Crows pass on information to their friends

[Abramelin]

You sure it were ravens?

You said you live in the Netherlands (Brabant), and ravens are as common here as pandas in China.

Not saying you don't know the difference, but I've noticed many people do not see the (for me obvious) difference between ravens and crows.

FYI: ravens have been reintroduced here in the 60s of the past century (de "Hoge Veluwe"), but have never spread out that far and their numbers are still really small.

Raven top, crow bottom:

And ravens don't 'caw' like crows.

They 'quork', they 'gurgle' and whatever it is called in English, but they don't caw like a crow.

When flying, ravens soar a lot, crows flap their wings constantly.

Ravens have a wedge shaped tail during flight, crows have a triangular tail.

Ravens, when calling, show a 'beard', crows have nothing like that.

Ravens keep their head still or point it downwards when calling, a crow throws its head up when calling.

Ravens have a large bill, and the upper jaw has a curve with a sharp, raptor like tip.

The crow's beak is straight

Ravens are twice as large as a crow.

Ravens have pointed wings, crows have 'fingered' wings when flying.

That;s about all I can drag up from memory (right now).

.

.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Silver Thong]

I raised to magpies. They had no feathers so I didn't know what they were brought them home one in each pocket of my jacket. I showed my mom and she had no clue what to do so she called a vet and they said feed them wet dog food. So I did. They grew up were very smart and I would walk around with one on each shoulder. I could grab one throw it like a football and bam it would land right back on me. They knew I was protection so even getting close to cats or dogs did not bother them. Might have been better off if they were scared. I took them them to the park and yes got them flying and ond one day they just took off but came back every year for years.

My dad was none to happy as the shat all over his golf clubs in the basement where I lived with them. No not under the stairs.....

[The Mule]

...and no offense Abe, I know how you feel about crows. But in my yard they're way too loud too early in the morning...

[Abramelin]

...and no offense Abe, I know how you feel about crows. But in my yard they're way too loud too early in the morning...

I am not the one telling you what you should feel or not feel about crows.

But I wake up every morning (well, wake up, I sleep only a couple of hours every day) with the chatter of jackdaws. And they sound way different from any other corvid. They make sounds that would make you feel you are eavesdropping on some secret conversation.

AND often with a magpie perching on my balcony calling at the rise of the sun. I don't know why s/he choses MY balcony

But I love it.

When the magpie is there, I - still lying on my bed - make magpie calls, and the magpie always gets furious, lol.

LOL, I don't know what I am 'saying' in magpie-ish, but it must sound confronting.

.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I raised to magpies. They had no feathers so I didn't know what they were brought them home one in each pocket of my jacket. I showed my mom and she had no clue what to do so she called a vet and they said feed them wet dog food. So I did. They grew up were very smart and I would walk around with one on each shoulder. I could grab one throw it like a football and bam it would land right back on me. They knew I was protection so even getting close to cats or dogs did not bother them. Might have been better off if they were scared. I took them them to the park and yes got them flying and ond one day they just took off but came back every year for years.

My dad was none to happy as the shat all over his golf clubs in the basement where I lived with them. No not under the stairs.....

They trusted you, and they would have protected you when they thought you were being 'attacked'.

I have seen it with my jackdaws.

To be honest, I do not like cats that much. I don't hate them and won't do them any harm ever ( I actually kicked a guy in his nads when he wanted to drown a kitten) , but I just don't like them that much.

I am more of a dog and crow person.

Social, get it? Not some... nevermind.

[SpiritWriter]

I heard that crows from different parts of the world speak and understand different dialects, meaning a crow in London would not understand a crow in Seattle...

[Abramelin]

I heard that crows from different parts of the world speak and understand different dialects, meaning a crow in London would not understand a crow in Seattle...

That is true.

They have dialects, like we have, and like cetaceans have.

[Abramelin]

They trusted you, and they would have protected you when they thought you were being 'attacked'.

I have seen it with my jackdaws.

To be honest, I do not like cats that much. I don't hate them and won't do them any harm ever ( I actually kicked a guy in his nads when he wanted to drown a kitten) , but I just don't like them that much.

I am more of a dog and crow person.

Social, get it? Not some... nevermind.

But some crows have no problems with cats at all:

And now don't tell me it was just because of a crow's mother instinct.

Why do we humans have pets?

We act on instinct too?

I tend to think we do.

[SpiritWriter]

That is true.

They have dialects, like we have, and like cetaceans have.

ce·ta·cean

  [/url] /sɪˈteɪʃən/ Show Spelled[si-tey-shuhn] Show IPA

adjective

1.

belonging to the Cetacea, an order of aquatic, chiefly marine mammals, including the whales and dolphins.

[Abramelin]

What's your point?

Killer whales are known to have adopted young blue whales into their pod.

FYI: blue whales are one of the most favorite prey of killer whales.

It's like the Chinese eating dogs and keeping them as pets at the same time.

Mamy of us eat pig/pork, and some of us keep them piggies as pets.

We humans are not that superior at all.

