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The Puzzler

Great Pyramid not built by Khufu?

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kmt_sesh

Kmt_Sesh,

Do you find anything mysterious about Ancient Egypt? If so, what would that be? Can you point us(me) what you find unexplored area of Egyptology?

Sorry for the tardy response, L. Just tonight I remembered having read your question and never replying to it. Hey, at least I remembered reading it.

There is plenty about ancient Egypt that is mysterious—not only to me as an amateur historian, but to professional historians themselves. We are far from answering all the questions, and quite frankly all of the questions will never be answered. That's all right.

But I'm afraid what I or an Egyptologist might find mysterious might not be of much interest at all to the average poster at UM. Believe it or not most Egyptologists do not research or study pyramids, so their research interests have taken them in other directions. To be honest, the pyramids are not even my own chief interest, nor the greatest source of mystery to me. Most people at UM will never believe me, but how pyramids were built is largely understood and well evidenced. All aspects of the building process? Certainly not, but much of it, yes.

More important to the field of Egyptology (and by extension to me, too) are unanswered questions about every-day events and socio-political history. Were all temple chantresses allowed to marry and sire children? How many villages and towns still lie under the sands, to be discovered and excavated? Why did Akhenaten enforce such upheaval in his fostering of Atenism? Was there a lengthy co-regency between Amunhotep III and Amunhotep IV before the latter renamed himself Akhenaten? What is the true identity of the mummy in KV55, who we now know genetically to have been Tut's father? What was the actual number and battle configuration of the chariot corps in Ramesses II battle against the Hittites at Kadesh? Was Ramesses III successfully assassinated in the harem conspiracy?

Not terribly thrilling stuff to the average poster at UM, is it? But these are the kinds of things with which Egyptologists continue to wrestle. Well, these and a great many more questions. Believe it or not, answering these sorts of questions will be a hell of a lot more important to our fuller understanding of the pharaonic civilization than knowing precisely how blocks were stacked or exactly how many were delivered per minute.

To me personally, one of the great mysteries is the origin of hieroglyphs. This is a very important unanswered question to all Egyptologists, and the ancient language happens to be one of my favorite topics. Dating to around 3200 BCE and found on ivory tags and dockets in Tomb Uj at Abydos, the earliest-known hieroglyphs seem to pop up as an already functioning and coherent script. That's not how written scripts originate, so what happened before Tomb Uj?

If I came to Egypt (in any time period when Pyramids were done) as a visitor at time what would be most striking to me? To my todays view?

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but I'm guessing you're asking about going back in time to the Pyramid Age. Are you kidding? All Egypt nuts, from enthusiasts to scholars, fantasize about this sort of thing, whether they care to admit it or not. Even I would have to admit, going back and seeing them working on the Great Pyramid would be a top priority.

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cladking

To me personally, one of the great mysteries is the origin of hieroglyphs. This is a very important unanswered question to all Egyptologists, and the ancient language happens to be one of my favorite topics. Dating to around 3200 BCE and found on ivory tags and dockets in Tomb Uj at Abydos, the earliest-known hieroglyphs seem to pop up as an already functioning and coherent script. That's not how written scripts originate, so what happened before Tomb Uj?

I really enjoyed the part about knowing how the pyramids were built. :clap:

I've been looking more closely at Gardiner w16 and see they think it's a jar

in a holder. I find it fascinating that it's in all the words meaning "cold water"

and by itself might mean "fountain". It also figures in the word "khbw" which

I believe means height of the sky and is variously translated. It also seems

to mean "sky" as well.

...Go figure.

Do you know what justification exists for believing this thing is actually a jar?

It looks like water shooting up to some container or something.

VW.gif

http://hieroglyphs.n.../pager.pl?p=04b

I've been able to deduce a few of the heiroglyphs and am seriously considering

working on them.

Edited by cladking

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cladking

For instance n1 is the sky and represents what Nut looks like with the primeval mound below;

N.gif

V9 &10 are the shen rings and mean unite. They are devices used to attach ropes together;

VW.gif

This stuff is so easy I'm surprised Egyptologists never figured it out.

