Loch Ness Sighting, Summer 1987

[catherineross]

Hello, all! Thanks again for your insightful responses - I had no idea there would be so much interest generated in this kind of thing. To address a few points - if the animal was a horse (or deer) swimming (and it would have to have been been a fairly large specimen of either), it would have to be very dark and very dead afterwards (as we watched for some time after the thing submerged and nothing reappeared in the vicinity). The picture of the swimming horse with the dolphin following was very interesting, however - as this at least captured the sense of movement, which I would describe as wormy (if that makes sense). Is it possible a horse could have been swimming and dragged down by a big eel or some other big fish with a fluke or fish-tail? As I've also said, there were no ears that I can recall either seeing or mentioning at the time. If it was a seal, it would have to have had a long, thick neck which continued to a similar, tubular body. Out of interest, what is a 'giant, flippered eel'?

As promised, here are some very crude sketches (I haven't shaded in the animal - try to imagine it very dark or black ):

Sorry they are so simplistic but I'm no artist!

[Bling]

Great thread, I'm really interested in the Loch Ness Monster stories. I visited Loch Ness some years ago and looked for as long as I could (it was freezing!) but saw nothing, But seeing just how big the Loch is and how black it is (which I guess is because it's so deep?) I can imagine there being some creature we've yet to officially recognise living there. It's a very calm yet eerie place to visit especially in the colder weather and the water is choppy.

[Sakari]

Not sure what else to tell you.

If you research enough, you will see the Loch can not hold large aquatic animals like that.There is not a sufficent food source for that, and obviously something like that would need a breeding population to survive this long.

You saw something natural, and it looked like something you have never seen. ( illusion )......

The Lochness Monster has been discussed many times, and the Loch has been sonar scanned from one end to the other with a string of boats.

No big creatures there at all.

[Dan'O]

I believe these animals travel easily up the rivers and into lakes and are fish eaters. They have to keep moving in search of food and do not stay in one area long. The loch is connected to the ocean via a river.

[Macroramphosis]

In a previous part of my life, I supplied a piece of equipment to each of those boats that took part in Operation Deepscan during 1987 (no, nothing to do with the sonar) and as a result I got to know Adrian Shine quiet well. As a commercial user of the Lowrance sounders they were using during the search I was quite familiar with the equipment as well that recorded the scanning of the loch. It never surprised me that they never found anything concrete for several reasons :

- those Lowrance paper graph units (I think it was the X15 or X16 from memory but I could be wrong) were no failsafe devices and even at 200' they could easily miss a target if circumstances did not align. At the very extreme of the depths that Loch Ness falls too I would imagine vouchsafing a complete and accurate return of every inch of the bottom would be impossible.

- there was also no guarantee that every boat operator during that search was 100% brilliantly accurate with their use of the sounders. It's difficult enough if you are very familiar with equipment like that to record accurate returns, let alone someone roped in to run a boat and fill a sounder with paper just because one happened to know how to steer a boat. I might be wrong, and each boat might have had a certified naval sonar operator on board, but I'd bet money they did not.

- and without being disrespectful to Shine himself, he was not what I would have called an experienced boatman, and seeing film footage of Deepscan convinced me that the job was never done with the precision and accuracy that the search warranted. Even today, I think the odds of finding something that actually wants to evade you are quite low. Sonar pings underwater with great effect and would have made life very uncomfortable for a mammal/reptile with air-filled organs. It would certainly have wanted to get away.

I know Darrel Lowrance a little too. He never struck me as a man to make things up and he has always adamantly maintained that they DID pick up some anamolies anyway - something he said was large and he had no experience of. I seem to think the echo in question was actually picked up after the line of official boats had passed by and a support boat spotted it - a good example of the lack of preciseness I mentioned above.

Sakari's comment about large animals and food also should be re-thought. If there is an animal in there, and it is a physical one, no one knows what it eats. It might be a herbivore, a "minute organism" eater, or perhaps a scavenger that is extremely long-lived and only needs to feed at great intervals, perhaps on whatever it finds dead on the loch floor.

[Sakari]

Sakari's comment about large animals and food also should be re-thought. If there is an animal in there, and it is a physical one, no one knows what it eats. It might be a herbivore, a "minute organism" eater, or perhaps a scavenger that is extremely long-lived and only needs to feed at great intervals, perhaps on whatever it finds dead on the loch floor.