.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Abramelin

[meryt-tetisheri]

You sure it were ravens?

You said you live in the Netherlands (Brabant), and ravens are as common here as pandas in China.

Not saying you don't know the difference, but I've noticed many people do not see the (for me obvious) difference between ravens and crows.

FYI: ravens have been reintroduced here in the 60s of the past century (de "Hoge Veluwe"), but have never spread out that far and their numbers are still really small.

Raven top, crow bottom:

And ravens don't 'caw' like crows.

They 'quork', they 'gurgle' and whatever it is called in English, but they don't caw like a crow.

When flying, ravens soar a lot, crows flap their wings constantly.

Ravens have a wedge shaped tail during flight, crows have a triangular tail.

Ravens, when calling, show a 'beard', crows have nothing like that.

Ravens keep their head still or point it downwards when calling, a crow throws its head up when calling.

Ravens have a large bill, and the upper jaw has a curve with a sharp, raptor like tip.

The crow's beak is straight

Ravens are twice as large as a crow.

Ravens have pointed wings, crows have 'fingered' wings when flying.

That;s about all I can drag up from memory (right now).

.

.

I don't live in the Netherlands, but am close to it

I admit I'm not sure now if they're crows or ravens, didn't pay close attention to details! Tomorrow in the daylight I will try to have a closer look

[Abramelin]

I don't live in the Netherlands, but am close to it

I admit I'm not sure now if they're crows or ravens, didn't pay close attention to details! Tomorrow in the daylight I will try to have a closer look

OK, I get it, you live in the other part of T....

But overthere it's the same story concerning ravens.

[meryt-tetisheri]

OK, I get it, you live in the other part of T....

But overthere it's the same story concerning ravens.

I'm mystified, went to the garden but there isn't even one in sight! This is so unusual, I've noticed that their numbers decreased this year but there are no natural predators here & no one shot at them. Mass migration or a die off (no dead birds either)?

Edited to add I think crows rather than ravens

Edited September 16, 2012 by meryt-tetisheri

[Abramelin]

I'm mystified, went to the garden but there isn't even one in sight! This is so unusual, I've noticed that their numbers decreased this year but there are no natural predators here & no one shot at them. Mass migration or a die off (no dead birds either)?

Edited to add I think crows rather than ravens

It could be far less sinister: they found another food source, and are now hanging out near that new food source.

Maybe several miles from where you live there is a large waste dump, and in recent days some trucks have dumped tons of waste food (bread, fish, whatever).

[meryt-tetisheri]

It could be far less sinister: they found another food source, and are now hanging out near that new food source.

Maybe several miles from where you live there is a large waste dump, and in recent days some trucks have dumped tons of waste food (bread, fish, whatever).

I hope so, I don't like the idea of a die-off even of noisy crows (sorry Abe ). Maybe you're right, there used to be a lot of plump turtle doves around, but their numbers have also decreased, so maybe crows moved elsewhere. We're surrounded by woods, normally providing ample food sources. There are no waste dumps nearby, only a neat 'container park', so it is possible crows moved elsewhere, hopefully giving other birds a fightining chance for breeding next spring.

[meryt-tetisheri]

The sun is starting to set, 4 or 5 crows showed up, skirted the tree tops for a while then flew away. I tried to take a picture but it's not very clear( they don't stay still)! Crows not ravens, not all dead, feeding elsewhere

[Abramelin]

I hope so, I don't like the idea of a die-off even of noisy crows (sorry Abe ). Maybe you're right, there used to be a lot of plump turtle doves around, but their numbers have also decreased, so maybe crows moved elsewhere. We're surrounded by woods, normally providing ample food sources. There are no waste dumps nearby, only a neat 'container park', so it is possible crows moved elsewhere, hopefully giving other birds a fightining chance for breeding next spring.

Lol, don't be sorry if you find them noisy. I don't even care if you don't like corvids. Domestic cats are not my favorites (and nothing to do with them catching birds), but I don't hate them or anything stupid.

I can even understand a chicken farmer (one of those who let their chickens roam free instead of cramming them into 'animal concentration camps') who shoots crows; I do not like it one bit, but what I can tell him? At least he is not shooting them for 'sport'. Shooting/killing animals for sport is deranged, if you ask me (but you didn't).

The title/topic of this thread was "Crows pass on information to their friends" and that is very probably the reason why your crows are gone: maybe they found roadkill nearby like a dead deer or whatever big animal. They will have food for weeks on end.

These guys fly many miles a day, and 'word gets around'.

======

Now something about crows hunting pigeons or doves:

Crows make a killing on Aldabra

http://www.fitzpatri...B08(5)14-15.pdf

In general, corvids are renowned for their intelligence, and

many people have shown how quickly these birds can learn

to take advantage of new food sources, often in unusual

ways. The Pied Crow Corvus albus is a common and conspicuous

resident in much of Africa and many of its associated islands.

It in particular is a classic opportunist scavenger and predator,

and has even been recorded catching birds and bats on the

wing. However, until fairly recently there were no records of it

systematically catching live birds.