Edited by cladking

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kmt_sesh

I really enjoyed the part about knowing how the pyramids were built. :clap:

I've been looking more closely at Gardiner w16 and see they think it's a jar

in a holder. I find it fascinating that it's in all the words meaning "cold water"

and by itself might mean "fountain". It also figures in the word "khbw" which

I believe means height of the sky and is variously translated. It also seems

to mean "sky" as well.

...Go figure.

Do you know what justification exists for believing this thing is actually a jar?

It looks like water shooting up to some container or something.

VW.gif

http://hieroglyphs.n.../pager.pl?p=04b

I've been able to deduce a few of the heiroglyphs and am seriously considering

working on them.

I'm not familiar with W16's use in words like "height of the sky" or "fountain," although the latter is plausible given the vocabulary for which the glyph is employed. By far its most common usage is as qbHw, "libation" or "libation vase." You're correct that the exact same word was for "cold water" (the spelling is slightly different in its full form). These are all directly related to ritual libations in temples and tombs. Wall reliefs are replete with depictions like this one:

iramses3.jpg

This happens to be a depiction of a king presenting offerings before some deity (it's what I could find quickly on Google images) but the same sort of thing is seen with even greater frequency in private tombs. Offering formulae inscribed for the deceased might contain specific mentions of cold water, above and beyond the usual bread and beer and oxen and fowl. The same is mentioned in temple offering inscriptions for deities.

The jars the king is holding in the above scene are more or less the same as W16. They might more accurately depict W15, which has the same flowing water but no jar stand (that's what the "boxy" shape is at the bottom of the W16 glyph). It's simply water being poured for a libation. Sometimes the water might be traveling a long way between a priest and the deceased, if some object or inscription was necessary to place in the center. We have a perfect example of this at the Field Museum but regrettably I've never photographed it and cannot display it. The odd length of the water flowing from the vessel to the recipient throws some people, but in the Egyptian mind it makes perfect sense.

Moreover, many examples of these jars have been found in archaeological digs. They are sometimes ceramic and sometimes stone.

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Big Bad Voodoo

@Kmt_Sesh

Not problem for late response. Personally Im inerested in history so it is thrilling to hear what puzzles Egyptologists. I like those open qiestion you mentioned.

Can you explain that about Akhenaten?

And yes you understand my question but not completly. If I came back ,for example in old kingdom, what do you think would be most striking to me?

You are right about origins of hieroglyphs. Do you think that they started writing even before Sumerians? Do you have any theory?

I dont know did you look documentary provided in this thread The relevation of Pyramids.

It was interesting.

Anyway I have question which I stun upon after watching it.

Is GP 8 sided instead of four and do you think it was done on purpose?

Isnt stuning that GP was built in 20 years and that Pyramid of the Sun in Mesoamerica was built 150 years and it was half height?

Once we discussed about granite vases from old kingdom which I was convinced that either they didnt done by Egyptians or that they knew how to melt stones.

I was in Louvre museum as you might maybe remeber. I seen them. But backthen I wasnt aware of their mysterious background so sadly I didnt picture them. Anywayin this documentary it was said that they found 40.000 (fourthy thousands) of those vases under one pyramid. Do you know more about it? What do you say about it?

It is contradict your view that they are done by experts.

Can you tell us about origin of cubit? Was it connected with meter? How long was it between 52-53 cm?

I studied a little golden ratio/number. It is interisting area. Math is in fact language and geometry too. So they are telling us something with those messures.

Where they aware (AE) of golden ratio and Pi?

Its interesting all geometry about GP. Lets say that we draw invisible circle around GP and distance from that cirlce and center of pyramid was same as height of GP.

Or lenght of pyramid minus height we get 314,16 meters which is 100*Pi.

What about golden ratio in upper chamber?

Upper chamber lenght is 10 times Pi.

What surprised me that Pi minus golden number on square we get cubit. Imagine this. That is stuning if is it true.

And they even go further with two circles around GP one inside one outside to get number equal to speed of light but I didnt understand how they get to it.

Anyway just want to hear your views. I have mine but I prefer yours.

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Banksy Boy

Oh you can also type these co-ordinates into Google maps and look at it through the satellite. It's the exact latitude of the grand gallery.

