California bans homosexuality therapy

[questionmark]

California’s assembly has approved a bill prohibiting the use of therapy designed to “cure” homosexuality in teenagers, bringing the state closer to becoming the first to ban the practise in the US.

Gay rights advocates hailed the decision of the Democrat-controlled assembly as a major victory for gay rights. Gay right advocates have long insisted there is no medical foundation to conversion therapy, because homosexuality is not a disorder.

John Perez, a member of the assembly and the first openly gay speaker of California’s lower house said during the debate on Tuesday: “It is inappropriate for anyone, including parents, to subject anybody to dehumanising activity.”

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California's answer to the homo-marriage in the platform?

[None of the above]

Well done to the great state of California!

[Indiogene]

The new law will open a can of worms, but the significance of the movement to end maltreatment of homosexuals in our society is of goodwill we need to take the path of open acceptance of the GLBT community. Being gay is not a disease, nor a mental illness...and millions of openly gay people in society can't be wrong. The numerous failure "cures" to homosexuality are nothing more than bad mind control programs teaching gays to self-loathe themselves with inborne homosexual desires and to live a lie they are placed into in the name of perfectionist conformist attitudes.

[+OverSword]

I once watched an episode of Donahue, years and years ago, where they had a panel of 9 men that were all molested by female babysitters at a young age. All but one were gay. To me this would indicate that at least some homosexuality is caused by trauma, so this legislation doesn't seem right to me.

[GreatFenris]

I once watched an episode of Donahue, years and years ago, where they had a panel of 9 men that were all molested by female babysitters at a young age. All but one were gay. To me this would indicate that at least some homosexuality is caused by trauma, so this legislation doesn't seem right to me.

Yeah, sorry but no.

Psychological issues, sure. But there's not really any substantial evidence saying that you can "turn gay" due to trauma.

[Corp]

Damn good news.

[Simbi Laveau]

Homosexuality therapy is heinous . It should be made illegal ,not just erradicated .

[Simbi Laveau]

Yeah, sorry but no.

Psychological issues, sure. But there's not really any substantial evidence saying that you can "turn gay" due to trauma.

Well,many women who are abused as kids ,and strippers,turn gay .

I know quite a few women ,who are like this .

Strippers I know,hhhaattte men . It's like they get totally turned off by male behavior ,of this kind,and switch teams.

I think there's some basis to this premise,but I think people are usually predisposed toto begin with .

People who are just plain old heterosexual ,stay that way,but some people,who are more bisexual,just go in the opposite direction,because their original leanings,are repulsive to them now.

Most bisexuals ,are predominately,more one way or the other,but both ways work so ....I think many people may be bi ,to begin with,wether they e experimented ,or not .

Then people who are born homosexual,stay that way.

[+OverSword]

Yeah, sorry but no.

Psychological issues, sure. But there's not really any substantial evidence saying that you can "turn gay" due to trauma.

And yet 8 of the 9 men on that show just happened to be gay? Wow!! That really bucks the odds don't you think???

[The Mule]

Clockwork Orange, anyone?

[+OverSword]

Well,many women who are abused as kids ,and strippers,turn gay .

I know quite a few women ,who are like this .

Strippers I know,hhhaattte men . It's like they get totally turned off by male behavior ,of this kind,and switch teams.

I think there's some basis to this premise,but I think people are usually predisposed toto begin with .

People who are just plain old heterosexual ,stay that way,but some people,who are more bisexual,just go in the opposite direction,because their original leanings,are repulsive to them now.

Most bisexuals ,are predominately,more one way or the other,but both ways work so ....I think many people may be bi ,to begin with,wether they e experimented ,or not .

Then people who are born homosexual,stay that way.

I've had my share of stripper friends (mainly through stripper girlfriends) and that is absolutley true.

I was asking a coworkers opinion on this and he said he thought it should not be up to them to legislate wether this is legal treatment or not. He cited a relative who is a practicing hetro, but says he has struggled with feelings of homosexuality for years and views it as an addiction. Who is to say he is wrong? Great Fenris is possibly some kind of expert?

