Evolution - really?

[Quaentum]

It really is sad that some creationists don't understand what Evolution is or how it works but accept the incorrect blanket assumption that it deals with the creation of life, when it doesn't. Even sadder is that they accept as a historical work a book that had it's beginnings some 3500 years ago and has many things within it that clearly show it can not be taken as historical in it's entirety.

[Blueogre2]

Except that it did. Prove to me that just ONE person went to heaven. Just one.

I will prove that the moment you can prove evolution

[The Mule]

Dude...do you know what a mule is?

Mule 1 - Ogre 0

[Blueogre2]

Then why don't homo sapiens appear earlier in the fossil records? Why do they only appear in the most recent layers, same with radiocarbon dating. Why do homo sapien bones date later then homo erectus or any of the other hominids up until that point? And before that, nothing but more 'primitive' primates as well dating earlier and earlier in the fossil record where there are other 'primitive' mammels and then BAM! Only small mammels and the dinosaurs. Radiocarbon dating all but proves that species change over a long, long and gradual time span.

Monkeys wouldn't 'become' humans. Evolution is not a set path.

I'm sure Arbitran can explain it better then I ever could, seeing as he's a biologist and I'm a plucky gal who likes to read.

Like I said the data has been manipulated to suggest evolution. Because scientists have a vested interest in proving their precious theory.

[Hasina]

So wait wait wait wait wait. All proof is fabricated? So any proof that's brought out is fake because evolution takes longer then a human life span to happen? Well darnit guys, back to the science labs, we gotta fakey up better stuff!

What about the mistranslations and multiple copies of the Bibles, re-edited to fit into the times? Which is the Bible version you follow? I'm actually curious, I've read a few versions so I wish to know which one I need to draw things from.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Hasina

[The Mule]

I will prove that the moment you can prove evolution

You've been give 6 pages of proof and all you've done is simply deny it. Show us YOUR proof or ****.

[RockabyeBillie]

Like I said the data has been manipulated to suggest evolution. Because scientists have a vested interest in proving their precious theory.

What have they got to gain by manipulating data? World domination? They have just as much interest in our true origins as anyone else and they don't want to accept an unproven explanation from an old book. They're not all mad scientists with crazy hair and lab coats trying to take over the world, you know?

[Blueogre2]

So wait wait wait wait wait. All proof is fabricated? So any proof that's brought out is fake because evolution takes longer then a human life span to happen? Well darnit guys, back to the science labs, we gotta fakey up better stuff!

What about the mistranslations and multiple copies of the Bibles, re-edited to fit into the times? Which is the Bible version you follow? I'm actually curious, I've read a few versions so I wish to know which one I need to draw things from.

I have several versions over the years, but right now English Standard Version

[Blueogre2]

What have they got to gain by manipulating data? World domination? They have just as much interest in our true origins as anyone else and they don't want to accept an unproven explanation from an old book. They're not all mad scientists with crazy hair and lab coats trying to take over the world, you know?

Yeah I know that, but most of them are hardened atheists like Richard Dawkins and as such they would reject any thing that proves creation rather than evolution

[RockabyeBillie]

Yeah I know that, but most of them are hardened atheists like Richard Dawkins and as such they would reject any thing that proves creation rather than evolution

That's not true. Atheists are logical people. If we found proof of a powerful being, a creator, we'd believe it. Even Dawkins. He might be shaken by it, but if the proof is there, it's there. But right now, it just seems too fanciful to truly accept.

[Blueogre2]

That's not true. Atheists are logical people. If we found proof of a powerful being, a creator, we'd believe it. Even Dawkins. He might be shaken by it, but if the proof is there, it's there. But right now, it just seems too fanciful to truly accept.

Atheists are not logical they are emotional just like everybody else. There is proof everywhere but people refuse to accept it, and Dawkins would never give up just read the God Delusion to see what I mean

[RockabyeBillie]

Atheists are not logical they are emotional just like everybody else. There is proof everywhere but people refuse to accept it, and Dawkins would never give up just read the God Delusion to see what I mean

What proof?

[Blueogre2]

What proof?

Have you ever heard about something called the Physical Constants? If not check it out on wikipedia. Basically the universe is set up to support life. How could it be that way if not for God?

[thewonderman]

What came first the Chicken or the Egg?

[Hasina]

Have you ever heard about something called the Physical Constants? If not check it out on wikipedia. Basically the universe is set up to support life. How could it be that way if not for God?

But if it wasn't 'set up' for life we wouldn't be here to say that the universe is built to support life. Which means... aaaaahhhh! Lovecraft was right, the Horrorterrors want to consume us!

Edited September 4, 2012 by Hasina

[Blueogre2]

But if it wasn't 'set up' for life we wouldn't be here to say that the universe is built to support life. Which means... aaaaahhhh! Lovecraft was right, the Horrorterrors want to consume us!