29.9792458°N, 31°8'3.11"E

http://maps.google.com/

Which just so happens to be equal to the speed of light in a vacuum.

http://en.wikipedia..../Speed_of_light

Considering they apparently had no idea what a metre was, these Egyptians weren't half a lucky bunch of so and so's yet again.

If you can't be bothered here's a Youtube clip

[media=]

[/media] Edited by Banksy Boy

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Quaentum

Oh you can also type these co-ordinates into Google maps and look at it through the satellite. It's the exact latitude of the grand gallery.

29.9792458°N, 31°8'3.11"E

http://maps.google.com/

Which just so happens to be equal to the speed of light in a vacuum.

http://en.wikipedia..../Speed_of_light

Considering they apparently had no idea what a metre was, these Egyptians weren't half a lucky bunch of so and so's yet again.

If you can't be bothered here's a Youtube clip

[media=]

[/media]

It's not the exact match put forth in the video.

29 deg 58 min 45.28 sec, the location of the grand gallery converts to 29.979244 The only way to get the exact match of 29.9792458 is to have 285 in the seconds column of the latitude and that would change the latitude to 30 deg 2 min 45 sec and throw everything off.

Also anything man made on the same latitude as the grand gallery or on the same latitude in the south whether it be a pyramid, city, village or a farmers outhouse must have been put there because of the speed of light instead of it being a geographical consideration.

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blackdogsun

Oh you can also type these co-ordinates into Google maps and look at it through the satellite. It's the exact latitude of the grand gallery.

29.9792458°N, 31°8'3.11"E

curious anecdote

so what would inspire the Ancient Egyptians to center the Great Pyramid on a meridian measured from some obscure point in Greenwich England 4500 yrs ago?

edit: actually, my bad, 29.9792458°N is a latitude measured from the equator (better grab my coffee now)

Edited by blackdogsun

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Banksy Boy

You tell me....luck maybe :hmm: Just like all the other bits of luck they seemed to have.

Would be interesting to know what odds Ladbooks, Paddy Power and Bet Fred would give on it all though. :D

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cladking

The jars the king is holding in the above scene are more or less the same as W16. They might more accurately depict W15, which has the same flowing water but no jar stand (that's what the "boxy" shape is at the bottom of the W16 glyph). It's simply water being poured for a libation. Sometimes the water might be traveling a long way between a priest and the deceased, if some object or inscription was necessary to place in the center.

If the origin isn't known then this is simply a guess. A very plausible and educated

guess, but still a guess.

I believe it might be something else entirely.

Everything is interpretation. It fits together because it has been interpreted to fit

together.

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kmt_sesh

If the origin isn't known then this is simply a guess. A very plausible and educated

guess, but still a guess.

I believe it might be something else entirely.

Everything is interpretation. It fits together because it has been interpreted to fit

together.

The origin of a libation vessel? You're trying to make this mysterious?

When depictions show figures pouring the contents of this vessel onto a deity or onto a mummy, interpretation isn't terribly difficult. Especially when the standard caption to the scene is "Anointing [so and so]." Orthodoxy's explanation for this is based on ample evidence. What do you have to counter it?

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cladking

The origin of a libation vessel? You're trying to make this mysterious?

When depictions show figures pouring the contents of this vessel onto a deity or onto a mummy, interpretation isn't terribly difficult. Especially when the standard caption to the scene is "Anointing [so and so]." Orthodoxy's explanation for this is based on ample evidence. What do you have to counter it?

I can't pursue this because I'll be accused of taking the discussion off topic.

Suffice to say that maybe this thing is exactly what it looks like and exactly what it expresses. That it

is a jar in a holder leaking from the top on one side is interpretation. That it might contain cold water,

mean fountain, represent a libation, and be part of a word that Egyptology interprets to mean sky

might actually be determinative of the meaning. Maybe it simply looks like a vase leaking from the top

in a stream.

Perhaps that square holder has another name that has nothing whatsoever to do with a vase holder.

Language progresses in a simgle direction (forward in time) and we are trying to interpret it backward

in time. It might not be mysterious at all, just misinterpreted.

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kmt_sesh

I can't pursue this because I'll be accused of taking the discussion off topic.