[+OverSword]

Clockwork Orange, anyone?

LOL! I doubt if it's like that!

[The Mule]

LOL! I doubt if it's like that!

They started doing just that in China back in the late 80s/early 90s...

[Glacknor]

And yet 8 of the 9 men on that show just happened to be gay? Wow!! That really bucks the odds don't you think???

Simple, they interview a hundred victims, pick 9 gay, 1 straight. Use the numbers to substantiate a false claim that people "turn gay" as result of a trauma. It's media programming, brainwashing.

I do think however that today's society does tend glorify being gay and some youth seek that persona to find ANY niche they fit in. However, this is an act to fit in, not an actual lifestyle.

I know several gay people, and every one of them knew from the time the first thought about sex what they were, maybe not with the term "gay", but at least that they're attractions were to the same sex.

Every time I've heard of these programs, it's always tactics of self-hate, condemnation - "you're wrong, you're a freak, God hates you, You're worthless to society." All HATE. Nothing good can EVER come from HATE - EVER!

[GreatFenris]

Well,many women who are abused as kids ,and strippers,turn gay .

I know quite a few women ,who are like this .

Strippers I know,hate men . It's like they get totally turned off by male behavior ,of this kind,and switch teams.

I think there's some basis to this premise,but I think people are usually predisposed to begin with .

People who are just plain old heterosexual ,stay that way,but some people,who are more bisexual,just go in the opposite direction,because their original leanings,are repulsive to them now.

Most bisexuals ,are predominately,more one way or the other,but both ways work so ....I think many people may be bi ,to begin with,whether they e experimented ,or not .

Then people who are born homosexual,stay that way.

*rubs temples*No, you don't "turn" gay. For example, an aversion to sexual or intimate contact with the opposite sex due to traumas in the childhood does not equate you going gay. It equates there being psychological trauma that causes issues.

And yet 8 of the 9 men on that show just happened to be gay? Wow!! That really bucks the odds don't you think???

You already got a good answer further down, but I'll be more crude about it: Bias. Sensationalist bias. Of course a show will do a claim like that, cherrypick the people they show up and some people with a very specific agenda will gobble it up like it's McDonalds.

I've had my share of stripper friends (mainly through stripper girlfriends) and that is absolutley true.

I was asking a coworkers opinion on this and he said he thought it should not be up to them to legislate wether this is legal treatment or not. He cited a relative who is a practicing hetro, but says he has struggled with feelings of homosexuality for years and views it as an addiction. Who is to say he is wrong? Great Fenris is possibly some kind of expert?

I like to think I'm a person that pays attention to facts and tries to read stuff. Rather than going with "A TV_show told me, and I have like friends who I base stuff on."

If I did the same I could joyfully declare religion dead in Sweden because all my friends have left religion!

Anecdotal evidence for the win! No, but seriously. Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much. It's why my essays used to be thrashed by mu Uni-teachers

[+OverSword]

You already got a good answer further down, but I'll be more crude about it: Bias. Sensationalist bias. Of course a show will do a claim like that, cherrypick the people they show up and some people with a very specific agenda will gobble it up like it's McDonalds.

Not being an American you are no doubt unfamiliar with the Donahue show. Believe me if they had a an agenda towards homosexuals it wouldn't have been against. The fact that so many of these guys were gay was not the subject matter of the show and the conclusion drawn was mine. The only agenda pushed on that episode was that females were not the only victims of child molesters. As far as so many of the victims turning out to be gay as adults, sure that's anectdotal evidence at best.

Simple, they interview a hundred victims, pick 9 gay, 1 straight. Use the numbers to substantiate a false claim that people "turn gay" as result of a trauma. It's media programming, brainwashing.

I do think however that today's society does tend glorify being gay and some youth seek that persona to find ANY niche they fit in. However, this is an act to fit in, not an actual lifestyle.

I know several gay people, and every one of them knew from the time the first thought about sex what they were, maybe not with the term "gay", but at least that they're attractions were to the same sex.

Every time I've heard of these programs, it's always tactics of self-hate, condemnation - "you're wrong, you're a freak, God hates you, You're worthless to society." All HATE. Nothing good can EVER come from HATE - EVER!

See above. Phil Donahue was absolutely not anti-gay. He probably did more to humanize and normalize gay people in the opinion of mainstream culture than any other person in the 1970's and 80's.

[Ashotep]

If a psychological trauma caused an issue that made you switch sides and you wanted to shouldn't you be able to seek help even if you are a teenager. I don't think its right to force someone into therapy or try to change someone against their will though.

I know this will make some mad but I think being born gay is another type of birth defect and we should accept this like we would someone being born missing a finger. Their still human and need companionship and love just like everyone else. Those that decide they are gay later in life may be doing it because of some sort of trauma or because they think it is cool.

[Wickian]

I once watched an episode of Donahue, years and years ago, where they had a panel of 9 men that were all molested by female babysitters at a young age. All but one were gay. To me this would indicate that at least some homosexuality is caused by trauma, so this legislation doesn't seem right to me.

I think that would fall under rape therapy more than gay therapy.

[GreatFenris]

Not being an American you are no doubt unfamiliar with the Donahue show. Believe me if they had a an agenda towards homosexuals it wouldn't have been against. The fact that so many of these guys were gay was not the subject matter of the show and the conclusion drawn was mine. The only agenda pushed on that episode was that females were not the only victims of child molesters. As far as so many of the victims turning out to be gay as adults, sure that's anectdotal evidence at best.

See above. Phil Donahue was absolutely not anti-gay. He probably did more to humanize and normalize gay people in the opinion of mainstream culture than any other person in the 1970's and 80's.

I read up on DOnahue last night, so what yo usay about the man seems legit. I'd like to know the context of the show however.

If a psychological trauma caused an issue that made you switch sides and you wanted to shouldn't you be able to seek help even if you are a teenager. I don't think its right to force someone into therapy or try to change someone against their will though.

I know this will make some mad but I think being born gay is another type of birth defect and we should accept this like we would someone being born missing a finger. Their still human and need companionship and love just like everyone else. Those that decide they are gay later in life may be doing it because of some sort of trauma or because they think it is cool.

Mad? Yeah, it's a pretty repulsive thing to say. It's as factual as saying being straight is a birth defect or being a man or a woman is a birth defect. It might be true if you wax philosophically about it, but it's not a logical conclusion.

[A Shadow]

What if a teen does/wants to see it as a illness and wants help to change?

Edited August 31, 2012 by A Silent Shadow

[questionmark]

What if a teen does/wants to see it as a illness and wants help to change?

If you "want to change" you generally don't need a therapy that "makes you want to change".

[A Shadow]

If you "want to change" you generally don't need a therapy that "makes you want to change".

I get you, I was just saying in general.

[Guest]

I would dearly like to see figures on the success rate (over the medium to long term) of such gender re-adjustement therapies. I would say it would be very low indeed.

It seems to me somewhat abusive to subject a person to a process which implicitly denies their biological sexuality, it would be far better to council the person on dealing with their sexuality in a hostile environment - that seems medically ethical.

Br Cornelius

[questionmark]

I get you, I was just saying in general.

Nobody is banning all therapy, they are banning this specific therapy because it causes more harm than benefit and is the closest thing to quackery since snake oil.

[karmakazi]

For a person who is gay because a trauma caused them to abhor the opposite sex, they can willingly seek therapy but that therapy would be aimed at dealing with the trauma, not trying to change their sexual orientation. That kind of therapy would not and should never be banned.

People can, indeed, become gay due to trauma. I'm sure only a small percentage are homosexual because of trauma, for most it is just who they are. I have known a few people who had this specific reason for being gay. One was a woman who as a child/teenager was molested incessently by her father and he loaned her out to his friends. The abuse included other kinds of physical abuse as well, such as burning with cigarettes and of course verbal abuse about how worthless she was. She exhibited difficulty speaking to men or making eye contact with them. She had a distinct impression that all men were evil or rapists.