Ark of the Covenant

[Piney]

6 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

twink

 

One of my stepfathers used that term when breaking his lover's chops about something. I just realized the context. 

[docyabut2]

 The books-One built  by Bezalel all in gold written in Exodus and Moses building  in Deuteronomy only in wood.

One would think a large golden ark would have been found by now, of which Exodus was just written glorifying a ark that  just did`nt exist at all.  

I believe it was a old drum found.

 

Biblical Ark of the Covenant in Zimbabwe

Edited March 20, 2018 by docyabut2

[Sir Smoke aLot]

On 2/25/2018 at 1:45 PM, Piney said:

This one is about historical facts.

But it is also the historical fact.

Skip to 5:30 in video :

If it's good enough for the UN it must be good enough for the rest of the world. Sorry my friend these are 'facts' of modern times

[Windowpane]

30 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

But it is also the historical fact.

Skip to 5:30 in video 

...

It's an historical fact that Mr. Dannon made a speech mentioning, amongst other things, the "Holy Book containing 3,000 years of history of the Jewish people."

However, although the Old Testament does contain some historical material,it's not history as such.  There's a great deal of what might be perceived as history, but is actually tradition, legend and myth ...

[Sir Smoke aLot]

5 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

It's an historical fact that Mr. Dannon made a speech mentioning, amongst other things, the "Holy Book containing 3,000 years of history of the Jewish people."

However, although the Old Testament does contain some historical material,it's not history as such.  There's a great deal of what might be perceived as history, but is actually tradition, legend and myth ...

If it's enough to justify reality in one aspect it must be generally accepted as true for any other aspect too, especially if it's grounded in divinity. Reality has nothing to do with it yet it was deciding factor on which fate of generations was predetermined.

Can't have it both ways.

I would not go into linguistics to discuss that particular sentence which Dannon said because my post was a joke but joke which points out how generally most people's objectivity is determined by situation not by facts.

[Riaan]

The Ark of the Covenant is most likely mentioned in the El Arish Shrine Text:

"and had made for it a box of real hard stone (or metal), it was hidden in [this?] place, namely, the Per Aart near the sacred Aart of the majesty of Ra: then was healed this heat in the limbs of the majesty of Seb." Seb as a god was the son of Amehotep III, and was also the biblical Moses. 

[Windowpane]

2 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

...

I would not go into linguistics to discuss that particular sentence which Dannon said because my post was a joke 

...

Sorry, Sir Smoke a Lot!  I missed that aspect ...

[docyabut2]

One ark built by Bezalel was all gold written in Exodus, and Moses built one in Deuteronomy only all in wood.

To add only the measurements of the ark were only written in Exodus. Most believe Deuteronomy was written by Moses, there was no measurements.

 

 

 

 

 

[atalante]

5 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

One ark built by Bezalel was all gold written in Exodus, and Moses built one in Deuteronomy only all in wood.

To add only the measurements of the ark were only written in Exodus. Most believe Deuteronomy was written by Moses, there was no measurements.

The following article discusses "why" the significance of the Arc of the Covenant was reinterpreted in the Deuteronomic reform (which took place in the time of king Josiah). 

https://www.scribd.com/document/373563199/Fretheim-Terence-The-Ark-in-Deuteronomy 

The article proposes that (before Josiah) the Arc of the Covenant had been carried around by Levites in some religious ceremonies, such as the Feast of Tabernacles.  Also the earlier role of the Arc had over-emphasized a connection to the Davidic monarchy of Judah (as contrasted to religion in the kingdom of the northern 10 tribes of Israel). 

[jmccr8]

On 20/03/2018 at 4:42 AM, docyabut2 said:

 The books-One built  by Bezalel all in gold written in Exodus and Moses building  in Deuteronomy only in wood.

One would think a large golden ark would have been found by now, of which Exodus was just written glorifying a ark that  just did`nt exist at all.  

I believe it was a old drum found.

 

Biblical Ark of the Covenant in Zimbabwe

Hi Docyabut

It really doesn't look like a drum an yes if does generate power, I have been using it as a microwave to warm up meals for years. You don't think that's inappropriate do you, it not like anyone else was using it an you can even take it camping cuz you don't need to plug it in anywhere.

jmccr8

 

[docyabut2]

4 hours ago, atalante said:

The following article discusses "why" the significance of the Arc of the Covenant was reinterpreted in the Deuteronomic reform (which took place in the time of king Josiah). 

https://www.scribd.com/document/373563199/Fretheim-Terence-The-Ark-in-Deuteronomy 

The article proposes that (before Josiah) the Arc of the Covenant had been carried around by Levites in some religious ceremonies, such as the Feast of Tabernacles.  Also the earlier role of the Arc had over-emphasized a connection to the Davidic monarchy of Judah (as contrasted to religion in the kingdom of the northern 10 tribes of Israel). 