When I visited Aldabra Atoll in the Seychelles, I began to find

feathers of the Aldabra Turtle Dove Streptopelia picturata copingeri

scattered around in a way that suggested foul play. I asked staff

at the research station if they knew anything about this, and

Tony Jupiter, then head ranger, told me the Pied Crows were

regularly catching doves.

From my blog (let's say this another proof they use 'tools', lol) :

I became interested in crows (ravens are hardly to be found in Holland) when I was a young child. Out of boredom during long holidays you could often find me staring out of a window or sitting on a tree branch. And that's how (at about age 9) my interest in crows began. Even at that very young age I noticed they were different somehow from the other bird species. I could always notice they were actually thinking about their next move. For instance: I once watched two crows walking alongside a wood-pigeon on a public garden that was between two parallel roads. I just KNEW they were up to something from the way the kept an eye on the pigeon. Then it happened: a fraction of a second before the next car came by, they both at the same time and from the same direction scared the pigeon with very loud cawing and jumping on him and chased him exactly in the path of the car; "Dinner's served! Mashed pigeon!"

http://kromakhy.blog...crow-court.html

.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

The sun is starting to set, 4 or 5 crows showed up, skirted the tree tops for a while then flew away. I tried to take a picture but it's not very clear( they don't stay still)! Crows not ravens, not all dead, feeding elsewhere

Blurry picture, sure, but you took the trouble to make a snapshot, upload it anyway, and post it.

Try this out if you like: put a plate outside with dog food soaked in water. You know the dry dogfood they sell in shops? They love it. soaked. Once the 'word gets around', you will see all the crows return.

Now who posted about this in this thread?

++++++

EDIT:

It was The Silver Thong. I fed my jackdaw the same food, and he loved it.

.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Abramelin

[meryt-tetisheri]

I wonder what are the 'crimes' for which crow courts pass the death sentence. The mere fact that such courts are held imply some kind of social hierarchy, a concept of social order, beside the ability to communicate and pass information. I think it's worthwhile having crows studied consistently and over a period of time, even though it would be very difficult to follow research subjects which fly away! The story of mashed pigeon is very impressive, they were aware of cause & effect and have obviously complex intelligence.

I might try using the dog food but outside my garden; there are finches, thrushes, and blackbirds which feed and nest there and I'd rather keep them!

[Abramelin]

I wonder what are the 'crimes' for which crow courts pass the death sentence. The mere fact that such courts are held imply some kind of social hierarchy, a concept of social order, beside the ability to communicate and pass information. I think it's worthwhile having crows studied consistently and over a period of time, even though it would be very difficult to follow research subjects which fly away! The story of mashed pigeon is very impressive, they were aware of cause & effect and have obviously complex intelligence.

I might try using the dog food but outside my garden; there are finches, thrushes, and blackbirds which feed and nest there and I'd rather keep them!

The only way to study them is let them get used to your presence, and not show yourself as a possible threat (so don't use a large camera with a long zoom-lens, don't carry sticks, and don't wear anything black that flaps all around you).

==

Finches, thrushes and blackbirds won't eat dog food, but the crows will, and will leave the other birds alone.

Crows are opportunists, they'll go for the easy pickings.

But yeah, when the plate is empty, and when they are still hungry, a finch is the next thing they will try to eat.

.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Abramelin

[DKO]

I live on a sort of large property in my area (1.3km2), The house is surrounded natural bushland and huge trees. And ravens are very common around here. I'm lucky to be able to watch these awesome birds (and many more) when I wake in the morning and when I get home from work. And ravens are the smartest birds i've witnessed by far.

You can see them actually figuring stuff out, another bird would just fly in, see there is no food and fly off, but a raven will look around, lift up stuff and try and get into boxes etc. And work together with other ravens.

The main reason i'm posting here is because I saw a raven doing the weirdest thing I have ever seen one do before. I arrived at my mates house and there was a raven on the lawn of the neighbours house. And it was knocking a chicken egg along the lawn! No joke. It got scared when I walked near and flew off but left the egg on the lawn. Where the hell did it get this egg from haha?

Also for the people who don't like crows/ravens because they attack other birds. In Australia, crows/ravens are bullied by a much smaller bird, The Willy Wagtail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Wagtail

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

I just dont understand I mean havent crows been on this planet for longer then mankind has, I would think you would need intelligence to last all these generations

[DKO]

I just dont understand I mean havent crows been on this planet for longer then mankind has, I would think you would need intelligence to last all these generations

Cockroaches have lasted much longer and have no intelligence.

[Mistydawn]

I'd like to see one chimp do that as fast as that rook.

Or this:

[media=]

[/media]

Does this beg questions to the size of brains? If a small bird brain can do this, does size matter?

[Abramelin]

Does this beg questions to the size of brains? If a small bird brain can do this, does size matter?

Because I linked to a post in this thread from another thread today, I only now saw your question.

I think it's not only about size but also about the number of connections between the neurons inside the brain.

Here a pic comparing the brainsize of a pigeon with that of crow: