badeskov Posted August 30, 2012 #26 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Satellites do not orbit in such close proximity to each other. Since we have no sense of distance, we have no way of determining how close the objects were. Thus could easily be satellites. By very definition, they are static to the orbit of the earth. What exactly does this mean? I am not sure I understand. Whatever these objects are are clearly not on the same orbital path as the camera. Agreed. Since there is nothing else for them to orbit, they seem to be moving independently. Uhm, they could be orbiting the Earth. Just another orbital path. Cheers, Badeskov 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisdair.MacDonald Posted August 30, 2012 Author #27 Share Posted August 30, 2012 As this video purports to be 3 separate videos in one and the objects have the same movement every time they are seen, satellite or satellites seem more likely an explanation than UFO's. No everything orbits in the same path, nor at the same attitude. As was mentioned above, there is so much crap up there that it could be anything. It really could be anything. Personally, i think the video is intriguing but ultimately inconclusive. The Jerusalem UFO on the other hand..that is a different story, and probably a different thread.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisdair.MacDonald Posted August 30, 2012 Author #28 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Badeskov, the moon is a satellite of the earth, without the earth and its gravity it would not exist. Our man made space installations that most call satellite are bound by the same principles..being gravity. I think the objects pretty clearly seem to be defying the earths natural gravitational pull. Edited August 30, 2012 by Mider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted August 30, 2012 #29 Share Posted August 30, 2012 The Jerusalem UFO on the other hand..that is a different story, and probably a different thread.. If by "different story" you mean "clearly a hoax", then yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisdair.MacDonald Posted August 30, 2012 Author #30 Share Posted August 30, 2012 If by "different story" you mean "clearly a hoax", then yes. I've yet to see anyone 'clearly' debunk the real footage. The footage that was mass released to media outlets is not the real footage. That footage is clearly a hoax..and seems to have been a hastily made diversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted August 30, 2012 #31 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I've yet to see anyone 'clearly' debunk the real footage. The footage that was mass released to media outlets is not the real footage. That footage is clearly a hoax..and seems to have been a hastily made diversion. Sure is strange that in a city of well over a million of people at any time and the largest religious site in the world that the ones who took the video of the "UFO" are the only ones who saw it... Even MUFON says it's a hoax and they'll believe just about anything is a UFO. Can you provide us with the "real footage"? Edited August 30, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisdair.MacDonald Posted August 30, 2012 Author #32 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Sure. The 1st video is the footage aired by all the major news networks and media outlets. http://www.telegraph...lem-shrine.html This video shows the same video as above, but in comparison to 2 other 'real' videos. When you look at them side by side..it is clear that they are not the same videos. [media=] [/media]When you see how amateurish the 'officially released' version looks in comparison to the (alleged) actual videos, it just screams 'Disinformation'. Also, MUFON does not believe in everything they see..MUFON has their own agenda, and often try to use their influenced to discredit anything anyone finds other than themselves. Edited August 30, 2012 by Mider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted August 30, 2012 #33 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Yes. It's all disinformation and cover-ups. Couldn't possible be a hoax, right? Still waiting for those other witnesses. All 3 videos are terrible. It screams cgi when the light shoots into the sky. I've seen more convincing UFO's on the X-files. Edited August 30, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampgasBalloonBoy Posted August 30, 2012 #34 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Is it just me or does it seemed NASA doesn't spend a lot of money on camera? Seemed like most of their clips are poor quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted August 30, 2012 #35 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Badeskov, the moon is a satellite of the earth, without the earth and its gravity it would not exist. Our man made space installations that most call satellite are bound by the same principles..being gravity. Indeed they are. Both artificial and natural satellites are bound by those principles. I think the objects pretty clearly seem to be defying the earths natural gravitational pull. I don't think we can determine that from that clip. Since we only see them for a short period of time I don't see where they defy the Earth's gravitational pull. Am I missing something? Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisdair.MacDonald Posted August 30, 2012 Author #36 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Yes. It's all disinformation and cover-ups. Couldn't possible be a hoax, right? Still waiting for those other witnesses. All 3 videos are terrible. It screams cgi when the light shoots into the sky. I've seen more convincing UFO's on the X-files. Awesome! Well...at least we have the definitive opinion on the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted August 30, 2012 #37 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Awesome! Well...at least we have the definitive opinion on the subject! Keep your tinfoil hat on, buddy. The truth is out there. I'll quit derailing your thread now. Edited August 30, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisdair.MacDonald Posted August 30, 2012 Author #38 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Keep your tinfoil hat on, buddy. The truth is out there. I'll quit derailing your thread now. Thank you for your profound insight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted August 30, 2012 #39 Share Posted August 30, 2012 No, nor did I ever claim it to be scientific. I am convinced, i.e. in my opinion, that is what they are. However, since satellites/ice/debris exists and are observed all the time, don't you think chances are that is exactly what they are? In fact, cis-lunar space is literally crammed full of junk upto geostationary orbit. Hello Badeskov, I suppose one could argue that the fact that satellites/ice/debris etc are observed all the time then the chances that if it WAS one of the mentioned then it would have been identified by now Therefore the chances are it isnt as suggested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMacGuffin Posted August 30, 2012 #40 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) This looks more like the typical NASA/ISS footage, in which people often claim to see UFOs. [media=] [/media]And this: Edited August 30, 2012 by TheMacGuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMacGuffin Posted August 30, 2012 #41 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Then here we have one from June 2012 that supposedly shows "massive" UFOs. All of this at least looks more like real NASA/ISS video compared to the one that was posted here at first. I don't