So, you think there is just one?.... " it " ?

No breeding population?

So, something large like that does not need a large amount of food?.......And that is, if this guy is alone ( impossible ).

Large animals and food :

Grey Whale..... Gray whales eat when they're in the polar seas. An adult eats about 660 lb of food a day or 340,000 pounds during their 4 month feeding period.

Bowhead Whale......2 tons of Krill a day.

Elephant....An adult elephant will eat 300-600 pounds of food per day.

I doubt I need to go on....How big is the Loch? ( I all ready know )

Edited September 15, 2012 by Sakari

[Macroramphosis]

I know how big the loch is, Sakari. I have actually been on the water there several times. Have you ? I've seen the bottom disappear off the screen and wondered what might be down there.It's a lot of very dark, deep water, interconnected with other large bodies of water, which I have also been on. It's a spooky place in bad weather and low light.

As for big animals eating a lot of food - hmm. If this animal is a reptile it could actually get by with very little food. It might even go for weeks/months or even up to a year without food, though it is true to say that reptiles such as crocodiles do then "pig out" when given the opportunity - a dead deer or a dead sheep, for example, would fit that bill admirably.

Oh, and I wasn't specifically referring to just one animal, real or otherwise. And I'd hazard a guess if there is an animal, or animals, in there - they're not grey whales or elephants.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Macroramphosis

[Sakari]

I know how big the loch is, Sakari. I have actually been on the water there several times. Have you ? I've seen the bottom disappear off the screen and wondered what might be down there.It's a lot of very dark, deep water, interconnected with other large bodies of water, which I have also been on. It's a spooky place in bad weather and low light.

As for big animals eating a lot of food - hmm. If this animal is a reptile it could actually get by with very little food. It might even go for weeks/months or even up to a year without food, though it is true to say that reptiles such as crocodiles do then "pig out" when given the opportunity - a dead deer or a dead sheep, for example, would fit that bill admirably.

Oh, and I wasn't specifically referring to just one animal, real or otherwise. And I'd hazard a guess if there is an animal, or animals, in there - they're not grey whales or elephants.

No I have not been there, have you been to Langlois?...I have.

That area is to cold to support a reptile in the lake....

Not only that, but as I mentioned ( with about every topic anymore ) this has been discussed countless times, and is just a broken record on either side saying the same things....So, I will leave any other discussion on this to those topics that have all of these arguments ten fold...

If anything new comes in, I would love to see it.Until that time.....I am not going to repeat myself, or anyone else.

No offense, I think you agree.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Sakari

[Macroramphosis]

If anything new comes in,

like this sighting, you mean ? I personally haven't seen anything newer than the OP's sighting over the past few days....

love to see it.Until that time.....I am not going to repeat myself, or anyone else.

No offense, I think you agree.

Well, no. I don't agree, of course - which is why we're having this conversation. But heck, you wander off if you want Have a great night and sleep well.

[Sakari]

like this sighting, you mean ? I personally haven't seen anything newer than the OP's sighting over the past few days....

Well, no. I don't agree, of course - which is why we're having this conversation. But heck, you wander off if you want Have a great night and sleep well.

The sighting is a new claim, yes.

The explanations, and discussions ( debates if you will of facts ) are the same.This is where I mean if something new comes in....Bones, carcass, live specimen.

You have a great night also, I am off to bed.

[Wandering]

Perception example: The "Essex Lion" - On August 26 this year, 4 people (not anonymous - all named and photographed) watched what they thought to be a lion with binoculars from across a field for 30 minutes. When they phoned the police, they were asked to get confirmation from so they knocked on another caravan and two independent people (again not anonymous – named and photographed) agreed that it looked like a large cat “two sheep” in length (7-8ft). It sparked a major search involving helicopters with heat-seeking equipment while armed police officers and zoo staff with tranquilliser guns searched the area. It was a domestic house cat.

Can you provide a link where that was confirmed? I have only seen an article wherethe cats owners claimed it was their cat.

[Macroramphosis]

The field was on Cherry Island, which is at the southern end of the loch - people who were looking for the Loch Ness Monster then saw the lion, which is assumed to have escaped from a circus near Inverness. It had been eating salmon apparently.

I think that's what happened........ .