Suffice to say that maybe this thing is exactly what it looks like and exactly what it expresses. That it

is a jar in a holder leaking from the top on one side is interpretation. That it might contain cold water,

mean fountain, represent a libation, and be part of a word that Egyptology interprets to mean sky

might actually be determinative of the meaning. Maybe it simply looks like a vase leaking from the top

in a stream.

Perhaps that square holder has another name that has nothing whatsoever to do with a vase holder.

Language progresses in a simgle direction (forward in time) and we are trying to interpret it backward

in time. It might not be mysterious at all, just misinterpreted.

I thought the word might have some relation to "fountain" and I was able to find it. The word for fountain might be qbH and contains the glyph in its spelling. I say "might be" because the dictionaries provide cautionary question makes. Its usage as such is attested only in the Litanies of Horus and Set, so it's not completely certain.

I was also able to find its relationship with a word for "sky," which I didn't know about. It's a fuller hieroglyphic spelling containing several glyphs, and the W15 or W16 glyph might or might not appear near the end of the spelling. In the fuller spelling it's not needed. When it appears it doesn't express any physical or literal relation to a vessel but is used for its phonetic representation, in the manner by which many hieroglyphs were employed. But when used for "sky" the word must have the sky determinative (N1) at the end.

The language is not misinterpreted. When an amateur historian such as I can undergo the training and do the work required, and when I can translate inscriptions dating to anywhere from the Early Dynastic Period to the Ptolemaic Period, obviously the people who came before me and who did the really hard work, knew what they were doing. And all of them were a hell of a lot smarter than I. That's for sure.

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Banksy Boy

@Kmt_Sesh

Not problem for late response. Personally Im inerested in history so it is thrilling to hear what puzzles Egyptologists. I like those open qiestion you mentioned.

Can you explain that about Akhenaten?

And yes you understand my question but not completly. If I came back ,for example in old kingdom, what do you think would be most striking to me?

You are right about origins of hieroglyphs. Do you think that they started writing even before Sumerians? Do you have any theory?

I dont know did you look documentary provided in this thread The relevation of Pyramids.

It was interesting.

Anyway I have question which I stun upon after watching it.

Is GP 8 sided instead of four and do you think it was done on purpose?

Isnt stuning that GP was built in 20 years and that Pyramid of the Sun in Mesoamerica was built 150 years and it was half height?

Once we discussed about granite vases from old kingdom which I was convinced that either they didnt done by Egyptians or that they knew how to melt stones.

I was in Louvre museum as you might maybe remeber. I seen them. But backthen I wasnt aware of their mysterious background so sadly I didnt picture them. Anywayin this documentary it was said that they found 40.000 (fourthy thousands) of those vases under one pyramid. Do you know more about it? What do you say about it?

It is contradict your view that they are done by experts.

Can you tell us about origin of cubit? Was it connected with meter? How long was it between 52-53 cm?

I studied a little golden ratio/number. It is interisting area. Math is in fact language and geometry too. So they are telling us something with those messures.

Where they aware (AE) of golden ratio and Pi?

Its interesting all geometry about GP. Lets say that we draw invisible circle around GP and distance from that cirlce and center of pyramid was same as height of GP.

Or lenght of pyramid minus height we get 314,16 meters which is 100*Pi.

What about golden ratio in upper chamber?

Upper chamber lenght is 10 times Pi.

What surprised me that Pi minus golden number on square we get cubit. Imagine this. That is stuning if is it true.

And they even go further with two circles around GP one inside one outside to get number equal to speed of light but I didnt understand how they get to it.

Anyway just want to hear your views. I have mine but I prefer yours.

I think he is ignoring you lol.

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Big Bad Voodoo

I think he is ignoring you lol.

Hi BanksyBoy!

You was my discuss partner on the same side of table while Kmt and others were on other side. As I remember you have some wonderful posts.

Anyway, I dont think that Kmt ignores me. It aint his style. He hates ignorance. Although we two have some unsattle tails which followed us I think thats behind us, that we solve that.

It was all said when debate was raging.

Maybe he skip it, maybe he saw it but dont know what to say, maybe dont have a time, work family...maybe he is holding sugar to come last...