say that every one of these videos is a real UFO, but neither do I buy all of the usual NASA explanations, This one looks a little dubious to me, I admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted August 30, 2012 #42 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Hello Badeskov, I suppose one could argue that the fact that satellites/ice/debris etc are observed all the time then the chances that if it WAS one of the mentioned then it would have been identified by now Therefore the chances are it isnt as suggested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseCuster Posted August 30, 2012 #43 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) No, nor did I ever claim it to be scientific. I am convinced, i.e. in my opinion, that is what they are. However, since satellites/ice/debris exists and are observed all the time, don't you think chances are that is exactly what they are? In fact, cis-lunar space is literally crammed full of junk upto geostationary orbit.And beyond.There are graveyard orbits beyond geostationary where satellites are sometimes dumped when they're about to come to the end of their operational life. It's not practical to bring down geostationary satellites and burn them up in the atmosphere / crash them in the ocean like is regularly done, so they are sometimes just bumped into a higher orbit before they die. edit: found this interesting illustration of space debris around earth: Edited August 30, 2012 by Archimedes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futhalero Posted August 30, 2012 #44 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I believe the first video posted on this topic is two geostationary satelites. First, the videos always show the suposed UFOs right before sunrise, wich is the perfect time to see artificial satelites, because from your point of view, the sun is still below the horizon, but to the satelite, the sun is already shining (and the light is being reflected to your eyes, thus making then apear as points of light). Also, the video is speed up, so it's hard to determinate it's real distance or velocity. But, being so close to each other reminds me of ESA SYLDA's dual payload technique, used in Ariane 5 launch to put two satelites in geostationary orbit. Once the payload is in geostationary orbit, the satelites are released in oposite directions (never prograde or retrograde because that would change the orbit). This results in the satelites being apparently close to each other as you can see in this picture: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted August 30, 2012 #45 Share Posted August 30, 2012 And beyond. There are graveyard orbits beyond geostationary where satellites are sometimes dumped when they're about to come to the end of their operational life. It's not practical to bring down geostationary satellites and burn them up in the atmosphere / crash them in the ocean like is regularly done, so they are sometimes just bumped into a higher orbit before they die. edit: found this interesting illustration of space debris around earth: <snipped image> Indeed. We are rather good at filling up space with "stuff" I rather like that illustration. Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted August 30, 2012 #46 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I believe the first video posted on this topic is two geostationary satelites. First, the videos always show the suposed UFOs right before sunrise, wich is the perfect time to see artificial satelites, because from your point of view, the sun is still below the horizon, but to the satelite, the sun is already shining (and the light is being reflected to your eyes, thus making then apear as points of light). Also, the video is speed up, so it's hard to determinate it's real distance or velocity. But, being so close to each other reminds me of ESA SYLDA's dual payload technique, used in Ariane 5 launch to put two satelites in geostationary orbit. Once the payload is in geostationary orbit, the satelites are released in oposite directions (never prograde or retrograde because that would change the orbit). This results in the satelites being apparently close to each other as you can see in this picture: <snipped image> Very good points, thanks for posting Futhalero. Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted August 30, 2012 #47 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Hello Badeskov, I suppose one could argue that the fact that satellites/ice/debris etc are observed all the time then the chances that if it WAS one of the mentioned then it would have been identified by now Therefore the chances are it isnt as suggested Hey quillius, I don't see why that should be the case, to be honest. There are many thousand satellites in orbit and add to that all the debris, such as spent rocket stages and the like, which gives you a lot to actually see when the light and reflectivity is right. If something wasn't at a range where it posed a danger, why go through the trouble of trying to identify it unless it was truly spectacular? And this was in my opinion not at all spectacular. Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted August 31, 2012 #48 Share Posted August 31, 2012 http://en.wikipedia....ki/Space_debris Hey quillius, I don't see why that should be the case, to be honest. There are many thousand satellites in orbit and add to that all the debris, such as spent rocket stages and the like, which gives you a lot to actually see when the light and reflectivity is right. If something wasn't at a range where it posed a danger, why go through the trouble of trying to identify it unless it was truly spectacular? And this was in my opinion not at all spectacular. Cheers, Badeskov Are Satellites not tracked in space? I also thought the same for space junk/debris that were over a certain size? how can a it be a small bit of ice/debris OR a satellite? I struggle to see how we can put forward a suggestion that includes debris/ice and satellites in the same sentence when the size differences are quite different are they not? Is it not similar to saying its either a tincan or a Lorry or maybe a raindrop that I can see?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starchild1976 Posted September 1, 2012 #49 Share Posted September 1, 2012 You can learn a lot from an alien. Ask 'em yourselves. "Excuse me, green man from planet slime, are ya or aren't ya planning an invasion?I'd like to know when to take my vacation time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted September 2, 2012 #50 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Are Satellites not tracked in space? I also thought the same for space junk/debris that were over a certain size? how can a it be a small bit of ice/debris OR a satellite? I struggle to see how we can put forward a suggestion that includes debris/ice and satellites in the same sentence when the size differences are quite different are they not? Is it not similar to saying its either a tincan or a Lorry or maybe a raindrop that I can see?? Hi quillius, Satellites and debris is indeed tracked in space. However, there is a heck of a lot of it and we do not have a specific track. There are more than 8,000 large pieces flitting around in orbit and more than a million being tracked. With a general direction, non-specific, and no distance, the amount of possibles is enormous. That said, I have downloaded the raw SacCat data and am working on converting it to the Celestia data format for illustration. Unfortunately this is after hours so it is a bit slow Cheers, Badeskov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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