Evolution - really?

[Blueogre2]

You're just wrong on so many levels. Evolution has never been disproven.

Now I expect you to apologize to those of us that aren't scientifically illiterate.

Ya know what? I hear all these atheists and evolutionists try so hard to disprove God, and creationism, they come with their witty comebacks but in the end they can't prove a single thing about evolution. Because there is nothing to prove thats why. God made the universe, it's painfully obvious.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Ya know what? I hear all these atheists and evolutionists try so hard to disprove God, and creationism, they come with their witty comebacks but in the end they can't prove a single thing about evolution. Because there is nothing to prove thats why. God made the universe, it's painfully obvious.

Actually, everything about evolution can be proven. Here is a simple example;

1. The universal genetic code. All cells on Earth, from our white blood cells, to simple bacteria, to cells in the leaves of trees, are capable of reading any piece of DNA from any life form on Earth. This is very strong evidence for a common ancestor from which all life descended.

2. The fossil record. The fossil record shows that the simplest fossils will be found in the oldest rocks, and it can also show a smooth and gradual transition from one form of life to another.

Please watch this video for an excellent demonstration of fossils transitioning from simple life to complex vertebrates.

3. Genetic commonalities. Human beings have approximately 96% of genes in common with chimpanzees, about 90% of genes in common with cats (source), 80% with cows (source), 75% with mice (source), and so on. This does not prove that we evolved from chimpanzees or cats, though, only that we shared a common ancestor in the past. And the amount of difference between our genomes corresponds to how long ago our genetic lines diverged.

4. Common traits in embryos. Humans, dogs, snakes, fish, monkeys, eels (and many more life forms) are all considered "chordates" because we belong to the phylum Chordata. One of the features of this phylum is that, as embryos, all these life forms have gill slits, tails, and specific anatomical structures involving the spine. For humans (and other non-fish) the gill slits reform into the bones of the ear and jaw at a later stage in development. But, initially, all chordate embryos strongly resemble each other.

In fact, pig embryos are often dissected in biology classes because of how similar they look to human embryos. These common characteristics could only be possible if all members of the phylum Chordatadescended from a common ancestor.

5. Bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Bacteria colonies can only build up a resistance to antibiotics through evolution. It is important to note that in every colony of bacteria, there are a tiny few individuals which are naturally resistant to certain antibiotics. This is because of the random nature of mutations.

When an antibiotic is applied, the initial innoculation will kill most bacteria, leaving behind only those few cells which happen to have the mutations necessary to resist the antibiotics. In subsequent generations, the resistant bacteria reproduce, forming a new colony where every member is resistant to the antibiotic. This is natural selection in action. The antibiotic is "selecting" for organisms which are resistant, and killing any that are not.

Just because YOU don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true.

[White Crane Feather]

Actually, everything about evolution can be proven. Here is a simple example;

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Just because YOU don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true.

so true on so many levels.

[Blueogre2]

Okay, a good response, at least you know how to defend your position. But every piece of evidence you have presented could also be explained by God creating all living things with a degree of similarity. As for the bacteria thing, that is an example of micro evolution, which does happen. Thats why there are different breeds of dogs and other such things. But evolution does not account for the origin of life.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Okay, a good response, at least you know how to defend your position. But every piece of evidence you have presented could also be explained by God creating all living things with a degree of similarity. As for the bacteria thing, that is an example of micro evolution, which does happen. Thats why there are different breeds of dogs and other such things. But evolution does not account for the origin of life.

Evolution has never claimed to explain the origins of life. It only has to do with the changes in a population of organisms over time. More specifically, the change in the allele frequency of a population over time. That is all evolution is. Micro and macro evolution are the same thing, the only difference is time.

Edit: God did it is not even a hypotheses. It can be a belief, but is scientifically meaningless. (Thus a biologist like myself dismisses it) It cannot be tested, it cannot be observed, and more importantly, cannot be falsified. The beauty of the Theory of Evolution is that it would only take one piece of evidence to falsify it. One out of place fossil, one organism (on Earth) that does not share genetic similarities. This evidence has not, and has never, been found.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1

[The Mule]

Okay, a good response, at least you know how to defend your position. But every piece of evidence you have presented could also be explained by God creating all living things with a degree of similarity. As for the bacteria thing, that is an example of micro evolution, which does happen. Thats why there are different breeds of dogs and other such things. But evolution does not account for the origin of life.

dogs?? really guy?? You dont even know humans bred all those dog species???

