their way. Someone more moderate that doesn't like sharia law or whatever religious law that country has, don't stand a chance.

I don't hate muslims, everyone should have the freedom to practice what religion they want. I do hate it when the more radical muslims stone someone to death because they cheated, was living together or cut their heads off for some trivial thing.

This little girl should of never been arrested to begin with and I don't think some muslims thought so either but the more aggressive ones were going to burn houses down if they didn't. I'm hoping cooler heads will prevail and this child will be let go and help her relocate if the people in her neighborhood won't leave her alone.

[SteveBronfman]

"why do Jewish or christian people not stone woman to death anymore? Seeing as it said so in their religions originally..... "

Because both religions have evolved and progressed and been through reformations,unlike Islam (orthodox schools) which has no mechanism to evolve because all Muslim schools believe the Koran is the exact unaltered word of God. You're basing your argument on your own logic rather than the facts. The most religious Christians tend to be the most peaceful eg Armish etc whereas the most religious Muslims tend to be the most violent.

http://www.internationalwallofprayer.org/A-052-Why-Islamic-Terrorists-Do-What-They-Do-Dr-Mark-Gabriel.html

[Guest]

"why do Jewish or christian people not stone woman to death anymore? Seeing as it said so in their religions originally..... "

Because both religions have evolved and progressed and been through reformations,unlike Islam (orthodox schools) which has no mechanism to evolve because all Muslim schools believe the Koran is the exact unaltered word of God. You're basing your argument on your own logic rather than the facts. The most religious Christians tend to be the most peaceful eg Armish etc whereas the most religious Muslims tend to be the most violent.

http://www.internati...rk-Gabriel.html

To many unsubstantiated sweeping statements to take seriously.

Br Cornelius

[SteveBronfman]

Prove me wrong then

[Coffey]

Prove me wrong then

Religion is made by humans... So it takes humans to change it. Religion itself cannot change obviously..... lol

"why do Jewish or christian people not stone woman to death anymore? Seeing as it said so in their religions originally..... "

Because both religions have evolved and progressed and been through reformations,unlike Islam (orthodox schools) which has no mechanism to evolve because all Muslim schools believe the Koran is the exact unaltered word of God. You're basing your argument on your own logic rather than the facts. The most religious Christians tend to be the most peaceful eg Armish etc whereas the most religious Muslims tend to be the most violent.

http://www.internati...rk-Gabriel.html

No the religion hasn't matured. The people who beleive the religion have become more modernised. Huge difference. How can a religion mature? lol

[Guest]

Prove me wrong then

Prove what - that one religion is less superstitious and barbaric than another. That would be impossible as they all have copious blood on their hands.

Br Cornelius

[Professor Buzzkill]

No the religion hasn't matured. The people who beleive the religion have become more modernised. Huge difference. How can a religion mature? lol

Like the Amish?

[+and-then]

Prove what - that one religion is less superstitious and barbaric than another. That would be impossible as they all have copious blood on their hands.

Br Cornelius

Quite true. As do all other groups of humans. It's what we do. Religions get singled out because they are SUPPOSED to be better. They aren't any bloodier, just more hypocritical. Ever since the Law was given people have found others to blame and make scapegoat for why they break it. Nothing new. Belief in God also has brought what light and civility there is in the mind of humanity to the fore as nothing else has. So while "religion" has been vastly negative it has also done a great good as well...whether you believe so or not. If we had centuries yet for Islam to mature then it wouldn't be so bad. But with the weapons we currently possess I don't think we have that much time to change the overwhelming hatred this religion espouses.