Im 100% sure that he will respond.

Take care.

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Big Bad Voodoo

Btw I saw your post and Im not ignoring you. Just think its best to observe closely. Dont have anything smart to say or even speculate.

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Banksy Boy

I do hope that kmt will reply to your post and as you say am sure he will. Just thought I'd give him a friendly poke and prod at his wobbly belly with a stick as it were :devil::D:P

I found that film fascinating and thought provoking to say the least, well worth the hours spent watching it.

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Harsh86_Patel

Sorry for the tardy response, L. Just tonight I remembered having read your question and never replying to it. Hey, at least I remembered reading it.

There is plenty about ancient Egypt that is mysterious—not only to me as an amateur historian, but to professional historians themselves. We are far from answering all the questions, and quite frankly all of the questions will never be answered. That's all right.

But I'm afraid what I or an Egyptologist might find mysterious might not be of much interest at all to the average poster at UM. Believe it or not most Egyptologists do not research or study pyramids, so their research interests have taken them in other directions. To be honest, the pyramids are not even my own chief interest, nor the greatest source of mystery to me. Most people at UM will never believe me, but how pyramids were built is largely understood and well evidenced. All aspects of the building process? Certainly not, but much of it, yes.

More important to the field of Egyptology (and by extension to me, too) are unanswered questions about every-day events and socio-political history. Were all temple chantresses allowed to marry and sire children? How many villages and towns still lie under the sands, to be discovered and excavated? Why did Akhenaten enforce such upheaval in his fostering of Atenism? Was there a lengthy co-regency between Amunhotep III and Amunhotep IV before the latter renamed himself Akhenaten? What is the true identity of the mummy in KV55, who we now know genetically to have been Tut's father? What was the actual number and battle configuration of the chariot corps in Ramesses II battle against the Hittites at Kadesh? Was Ramesses III successfully assassinated in the harem conspiracy?

Not terribly thrilling stuff to the average poster at UM, is it? But these are the kinds of things with which Egyptologists continue to wrestle. Well, these and a great many more questions. Believe it or not, answering these sorts of questions will be a hell of a lot more important to our fuller understanding of the pharaonic civilization than knowing precisely how blocks were stacked or exactly how many were delivered per minute.

To me personally, one of the great mysteries is the origin of hieroglyphs. This is a very important unanswered question to all Egyptologists, and the ancient language happens to be one of my favorite topics. Dating to around 3200 BCE and found on ivory tags and dockets in Tomb Uj at Abydos, the earliest-known hieroglyphs seem to pop up as an already functioning and coherent script. That's not how written scripts originate, so what happened before Tomb Uj?

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but I'm guessing you're asking about going back in time to the Pyramid Age. Are you kidding? All Egypt nuts, from enthusiasts to scholars, fantasize about this sort of thing, whether they care to admit it or not. Even I would have to admit, going back and seeing them working on the Great Pyramid would be a top priority.

Is it true that egyptologist only know the consonants and not the vowels in respect to phonetics of egyptian heiroglyphics? Was the vowels in egyptian heiroglyphics ever a subject of debate or is it still?

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kmt_sesh

Hi BanksyBoy!

You was my discuss partner on the same side of table while Kmt and others were on other side. As I remember you have some wonderful posts.

Anyway, I dont think that Kmt ignores me. It aint his style. He hates ignorance. Although we two have some unsattle tails which followed us I think thats behind us, that we solve that.

It was all said when debate was raging.

Maybe he skip it, maybe he saw it but dont know what to say, maybe dont have a time, work family...maybe he is holding sugar to come last...

Im 100% sure that he will respond.

Take care.

And respond I shall, L. It is not my practice to ignore legitimate questions, and your questions are legitimate. I fear some of them are off-topic to this discussion so I will tread carefully where necessary, but rest assured I do plan on replying.

And, yes, it's a mixture of work and time. My apologies for not having replied already. Thanks for your patience.

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Big Bad Voodoo

And respond I shall, L. It is not my practice to ignore legitimate questions, and your questions are legitimate. I fear some of them are off-topic to this discussion so I will tread carefully where necessary, but rest assured I do plan on replying.

And, yes, it's a mixture of work and time. My apologies for not having replied already. Thanks for your patience.

Its okay,I will wait for it. And I think that you show that you sometimes answer on unlegimite questions. They are off topic but somehow connected.

I have one more question.

Maybe this is unlegimite and far streched. Well I dont know was this already asked...What do you think is there any links between Aboriginals and Egyptians?

Look at this throwsticks. They are Egyptians.

zlmrc.jpg

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kmt_sesh

@Kmt_Sesh

Not problem for late response. Personally Im inerested in history so it is thrilling to hear what puzzles Egyptologists. I like those open qiestion you mentioned.

Can you explain that about Akhenaten?

And yes you understand my question but not completly. If I came back ,for example in old kingdom, what do you think would be most striking to me?

Sorry for the long delay, L, but as promised I've returned. Seeing as how this discussion has begun to peter out, I don't mind answering questions that might not be directly relevant to the topic.

I think most people would agree that the best thing to see, if they could travel back to the Old Kingdom, would be the building of the Great Pyramid. I don't for a moment think that we would see Atlanteans or Aliens or levitation or other such silliness—I'd just like to see the workmen at work and watch, for a bit, how it was done.

It's certainly not the most important thing to know about the Old Kingdom, but it would be the most interesting to see.

As for Akhenaten, I mentioned more than one thing about him in Post 151. Anything specific you'd like to know from that post?

You are right about origins of hieroglyphs. Do you think that they started writing even before Sumerians? Do you have any theory?

That debate is still raging. Everyone used to think the Sumerians were first with their cuneiform, but that changed with Günter Dreyer's discovery and excavation of Tomb Uj at Abydos. It used to be believed that Sumerian cuneiform predated Egyptian hieroglyphs by at least a century, if not more, but the inscribed dockets and tags and vessels in Tomb Uj have pushed back the origin of hieroglyphs considerably. Carbon analysis of organic materials from Tomb Uj has assigned it a date of 3320 BCE, which happens to be right at about the same time that Sumerian cuneiform first appeared. So for the moment it is not clear which one came first. Hopefully future research and excavations will answer the question with greater certainty.

I dont know did you look documentary provided in this thread The relevation of Pyramids.

It was interesting.

Anyway I have question which I stun upon after watching it.

Is GP 8 sided instead of four and do you think it was done on purpose?

If you're talking about 4MinuteNile's video (Post 82), I watched only segments of it and was not impressed. It struck me as a regurgitation of very old and misguided fringe "doctrine"—the same mistakes and misdirection rehashed, in other words. But, no, the Great Pyramid is not eight sided. All Egyptian pyramids—from Djoser's in Dynasty 3 to Ahmose I's in Dynasty 18—were composed of four sides. There's no reason to view the Great Pyramid as somehow separate from all of the others.

Isnt stuning that GP was built in 20 years and that Pyramid of the Sun in Mesoamerica was built 150 years and it was half height?

I am not nearly so well versed in the ancient history of Mesomerica as I am in the ancient Near East, but I would take such a statement with a boulder of salt. What I do know about many ancient colossal structures in Mesoamerica is that they were not built all at one, single time. Excavations of them have revealed numerous layers of building activities and expansions, stretching over generations in some instances. That's about all I can say here. I'd be more comfortable if a poster with a better background in Mesoamerican civilizations would comment on this.

Once we discussed about granite vases from old kingdom which I was convinced that either they didnt done by Egyptians or that they knew how to melt stones.

I was in Louvre museum as you might maybe remeber. I seen them. But backthen I wasnt aware of their mysterious background so sadly I didnt picture them. Anywayin this documentary it was said that they found 40.000 (fourthy thousands) of those vases under one pyramid. Do you know more about it? What do you say about it?

It is contradict your view that they are done by experts.

I remember the debate about the vessels, in some past thread. I'd rather not descend into that tar pit again because nothing positive came from it. All I can say is that I, for one, have no doubt that ancient Egyptians carved them. Can I say exactly what methods they used? No, of course I cannot, but I won't rob them of their achievements (big and small) just because I personally don't have the answers.