[Blueogre2]

dogs?? really guy?? You dont even know humans bred all those dog species???

Of course I do, why would you think I did not? Human breeding is an example of controlled micro evolution

[Abramelin]

Evolution is about how life evolved, not about the origin of life.

I hope the thick skulled humans amongst us will some day allow that one to enter their brains.

However, I have no great hopes about that ever happening soon.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Of course I do, why would you think I did not? Human breeding is an example of controlled micro evolution

Micro and macro evolution are the same thing. They work based on the same mechanisms and have the same end result.

[Abramelin]

There are times I think threads like these are proof of ongoing evolution.

Some of us will never understand anything (by just being stubborn or dangerously religious), and while they will be frantically busy trying to find out how to tie their shoes, others are building rockets and spaceships to escape this hell-hole of stupidity.

.

[Blueogre2]

There are times I think threads like these are proof of ongoing evolution.

Some of us will never understand anything (by just being stubborn or dangerously religious), and while they will be frantically busy trying to find out how to tie their shoes, others are building rockets and spaceships to escape this hell-hole of stupidity.

.

Really dude? There is nothing stupid about not wanting to risk your eternal fate on a half baked theory that can't even be demonstrated in a lab much less in reality. I don't have anything against evolution, and if it were to turn out to be true then I would be totally cool with it, it would just show that God created us over eons of gradual change instead of instantly but I just don't see anything that proves to me without a shadow of a doubt that its real. And I am not about to anger God by falling for such a thing

[Abramelin]

Really dude? There is nothing stupid about not wanting to risk your eternal fate on a half baked theory that can't even be demonstrated in a lab much less in reality. I don't have anything against evolution, and if it were to turn out to be true then I would be totally cool with it, it would just show that God created us over eons of gradual change instead of instantly but I just don't see anything that proves to me without a shadow of a doubt that its real. And I am not about to anger God by falling for such a thing

They did demonstrate that in a 'lab': ask any microbiologist.

The evolution of microbes goes exponentially faster than that of any other being.

Read about it, or ignore it.

Your choice.

[Alienated Being]

Denying evolution equates to denying the principles of gravity. You, sir, belong in the psyche ward.

[Blueogre2]

All these posts fighting so hard for evolution but what are you fighting for? To prove that humans are an accident of nature? That the universe has no real direction or point to it. That death is the end and our lives are ultimately sad jokes? Are you really going to fight for that?

[BaalZebul Nehebkau]

All these posts fighting so hard for evolution but what are you fighting for? To prove that humans are an accident of nature? That the universe has no real direction or point to it. That death is the end and our lives are ultimately sad jokes? Are you really going to fight for that?

o

no offense

[Blueogre2]

Good avoidance of the actual points being made.

Nobody here is a nihilist, and if they are, it doesn't relate at all to their religion. I'm happy and an atheist. If you look at it as "Humans are an accident of nature", then, yeah, it sounds nihilistic. Good thing I don't remind myself that everyday. Also, I don't care really how human beings got here. Death may be the end, but we all have to let go eventually. You have one life to live, so live it.

I'm not fighting for pessimism, I'm fighting for the facts.

You may not remind yourself of it but nevertheless if you accept the evolutionary world view it's a fact that you can not escape. Life is a accident and their is no hope of a afterlife. You say you don't care how we got here but really how we got here is the most important thing because it determines everything else.

[Abramelin]

All these posts fighting so hard for evolution but what are you fighting for? To prove that humans are an accident of nature? That the universe has no real direction or point to it. That death is the end and our lives are ultimately sad jokes? Are you really going to fight for that?

No, we were hoping you will finally understand what evolution is all about. But I think many will have run out of gas.

Now you go believe in your Savior, your God and your heaven and Hell.

Let me give you a final hint: evolution is not about 'accidents of nature'.

[Imaginarynumber1]

You may not remind yourself of it but nevertheless if you accept the evolutionary world view it's a fact that you can not escape. Life is a accident and their is no hope of a afterlife. You say you don't care how we got here but really how we got here is the most important thing because it determines everything else.