[Night Walker]

Can you provide a link where that was confirmed? I have only seen an article wherethe cats owners claimed it was their cat.

http://www.anorak.co...d-stuffed.html/

[Harlequin Dreamer]

Nice story & you got to see something that people spend thousands on and never even come close well done you are one of the lucky few who got to see Nessie.

[Wandering]

http://www.anorak.co...d-stuffed.html/

Thanks mate, but come on, I said I had only seen an article where it was claimed the cat was the lion and you link me to an article headling "Was the lion of essex really a cat?" That's not exactly what I call confirmed.

[Dynamo X]

Tales of Kelpies or Water Horses in Scotlands Lochs go back centuries. Here is another link to some literature. http://lochnessmystery.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/new-book-on-loch-ness-monster.html

[Night Walker]

Thanks mate, but come on, I said I had only seen an article where it was claimed the cat was the lion and you link me to an article headling "Was the lion of essex really a cat?" That's not exactly what I call confirmed.

Dude, the pictures confirm it, more than the article. Use your own eyes:

Ms Murphy, of St Osyth, said: "From the picture, he's identical - he's big, he's always out in the fields.

"Maine Coons like to hunt, and where he was is a particular area he likes to go.

"He's always coming back with birds."

Her three-year-old pet is about 28in (70cm) in length.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-essex-19397686

The Essex Lion is a great example of how wrong our perceptions can be at times - individually and in groups - and as such, is relevant to this discussion on Loch Ness sightings. However, if you'd like to examine the Essex Lion in more detail (because this case is still very interesting in its own own right) then perhaps we should do so it its own thread: [Merged x 2 ] Lion on Loose in Essex

[U. N.Owen]

Catherinross:

1) You are to be commended for seeing fit to mention this excellent and quite detailed sighting.The report is by no means unique, and gains credibility from the fact that you do not seem to be seeking personal glory or gain from it, and because you claim, at least, to have no previous interest in this subject.

2)The 25 year gap between your experience and your publicising of it is to be much regretted. It puts a lot of confusing time and distance between you and the event and it means that the crucial other witness has become hard to approach. Furthermore, back in 1987 this would have generated more interest in the locality, and there would have been better resources to respond to it.

3) Nevertheless the sighting really ought to be logged in some way! Alas there is no longer any reliable centre where a person with such experiences can be directed to. However, I recommend that you tell `Glasgow Boy` who runs the Loch Ness Mystery blogspot (lochnessmystery.blogspot.com/). He is a `Nessie-believer` but otherwise very sane and analytical in his approach, and I am sure he will treat the matter with due discretion.

4) You seem convinced that the appearance of the phenomena was a unique one to you: I can tell you however, that there have been a great many reports over the years that tally with what you say you saw.Descriptions of a horse or dog like head with some sort of `mane` are quite common and your detail about it looking `slimy` and even a bit `disgusting` is also a very familiar. (To find good records of sightings you need to get off-line and read some books.)

5) Indeed, as Proxima (above #41) pointed out, even before there was any talk of the `Loch Ness Monster` there had been a tradition in various Lochs of Scotland oftalk of `water-kelpies` - or `water-horses`, in English.

6) You have come onto what is effectively a sceptics site.These people put their faith in the fact that everything in the world has been discovered already and hence everything must therefore be mundane in origin. They are often right.They will, however, tell you that not only did you NOT see the Loch Ness monster, but that you couldn't possibly have seen such a thing.This is where I part company with them.It is quite possible that what you and your partner saw was something relatively mundane like a seal or matinee: but you yourself deny this, and such an explanantion can by no means be taken as read.

7) If an articulate person such as yourself keeps quiet about their experience for a quarter century - then how many other witnesses out there (concerning Loch Ness and other issues) are there who have also kept what they saw to themselves?

8) In short this is a classic sighting - close quarters, multiple witnesses, interesting details and, apparently of something not obviously mundane. The backdated nature of the claim does make it problematic however. Otherwise it has come at the right time, that is, just after the disappointing hullabaloo over the George Edwards hoax.

9) If you are a trickster catherineross, then God-forgive you.

[Dynamo X]

Hello catherineross. U.N.Owen has suggested letting Glasgow boy know about this sighting, which is just what I was thinking as well. I know that he reads this forum & may already have read your post, but I don't believe that he has added any posts himself for a while. I can pretty much guarantee that he will be interested to hear from you, or anyone else with this type of information, but at the end of the day it's up to you. I must admit that it's always intriguing to hear about this type of sighting and he can be contacted at the link provided by U.N.Owen above.

