Small Town History Posted February 18, 2014 #326 Share Posted February 18, 2014 You're welcome, Taun. (Now, I don't know why you were 'put', but I just know you better stay put and "probably" better not go anywhere! ) Well, I think that's what some 'authority' said...that it looked like the perp came in from the back of the tent. (It didn't make sense to me, anyway.) Hey, did you know that Jerry Webber- the reporter, co-authored a book called My Heartland, Oklahoma Stories? I wonder if he wrote anything about this case.... Through the front or through the back, or even cut a window in the side, would it solve the crime? Hasn't yet. Looked like? How, the front porch had undisturbed cobwebs on it, or an inch of dust on it. Silly authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 18, 2014 #327 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would dare say the authorities would tell us they have never seen a murder like this in all there lives. Up to 1977 Perhaps they should dig deeper in their files, or pay a visit to a war zone, where soldiers have been killed in there tents, or have killed others in tents in this same nightmare fashion. This is not the first. It's just unacceptable and not the norm for the Americans, we value a child's life more than this or these cold blooded killers did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 18, 2014 #328 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Is it possible that all these recorded mysterious acts that occurred before the (three untended body's) were discovered, are just red herrings to add to this mystery puzzle? What good is a mystery murder without red herrings? I have never read one, and no fiction mystery writer has ever left them out. But there's no 'fiction' to this mystery. Yes, adding red herrings is part of a mystery writers craft. I just don't see the association here, sorry. Edit: Are you saying that the tears in the tent have nothing to do with the crime? Are you saying that the murderer(s) came back to cut the tent to somehow throw off the investigators? Edited February 18, 2014 by Likely Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 18, 2014 #329 Share Posted February 18, 2014 But there's no 'fiction' to this mystery. Yes, adding red herrings is part of a mystery writers craft. I just don't see the association here, sorry. Edit: Are you saying that the tears in the tent have nothing to do with the crime? Are you saying that the murderer(s) came back to cut the tent to somehow throw off the investigators? Look up the word fiction, Someone Cry For the Children is even written in new journalism, look that up to. The murder and the book is mixed with both, fiction and non fiction. You don't see? Why was the flashlight left? Why the photo in the cave? Why body's moved? Everyone else does, that's why their chasing those red herrings? They're doing it in Colorado too. Chasing this list... Flashlight left on counter Plaque left in basement/cellar Body moved Again, fiction in GS murders, ruses, and red herrings. Even Jacob did it with fake hairy arms. Had his daddy deceived with hair. (RUSE) Someone on a mission to kill does not run an add in a donut box. Fact or fiction? And when someone is told that children under their control are going to be murdered, they take that threat serious. Ad or no ad. Fact or fiction. In answer too your not seeing statement, was there a note with the donuts, or was it a counselor/Barbara Day (RUSE)? Did you see it, the (RUSE)? That was one of the best red herrings in this whole mystery. Four in a car was another. You bet, she has every one looking for that note and those four in the car by the gate. They're puzzled still... If you don't believe it, ask the parents of the murdered children. They took it seriously, they sued. Red herring in box or not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 18, 2014 #330 Share Posted February 18, 2014 The flashlight should not have been left at the crime scene. The photo should not have even been brought into the picture. The cave is not even part of this murder. If I wrote 77-6-17 bye bye fools on a piece of paper and threw it in a cave, would that connect me to the murder and cave I threw it in? Hardly The body's should not have been moved. All the above defies logic. Hence, they are red herrings, (MISLEADS), that were used for a literary device that lead everyone to a false conclusion and a goose chase. The jury saw it in 1978. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 18, 2014 #331 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I hope everyone has a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousLittleOne Posted February 18, 2014 #332 Share Posted February 18, 2014 i read somewhere that one of the initial police photogrophers claimed the boot print was his during questioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 18, 2014 #333 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) i read somewhere that one of the initial police photogrophers claimed the boot print was his during questioning. If that's accurate, then that presents another problem with the states evidence because according to prosecutors, that boot print matched a boot print at the burgled farmhouse linked to the murders. I don't remember if a 'cave print' was addressed by prosecutors, but in a video clip recorded in 1990, a man whose son was murdered later that summer said there was a shoe print in a cave shown on a TV newscast which he believed matched the distinctive shoe soles he'd observed on a young visitor to his home. Edit: That 1990 video is in this thread on page 17, post #244. Edited February 18, 2014 by regi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 18, 2014 #334 Share Posted February 18, 2014 i read somewhere that one of the initial police photogrophers claimed the boot print was his during questioning. How i read somewhere that one of the initial police photogrophers claimed the boot print was his during questioning. How convenient! Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 19, 2014 #335 Share Posted February 19, 2014 But there's no 'fiction' to this mystery. Yes, adding red herrings is part of a mystery writers craft. I just don't see the association here, sorry. Edit: Are you saying that the tears in the tent have nothing to do with the crime? Are you saying that the murderer(s) came back to cut the tent to somehow throw off the investigators? Re: edit, tears in tents. Why would they? I'm sure some of those girls had holes in their socks, would those holes have anything to do with the crime? They wouldn't be as dramatic as a rip in a tent in a horror film, would they? The murders were after tears, right? If tears were really there, I have not seen any photos of the tears, have you? If tears = red herrings by someone? How about this, lets call them horror stage props, they just helped move the action and drama along in this murder mystery. And they even looked real to the audience. They read well, but they're harmless. But seeing the knife that ripped those tears might cause the audience to squirm a little more. Again, tears looked real to the girls, but to Barbara Day, done by the harmless wind. Now, according to Barbara Day's testimony, they are not part of this murder, because the wind caused them. So why the big fuss over the wind causing someone to have a bad hair day? Barbara Day and wind, or Killer and knife! You decide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 19, 2014 #336 Share Posted February 19, 2014 this image makes the writing look much larger , to me it looks like it would fit on my forarm It does look like it could. I've seen this type of graffiti before, it was left on a (car door) after a murder, by the murderer. Done with felt pen and left date on (car door), and even told what type of weapon was used on the victim. She died too. That killer is on the loose still. That is graffiti isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 19, 2014 #337 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Why did the killer want someone to know he or she was there? Had to fill ego with bragging? And who is he or she calling fools? Wanted to feel superior to police? The killer (singular) was here. Didn't say killers,(plural), did it? Was it written by the first person narrative, or by a Watson second narrator? If first person, there we have it, a lone killer. But if Watson wrote it, a witness or an accompolice wrote it. If a witness or accompolice wrote it, might get themselves killed? I have never seen anymore of this killers ego since 77-6-17, have any of you? The killer said BYE BYE, quess that KILLER meant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousLittleOne Posted February 19, 2014 #338 Share Posted February 19, 2014 i always took bye bye fools to be aimed at the law enforcement, 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted February 19, 2014 Author #339 Share Posted February 19, 2014 i always took bye bye fools to be aimed at the law enforcement, Me as well... Hart had been "on the run" from the sheriff for some time by then, and the cave was almost certainly one of his hideouts... Even if he had nothing to do with the murders (which I am still not convinced he was innocent of) the cave comments were still directed at the police (IMO).... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousLittleOne Posted February 19, 2014 #340 Share Posted February 19, 2014 ok , bye bye fools, could only mean: L.E FRIENDS/FAMILY WHO HAVE DOUBTED THE PERSON WRITING MESSED UP THINGS / EMOTIONAL / SOCIAL PROBLEMS IN HIS/HER HEAD surely thats all the "fools" could ever be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 19, 2014 #341 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'm sure Hart wasn't the only one with knowledge, had access to or used any of those caves! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousLittleOne Posted February 19, 2014 #342 Share Posted February 19, 2014 but i know one of the "caves" where the writing was, was not actually a cave, it was just space between two rocks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 19, 2014 #343 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) but i know one of the "caves" where the writing was, was not actually a cave, it was just space between two rocks Whatever they actually were, they're referred to as caves #1,2, and 3. There's a cave near my house and it's not easily accessed, but anyone who hasn't been to it, has heard about it. Those OSBI people didn't appear to consider that once something like that is discovered, it's no longer a secret in the community and almost every adventurous kid/young adult within earshot is bound and determined to check it out! Edit: I'd definitely like to see photographic evidence of all three of those locations inside and out! Edited February 19, 2014 by regi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted February 19, 2014 Author #344 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Whatever they actually were, they're referred to as caves #1,2, and 3. There's a cave near my house and it's not easily accessed, but anyone who hasn't been to it, has heard about it. Those OSBI people didn't appear to consider that once something like that is discovered, it's no longer a secret in the community and almost every adventurous kid/young adult within earshot is bound and determined to check it out! Edit: I'd definitely like to see photographic evidence of all three of those locations inside and out! So would I... The only photos I've seen were of the writting on the 'cave' wall... It says "77-6-17. The Killer was here. Bye Bye Fools", And another of the cigarettes that were ritually used there. Cigarette use is widespread among "Native American" shamans as a way to cleanse the spirits.... And Hart was known to use the cleansing ritual... That (In my mind) ties him to the cave more strongly than the photo of the wedding does... I would really like to visit the site and walk the grounds... But it would be hard to get permissions... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 19, 2014 #345 Share Posted February 19, 2014 And another of the cigarettes that were ritually used there. Cigarette use is widespread among "Native American" shamans as a way to cleanse the spirits.... And Hart was known to use the cleansing ritual... That (In my mind) ties him to the cave more strongly than the photo of the wedding does... Well, that was that one investigator's interpretation. I'd like to see the photographic evidence of that, too, but I still I wouldn't be convinced it could only have been Hart... I would really like to visit the site and walk the grounds... But it would be hard to get permissions... Yeah, it might be hard to get permission, so I'd probably skip it and risk gettin' shot. Seriously, I'd really like to explore all the locations... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 19, 2014 #346 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I would like to know. How can, or could, the caves, cigs, graffiti on wall, etc. things in the cave(s) connect Hart to the cave(s) or connect the cave and things in the cave(s) to this murder as well as Camp Scott. The caves do not belong to hart. Hart was never seen in those caves after the murders. Sam's shack was 30 miles away, and Hart lived there. Things found there might connect him to Camp Scott. Remember, no souvenir from the (murder tent) place of crimes, were ever found in hearts possession. Various things from other tents were found in Sam's place and near the body's. Like Carla's glasses. Bingo, those glasses puts Carla at the location of the body's if the mirror and pipe found in Sam's house, puts Hart at the scene, or ritual cigs in cave. Perhaps someone realized they were beating a dead horse with those cigs and graffiti, so they needed more planted evidence, and planted that evidence in Sam's house. Remember, they were found after the cave findings. Prosecutor's need a lot of evidence in a high profile case like this. If one piece of evidence won't work, then they will try another piece, they realized the cave was not enough, so someone planted more at Sam's home? The torpedo that sunk the prosecutor's ship was the fact that the jury could see right through the fact that the crime scene looked like something out of Hollywood, which means it was staged and planted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousLittleOne Posted February 19, 2014 #347 Share Posted February 19, 2014 from what i can recall , the flashlight had newspaper that connected that to the photos of the women that were developed from negatives given to GLH in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 19, 2014 #348 Share Posted February 19, 2014 If the world wants to blame Patsy Ramsey for killing JonBenet because her paintbrush handle was attached to the garrote found around JonBenet's neck. Then the world must blame Carla Wilhite for killing these girls, because her glasses were found next to the body's. Not because ritual cigs were found in some musty cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Town History Posted February 19, 2014 #349 Share Posted February 19, 2014 from what i can recall , the flashlight had newspaper that connected that to the photos of the women that were developed from negatives given to GLH in prison. How does a newspaper in a flashlight and a piece of it found in the cave connect them to hart? By his fingerprints not found on the flashlight? The Flashlight is nothing but a red herring 6-12-77 wonder of the world? That newspaper can be thrown in with that wonder too? Was the flashlight used in the commission of these crimes, or left for a red herring to chase? Why was a flashlight left on the Ramsey's counter? Their chasing that clue or herring still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 19, 2014 #350 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I would really like to visit the site and walk the grounds... You know, if I were to actually go there, I'd prepare to stay for more than just one day and one of those would be a business day. I'd like to browse the newspaper archives in the Tulsa and/or Pryor library- whichever has the most extensive archives, but primarily, I'd like to read the civil trial transcript. Of course, I'd need to know beforehand if/how I could have access to it, but that transcript is certainly the source of info. re: the goings-on around the camp before- and maybe even after- the murders, but including info. about the burglaries. The thing is, there were so many rumors and (I think) a lot of inaccurate reporting of all of those aspects, and so for me, that transcript contains valuable and enlightening info. and I'm actually more interested in it than I am the criminal trial transcript. Edited February 19, 2014 by regi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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