Shortages could force world to vegetarianism

[Guest]

It's bit different:

Vegetarianism (ie. not veganism) encompasses the practice of following plant-based diets (fruits, vegetables, etc.), with or without the inclusion of dairy products or eggs, and with the exclusion of meat (red meat, poultry, and seafood). Abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin, may also be practiced.

Semi-vegetarian diets consist largely of vegetarian foods, but may include fish or poultry, or sometimes other meats on an infrequent basis. Those with diets containing fish or poultry may define "meat" only as mammalian flesh and may identify with vegetarianism.

* Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products.

* Lacto vegetarianism includes dairy products but not eggs.

* Ovo-lacto vegetarianism (or lacto-ovo vegetarianism) includes animal/dairy products such as eggs, milk, and honey.

* Sentient vegetarianism (also known as yogic or sattvic diet), a plant based diet which may also include dairy (not eggs) and honey, but excludes anything from the onion or leek family, red lentils, durian fruit, mushrooms, blue cheeses, fermented foods or sauces, alcoholic drinks and often also excludes coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, nutmeg or any other type of stimulant such as excess sharp spices.

* Buddhist vegetarianism (also known as su vegetarianism) excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.

* Jain vegetarianism includes dairy but excludes eggs and honey, as well as root vegetables.

* Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Vegetarianism

This is also interesting:

The body can preserve stores of B12 for up to 30 years, and reuses the vitamin without destroying the substance. Clinical evidence has shown a deficiency of B12 in vegans and, to lesser degree, vegetarians.

So, when you start a vegan diet at around 30, then after 20 or 30 years you will get into problems because of a B!2 deficiency.

There are vegetarian sources of B12.

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/Top-5-Natural-Vegetarian-sources-Vitamin-B12.php

Br Cornelius

[keithisco]

It's bit different:

Vegetarianism (ie. not veganism) encompasses the practice of following plant-based diets (fruits, vegetables, etc.), with or without the inclusion of dairy products or eggs, and with the exclusion of meat (red meat, poultry, and seafood). Abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin, may also be practiced.

* Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products.

* Lacto vegetarianism includes dairy products but not eggs.

* Ovo-lacto vegetarianism (or lacto-ovo vegetarianism) includes animal/dairy products such as eggs, milk, and honey.

* Sentient vegetarianism (also known as yogic or sattvic diet), a plant based diet which may also include dairy (not eggs) and honey, but excludes anything from the onion or leek family, red lentils, durian fruit, mushrooms, blue cheeses, fermented foods or sauces, alcoholic drinks and often also excludes coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, nutmeg or any other type of stimulant such as excess sharp spices.

* Buddhist vegetarianism (also known as su vegetarianism) excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.

* Jain vegetarianism includes dairy but excludes eggs and honey, as well as root vegetables.

* Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Vegetarianism

.

Whoaaa... are you telling me that some Veggies will not eat anything from the Allium family (onions , garlic), or dairy products made from milk, or Honey none of which involves Loss of Life tom an animal??? That is just bizarre and very definitely in the camp of "Religious Tradition" rather than reality.

[rashore]

Honey can be a quirky one. It is an animal product. It is stealing food from the bees. Sometimes bees can die.

[questionmark]

Honey can be a quirky one. It is an animal product. It is stealing food from the bees. Sometimes bees can die.

I doubt there are many beekeeper who are stupid enough to leave less than the hive needs to survive.

[Abramelin]

There are vegetarian sources of B12.

http://www.healthali...Vitamin-B12.php

Br Cornelius

Accept for the yeast, all the sources on that site are of animal origin: eggs and milk products. So, a vegetarian (belonging to one or two of the catagories I mentioned in my former post) won't have a lot of problems, but vegans will.

Plants are not sources of vitamin B12.

http://en.wikipedia....ism#Vitamin_B12

.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Whoaaa... are you telling me that some Veggies will not eat anything from the Allium family (onions , garlic), or dairy products made from milk, or Honey none of which involves Loss of Life tom an animal??? That is just bizarre and very definitely in the camp of "Religious Tradition" rather than reality.