[silverity]

I thought I would bump this after nine years. I cannot see the lady's sketches at the top of page 2, can anyone provide them?

Thanks,

 

[silverity]

On 9/12/2012 at 6:26 PM, catherineross said:

Dear All,

I've joined this forum to share (and hopefully receive explanatory feedback) on a sighting myself and my then husband had of something in Loch Ness in the late summer of 1987. At the time, we were both baffled and perplexed by what we saw, and acknowledged that it was something neither of us could identify rationally. Of course, we were familiar with the legendary 'monster', but the creature we viewed didn't really conform to what I've ever expected 'Nessie' to look like - it certainly did not look like a plesiosaur with a long, thin neck. Anyway, we were holidaying in Inverness and took a trip to the Loch purely for its beautiful, highland views. We were walking long a road which runs alongside the Loch in the vicinity of Dores, where we stopped at a little layby which overlooked the Loch (there was no beach, just a steep incline to the water). It was, if I recall correctly, about four o'clock in the afternoon (although it might have been earlier) and the weather was fine and dry. We were watching the water and looking across the Loch for about ten minutes when we spotted what I took to be a horse swimming off to the right. My first response was panic/worry that a horse would be out in deep water (I thought about 100ft out, although I'm awful with distances). We observed for a while, trying to work out what we were seeing, which is as follows:

A big horse's or camel's head on a thick neck sticking up out of the water with a rounded hump a little behind. The colouring looked black or very, very dark and, like a horse, there was some fuzzy, mane-like stuff sticking up and running down its back. It was moving forward, from the right of our vision to the left, fairly rapidly. We couldn't distinguish facial features or the like. After a minute or so, the head curved downwards into the water (as though diving) and a black, tube-like body followed it, as though the neck just kept going. A few seconds later a fluke-like appendage emerged and then quickly sank down, in a way that reminded me of a whale's tail going under. There was a far amount of spray and disturbed water. Whatever it was did not look like a dinosaur or plesiosaur, and was rather slimy and unpleasant looking.

If anything, these pictures look closest to what we saw:

http://nzetc.victori..._05Rail061a.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot...zcab6o1_500.jpg

http://www.hicker-fi...e-sunset_15.jpg

As you can imagine, this experience was all very confusing, and we mentioned it to the people we were staying with in Inverness, who seemed interested but didn't take it too seriously. They thought perhaps we'd seen a deer. We never reported the sighting to anyone official (heck, we'd have had no idea how to do so) and it's just been a fairly interesting anecdote we've told family and friends whenever a programme about Loch Ness popped up on TV. We had a camera with us at the time, but, stupidly in retrospect, the moment we noticed the creature and stared (both trying to work out what we were seeing) and the moment it went under the water, all happened so quickly that it didn't cross our minds that it was something possibly connected with the mystery and worth photographing. Has anyone else ever had a similar sighting? Is there a natural explanation for this horsey creature? Any thoughts or opinions are warmly welcomed.

Hello Catherine,

 

The sketches you posted are no longer accessible. Can you post them again?

Thanks,

 

Roland

 

[Eldorado]

15 minutes ago, silverity said:

Hello Catherine,

 

The sketches you posted are no longer accessible. Can you post them again?

Thanks,

 

Roland

 

Catherine last visited in 2012.

[morpheas_back]

I've seen something appearing like the loch ness monster.  I've even seen a dinosaur this was at the beach.  It liked the person i was with but didnt like me.  The loch ness monster i saw is sweet and can live in the sea aswell as lakes.  Sounds crazy doesn't it.

[Nobu]

I’ve got no reason to disbelieve your word except that “ive never seen it”. I’m not conceited enough to establish this as a reason to disbelieve you.

 

I have questions about large animals in small habitats that are surrounded by humans for hundreds of years that make me frankly “question”.... buts not in me to tell someone they didn’t see what they saw. I guess I’m just saying “thanks for the thread” ... good read.

[Saru]

@catherineross - we've had a few requests to see the sketches you posted, which are unfortunately no longer available.

If you receive this notification, would you mind reposting them ?

Thank you.