Ark of the Covenant

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

32 minutes ago, kborissov said:

thanks for explaining that ... and your point is?

My point is that if it’s a myth.... it might not be real. 

[Piney]

36 minutes ago, kborissov said:

thanks for explaining that ... and your point is?

Moses is considered a myth by many Rabbinical scholars, Israeli Archaeologists and Jewish historians. So the Arc would be in the same vein, a myth. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Furthermore, Exodus goes into excruciating detail on what things like the Tabernacle should look like:

chapter 26:1. Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work shalt thou make them. 2. The length of one curtain shall be eight and twenty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and every one of the curtains shall have one measure. 3. The five curtains shall be coupled together one to another; and other five curtains shall be coupled one to another. 4. And thou shalt make loops of blue upon the edge of the one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling; and likewise shalt thou make in the uttermost edge of another curtain, in the coupling of the second. 5. Fifty loops shalt thou make in the one curtain, and fifty loops shalt thou make in the edge of the curtain that is in the coupling of the second; that the loops may take hold one of another. 6. And thou shalt make fifty taches of gold, and couple the curtains together with the taches: and it shall be one tabernacle.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Ohh and chapter 37:

1. And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it: 2. And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about. 3. And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it. 4. And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold. 5. And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark. 6. And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof. 7. And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; 8. One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 9. And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims. 10. And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof: 11. And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about. 12. Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about. 13. And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof. 14. Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table. 15. And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.

 

 

sounds like a very precise description to me.

[Harte]

You gotta be shittim me.

Harte

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

11 minutes ago, Harte said:

You gotta be shittim me.

Harte

Honestly, the writer of Exodus HAD to be an owner of a Shittim Wood Plantation given the number of times it’s mentioned as being vital to the construction of the Holy of Holies.

[Orphalesion]

19 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ohh and chapter 37:

1. And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it: 2. And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about. 3. And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it. 4. And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold. 5. And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark. 6. And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof. 7. And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; 8. One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 9. And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims. 10. And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof: 11. And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about. 12. Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about. 13. And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof. 14. Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table. 15. And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.

 

 

sounds like a very precise description to me.

I was just going to ask whether my memory serves me right about there actually being a pretty detailed description of box in Exodus

[Harte]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Honestly, the writer of Exodus HAD to be an owner of a Shittim Wood Plantation given the number of times it’s mentioned as being vital to the construction of the Holy of Holies.

Unbelievable, considering shittim is some of the shittimiest wood you can get.

Harte

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

4 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I was just going to ask whether my memory serves me right about there actually being a pretty detailed description of box in Exodus

Good lord, nearly EVERYTHING is described in excruciating detail. Except what’s going down in Egypt.

[Orphalesion]

Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Good lord, nearly EVERYTHING is described in excruciating detail. Except what’s going down in Egypt.

Exactly, everything except the stuff that could be verified by other civilizations, such as who "Pharaoh" is

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, Harte said:

Unbelievable, considering shittim is some of the shittimiest wood you can get.

Harte

As a forester, I agree with this shittim.

[Harte]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Good lord, nearly EVERYTHING is described in excruciating detail. Except what’s going down in Egypt.

Harte

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Harte said:

Harte

 

Just watched this.

A lot of firepower to use on one bloody rabbit!

[jaylemurph]

13 minutes ago, Piney said:

A lot of firepower to use on one bloody rabbit!

Well, the Bassets want us to be thorough in our holy smitings of bunnies.

--Jaylemurph

[BorizBadinov]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

 

Just watched this.

A lot of firepower to use on one bloody rabbit!

But it was an extremely bloody rabbit. With big teeth...

59 minutes ago, Piney said:

Moses is considered a myth by many Rabbinical scholars, Israeli Archaeologists and Jewish historians. So the Arc would be in the same vein, a myth. 

For myself too many details in the archaeological record seem to disprove the story as written, but so many of the stories in the bible seem to be adapted and enhanced from older stories.

What I have often wondered is if the ark would have been created/recreated at some point by the church or concerned parties as a faux holy relic to woo the masses. Something like the Turin shroud or the James ossuary, spear of destiny etc. 

Until recently no one could disprove such items, and the James Ossuary even passed the carbon dating since the box was of the correct age.  

[Piney]

1 minute ago, BorizBadinov said:

Something like the Turin shroud

There is no doubt that was a Northern European Knight. Except with Catholics.

[BorizBadinov]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

There is no doubt that was a Northern European Knight. Except with Catholics.

I have come to believe it was some sort of sacrifice/celebration like the ones they do down in Mexico where volunteers are crucified to recreate the event, but apparently with a little more dedication to the cause and hopefully voluntary. The wounds are too specific for it to be a random corpse, and the fact it was saved at all tells me someone knew something.  

I'm still fascinated by what caused it to be, more than what it is. I had heard someone finally was able to recreate a few years back it but I wasn't all that impressed with the result personally. I think it must have been a spontaneous combustion like scenario where excessive heat caused a sublimation like reaction with the fibers.  

[Piney]

7 minutes ago, BorizBadinov said:

I have come to believe it was some sort of sacrifice/celebration like the ones they do down in Mexico where volunteers are crucified to recreate the event, but apparently with a little more dedication to the cause and hopefully voluntary. The wounds are too specific for it to be a random corpse, and the fact it was saved at all tells me someone knew something.  

I proscribe to this theory but I also thought it might of been some form of execution by Turkish Muslims mocking a member of a religious order. But he has riding muscles and the build of a swordsman and he definitely has Northern European features. He just looks a bit undernourished.

[BorizBadinov]

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

I proscribe to this theory but I also thought it might of been some form of execution by Turkish Muslims mocking a member of a religious order. But he has riding muscles and the build of a swordsman and he definitely has Northern European features. He just looks a bit undernourished.

Given the time period that's entirely plausible. He had some serious shoulders for a rabbi

 

[Orphalesion]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

There is no doubt that was a Northern European Knight. Except with Catholics.

Wait I thought it was an Italian from the Renaissance...

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Wait I thought it was an Italian from the Renaissance...

The “Leonardo Thoery”?

[Orphalesion]

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The “Leonardo Thoery”?

Maybe? That's the one where it says that something about Jesus' contemporary appearance is actually modeled after a man who was Leonardo Da Vinci's lover right?
I mean I think it's definitely the case that the long hair, European features and pale skin/blue eyes came from the male ideal of beauty during the Italian Renaissance.

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

sounds like a very precise description to me.

He /said/ he'd never read that part already!

3 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Maybe? That's the one where it says that something about Jesus' contemporary appearance is actually modeled after a man who was Leonardo Da Vinci's lover right?
I mean I think it's definitely the case that the long hair, European features and pale skin/blue eyes came from the male ideal of beauty during the Italian Renaissance.

Leonardo went after, umm, younger dudes, esp. the red-haired twink Salai ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Leonardo_da_Vinci_-_Angelo_Incarnato.jpg ). Salai also painted a nude version of the Mona Lisa, the Monna Vanna.

--Jaylemurph

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

16 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Maybe? That's the one where it says that something about Jesus' contemporary appearance is actually modeled after a man who was Leonardo Da Vinci's lover right?
I mean I think it's definitely the case that the long hair, European features and pale skin/blue eyes came from the male ideal of beauty during the Italian Renaissance.

Actually, the theory is that Leonardo faked the Turin Shroud for his own amusement and Jesus is actually him.

[Orphalesion]

4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Actually, the theory is that Leonardo faked the Turin Shroud for his own amusement and Jesus is actually him.

Ah I see. I don't know honestly, I just always assumed it was some random guy from Renaissance Italy, people from the North of Italy right down to Rome can look "Northern" just like many Austrians look fairly "Italian".

Edited March 20, 2018 by Orphalesion