Personally I think this is worse: "* Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.".

If they sit on a bike and light their never ending farts, they can propel themselves cross country, lol.

When they also use onions, garlic and cabbage in their diet, they will reach dangerous speeds !!

Edited August 28, 2012 by Abramelin

[Guest]

Accept for the yeast, all the sources on that site are of animal origin: eggs and milk products. So, a vegetarian (belonging to one or two of the catagories I mentioned in my former post) won't have a lot of problems, but vegans will.

Plants are not sources of vitamin B12.

http://en.wikipedia....ism#Vitamin_B12

.

I previously said that vegans generally suffer for their beliefs. I am not a fan of Veganism.

Br Cornelius

[questionmark]

I previously said that vegans generally suffer for their beliefs. I am not a fan of Veganism.

Br Cornelius

Hmmm... maybe we should tell them that plants also feel, even if they don't scream... could that help solve a part of the overpopulation?

[rashore]

I doubt there are many beekeeper who are stupid enough to leave less than the hive needs to survive.

Well no, smart beekeepers don't starve their bees. But stealing food from the bees is one of the plausible arguments for not eating honey. I think it's akin to not having dairy products because it can be thought of as stealing food from calves.

[Guest]

Hmmm... maybe we should tell them that plants also feel, even if they don't scream... could that help solve a part of the overpopulation?

How deep does the rabbit hole go .... I feel vertigious.

Br Cornelius

[questionmark]

Well no, smart beekeepers don't starve their bees. But stealing food from the bees is one of the plausible arguments for not eating honey. I think it's akin to not having dairy products because it can be thought of as stealing food from calves.

Anybody who knows anything about bee keeping and animal husbandry knows that cows produce much more milk (especially our turbo cows with 8-12 gallons a day) than any calf could drink and bees produce up to 8 times the honey they need to get the hive through the winter (unless it was a year with hardly anything blooming), that is up to 40 pounds per hive-- they might need 5-6.

Only those who live in some kind of phantasy world could come to those conclusions.

Edited August 28, 2012 by questionmark

[Guest]

Well no, smart beekeepers don't starve their bees. But stealing food from the bees is one of the plausible arguments for not eating honey. I think it's akin to not having dairy products because it can be thought of as stealing food from calves.

Milk production in the modern factory farming system is one of the most brutal experiences imaginable. The calves are sent away to veal crates and the mothers are bred to the point where their life is short and painful.

Just to show I am not a holier than though type - I drink milk from that system. However out here in Ireland the Milk cows are not excessively overbred and the calves generally go off to become bullocks with a relatively happy life out in the fields.

Br Cornelius

Edited August 28, 2012 by Guest

[Grandpa Greenman]

I forgot to say drain the beans and air dry, last time I did them the day before and they were cool and it made the processing easier. You can use canned beans but they aren't as good.

[Guest]

We use a pressure cooker to batch prepare beans. We then freezer them in usable portions which works out massively cheaper than buying beans by the tin.

Br Cornelius

[Abramelin]

Hmmm... maybe we should tell them that plants also feel, even if they don't scream... could that help solve a part of the overpopulation?

But first let them read this:

RESPONSE IN THE LIVING AND NON-LIVING

BY

JAGADIS CHUNDER BOSE, M.A.(Cantab.), D.Sc.(Lond.)

PROFESSOR, PRESIDENCY COLLEGE, CALCUTTA

1902

http://www.gutenberg...6-h/18986-h.htm

Chapter V

PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE EFFECTS OF SINGLE STIMULUS AND OF SUPERPOSED STIMULI

http://www.gutenberg...h.htm#CHAPTER_V

CHAPTER VI

PLANT RESPONSE—ON DIPHASIC VARIATION

http://www.gutenberg....htm#CHAPTER_VI

CHAPTER VII

PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE RELATION BETWEEN STIMULUS AND RESPONSE

http://www.gutenberg...htm#CHAPTER_VII

CHAPTER VIII

PLANT RESPONSE—ON THE INFLUENCE OF TEMPERATURE

http://www.gutenberg...tm#CHAPTER_VIII

CHAPTER IX

PLANT RESPONSE—EFFECT OF ANÆSTHETICS AND POISONS

http://www.gutenberg....htm#CHAPTER_IX

.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Abramelin

[rashore]