The pyramid you mention is the Step Pyramid of Djoser, from Dynasty 3. It's in Saqqara and was the first pyramid built (more than 4,600 years ago). Not all of the vessels found in its subterranean passages and chambers were of granite. I cannot recall the composition of most of them, nor the precise number, but it was indeed in the many thousands. Many of these vessels were inscribed with the names of kings going back to Dynasty 1, and in fact many or most of these particular vessels probably dated back to that time. Given that they're inscribed with the names of kings who lived before Djoser's time, the consensus is that Djoser was honoring them and preserving their memory by having their names associated with his tomb. An important point is that many of these vessels didn't even contain anything—the royal names on them is what was important. Many other vessels contained grain and other food stuffs, as offerings and provisions to Djoser.

Can you tell us about origin of cubit? Was it connected with meter? How long was it between 52-53 cm?

I do not know about the origin of the cubit, but it was a unit of measure taken from the elbow to the finger-tip of an average man. It has nothing to do with meters.

I studied a little golden ratio/number. It is interisting area. Math is in fact language and geometry too. So they are telling us something with those messures.

Where they aware (AE) of golden ratio and Pi?

Its interesting all geometry about GP. Lets say that we draw invisible circle around GP and distance from that cirlce and center of pyramid was same as height of GP.

Or lenght of pyramid minus height we get 314,16 meters which is 100*Pi.

What about golden ratio in upper chamber?

Upper chamber lenght is 10 times Pi.

What surprised me that Pi minus golden number on square we get cubit. Imagine this. That is stuning if is it true.

And they even go further with two circles around GP one inside one outside to get number equal to speed of light but I didnt understand how they get to it.

Anyway just want to hear your views. I have mine but I prefer yours.

When it comes to debates about mathematics, I tend to remain at some distance because I have been and always will be incredibly bad with math. It was always my worst subject as a kid in school, from elementary through college. There are books on the topic I keep meaning to buy (math used in ancient Egypt, that is), but to be honest it's not a subject that interests me a great deal and so those books keep getting put on the back burner.

Despite my deficiencies on the subject, many Egyptologists and other specialists are very adept in their studies of math in ancient Egypt. I leave it to them to explain. Several mathematical papyri have survived to demonstrate what mathematical principles the Egyptians knew, and what they didn't. But as it happens, a very good friend of mine is a professor of advanced mathematics at a university not far from Chicago, and she also happens to be a die-hard Egyptophile just like me. She is highly well versed in many subjects about ancient Egypt, including pharaonic people's application of math in their building projects.

My friend is definitive on the answer that the Egyptians did not know Pi. I bow to her on this, given her profession and expertise. That certain building projects might reflect some aspect of Pi to the modern eye is merely incidental. The Egyptians were not deliberately using the principle in their building projects.

Let me know if I've left something unanswered, L.

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kmt_sesh

Its okay,I will wait for it. And I think that you show that you sometimes answer on unlegimite questions. They are off topic but somehow connected.

I have one more question.

Maybe this is unlegimite and far streched. Well I dont know was this already asked...What do you think is there any links between Aboriginals and Egyptians?

Look at this throwsticks. They are Egyptians.

zlmrc.jpg

And on this subject, the Egyptians did in fact use throw sticks for hunting. They were not quite like the boomerangs of Australia, but boomerangs are throw sticks and one cannot help to see the resemblance.

The bottom line, however, is that no evidence exists for any kind of contact between or connections with ancient Australia and Egypt. There seem to be more than a few nut cases in Australia today who would have you believe differently (think of the hoax of the Gosford Glyphs), but their arguments as such are comically inept and do not survive any level of scrutiny.

All it is, is a similar device used for hunting.

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Harsh86_Patel

Any take on the 'Hyksos' Sesh,the shepard kings.

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Big Bad Voodoo

All it is, is a similar device used for hunting.

AE used it in war purpose too as I remember.

Edited by the L

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Big Bad Voodoo

@kmt_sesh

Why do you think that it wasnt hieroglyphs invented in Abydos? Maybe Dreyer found first hieroglyphs.

40 000 vases-thats amazing...and those math about GP, its interesting that Pi appears often in GP math.

Anyway AE knew about golden ratio.

Thanks.

Edited by the L

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