All that talk about possible universes where God did not create life is bunk. As far as we know their is only one universe, but even if there were others God would rule them too

[Hasina]

I'm not saying there are other universe (and that just silly that he'd rule them all, think he'd mention that he was cheating on us in the Bible). What I'm saying is if the Universe hadn't turned out the way it is, where fragile little things like life can turn up, gaze up at the stars and ask 'why us, why here, why now?', then there'd be no argument. The stars would dance their orbits in galaxies, or whatever they'd be in this Uniberse incapable of life. Nothing to ask questions and spin tales and give soul to the soulless things.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Hasina

[Blueogre2]

I'm not saying there are other universe (and that just silly that he'd rule them all, think he'd mention that he was cheating on us in the Bible). What I'm saying is if the Universe hadn't turned out the way it is, where fragile little things like life can turn up, gaze up at the stars and ask 'why us, why here, why now?', then there'd be no argument. The stars would dance their orbits in galaxies, or whatever they'd be in this Uniberse incapable of life. Nothing to ask questions and spin tales and give soul to the soulless things.

Oh okay, I get what you are saying. But such a universe could not exist, because even if man had never been created there would still be God and the Angels

[Hasina]

Your basic fundamental, God, is not at odd with my belief really, no God. I have faith there isn't a God because I don't see his hand in the universe. I see the laws that govern it as the fundamental things. There's no need for a God in this Universe really because it sorts itself out, whether at the behest of life or not. Seeing evolution at work and believing it to 'be guided' by God, I don't really have an issue with. But ignoring evidence that is pretty clear, with some need to work out the exact details, is just silly.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Hasina

[Blueogre2]

Your basic fundamental, God, is not at odd with my belief really, no God. I have faith there isn't a God because I don't see his hand in the universe. I see the laws that govern it as the fundamental things. There's no need for a God in this Universe really because it sorts itself out, whether at the behest of life or not. Seeing evolution at work and believing it to 'be guided' by God, I don't really have an issue with. But ignoring evidence that is pretty clear, with some need to work out the exact details, is just silly.

But evolution does not explain the origins of life or give meaning to it. Without God we have no real reason to exist at all. No morality, no peace, no hope for an afterlife, no nothing just this horrible world and death at the end

[TheBanana]

i think to truly understand evolution, you need to understand just how long these things took.

macro and micro evolution are the same thing. the difference is that micro evolution seems easier to believe to people with little knowledge of science or how old the universe is, because you can see it happen in your lifetime. life evolved over millions of years, which is such a large amount of time-a human lifetime is just a tiny dot on the timeline of how old the earth is. it happens so slowly, we dont notice its happening. like how the earth is turning, but we dont even notice it because it is so slow, or how the hour hand on the clock moves, but when we watch it, it doesnt seem to move at all. like how children get bigger each day, but we dont notice them growing each day until the days add up enough to be noticeable.

it kinda makes me sad to think that people think scientists are actively trying to lie to us to hide the "truth". science isnt about disproving god, its about learning and growing, and making new discoveries. people get so entrenched in their worldview, that they would rather believe in a worldwide conspirancy about scientists lying than face that science says they are wrong.

there is plenty of evidence that evolution happened. fossils have been found that show evolution gradually happening. there are some useless parts humans that we have since evolved out of a use for, like appendixes and wisdom teeth. if you look at a human embryo, it has a tail and looks a lot like the embryo of many other animals. why would people lie and make up fake animal bones just to prove creationists wrong? theres no reason for it at all.

this doesnt even disprove god. im an atheist (i see no reason why there is a god, and think these things could happen on their own without god doing it), but i know loads of religious people, and they all believe that evolution happened, but god started the big bang and guided it along (ive never met a creationist in real life, theyre very rare over here). this makes more sense than denying science and saying god just instantly made everything. maybe when the bible was created, people werent at a point to understand what evolution is, so instead, god told them about how creation happened by using metaphors and stories to make things simpler (like how 6 days could be 6 billion years because time works differently in heaven, and each "day" evolution reached a new point with the help of god?) and then hoped we would find it out for ourselves and understand it properly as we got more advanced.

[Hasina]

But evolution does not explain the origins of life or give meaning to it. Without God we have no real reason to exist at all. No morality, no peace, no hope for an afterlife, no nothing just this horrible world and death at the end

That's the thing though, scientists admit they haven't found out how life began, it's a mystery at the moment. And that's the truly exciting thing about science! Seeing the mysteries of the Universe and trying to find out how it happened.

There doesn't have to be this overall meaning to life, given to us by someone else. I much prefer having the chance to give meaning to my life, to others by enjoying the time we have together, to argue, to laugh, to cry. Life is the gift, the people in it are the meaning. I need no God to make my life wonderful.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Hasina

[Blueogre2]

That's the thing though, scientists admit they haven't found out how life began, it's a mystery at the moment. And thatms the truly exciting thing about science! Seeing the mysteries of the Universe and trying to find out how it happened.

There doesn't have to be this overall meaning to life, given to us by someone else. I much prefer having the chance to give meaning to my life, to others by enjoying the time we have together, to argue, to laugh, to cry. Life is the gift, the people in it are the meaning. I need no God to make my life wonderful.

Well I can respect that. But for me it's not enough, I seek the higher meaning of knowing the reason we exist and the wonderful security of knowing I have a place to go after I die. Furthermore, I know that God is the only thing that can save my soul

[RockabyeBillie]

Believing in God doesn't explain how he got here, either. Just.. poof! magic?

[Hasina]

And that's totally okay with me as well, I got no probs with that view point. It's just how we both look and listen to the evidence of the natural world and many see evolution at work, and you do not see it but something else. On a small but related tangent, do you accept plate tectonics?