Anybody who knows anything about bee keeping and animal husbandry knows that cows produce much more milk (especially our turbo cows with 8-12 gallons a day) than any calf could drink and bees produce up to 8 times the honey they need to get the hive through the winter (unless it was a year with hardly anything blooming), that is up to 40 pounds per hive-- they might need 5-6.

Only those who live in some kind of phantasy world could come to those conclusions.

I don't think it's a fantasy world.. I think it's ignorance mostly. Most people don't really think about or realize how much honey bees make, or how much milk cows make. They don't really think about farming practices and husbandry or food processing. A lot of people are amazingly ignorant about a lot of food stuff.

[Professor T]

Milk production in the modern factory farming system is one of the most brutal experiences imaginable. The calves are sent away to veal crates and the mothers are bred to the point where their life is short and painful.

Just to show I am not a holier than though type - I drink milk from that system. However out here in Ireland the Milk cows are not excessively overbred and the calves generally go off to become bullocks with a relatively happy life out in the fields.

Br Cornelius

It is disgusting, that here in New Zealand, some Dairy farmers perpously inject the cows with a chemical that aborts the calf prematurely. The calfs die. But the farmer gets an extra 6-12 weeks of milking and the Cash that goes with it.. (So much for our clean and green image down here)

Link to artical.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/calls-calf-killing-practice-banned-3680389

Edited August 28, 2012 by Professor T

[FurthurBB]

Whoaaa... are you telling me that some Veggies will not eat anything from the Allium family (onions , garlic), or dairy products made from milk, or Honey none of which involves Loss of Life tom an animal??? That is just bizarre and very definitely in the camp of "Religious Tradition" rather than reality.

I unfortunantly cannot eat honey. Wish I could.

Edited August 28, 2012 by FurthurBB

[Guest]

At this point in such a discussion Little Fish has usually accused me of been a eugenics obsessed Fascist

Br Cornelius

[questionmark]

At this point in such a discussion Little Fish has usually accused me of been a eugenics obsessed Fascist

Br Cornelius

He probably is at the convention and with all the cheering and applauding does not have time to insult you.

[skookum]

Well its virtually happened to me already. As a single parent not on a massive wage I can rarely afford meat for myself. I do for my son but I simply cannot afford it day to day. I have also a long time ago taken to eating only once a day myself and often pretty rank stuff like lentils etc.

Every time I go for groceries I am shocked at the constant increases, especially over the last few weeks. The British Medical Association (BMA) are simply loving this as they have been supporting getting meat priced out of the average persons budget for quite a few years. I guess somebody will be happy.

[Professor T]

I'm heading the same way I think..

I'm staring a home garden. All the doom & gloom regarding future food prices got me down to the garden shop.

Globalisation means America & Europes price spikes will effect us down here whether we like it or not. Even though it doesn't make much sense, it's going to happen.

[Guest]

There are multiple extremely reasonable explanations for why current food prices are going through the ceiling. Don't allow yourself to be dragged into CT explanations for why the man is taking your meat away.

Just look out into the real world to understand the multiple pressures on food supplies - starting with the price of oil.

Br Cornelius

[omerta]

Accept for the yeast, all the sources on that site are of animal origin: eggs and milk products. So, a vegetarian (belonging to one or two of the catagories I mentioned in my former post) won't have a lot of problems, but vegans will.

Plants are not sources of vitamin B12.

http://en.wikipedia....ism#Vitamin_B12

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

[Rolci]

Well if anybody ever watched Forks over Knives, they'll probably realize how much harm meat and dairy actually do to you, so it only makes sense to become a veg-junkie. What's the point of not smoking, if you eat meat? It's like you have a diet coke with your burger.