Oh look, evolution happening right in front of ours eyes! In a lab, no less! http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091018141716.htm

Actually, how were got here determines nothing other than how we got here. Your religious paranoia aside, there are mountains of evidence that support evolution. In fact, all observations of the natural world support it, as does biology, genetics, chemistry, physics, anatomy, anthropology, paleontology, psychology, neuroscience, all medicine today, in fact, virology, microbiology, etc. I could go on, but what's the point? You won't listen.

[Alienated Being]

All these posts fighting so hard for evolution but what are you fighting for? To prove that humans are an accident of nature? That the universe has no real direction or point to it. That death is the end and our lives are ultimately sad jokes? Are you really going to fight for that?

Frankly, I could not conceive a concept more elegant and beautiful than the creation of absolutely everything as a result of mere chance. If you are arguing from the position of a creator, then who created the creator? In order to have a creator, it needs to be created, and so on, and so forth... as I have reiterated countless times, in many other threads.

Also, new scientific theories suggest that, perhaps, there never was "nothing"... rather, energy and matter has always existed.

I don't think anything is more pathetic than to live your life for a fictitious, "divine" being, either. It does not make sense to me. What DOES make sense to me, however, is creating your own reason to live; developing your own will to survive. That, to me, is more admirable than blindly accepting nonsense as fact, and living your life by it.

I also find more comfort in knowing that I am only given ONE LIFE, and one life alone... as it gives me the motivation to spend more time with loved ones, to learn as much as I can about the world around me, etc.

Finally, there is nothing to fight for - it simply is, whether you like it, or not.

As Richard Dawkins so truthfully elaborated, "There is GRANDEUR... in this view of life."

Edited September 3, 2012 by Alienated Being

[BaalZebul Nehebkau]

Frankly, I could not conceive a concept more elegant and beautiful than the creation of absolutely everything as a result of mere chance. If you are arguing from the position of a creator, then who created the creator? In order to have a creator, it needs to be created, and so on, and so forth... as I have reiterated countless times, in many other threads.

Also, new scientific theories suggest that, perhaps, there never was "nothing"... rather, energy and matter has always existed.

I don't think anything is more pathetic than to live your life for a fictitious, "divine" being, either. It does not make sense to me. What DOES make sense to me, however, is creating your own reason to live; developing your own will to survive. That, to me, is more admirable than blindly accepting nonsense as fact, and living your life by it.

I also find more comfort in knowing that I am only given ONE LIFE, and one life alone... as it gives me the motivation to spend more time with loved ones, to learn as much as I can about the world around me, etc.

Finally, there is nothing to fight for - it simply is, whether you like it, or not.

As Richard Dawkins so truthfully elaborated, "There is GRANDEUR... in this view of life."

lol because of your avatar I read all of your posts in Christopher Hitcnens' voice now dammit. It's kind of cool, though, as as if he were still with us now.

[Arbitran]

It isn't guesswork in the slightest, and the evidence is staggering. If you can honestly ask where the evidence for evolution is, then you clearly haven't bothered to read the very simple Wikipedia article outlining it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_for_common_descent

And as a biologist, I find it slightly unsettling that you find it unsettling that the single most-robust, highly-documented fact in the history of science is taught in schools. And for the record, humans did evolve from primates; and we are primates.

[Arbitran]

You may not remind yourself of it but nevertheless if you accept the evolutionary world view it's a fact that you can not escape. Life is a accident and their is no hope of a afterlife. You say you don't care how we got here but really how we got here is the most important thing because it determines everything else.

For the record, evolution makes no comment whatsoever on the possibility of an afterlife; it neither confirms, nor denies it. It doesn't claim that life is an accident. And how we got here really doesn't determine much at all, frankly. Trillions of people have come before us who have managed to live perfectly happy lives without having the slightest idea of where we came from.

[Alienated Being]

Trillions of people

T'is a bit of an exaggeration, no?

[Arbitran]

T'is a bit of an exaggeration, no?

Maybe, maybe not. Probably. Although who's to say I didn't mean to include non-human persons as well? Eh?

[Arbitran]

Humans are animals too. I consider non-human species persons also. I know it isn't a popular idea, nor one which is generally accepted under legality, but it is an ideological one.