Eskimo-missing puzzle

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hello dear UMers!

Inuit writer Rachel Attituq Qitsualik:

“The Inuit cosmos is ruled by no one. There are no divine mother and father figures. There are no wind gods and solar creators. There are no eternal punishments in the hereafter, as there are no punishments for children or adults in the here and now.“

We all know legacy of Rome, China, British empire, Ottoman empire and similar great empires. We often speaks about mysteries, religion, philosophy, art, architecture, science of many civilizations,cultures, empires, states. We often connect one civilization with their trademark. For example when we think on Egyptians we first think on their architecture. Their pyramids.

I want to discuss a little about Eskimos. When I think on them I think on their architecture- Igloo (which literaly means home and which stuns me since outside temperature might be -50 C and inside Igloo 10 C). However I immediately think on Eskimo kiss (kissing with noses, kayak/qayaq, 100 words for snow (which is not true) ,qamutik or dog sldeges, their dogs, Alaskan Malmut, their merciless againts enemies but then again openminded people who would have open marriages, divorces, polygamy. I read stories how Inuits will gave their wives to guest of their house. In fact I think on more things when think on Eskimos then some other greater civilization. When I start research about Eskimos I wanted to explore idea about theiry mythology which I found interesting then I hit in few others mysteries which I will try to discuss here too. (I also didnt knew that Greenland is now part of Dermark kingdom but state on their own with cca 60 000 Eskimos)

So who are Eskimos? Eskimo is term used for group of people such as Inuit,Yupik and Aleut who lived from Siberia trough north America to Greenland. Their language is Eskimo Aleut which we divide in Aleut and Eskimo languages which we again dived in Inuit and Yupik.

Eskimo belive that animals as humans have souls. By killing animal or human is almost same. Spirit of killed person animal could hunt you down. Who know what those people think in freezing thriller when they saw aurora borealis or northern lights, some might think thats their pass away family members some thats gods, spirits, giants. Even nowdays Eskimo people told their legend , story to scare their childs that if you whistle to aurora that those lights will spilt your head. For their shamans, healers called Angakkuq lights represent many things. Angakkuq or Angakkuit were adviser of communities but not leaders. They summoned and unsommoned spirits to help people. Interesting that Angakkuq was not trained you are born this way. When Inuits went to hunt they ask their Angakkuq for asistance. When couple wants a child they ask for advice. Eskimos believe that their body have many souls. If some spirit or some shaman steal one of your souls you become sick. To get back your stolen soul you must ask help from Angakkuq. Angakkuit of Netlisk often made amulets for protection. Those healers in many group of Eskimo tatto people, like Yupik for example. Some shamans practice fortune telling the spirits who would answer with „yes“ or „no“. I will go back later to their mythology.

I often find very interesting fact that those tattoo-ed people who have good relations to animals called Yupik lived in Alaska and in Siberia in todays Russia. So when we speak who discover America we must first look to those people I guess if we again ignore other native americans. But to say that Vikings dicover it, is wrong in sense because when Vikings came they fight with Eskimos. Also what I find interesting is fact that when Venetian Marco Polo came in China he got , now already famous, Map with a boat which have drawn Alaska on it. And its known fact that Colombus was influenced by Polo. It gets even better, those people in China, Jurchens or Manchu were different from Chinese. They are Tungusic peoples. Such as Evenks,Evens, Negidals,Nani people,Oroch people,Orok people,Oroqen people,Udege people,Ulchs,Xibe. In siberia beside Siberian Tiger lives many diffrent group of peoples. Such as Ket,Evenks (which have tents like native american), Slavic, Tatars, Chukchi, Koryaks which are Chinese Indians, Lamuts-Evens, Alyutors, Yukagir , Huns, Scythians ,Turkic Uyghurs and so on. So could it be that knowledge of Americ a traveled from Yupik trough Siberian people to Manchu then to Maro Polo. I realy see why not. Even if Polos map of America isnt what it seems to be then again knowledge about America most probably traveled to China trough Siberia. Which is in a sense center of the world most the time with exception of some era. We can easy imagine how troguh trading information traveled to China trough "sleeping land" (Sib-ir on Tatar Turkic). If so Yupik is one we should look to. Personally I belive that information about America from Yupik came cross frozen tundra to China wall.

Now lets go again on other side. On America-Greenland-Europe connection. We all know that Vikings have close contact with Inuits or Skraelings and that some whale hunter will stuble upon Eskimo kayaks or Igloos but till 1940s Inuits have been isolated people. Like some todays Amazon tribes. Only their jungle was ice empire. After World war 2 and with invention of aircraft rest of the world start to explore Ice cap more often. Cold war begun and radar stations emerged as well as air bases.

What I found interesting is that after Vikings abandon Greenland in cca 1550 Eskimo meet new guests- Basque whalers. Basques established settlement in Red Bay on Labrador coast. Inuits again shown that they are hostile to outsiders by looting settlements.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/basque.html

I recently started thread about how Vikings didnt bring germs to new world and how we didnt see pandemics in north america as in south with Pizzaro and Cortes. Some members gave explaination, however some explaination are not good since Eskimo (Thule culture) came on Greenland during 13 century and there they meet Vikings once again. Maybe even Dorset culture met with Vikings who were before Thule on Greenland. Anyway, what if Eskimo and Europeans melt before?

Lets start with historical facts. Eskimos are descendants of Thule culture. According to anthroplogists because of dog sledges Thule culture spread from Siberia cca 1000 AD and pushed Dorset culture. Those Dorset culture newcomers Thule people called Tuniit. According to Eskimo those Tuniits were Giants. Those Giants or Dorset culture were active in area from 500 BC to 1902 AD. Most of Dorset culture disapear to 1400s but small group at Hudson Bay on Coats, Walrus, and Southampton islands survived. We call them Sadlermiut and their language is unknown for us. Inuit used to talk with them using pidgin. However since their culture melt with Thule possibly and genes too melted. Interesting Eskimo is once again culture that speaks about Giants. But maybe there were giants after all and not just that blond too.

Nicholas Tunes ,capptain of Dutch ship, in 1656 sailing trough Davis strait observed Inuit with their bronze skin and also tall people different then Inuits. Lutheran missionary Hans Egede wrote in 1720s that he saw blonde,white,tall people in Greenland.William Edward Parry said that some people in Canad have European look. In 1824 British navy officer John Franklin said that he spoke with Blonde Eskimo and that he had facial hair. North pole explorer Knud Rasmussen in 1903 said that he found blonde Eskimos in Greenland and parts of Canada.In 1910 Vilhjalmur Stefansson visited the Copper Inuit and stressed out that they " looked like typical Scandinavians".

From wiki:

In his book My Life with the Eskimos, Stefánsson proposed several explanations for these physical features:

-Early mixture with Norse colonists from Greenland;

-Mixture with European whalers;

-Ancient migration of European-like people from across the Bering Strait;

He rejected the second explanation because "if the mixing of races is so recent, it would appear that it should be most conspicuous farther east where the whalers had their headquarters, fading away as one goes westward. The opposite is the case".

So Tuniits were Giants. What if Tuniits were blond tall giants? How did they came there. Were they Vikings? Or maybe some people from todays Russia? Why not, If Thule crossed Bering strait why Slavic couldnt or some else Blond people from Euroasia?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Illustration from Charles Francis 1865

Edited October 2, 2012 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Sedna is godess and main characther in creation myth in Eskimo culture. Sedna was giant according to Eskimo mythology. Sedna story have many versions. In one she gets hungry and attack her parents or in one married to a dog and her dad Anguta throws her from his kayak and cuts her fingers and sinks to ocean. She becom godess of depths and her fingers whales and seals. This is one version from wiki :

Other versions of the legend depict Sedna as a beautiful maiden who rejects marriage proposals from the hunters of her village. When an unknown hunter appears, Sedna's father agrees to give her to him as wife in return for fish. Sedna's father gives Sedna a sleeping potion and gives her to the hunter who takes her to a large nest on a cliff, revealing his true form: a great raven. She wakes surrounded by birds. Her father attempts to rescue her, but her husband the bird creature becomes angry, causing a great storm. In desperation, Sedna's father throws her into the raging sea. Attempting to cling to the kayak, her hands freeze and her fingers fall off becoming the creatures of the sea. She falls to the bottom of the sea and grows a fish tail.

Sedna is kidnapped by a different bird creature in yet another version. Her father then leaves in his kayak to rescue her from the floating ice-island where she is imprisoned while the bird creature is away. The creature, enraged by her disappearance, calls to a spirit of the sea to help him. The sea spirit locates the kayak with the two humans aboard and creates huge waves to kill them. Her father throws Sedna overboard in the hope that this will appease the angry god. Sedna clings to the kayak but her father grabs a little axe and chops three of her fingers off before striking her on the head. The three fingers each become a different species of seal. The stroke to her head sends Sedna to the ocean floor where she resides, commanding the animals of the sea.

Again we have Giants from the beging.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

We have discovery of America, Blond Eskimos and Giants and it becomes better.

To be continued.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Tornits or Saumen kars are Inuit Yeti. So againt in cold snowy area we have creature that people say they saw in Tibet and China.

Here is sketch of Polo map.

[Ninhursag]

Thanks for this very interesting thread L .. I've always thought Eskimos were so fascinating and mystical.

The legend of Sedna is a very lovely one. And about the giants, well, it just goes to show that sooo many ancient cultures had some legends about them.

[emberdawn]

Very interesting, thank you for taking the time and sharing it. I got the opportunity a long time ago to experience the culture it's all good. I didn't care for the food tho.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Thanks for this very interesting thread L .. I've always thought Eskimos were so fascinating and mystical.

The legend of Sedna is a very lovely one. And about the giants, well, it just goes to show that sooo many ancient cultures had some legends about them.

Thanks Nin. Yup Giants are almost in all mythologies. But in Eskimo case not just in myths.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Very interesting, thank you for taking the time and sharing it. I got the opportunity a long time ago to experience the culture it's all good. I didn't care for the food tho.

Thanks. It was my pleasure.

Today I will watch movie Atanarjuat.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285441/

I heard that was must see movie if you are interested in eskimos.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

So Tuniits were Giants. What if Tuniits were blond tall giants? How did they came there. Were they Vikings? Or maybe some people from todays Russia? Why not, If Thule crossed Bering strait why Slavic couldnt or some else Blond people from Euroasia?

I had always believed that Siberia was the home of various northern peoples, European and Mongoloid, and that they have spread out from there. When the Yermak expidition crossed the Urals they were not simply conquering the land to the East, they were, unknowingly, returning home. Hmm, getting slightly mystical, Hyperborea is Siberia and Midgard is underneath Omsk, and there were certainly giants there

http://slavs.org.ua/...s/ivanov/07.jpg

Edited October 5, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I had always believed that Siberia was the home of various northern peoples, European and Mongoloid, and that they have spread out from there. When the Yermak expidition crossed the Urals they were not simply conquering the land to the East, they were, unknowingly, returning home. Hmm, getting slightly mystical, Hyperborea is Siberia and Midgard is underneath Omsk, and there were certainly giants there

http://slavs.org.ua/...s/ivanov/07.jpg

Hyperborea could be north of Thrace but not East North, anyway I adore those Ivanov pics? On wiki said that he is writer, are you familiar with his work?

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Hyperborea could be north of Thrace but not East North, anyway I adore those Ivanov pics? On wiki said that he is writer, are you familiar with his work?

I like to believe Hyperborea is Siberia

There are several men with name Vsevolod Ivanov.

The artist Vsevolod Ivanov was born in 1950. He is often confused with the famous Soviet writer of same name who was born in 1895. I think the confusion is because the older Ivanov, apart from writing novels about the revolution from Bolshevik perspective, had mystical ideas from his early years in Kazakhstan and Omsk.

The artist is here

http://slavs.org.ua/vsevolod-ivanov

The writer is here

http://ru.wikipedia....ович

There is an English book "The occult in Russian and Soviet Culture". The writer Ivanov has an entire chapter devoted to him. If he were still alive I think he would be on forums like this, and likely be very strong. As for his mystic writings, I mostly know him through what others have written about him, yet...

Edited October 6, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[Theresa Lee Clark]

There are to many misconceptions here to even take this conversation seriously. Please make friends with and talk to some people of the "race/races" you discuss before trying to become an authority on them. By the way I am Inupiaq.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

There are to many misconceptions here to even take this conversation seriously. Please make friends with and talk to some people of the "race/races" you discuss before trying to become an authority on them. By the way I am Inupiaq.

Such as?

Who knows maybe you will become my friend and talk with me so I could learn more about your culture. Welcome to UM!

[TheSearcher]

There are to many misconceptions here to even take this conversation seriously. Please make friends with and talk to some people of the "race/races" you discuss before trying to become an authority on them. By the way I am Inupiaq.

Well mate, we all know L to often run with an idea and just go with what he knows, although sometimes his sources are a bit sketchy, we do like him here he isn't a bad sort.

Maybe you'd want to point out some of the misconceptions and educate him (we've all done so at one time or another I'm sure, innit L?). I certainly would like to hear more from an actual Inupiaq. I do find your culture very interesting but I admit I know precious little about it other than the general things and I'm sure most of it is a misconception.

And also, welcome to UM!

[jaylemurph]

There are to many misconceptions here to even take this conversation seriously. Please make friends with and talk to some people of the "race/races" you discuss before trying to become an authority on them. By the way I am Inupiaq.

'Eskimo' isn't the favoured terms for your people, is it? I was under the impression the polite term to use was Inuit, since "eskimo" was a slur used by another First Nations group and means something like "Eater of Raw Meat."

From what I've seen recently, The L has some... solipsistic (at best) views about history and culture, and like others, that gives him the ability to ponitificate without the necessity of knowing what he's talking about. So I'm glad who does was able to come in and provide some widsom. :0)

--Jaylemurph

[Big Bad Voodoo]

From what I've seen recently, The L has some... solipsistic (at best) views about history and culture, and like others, that gives him the ability to ponitificate without the necessity of knowing what he's talking about. So I'm glad who does was able to come in and provide some widsom. :0)

--Jaylemurph

Tells a person who even doesnt knoe what history is.

History isn't a science or a rational subject. It's a study of humans and human actions.

--Jaylemurph

Jay, you seems like smart person. If you want to use word history you might first learn what does it mean and what actually history is.

Also to participate in alternative history debate you must first know what is history to spoke about alternatives.

As one said before you must first know sided of the box to talk about out of box. Which obviously you dont know.

Well, allow me to educate you. History is science.

And if you ever want developed lecture I will be here to help you about it.

Dont take this as insult.

[TheSearcher]

Tells a person who even doesnt knoe what history is.

Jay, you seems like smart person. If you want to use word history you might first learn what does it mean and what actually history is.

Also to participate in alternative history debate you must first know what is history to spoke about alternatives.

As one said before you must first know sided of the box to talk about out of box. Which obviously you dont know.

Well, allow me to educate you. History is science.

And if you ever want developed lecture I will be here to help you about it.

Dont take this as insult.

L, to be honest Jayle has shown more insight and knowledge about science and history than most people here, including you and me both, so that was uncalled for and rather a silly comment to make.

And don't take this as an insult, but your sourcing often is sometimes rather sketchy and you do tend to go on and on about things, even though enough people try to tell you what's BS and what's not, or as you so delightfully put it, to "educate" you.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Well mate, we all know L to often run with an idea and just go with what he knows, although sometimes his sources are a bit sketchy, we do like him here he isn't a bad sort.

Maybe you'd want to point out some of the misconceptions and educate him (we've all done so at one time or another I'm sure, innit L?). I certainly would like to hear more from an actual Inupiaq. I do find your culture very interesting but I admit I know precious little about it other than the general things and I'm sure most of it is a misconception.

I doubt that Theresa Lee Clark will ever show up because obviously she realized that there is no misconceptions here.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

L, to be honest Jayle has shown more insight and knowledge about science and in particular history than most people here, including you and me both, so that was uncalled for and rather a silly comment to make.

And don't take this as an insult, but your sourcing often is sometimes rather sketchy and you do tend to go on and on about things, even though enough people try to tell you what's BS and what's not, or as you so delightfully put it, to "educate" you.

There you go. I correct your post.

To be honest with you Searcher, Jayle doesnt know what he is talking about. His insights and knowledge about science and history (lol) migth be greater then mine. Which I doubt.

I dont know what of my sourcing you find sketchy. You never asked. Maybe you are affraid to see truth. If you do I would proove you different. Or admiting I was wrong.

Also no offence but I realy dont know who are those people who tells me what BS and whats not.

Yes I delightfully put it word "educate." Because its obvious that Jay need lecture about whats history. Because he doesnt know it. And if you knew better ( not an insult,just a recognition ) you would click like button on my post and keep your mouth shut in respect to your mate. But thats virtue. To protect yours mate back even if he is utterly wrong.

Please read again yours mate post then stop and think for a second:

History isn't a science or a rational subject.

Allow me to be one who will tell you whats BS and what isnt.

This Jay line is bunch of BS. And sure isnt rational.

And if you agree with it thats goes for you aswell.

And someone mention wisdom here...

If I was malicious I would used it as redicule signature. Because it is one of the greatest loony/fringe hypothesis I heard.

Although I like to discuss fringe theories a lot.

Edited February 7, 2013 by the L

[TheSearcher]

Well L, lets agree to disagree, because you telling me to shut my mouth and like your post, when I obviously disagree with your post and the rather arrogant way you just answered, just cost you a lot of respect in my book.

[redhen]

There's nothing romantic about these stunted, stone age societies.

According to census data for Canadian Inuit populations from 1900 to 1932, the ratio was heavily skewed, with 173 boys per 100 girls (Smith&Smith,1994). Early explorers reported female infanticide as customary, with one expedition in 1931 reporting a female infanticide rate of 66 percent (Smith&Smith,1994). This practice is no longer evidenced, and anthropologists have surmised that the Inuit practice of female infanticide subsided as western technology and industry replaced traditional hunting.

Smith, E., Smith,S. (1994) Inuit Sex-Ratio Variation

Current Anthropology 35: 595-624

[wolfknight]

Thank you for sharing a great story on the Eskimo. I found it a very interresting read,

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I apologized Searcher because my post look arogant. You know how much I respect you and how much I like reading your posts. Well maybe you dont know but I do. Some of your posts I soaked. You are smart and clever. Well of knowledge. But you protecting a man who is obviously utterly wrong. Nothing wrong being wrong.

Its process of learning. But Jay show low qualities. He attacks me on personal level. Several times. He dont attack arguments. He fight people. Obviously thats because his lack of knowledge. No matter who you see him. Jay maybe know some parts of history but Jay simply doesnt know what history is.

Jay gives lectures about history yet this guy doesnt even know what history is. Isnt that irony? But hey I knew how is to be wrong. Im often wrong. And when someone prooves me that Im wrong I admit it. You spoke how my sources are sketchy. Well I asked you to show me? Yet you didnt.

I didnt said you that you keep yours mouth shut in general conversation. Im usualy that guy. Who reads you. But in this case, you should know that history is science and that Im here right. So instead protecting your mate you should know better and do what any objective person would do.

He is utterly wrong. And he is arogant. And anyone who is on his side deserves same as he. Which is hard core facts. Sorry again if you find this disturbing in anyway. And yes I agree we dont agree. But may I ask you what do you think science is? What do you think history is? If not science.

Im humble,calm person. I act like student. In fact recently I become student. And if Jay wants to learn something he must act like student too. If he wants to be lecturer then he must be able to defend his view and answer on all students questions.

Edit: Im confident. Maybe you replace that for arogance. Maybe my negative vibe toward Jay gone unrightously to you.

Edited February 7, 2013 by the L