 Moses must have wrote the Deuteronomy, he writes I made the ark, the ark only out of wood, and no measurements. The ark Moses made could be the drum and made out of a tree stump

Only Exodus claiming  Bezalel `s measurements.

Exodus 37:1
Now Bezalel made the ark of acacia wood; its length was two and a half cubits, and its width one and a half cubits, and its height one and a half cubits;

 

http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/10-3.htm

 

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by docyabut2

[docyabut2]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Docyabut

It really doesn't look like a drum an yes if does generate power, I have been using it as a microwave to warm up meals for years. You don't think that's inappropriate do you, it not like anyone else was using it an you can even take it camping cuz you don't need to plug it in anywhere.

jmccr8

 

The ark Moses made could be the drum and made out of a tree stump

[docyabut2]

Quote

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" (heb: לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה) is an abbreviated form of one of the Ten Commandments which, according to the Book of Deuteronomy,

So Moses never says to build idols like Bezalel, his ark had two Cherubs.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" (heb: לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה) is an abbreviated form of one of the Ten Commandments which, according to the Book of Deuteronomy,

 

Even Exodus

So why did Bezalel, had  his ark had two Cherubs

 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: ⁵

 

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by docyabut2

[jmccr8]

4 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

So Moses never says to build idols like Bezalel, his ark had two Cherubs.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" (heb: לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה) is an abbreviated form of one of the Ten Commandments which, according to the Book of Deuteronomy,

 

Even Exodus

So why did Bezalel, had  his ark had two Cherubs

 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: ⁵

 

 

I'll go for Cherubs for a thousand Alex, because they don't exist.

jmccr8

[Harte]

Okay..

Beside being known in Judaism, Christianity and Mormonism, this Cherub is also known in Arabaic texts as Israfel.

Alexe

[kborissov]

On 3/19/2018 at 8:19 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ohh and chapter 37:

1. And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it: 2. And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about. 3. And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it. 4. And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold. 5. And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark. 6. And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof. 7. And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; 8. One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 9. And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims. 10. And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof: 11. And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about. 12. Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about. 13. And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof. 14. Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table. 15. And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.

 

 

sounds like a very precise description to me.

All depends who this description is for. Read this, if the ark would be described in that level of construction details (though, not the best example either), with no details of waterproofing I would agree that part may have not been in the process. 

https://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/fnr/faculty/eckelman/documents/sfchap01.pdf 

[Windowpane]

22 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

So Moses never says to build idols like Bezalel, his ark had two Cherubs.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" (heb: לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה) is an abbreviated form of one of the Ten Commandments which, according to the Book of Deuteronomy,

 

Even Exodus

So why did Bezalel, had  his ark had two Cherubs

 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: ⁵

 

 

The cherubim weren't idols: they were Yahweh's throne platform (Friedman 1987: 43).  It's possible that the Tabernacle was set up under the Cherubs' wings (183).

The J version of the commandments given to Moses forbids molten statues.  But Solomon's cherubs were made of olive wood, and gold plated (75).

(Incidentally, what is the durability of olive wood?  And how would it compare with acacia?)

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

43 minutes ago, kborissov said:

All depends who this description is for. Read this, if the ark would be described in that level of construction details (though, not the best example either), with no details of waterproofing I would agree that part may have not been in the process. 

https://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/fnr/faculty/eckelman/documents/sfchap01.pdf 

When one is building in the desert, waterproofing isn’t the highest of priorities.

[kborissov]

49 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

When one is building in the desert, waterproofing isn’t the highest of priorities.

No, I disagree. Depends on what they built it for... And speaking mainstream Egyptology language, if pharaoh said it needs to be done, it had to be done.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

5 hours ago, kborissov said:

No, I disagree. Depends on what they built it for... And speaking mainstream Egyptology language, if pharaoh said it needs to be done, it had to be done.

So the best thing you can take away from a rebuttal to “they weren’t that descriptive” is “where’s the Waterproofing?”

[Kenemet]

On 3/20/2018 at 8:45 AM, Windowpane said:

It's an historical fact that Mr. Dannon made a speech mentioning, amongst other things, the "Holy Book containing 3,000 years of history of the Jewish people."

However, although the Old Testament does contain some historical material,it's not history as such.  There's a great deal of what might be perceived as history, but is actually tradition, legend and myth ...

Exactly.  It's what they believe is their history.

[docyabut2]

[docyabut2]

Why would Moses want to make a ark looking like Egyptian.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/03files/Egyptian_Arks.html

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

17 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Why would Moses want to make a ark looking like Egyptian.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/03files/Egyptian_Arks.html

Well,there’s that old theory that Moses (Thothmoses) was an Egyptian prince (or priest) who was a survivor of the Aten cult. 

[Minimalists]

Since Indiana Jones found the thing maybe we should ask him.....LoL...Sorry I could not help throwing that in there.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Alien Origins